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Reflecting on BW and Looking Ahead to Gen VI - SEE POST #508

Discussion in 'BW OU' started by Huntofthelion, Jan 8, 2013.

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  1. Huntofthelion

    Huntofthelion Live for the nights you can't remember
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    Approved by Birkal and Harsha


    So for those of you who haven't heard the next generation of Pokemon fun has been announced. About 10 months from now we will have an entirely new game on our hands that will change the landscape of competitive Pokemon in drastic ways, just like every generation transition has done before. So with all those changes in store this thread will serve as a place to talk about what you want from the next generation in order to make the game better. Basically, what would you like to see in the next generation that would help create an ideal metagame based on what we already have?

    For example I know a lot of users agree with me when I say that gen 6 would be really cool if it could add mostly defensive threats in order to balance out the trend the last few gens have had of making the game more and more offensive. So some possible things to discuss in that vein would be what types of defensive concepts would you like to see or what typing would be good for a defensive Pokemon to help check major threats we currently have. Stuff like that is what should be discussed.

    Please keep this thread strictly competitive, as non competitive discussion belongs in the Orange Islands Thread and also make sure your posts are intelligent and thought out and not just one liners of "yo hook me up with dat ice version of sr that would be so dope yoooo."
  2. Arcticblast

    Arcticblast Flapper the Zubat = best scramblemon
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    Free Gen VI Garchomp

    One thing many people (myself included) would like to see in the new generation is a Ghost/Steel with Levitate. Having a spinblocker with very few weaknesses would be absolutely incredible as long as it has the bulk to back it up.
  3. Vemane

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    But... but what about emerald remake? :(

    And shit... a new metagame -_-

    Anywho, I feel as if simply adding defensive threats is not enough to bring back stall's viability, because I feel like what really crushed it isn't strong pokemon, rather strong abilities and traits (regenerator, magic guard, prankster, etc.)

    I would like to see a plethora of unique typings handed out. I feel like a fun thing for gen 6 to play around with would be interesting, unique, and practical typings that would be great for both defensive and offensive pokes alike, and can help to fill in niches to balance things out.

    Possibly a weather cancelling ability.
  4. Harsha

    Harsha Rest In Beats
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    I am betting that Gen VI will bring a lot of new offensive Pokemon, and I have a feeling that the OU metagame will be even harder to play due to the simple sheer abundance of usable threats. It's already a problem here in Gen V, and I'm positive that the trend of introducing a boatload of offensive Pokemon will just continue. I do hope that we see some new Rapid Spin users because currently Starmie, Tentacruel, and Forretress are the most viable options, and I'm tired of running Starmie, while Tentacruel is mostly for rain, and Forretress is pretty bad in this metagame dominated by special threats. A new load of defensive Pokemon would be cool, but I don't foresee more than like three viable walls (which seems like the number added every new Gen).

    I think it's cool that BW introduced some new Pokemon, but in my opinion the biggest switch it made was the introduction of Team Preview. I don't know if Gen VI would bring a change that drastic, but I guess we'll have to wait and see!
  5. Huntofthelion

    Huntofthelion Live for the nights you can't remember
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    Those are good points, although I'd argue that those abilities have been able to and could further help stall if given to the right Pokemon. Regenerator or magic guard on a usable rapid spinner perhaps could help a bit. To add to Arctivblast's point a spin blocker with regenerator might be really helpful for defensive teams as most ghosts are pretty easy to wear down at present.
  6. kd24

    kd24 yo daddy musta been a drug dealer? why, cuz you're dope
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    well gen 5 was awful overall in my opinion and hopefully gen 6 improves on it. i think a lot of my problems with gen 5 stem from the fact that there were so many broken threats and it took forever to deal with all of them, not to mention there were unhealthy mons who weren't broken (ie ferrothorn, who would probably be on 60% of "top" teams on ou ladder if we had those statistics). i mean just look back at everything that got tested and eventually banned through the era of gen 5.

    in gen 6, maybe we should consider a more improved initial ban list from the start? im not a huge fan of theorymon but it's pretty easy to spot huge problem cases (excadrill was clearly broken from the start of gen 5, but it really took a while for that ban to catch momentum).

    and maybe we might just get a situation similar to rs 200 where they decide to make more money and not give out every mon right away (this will be 3ds exclusive at least).
  7. Gary2346

    Gary2346 A filthy casual
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    YES! The current spin blockers in this meta as of now I either too frail or just don't seem to have any other solid reasons to use them other then to spin block. Cofagrigus, Sableye, Spiritomb, and Jellicent seem to be the only really decent choices for a spin blocker, as they also support the team. Sableye has an amazing ability in Prankster to keep Rapid Spinners from crippling Sableye with Toxic since he has one of the fastest Taunts in the game, and he can also Trick the Spinner a Choice item and or cripple them with Burn. Cofagrigus can set up on Rapid Spinners if it runs an offensive set, or it can stall it out. Spiritomb is a great balance of an offensive and defensive spinner that is really hard to handle, although he's not that good in OU though. Jellicent is my personal favorite since it has access to Recover and isn't scared of Starmie unless it's running T-Bolt. Being specially bulk gives it the ability to counter Rain and sun as well. More blockers like Jellicent would be nice. Gengar, Frosslass, and Chandelure deserve honorable mentions here, although they are too frail and most spinners don't mind them, even Hitmontop. Frosslass also has some bad defensive typing as well, and won't last long without constant spinner support herself. Dusclops is just....ugg. Sure he can burn with Will-O-Wisp, but that's about it. He has a terrible move pool and gives many opportunities for something to come in a set up on him. AKA, he's pretty much a super bulky spin blocker that is pure Taunt and set up bait.

    I also agree with Huntofthelion. The current OU meta game is just so offensive that if another round of super offensive Pokemon join the meta game, hyper offense would be one of the only viable play styles. OU needs defense, badly. More Defensive walls, more special walls, more bulky spinners, more supporting Pokes, and possibly more defensive hazard setters. However, fuck Deoxys-D. Just wanted to say that. Anyways, I feel that this meta needs just much more support, as it's very hard to pull together a bulky offense team when most of the defensive threats are easily checked by a lot of things. Most of all though, NO MORE AUTO WEATHER POKEMON! I would be okay with another Auto Hail guy since Abomasnow is kind of meh in OU and Hail is kind of meh in general compared to Rain, Sun and Sand, but seriously no more Auto Rain, Sun, and even Sand. Toad, Tails, T-Tar, and Hippowdon are all we need. One of my other biggest hopes that game freak hopefully brings, are more weather counters. Giving a Pokemon the ability to shutdown Weather without having to put up another weather would be nice. Maybe a move that shuts down weather for a certain amount of turns? Or maybe Pokemon with the ability Cloud Nine that are actually useful in OU, and maybe even giving a Pokemon an OU viable Pokemon Air Lock like Rayquaza so weather less teams aren't always crippled by weather the entire match even when the weather inducer is fainted. That would be amazing, and it would definitely keep the meta game much healthier. It would keep Weather from becoming too over centralizing like it is now, and most with these weather counters implemented Weather usage would most likely drop.
  8. Himanattsu

    Himanattsu

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    Couldn't agree more--we're stuck in this situation even now, with Tornadus T! And, it also took us a while to unban Cube.
  9. kd24

    kd24 yo daddy musta been a drug dealer? why, cuz you're dope
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    jellicent...?
  10. alexwolf

    alexwolf King of Conquerors
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    I would really like to see two things in the new generation... The first is the buff of some relatively bad types and strategies in general. Hail for example could really use some extra effects in except from the extra damage to non ice-types and the 100% accurate blizzard. In the same vein Ice-types in general, could really use some SR neutral Pokemon with strong offensive presence (offensive Ice-Fighting Pokemon anyone?), or with awesome abilities (Regenerator and Magic Guard come to mind).

    The second thing i would like to see are new dual typings and/or abilities coupled with typings to combat the unresisted type combos that offensive Pokemon use and make them nearly unwallable. Take Terrakion for example! Why is it almost uncounterable? Becuase it has a killer Atk stat and Dual STABs that no Pokemon in OU resists. Wouldn't it be nice to have a viable Ghost-Steel with Levitate, or a Ground-Poison with good stats (Nidos don't count) or even a Ghost-Fighting mon? Similarly we could really use more Pokemon to check the almighty dragon-types that keep getting better and better. An example would be another Steel-Flying Pokemon except from Skarmory, with a good ability possibly (Filter) which is an awesome typing in general, or Water-Steel types, to help combat Pokemon such as the Lati@s, or even Ghost-Steel types to help against the best wallbreaker in the tier atm, Hydreigon.
  11. Vemane

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    Um... actually, those are the worst of the ou-viable blockers...

    Jellicent, Gengar, Hell even chandy work better
  12. Gary2346

    Gary2346 A filthy casual
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    *facepalm* Added it. Can't believe I forgot the best spin blocker in the game....

    Should have clarified better I apologize. I meant defensive more supportive spin blockers not offensive. I added Jellicent though. And yes I did mention that Spiritomb wasn't OU viable, and neither Cofagrigus. Like I said, bulky spin blockers not offensive.
  13. Lord of Bays

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    I would LOVE a move that removed weather altogether. Rain Dance Kingdra is fantastic and all, but I'd love to use DD Salamence more, who really shines outside of weather, in my opinion.
  14. TheFourthChaser

    TheFourthChaser #TimeForChange
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    This was not a problem from our initial banlist, both of the problems you just mentioned were creations of BW2. Kyurem-B really should not have been unbanned and Tornadus-T(or Drizzle or whatev you support) should've been tested first. BW1's final meta was actually alright, maybe only relatively I can't tell.

    I mostly agree with what kd is saying. Although I supported a "no ban" beginning I had thought things would have gone a lot more smoothly and for next generation I can't say I want to start the metagame with Darkrai running around. No one can really say what they'd like the starting banlist to be like but I don't think I want it as free as it was a few years ago.

    My hopes for XY are probably the normal among those who think, I'd like a GSC-like addition. Give me the new Blissey, the new Skarmory. A bunch of strong bulk to get us back to a more balanced metagame. Sure there must be new offensive mons but it would be nice to keep it tame, fuck another dragon lets get something cool like Tyranitar or Heracross. Removal of the sleep buff and the Payback nerf would also be great(boom nerf is good idc what you're gonna say to that).

    #TimeForChange
  15. Dusk209

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    Here's my personal wishlist for XY and it's metagame (lol none of this will happen):
    - Change Individual Values so that they ONLY affect Hidden Power. Less rng abuse pls.
    - Less focus on weather, nerf it a bit
    - More move/ability love for sub-par pokemon (Weavile, Entei, Sableye, Charizard, Milotic, etc)
    - New evos of interesting but outclassed pokemon
    - Normal types that don't suck
    - New type made to counter some of the more powerful types (flying, fighting, dragon, water) but gets fucked up by poison-types
  16. LionKingMax

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    I hope to see either more Drizzle/Drought/Snowstorm alternatives and/or more pokes with the Air Lock/ Cloud Nine ability that are actually competitively able to do work.

    I know a lot of people dislike weather (I'm one of them) but we all know that it's too late to do something about it, so might as well embrace it. Maybe adding even more kind of weathers would be beneficial in the long run (Fog, electrified atmosphere, dark night or something, etc.) I'd give a lot to see rain thrown out of it's throne.

    New items would be fun to see too. The choice items from Gen 4 changed the metagame hard, and I'd like to see similar items make their appearances. Some form of Lifeorb Choice items maybe?

    I have high hopes for the gen 6.
  17. Charro

    Charro

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    Funny, I love BW and hate the meta, and I hate DPPt and love the meta

    I hope they nerf weather or something, making it last 10 turns at best would be good enough to make more mons viable. Yes, rain is countereable and shit, but it's simply not fun to fight against weather teams 9 out of 10 times, without mentioning that the only reason rain is not broken is because we restricted swift swim. If they make Drizzle work like an extended Rain Dance, it will add more dynamic to the game, forcing you to switch in Politoed a couple of times against weatherless teams instead of just once, and then not caring about it for the rest of the match (unless they change it manually).
  18. blitzlefan

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    As far as the metagame goes, I don't think that adding new weathers will do much, as even with superpowered weathers, like idk thunderstorm = electric attacks 2x, there won't be enough abusers, and even then, the abusers would end up banned or the new weather would just be another rain. Generations 1-4 were less weather oriented ('cept for some sandstorm in Gen 4) and then gen 5 came and boosted weather, especially rain, to unbearable amounts. Personally, I'd just like a big fat nerf to weather, (maybe 1.25x instead of 1.5 for the Water/Fire boosts?) and add more pokes with Air Lock and Cloud Nine, possibly upgrading them so they clear the weather permanently.
  19. Princess Bubblegum

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    To be honest we don't have that many half bad defensive types around, the problem is 90% of them are pretty terrible because they don't have a recovery move. If slack off / regenerator / recover /wish heck even moonlight and synthesis came in better distribution a lot of things could get their counters from lower tiers like camerupt, lanturn, and nindoqueen, and they could actually be useful. Heck if rest worked the same way it did last generation and earlier instead of resetting every time you switch, even Dusclops could see more use.
  20. alkinesthetase

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    besides fixing that bloody stupid sleep mechanic (which really didn't benefit anyone - offensive sleep users become even more ridiculous and bulky restalkers are no longer viable), i'm just hoping gen VI brings with it an influx of defensive pokemon. bw2 was not the only thing in this generation to bring in stupid mons - BW1 terrakion was pretty ridiculous as well, etc. you can talk about the viability of stall but ultimately the more offensive pokes you add to the game, the harder it becomes to stall. it's come to a head in BW2 but the signs were there before us; i'm hoping the trend doesn't continue.

    in practice things are probably gonna turn out like harsha said - more offensive mons, even more offensive mons, maybe like 3 good defensive mons (again speaking from an OU perspective) and we're just gonna be even more overwhelmed. oh well, we can dream

    EDIT: and i would like my lightningrod zapdos please
  21. Nova

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    I would really like to see some buffs to help Stall teams become more relevant such as a Steel/Dragon type in a similar vein as Dialga and what TFC mentioned in a new Skarmory and a new Blissey. Also would like to see some abilities to help defensive Pokemon such as a Special version of Intimidate and more Pokemon getting Regenerator. I also hope Generation VI brings along more Rapid Spinners and spinblockers. The only viable spinners in OU right now are Starmie, Tentacruel, Forretress, and Donphan and it gets quite stale as the former 2 are really only viable on Rain teams while the latter 2 don't do much other than set up hazards and spin. What has been even more depressing is the lack of spinblockers which has caused Jellicent and Sableye to be basically the only viable spinblockers and both of them are easily taken out. I really hope Gen VI brings along a bulky Ghost type that can reliably spinblock.


    yes, I would also like Hurricane Zapdos please
  22. Qwertyaaaaaa

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    Am I the only one liking the trend of an offensive OU metgame and wants it to continue up until like...the seventh or eighth gen?

    Anyway, I hope they get rid of dream world abilities so permanent rain and sun can stay where it belongs: in ubers. It seems weird that I support this given that I like the offense trend but I feel like weather limits variety in a way. People are saying that Infernape sucks in OU because of rain alone. You also have to have a venusaur check if you're playing non-weather, etc. If you do play weatehr there's the constant worry of keeping your own weather up looming over your head. It's just annoying and IMO weather makes the metagame a mess.
  23. Meleeace1478

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    Since this is just a wishlist, the main things I want are a nerf to Stealth Rock and for the broken abilities to actually be only given to bad pokemon. Magic Guard should not be given to a poke with some of the highest Sp Att and Spd in the game.

    The ability to actually play stall would be nice also. And getting rid of team preview so I can use Azelf as my lead again.
  24. Qwertyaaaaaa

    Qwertyaaaaaa

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    Yes. Please get rid of team preview. So many formerly good leads suck now because of it and the only one still viable for the role of a traditional lead is Deoxys-D.

    I also jizz at the thought of having a fast offensive Ice/Fighting type. It would be pretty awesome to have another competitively viable ice type that isn't Mamoswine. Ice/Fighting would be so damn good as a dual STAB. Super effective STAB on 9 out 17 types. Fucking sweet.
  25. blitzlefan

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    But with a hyper offensive metagame, which is in no regards bad per say, you have to wonder about the power creep. Compared to 1st gen, most people would have to agree that 5th gen is incredibly overpowered, and with an increase in offensive power, more and more of the older pokes will be pushed further and further back, and the defensive ones will to. (eg Porgyon-Z, Swampert, etc. for offensive and Bronzong, Chansey etc. for defensive). With more defensive threats introduced, the metagame will become more diverse in playstyles as well as a LOT more balanced. (a base 170 Atk stat in OU is a little ridiculous). I really miss stall as a playstyle. Hoping for an even stronger Skarm/Bliss combo (I WANT MORE EVOLUTIONS!)
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