Research Group #1 - Zweilous, Torterra, Eelektross

[TLCJR4LIFE]

CBB's Choice Band Eel is very impressive. It's decent bulk, great ability in Levitate and the ability to manufacture huge momentum with U-Turn is phenomenal.


Currently I'm using Aqua Tail rather than Superpower but the two are pretty much interchangeable. Watch for Aqua Tail's less than perfect accuracy though.

The best thing about Eel is I've found it even makes an impressive lead if you want to immediately capture momentum and you see a glaring weakness in your opponents team.

 

[CrashinBoomBang]

So since I finally peaked at 1350 with Eelektross, I figured I'll now make my trademark long post because it is a really powerful pokemon that deserves more recognition.

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First I'll talk about Eelektross itself. While there are certainly stronger and more effective electric-type sweepers out there, none of them enjoys the luxury of no weaknesses and only Rotom-S is immune to Ground moves. It also has decent bulk and can, thanks to its good offensive stats on both sides of the spectrum supported by a diverse movepool, run many different different sets, making it unpredictable. The new Black 2/White 2 move tutors really helped it in that regard by gifting it with moves such as Superpower, Thunderpunch, Fire Punch and Aqua Tail on the physical side, as well as Giga Drain on the special side.

I personally opted for a Choice Band set to try out the aforementioned moves it got without losing health, and was glad to see it work out as well as it did. Choice Band Eelektross can be either a very hard hitter or a really good scout depending on the situation; its lack of weaknesses and immunity to both Spikes/TSpikes while only being neutrally affected by Stealth Rock only help it in its latter role. I used a set consisting of Thunderpunch/U-turn/Fire Punch/Superpower because of the way my team was structured: If a Ground-type Pokemon came in I preferred to U-turn out to either Samurott or Exeggutor instead of trying to snipe it with Aqua Tail. Superpower also hits Lickilicky and some other notable Pokemon extremely hard (Bastiodon doesn't really care too much about Aqua Tail and can stall me with Toxic + Protect for example), which was really important for my team.

Anyway, enough about the Eel in general, this is the team I used for laddering:

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Rotom-S @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Volt Switch
- Thunderbolt
- Air Slash
- Trick


Eelektross (M) @ Choice Band
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 160 HP / 252 Atk / 96 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- ThunderPunch
- U-turn
- Superpower
- Fire Punch


Samurott (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Torrent
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Grass Knot
- Aqua Jet


Zangoose (F) @ Toxic Orb
Trait: Toxic Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Facade
- Close Combat
- Night Slash
- Quick Attack


Swellow (M) @ Toxic Orb
Trait: Guts
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Facade
- Brave Bird
- U-turn
- Quick Attack


Exeggutor (F) @ Choice Specs
Trait: Chlorophyll
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Leaf Storm
- Psychic
- Hidden Power [Ground]
- Psyshock

As for Eelektross' role on this particular team, it's mostly sent out early game to win momentum which can then be used to activate either of my Guts users' Toxic Orb or get in Samurott/Exeggutor safely to start wearing down the opposing team. While that is its main role, it also serves as an effective switch-in for electric attacks from the likes of Zebstrika, hostile Eelektross and Rotom-S. Furthermore, it can tank a hit from Cinccino and seriously hurt it with any of its moves; of course, that doesn't count solely for Cinccino but also for Pokemon such as Absol, since Eelektross tanks everything except for boosted attacks comfortably and OHKO's with 3/4 moves.

The team itself plays really simple. The goal is to get momentum by abusing Rotom-S' Volt Switch and Eelektross' U-turn to get either Zangoose or Swellow in, which activates their Toxic Orbs. If they have an unfavorable matchup (i.e. Golem), then Samurott or Exeggutor should serve as primary switch-ins until all the threats are neutered and either Zangoose or Swellow has a clean shot at sweeping.

I don't feel like going too much into detail for this post because it's a really simple team to use, so there really shouldn't be too many issues (like with the Articuno team which required lots of planning ahead). I mainly posted here to get out my opinion on Eelektross, but if there's a question concerning the team I'll gladly answer it.

 

[nyttyn]

challenge accepted

Zwelious Tank
Zweilous @ Eviolite
Trait: Hustle
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpDef
Impish Nature (+Def, -SpAtk)
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Thunder Wave
- Dragon Tail / Roar

Cripple things with Thunder Wave, force them out with Dragon Tail, repeat process. Heal with Rest, use sleep talk so you aren't a sitting duck while you're taking a snooze. Natural bulk + good typing mean that this little dragon can do its job well. Physically defensive EVs because jesus this tier has so many physical attackers. Watch out for fightin moves. A very great parashuffler for teams who struggle with speed / like having a status bot. Roar can work but TAUNT WEAK Have had great success with this. Hustle can ruin your day kind of sometimes though, so roar may be preferable. Works well as a status platform. Once managed to paralyze a entire team, fun times.


Elektross the Status Screening Setup EXTRAVAGAANNZZAAA
Elektross @ Leftovers
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpDef / 4 Def
Careful Nature (+SpDef, -SpAtk)
- Light Screen / Thunder Punch
- Coil
- Drain Punch / Thunder Punch
- Thunder Wave

This is a highly unusual, yet highly effective set. The general idea is that Light Screen and the Special Defense EVs will be sufficient for you to take spcial hits, thus leaving you open to boost your physical attack and defense with Coil, at which point you can start drain punching and thuner punching with free reign. Thunder Wave ties in well as since you're so goddamn immortal the opponent will have to spend many turns trying to take you down, leading to frustration when you stop their boosting attempts / attempts to stop you with a well timed paralyze.

 

[diinbong]

I've been using Adamant Choice Band Zweilous with Outrage / Crunch/ Superpower / Aqua Tail for a while and I've found it to be a very effective Pokemon. If your opponent doesn't have a Steel-type, they will have extreme problems trying to switch something in. I used it alongside Dragon Dance Fraxure as a double-Dragon type of combo. I would use it again. It was annoying when my attacks missed but besides that it could break holes in teams quite reliably. Its Dark typing gives it a few opportunities to switch in on Psychics, but it was mostly coming in as revenge or on walls who feared it. I can't imagine using either of the sets onsite (Tank with Eviolite and Choice Scarf), or any item besides Choice Band for that matter, because I would miss the power way too much.

 

[Annoyer]

I just checked Eelektross's moves on smogon and it doesn't get Reflect so I have no clue how you tested it. Ampharos obviously outclasses it at dual screening because Eelektross can't dual screen. Also, I think Zweilous should run a specially defensively spread since its resistances are far better for specially defensively purposes such as taking special Fire, Water, Electric, Grass, Psychic, Ghost, and Dark type moves which are mostly special bar Dark.

 

[nyttyn]

I just checked Eelektross's moves on smogon and it doesn't get Reflect so I have no clue how you tested it.

Odd. I think I have mistaken elektross for something else. Changing set with another one I know of and have used. Thanks for the heads up.

Ampharos obviously outclasses it at dual screening because Eelektross can't dual screen.

Agreed in any case.

Also, I think Zweilous should run a specially defensively spread since its resistances are far better for specially defensively purposes such as taking special Fire, Water, Electric, Grass, Psychic, Ghost, and Dark type moves which are mostly special bar Dark.

Disagreed. It resists those hits already, so it makes more sense to shore up its physical defense as it does not resist common physical types such as normal. Also physical attackers so common, not so many special attackers. Also he's immune to psychic attacks.

 

[DTC]

Eelektross is the best scout in NU. Both CB and Specs are fantastic at scouting and also good at wall-breaking. I think Specs is better at wall-breaking because it has a stronger STAB and arguably better, stronger coverage while CB is better at scouting because U-turn is much easier to spam. It's nice that Eelektross has enough bulk to not get OHKO'd by anything other than extremely strong attacks. The lack of resistances is really annoying however, and most games I find it getting 3HKO'd which is annoying for a slow Pokemon that can't heal (other than Giga Drain on the Specs set).

I also have to disagree that Zweilous is bad. Yeah, every attacking move having the accuracy of Stone Edge or less is really annoying, but when you hit the opposing Pokemon, you'll do a ton of damage to them. I like Eviolite more for its ability to switch into various attacks easily and it's still quite strong, but CB can straight up just 2HKO Pokemon such as Alomomola. Zweilous is great if you're willing to take the risk of missing.

 

[Annoyer]

After doing a buttload of calcs, here's what I came up with. Physically defensive Zweilous can wall non-SD Torterra, Golem, Tauros, Cacturne, non-SD Sawsbuck, Floatzel, non-Taunt Skuntank, Fearow, Cinccino, and SD Lickilicky (only with Roar).

Specially defensive Zweilous can wall Choice Specs Exeggutor, Eelektross, Musharna + most Psychic types not Gardevoir, Serperior, LO Samurott, Ampharos + other specially offensive Electric types, NP Persian, Rotom-S, Swanna, Seismitoad, Camerupt, SS Magcargo, non-CM Golduck, Shiftry, Ludicolo, and Charizard.

I understand that I've probably missed many Pokemon on both sides. Since either Zweilous can wall a number of Pokemon, the defensive spread on Zweilous should be determined on what your team needs the most. I've also noticed that through these calcs, Zweilous can wall a large amount of Pokemon commonly found on weather teams and then proceed to cripple them through paralysis.

252 +2 SpAtk Life Orb Gorebyss Ice Beam vs 252 HP/252 SpDef Eviolite Zweilous (+SpDef) : 85.06% - 100%
6.25% chance to OHKO

 

[CrashinBoomBang]

Yeah, I agree with most things DTC said, most of the common walls such as Tangela, Amoonguss and Alomomola being physically defensive doesn't help Choice Band Eelektross' cause. I really like a solid, damaging U-turn as well as the ability to almost OHKO Lickilicky though, so I think I personally prefer Choice Band.

I'm not sure about Eviolite Zweilous since I never played with or against it, but Choice Band Zweilous is a monster, especially with all the new toys it got through move tutors. Missing can be annoying, and I personally stopped using it because of that (and the lack of Dragon Claw), but it really rips holes into defensive teams where most Pokemon are unable to sufficiently hurt it before dying.

 

[Elegy96]

Is it too late to try this? If not:

Username: Carpet Manny
Pokemon: Elektross

I think I'll try and go for a thunder wave set. Expect me to try it out a bit later this evening.

 

[DTC]

Research Group is ending in about 2 days (maybe more depending on what happens with the PS ladder). I still haven't decided any of the winners for any of the categories so discuss more on IRC and here.

Also, what do you guys want in the next Research Group more - Exeggutor or Sawsbuck? VM me your answer.

 

[Shovel]

Torterra (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Overgrow
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Wood Hammer
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Synthesis

I'm late to the party, of course :L But anyway, I tried the set with said Swords Dance rather than Synthesis, which isn't exactly original, but it is very effective. I believe it reaches 696 attack, correct me if I'm wrong. I also ran Bullet Seed over Wood Hammer, which is weird, but not too bad to use against Sturdy users. The drop in power is very much noticed, and when I dont really care about Sturdy, Wood Hammer is the obvious better choice. It seems to me that Golem is more common on PO than Showdown anyway.

I found that Probopass is a very nice partner, for the fact that Probopass with 252hp/252Spdef with +SpDef nature can easily take Ice Beams and Sponge Fire hits, while pretty much walling Choice-Locked birds, and Swellow in general. Probopass can also set up rocks, which bonuses for some guaranteed OHKOs for Torterra. And they both work nicely with the previously aforementioned Eelektross's ability to levitate, and dodge earthquakes and ohko opposing flying type foes (which Probopass generally cant do).

A lot of times I run into teams that tend to take Torterra easily, being that Hidden Power Ice has grown to be arguably the most used Hidden Power. So, I tried Yache Berry once (I dunno if that's released, but I'm fairly certain it is), and it only worked a few times, before I noticed it wasn't really worth it. Though Torterra has decent bulk, with 95/105/85 across the tables, no investment in SpDef leaves it too vulnerable to even think about using that berry. And anyway, Life Orb boosts it's attacking prowess by 30% or whatever, and after a Swords Dance that is nothing to scoff at.

All in all, Torterra is highly underrated, and I think I'll be using it on future teams.


Something I tried once. The results were that I was lame:

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Torterra (M) @ Yache Berry/Leftovers
Trait: Overgrow
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpDef
Careful Nature (+SpDef, -SAtk)
- Protect
- Substitute
- Toxic
- Leech Seed

Highly taunt bait, but who would think to taunt it (unless it leads)? Anyway, it yielded bad results, and only worked on newer players. And maybe twice more on others because it wasn't expected. But, the standard sets beat this any day.

EDIT : By the way, Thunder Wave Zweilous is a good option to help outspeed. Not dual status, meh. But, it's one to think about. I've been testing T-Wave, Substitute, Work Up, Outrage with it, and it's powerful late game, after those who resist are taken out. Hustle can be a pain, and a choice scarf set generally works better late game. However, this is something to think about, even though I again must say that Ice is a prominent attacking type, along with Fighting.

(Alt on PO: Shovel, Alt on PS: Kyurem)

 

[Annoyer]

This is really just a nitpick but it reaches 696 attack after an SD. I've been using SD Torterra on one of my new teams and its great for coming in on Golurk and clearing them out. It can easily set up an SD against Musharna which try to LO stall with Moonlight. I've been using a spread of 88 HP / 252 ATK / 168 SPD with an Adamant nature. The speed is enough to outspeed non-Jolly max speed Golem but Max speed is nice to outspeed non-Jolly Max speed Golurk. Grumpig makes a great partner with Torterra because it spreads paralysis easily with T wave and can heal off any burns or poisons with Heal Bell. Anyways, FLCL basically stated all about offensive Torterra that I can think of. Unfortunately, SD Torterra gets easily revenge killed but it's nice to break down walls.

EDIT: I would like to see Sawsbuck in the next RG mainly because I don't want to face annoying SubSeed Exeggutor on the ladder and Sawsbuck is a bawse.

 

[Elegy96]

Bleh, I'll sit out for this current research group. I may join the next one though, this is a good idea you've got going here.

 

[nyttyn]

Tanky zweilious so stronk. It's nigh on immortal and really good at parashuffling. Restception kind of sucks though.

Coil Elektross is quite frankly amazing. Always makes me rage.

Torterra kind of sucks, quad ice weakness not so stronk, fire weakness sucks, bird weakness sucks, can't really switch in due to his horrible speed, decent typing, meh stats, nifty movepool.

 

[Explorer]

Torterra actually has Dual Screens, Stealth Rock, very good physical bulk AND EdgeQuake. I think even with the ice weakness, it is strong enough to be a great support Pokemon in general and maybe even move up to RU in the future.

Keep in mind that, especially since it has Curse access and SubSeed, it makes a great Trick Room abuser.

Sample set (theory, might test if I sign up):

Torterra (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Shell Armor
EVs: 252 HP/4 Def/252 SpD
IVs: 0 Speed
Nature: Careful
-Substitute
-Leech Seed
-Curse
-Earthquake

 

[Fun With Knives]

Uh, guys? I just checked Bulbapedia. Torterra learns Outrage by B2W2 tutor.

Edit: Eelektross has some tutor moves as well, Fire Punch, Thunder Punch, Drain Punch, Giga Drain, and a few more.

 

[watashi]

Uh, guys? I just checked Bulbapedia. Torterra learns Outrage by B2W2 tutor.

Outrage is completely useless on Torterra.

 

[Fun With Knives]

Outrage is completely useless on Torterra.

I'm new.

QQ

 

[jake]

I'm new.

QQ

It's useless because it offers no real extra coverage on Torterra (aside from 2HKOing Shelgon, maybe?) and Torterra doesn't get STAB on it, making it much weaker than you'd expect. Also, locking yourself into a non-STAB move for two or three turns is likely to be far more detrimental to your team than whatever coverage that Outrage would provide. Quite a few other Pokemon get Outrage, too (Meganium does!), and none of them are particularly adept at using it except for the Dragon-types who receive STAB.

 

[Shovel]

Just thought I would throw more Torterra love out there. After one Swords Dance, and life orb, Torterra can still do massive damage to Torkoal, which has the most defense in NU (w/o eviolite) with a resistance to Wood Hammer (252Atk Life Orb +2 Torterra (+Atk) Wood Hammer vs 252HP/252Def Torkoal (+Def): 40% - 47% (140 - 165 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO.)
After this Torterra should be able to outspeed and ko it with EQ.

Now, this I found interesting.. Against a Tangela, with a Swords Dance, Torterra does up to 38% (252Atk Life Orb +2 Torterra (+Atk) Wood Hammer vs 252HP/252Def Eviolite Tangela (+Def): 32% - 38% (108 - 127 HP). Guaranteed 4HKO.)
While that's not considered "good" damage, it still is pretty amazing for Torterra to do.




252Atk Life Orb +2 Torterra (+Atk) Wood Hammer vs 252HP/252Def Sky Plate Sap Sipper Miltank (+Def): 0% - 0% (0 - 0 HP).

 

[Machineae]

Pretty sure you'd kill yourself before you beat Tangela. Especially because it can just switch out for 1/3 of its hp back, just saiyan.

 

[DTC]

Alright, this Research Group has lasted long enough. I extended the time for it because PS is still borked, but 16+ days of the same Research Group is a bit ridiculous.

Also, there is a new category: game-breaking discovery (this is a bit of a hyperbole, but you know what I mean). This is for people who made a huge discovery in Research Group. CrashinBoomBang got it this Research Group for CB Eelektross.

I will now give out the points:

1. CrashinBoomBang: 1350 - 6 points / Best Forum Discusser - 5 points / Game-breaking Discovery - 5 points | total: 16 points

2. FLCL: 1337 - 4 points / Best IRC Discusser - 5 points / Swords Dance Torterra challenge - 1 point | total: 10 points

3. Annoyer: 1325 - 4 points | total: 4 points

4. Tribute: 1209 - 2 points | total: 2 points

5. Shovel: Swords Dance Torterra challenge - 1 point | total: 1 point

Congratulations all of you that got points! I'll be posting the next Research Group soon with the Pokemon challenges this time. Posting the Pokemon challenges late was a mistake on my part, and led to a lot less people participating because they already tested the Pokemon. btw, Exeggutor won the poll (a few people pm'd me their vote or approached me on IRC), if you're wondering why it won despite not winning the VM poll. The end vote was something like 6 - 8.