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Research Week #2: Stall

Discussion in 'Dream World' started by Tobes, Mar 29, 2012.

  1. Tobes

    Tobes Woo-hoo, woo-hoo, woo-hoo-hoo!
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    That's right. It's a commonly purported myth that stall is unplayable in Dream World, but in truth it can actually be used successfully; you just have to get creative. For this Research Week we're all going to be looking into stall and how it can deal with threats that could otherwise give it serious trouble.

    Post defensive cores, hazard cores, etc. Post Pokemon who give stall trouble and how a stall team can deal with those Pokemon. (Example: Chandelure is a serious problem, but can be mitigated with Shed Shell and Pursuit Tyranitar). Also feel free to post common stall Pokemon and explain their roles, what offensive threats they deal with, etc., and comment on the Pokemon already listed here. And don't forget that a lot of stall teams run weather of some sort, so talk about those as well!

    This post will occasionally be updated with examples provided in this thread.

    Common Stall Pokemon

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    Common Stall Threats

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  2. Danilo

    Danilo
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    Amoongus- Amoongus is a really good niche mon in this metagame. Checking Keldeo, Breloom and Excadrill, while having good defensive typing is huge. Spore is awesome, HP Ice hits Dragon-types, and is an overall good Pokemon to have on a stall team

    Blissey- Probably better than Chansey in this meta because it can run Shed Shell, even though it may not need to because I haven't really seen many Sub CM Chandelure's. The thing takes almost all special attacks with ease(curse you secret sword!) and supports its team with Aromatherapy and Wish.

    Ferrothorn- Not a fan of this guy in this meta. I feel like this metagame is too fast paced for this guy and he doesn't bring enough to the table for me. Ferrothorn is excellent on rain teams though, as its Fire-type weakness is nearly nullified.

    Forretress- This is a mon that i can get behind! Since DW OU is really offensive, it's good to have a Pokemon that can set up hazards while maintaining momentum with Volt Switch. With Sturdy, you can even beat Chandelure with Earthquake or Volt Switch out to a Tyranitar as they Fire Blast u to Sturdy.

    Gliscor: Not great in this meta but still good. It losses to Breloom and Blazikien, which sucks but it does check Excadrill, Garchomp, and other threats that I'm probably forgetting to think about. Gliscor is less passive than other mons that can be found on stall teams, as it can stall out mons with Sub + Toxic or sweep with Swords Dance.

    Heatran- Not great in this meta. It's a good Steel-type resist but other than that it just losses to the top mons. Keldeo, Garchomp, Blazikien, Breloom, Excadrill and other mons... It sets up rocks and is good against sun teams but baring a significant metagame shift, i doubt this will be good.

    Hippowdon- Really physically bulky and sets up rocks. Beats most physical attackers except Breloom. Has reliable recovery, takes down Dragon-types, great mon.
  3. AOPSUser

    AOPSUser

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    Chandelure is practically a "stallbane", ie it can come in, trap any stall Pokemon, Sub up, and set up what it wants to before killing the Stall Pokemon. This can make for a very dragged out portion where Blissey is doing literally no damage to Chandelure's Sub as Chandelure sets up to +6. Hippowodon can (sort of) get past Chandelure with Earthquake, as can the very rare Bulldoze Ferrothorn, but overall, Chandelure, if it can get in on one of these Pokemon, can sweep a team. For this reason, and for the reason that Tyranitar is one of the very few Chandelure counters in DW OU, Tyranitar is perhaps the most important Pokemon on the list.
  4. Superpowerdude

    Superpowerdude "The Phone-Post King"
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    Reuniculus would be pretty annoying to stall cant be damaged by entry hazards, toxic, leech seed etc with Magic Gaurd and can proceed to Calm Mind. Phazing moves would do the trick to send him out but he would still be pretty hard to damge. also magic gaurd negates the damage taken from weather effects such as hail and sandstorm also it gets regenerator through dream world and i dont know if it is realeased but that could be annoying to stall pokemon that carry phazing moves.
  5. Conflict

    Conflict And who are you, the proud lord said That I must bow so low?
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    Well sure Chandelure is really dangerous but one can prepare for it when hes smart.

    Run Shed Shell on physically defensive mons with a weakness to Chandelures attacks such as Slowbro, Skarmory and Amoongus. Exspecially the Regeneratormons dont depend on Leftovers-Recovery much.

    If youre scared of SuBCM-Chandelure you can use Shed Shell on Blissey too but i think Blissey is better of with a CM-set (CM, Softboiled, 2 Special Moves).

    Or you gotta use Tyranitar and make smart double switches to it to trap Chandelure and sweep then.

    Not to mention that theres a good amount of defensive mons that dont give a fuck if Chandelure traps them (Vaporeon with a bit of SDef-Investment for example).

    So stall is certainly possible just harder to pull off and you cant cover every single threat out there due to all the possibilities. But thats BW for you - Team matchup plays an important role though it doesnt necessarily decide a match from the get-go it sways the momentum in one's favor.

    Conclusion: Stall is possible and in my opinion even pretty decent but it cant cover every threat out there and has to pick its poison.
  6. Porii Sames

    Porii Sames

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    BIG STALL PERSON.

    Amoonguss is absolutely fantastic; the best Keldeo counter in the game, a phenomenal Breloom counter, can take on Venusaur in the rain, etc. Amoonguss is absolutely amazing, and should be played on any team lacking a defensive core. It covers so many threats at once, can run Shed Shell and not mind the recovery, etc. In addition, it is at least somewhat diverse in what moves it can choose.

    Bliss/Chans are also amazing on stall, for 2 reasons generally. 1 is for Heal Bell, which eases the play of stall throughout the match should you play against a WoW user or get a crucial wall frozen. You can also run Rocks and not have to run a second steel type to overlap the coverage you get. Stall teams NEED all 6 slots, no exceptions. And of course, special walls and Wishpassing? Yes please.

    Ferro is cool, not as cool as he was before with all the new threats running around, but he still can do his job fine. Leech Seed, hazards, TWave, good STABs, etc. make him an above average stall Poke. Forry is in the same boat, only it can ease prediction with Volt Switch, spin, and set up TSpikes, while exchanging Iron Barbs, TWave, Leech Seed, and a good STAB. Skarmory is another Steel Spiker, but this time it has access to a phazing move, immediate recovery, and a flying STAB, which is useful for threats like Terrakion.

    Jellicent, Tentacruel, and Slowbro are the premier Bulky Waters of this gen. Jellicent is better for breaking other stall, Tentacruel is better for spinning (ya don't say) and laying down Toxic Spikes or messing up other stall Pokemon with the dreaded SubToxic set in the rain. Jellicent is notable for being able to beat some Manaphy 1 on 1, especially if it carries Hail. Slowbro is notable for Regenerator, and paired with other Regenerators such as Amoonguss, makes it amazing for Stall cores, and Slowbro + Amoonguss is a fantastic core alone, which is good for balance.

    Tyranitar and Hippo are two Sand setters; the former is used for its much superior mixed coverage and special bulk, while the latter is used as a physical tank and phasing capabilities. Both have access to the ever useful Stealth Rock, which is mandatory on any stall team.

    Gliscor and Heatran are a bit less common on purestall teams than others, but have amazing type coverage, and access to many annoying moves (SubTect for Gliscor, TormentTran for Heatran), and they both cover a large amount of threats.

    The majority of the threats on the Stall threatlist can be handled much easier if Rainstall is being played. Blaziken's commonly sun boosted Flare Blitz is neutralized from the rain, making Tentacruel, Gliscor, Jellicent, and Slowbro hard counters to it, taking low damage and resisting its STABs. Chandelure takes literally nothing out of stall if you run Shed Shell, as all stall teams should have something to deal with it (Toxic Spikes + Chansey or Blissey, Tentacruel, Gastrodon, Heatran, or Tyranitar), and unless it is Sub Calm Mind without Tspikes down, you should be fine. Excadrill can be covered with Skarmory, Gliscor, and Hippowdon, although these can all have some difficulties depending on what sets Excadrill runs (Life Orb Adamant with Rock Slide, Air Balloon Adamant with Return, and Air Balloon Adamant with EQ) and hax. Keldeo is handily countered by Specially Defensive Amoonguss, Toxic Jellicent, and Toxic Tentacruel. Manaphy is a bit harder, Jellicent and Suicune with a super effective Hidden Power can handily counter Manaphy, but there are few stall Pokes that can reliably counter Manaphy. Under rain, Amoonguss, some Skarmory, and some Ferrothorn can take it in rain, but in sun it has few viable counters if it runs HP Fire. All of these are difficult but manageable to cover.

    IMO rainstall is the way to go.
  7. Deinosaur

    Deinosaur GO GOOMY

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    I love stall, but I haven't gotten to try it a whole lot in this tier yet. Some problems appear to be stallbreakers like Blaziken, Chandelure, and Manaphy. A lot of the solution is to run a weather on your stall team as well.

    http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3463141

    This is a stall team built by Porii Sames (the poster above me), it shows how effective rain stall can be in the metagame.


    http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3463878

    This stall team was built by Princess Bri. it's an incredibly well built sand stall team. I've used it, and no complaints from me.

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