Research Week #3: Sigilyph, Golurk, Raichu, Camerupt

Texas Cloverleaf

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Congratulations to Zebraiken for winning last Research Week!

Research Week looks to investigate Pokemon that have potential in RU, be it in stats, movepool, or supporting their team, to serve as an innovative choice in today's metagame. These are Pokemon that, for the most part, remain relatively untested. I've selected 4 Pokemon I feel, with help from everyone else, could see the rise of new and powerful sets, or the fulfilment of a particular niche. Perhaps the title is a bit of a misnomer; in fact, this installment (and likely future ones) of Research Week will continue as long as the discussion does, and that's where you all come in.

If you have anything to say about any of these Pokemon, please post about them! It doesn't matter if you've used them or have just faced them in battle, anything is fine (but please, do try them). Just be sure to back up your posts with good competitive reasoning!

-Be open-minded, don't just say something is terrible and walk away; at least look into them and see what options they may be able to utilize!
-Feel free to theorymon, but make it clear that you are theorymon'ing. At the end of the week, however, I want discussion to move towards how useful the Pokemon actually are in RU, and what sets are effective on them.
-Just because an analysis has been done for a Pokemon doesn't mean there isn't more to explore; it's quite possible that something might have gone unnoticed or is missing.
-Do not post in this thread complaining about the Pokemon I choose and/or suggesting ones we should do for future weeks. I want discussion to stay on topic about the 3 Pokemon we are "researching". Feel free to VM / PM me these suggestions, but don't expect the next research week to have all the Pokemon you suggested, or any of them.

So, the 4 Pokemon we will be looking at this research week are Sigilyph, Golurk, Raichu, and Camerupt

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How useful are these Pokemon in RU? What sets can they run effectively? What gives them trouble? What advantages do they have over other Pokemon?

Discuss; the discussion that come out of this will surely be illuminating! Don't forget, you're not just limited to this topic to discuss these Pokemon. The #rarelyused irc channel is a perfectly suitable place to discuss them as well. At the end of the discussion period, I hope we can reach a general consensus on how good these Pokemon really are, and that we might find some interesting discoveries.


Alright, now that that's out of the way we can get to the fun part of this. First up, Reasearch Week will now have a duration of roughly two weeks. The reason for this is as follows:

The Research Week Challenge:
  • Users will use one of the research week mons on their team
  • The user with highest ladder ranking at the end of the two week period will get temporary status (hops) in #rarelyused
  • Users will be expected to post their experiences with the pokemon they use
  • If they do not participate in the discussion they will be passed over

The first week of the challenge will be open for initial speculation on how one of the Research Week Pokemon will fare, previous experience with the Pokemon, or even just to say that you will be participating in the ladder challenge and on what alt (mandatory, new alts are required). The second week is where I expect the main discussion to occur and to heat up. This is when you can post battle logs, experiences with your team on the ladder and generally how a Pokemon has worked out for you.

Remember, if you are the top player at the end of the round you will get temporary hops in #rarelyused, which can become permanent depending on your track record. (If you already have hops+ we'll work something out)
 

Double01

Hate it or love it the under dog's on top
I'll do this challenge with all 4 pokes. Wish me luck.

Username: Raichuz

Current Peak: 1184

Thoughts: I think it is a very good poke that has a ton of potential. I'm suprised more people don't use this shit. I'll be testing a few different sets and get back to you which one is the dominant one.

I've did some testing and golurk honestly seems like the weakest link out of the group. He can spinblock for shit as Hitmonchan has Ice Punch and Kabutops has waterfall and shit. Really he cant set up a sub without raichu encoring something into t bolt or something.

Also Sub+Encore Raichu is absolutely amazing. Being able to lock mons like Rotom into T bolt is awesome and then being able to set up a sub on the switch is very good. It also allows other mons to have a safe switch in. So far very pleased with Raichu.

For Sigilyph Ive been using Roost+3atk set and it has not let me down. With its out standing coverage from psychic, air slash, and hp fighting it can hit a ton of things for SE damage.
 
I cant tell you how well it would do in RU but I have been using Raichu quite alot in NU.

Raichu (M) @ Focus Sash Trait: Lightningrod
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Nasty Plot
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Encore

Raichu has no bulk so theres not much point trying to give him a whole lot more. Hence I've popped a focus sash onto him and that does a fine job of immitating bulk, he can almost always take two hits. Actually, this whole set is built around him being able to take exactly two hits.


Offensively the lightning mouse is pretty good. He comes with a reasonable special attack and incredible speed stat. The speed is high enough that you can expect him to beat out anything non-scarfed and non-priority (and NU). This is great because it puts him in the position to punish any non-combat moves your opponent might want to perform. So if your opponent attempts a swords dance you can punish them next turn with an immediate encore. Note that encore bypasses substitutes and its ususally better than taunt because you wont get burnt by people straightup attacking you.

Nasty plot is a no brainer. When you know that you can take a hit there is absolutely no reason not to double your special attack. Worst case scenario you just your two turns of damage in one go and then die. On the other hand you might kill off your opponent outright and go for a sweep. Nasty plot is also important for abusing successful encores. With the coverage you get from bolt/beam your opponent really cant afford for you to get one or two of these in.

A handy combo I've discovered is how good he is at working around sucker punch (common in NU). First you need to anticipate the sucker punch with a nasty plot - not tricky because you should usually be starting off with a nasty plot anyway. If they sucker punch that then you have them - encore the sucker punch and enjoy some bonus nasty plotting. If they decide to stay in rather than switching then you have to guess if they are going to sucker punch again or go for a real attack. Should they attack then you can waste them without taking a hit and should they sucker punch then you can encore again and run them out of sucker punches. If you make this 50/50 guess once then you get to take them out AND at least one boost. There are two guesses to make too so odds on you will be fine. If you guess correctly twice then you even get a full health bar! Essentially you can treat sucker punch as just being a particularly dangerous stat boosting move.

I think the best thing about Raichu is the flexibility. While he doesnt have an obvious slot in any team he can perform a whole variety of roles relatively effectively. Encore makes him a strong lead (nasty plot -> encore -> nasty plot is a great punish for soemone mindlessly setting up stealth rock). Encore also makes him an interesting mid-game switch in against a poke that you know is going to perform a setup move (use their setup as a free turn then threaten to punish with superfast encore). Lightningrod is obviously awsome and allows you to punish paralysis wave abuse pretty hard, amongst other things. Then again you might decide that he would be suitable to sweep away the endgame - if you can remove priority moves there isnt alot that can stop a mouse sweep.

Main issue: hazards.
 

jake

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Sigilyph and Golurk are really probably going to be the two most successful Pokemon here, imo. Raichu could probably be decent (although I wish it were a bit faster), and I really don't see Camerupt going anywhere outside of being a hard counter to Manectric, pretty much. I'll be playtesting with Golurk sets on a variety of different alts but I'll get back to this thread and start a new alt once I've figured out the best way to play it.
 

Double01

Hate it or love it the under dog's on top
Initial Thoughts on All 4 pokes:

Raichu: This rat thing has pleasently suprised me. Being able to out speed a large amount of the metagame with its excellent base 100 speed. I've only been using the sub+encore set and it has been working excellently. Being able to encore pokes and then either setting up my self and being a nuisance or allowing me to switch into a different poke that can sweep. Raichu is also a big reason why i can get golurk in freely allowing him to set up a sub and rape. Raichu is very weak though and even a mach punch from Hitmonchan comes close to killing it so I do have to be careful switching it in and out. Overall, probably the most shocking poke I've been using.

Sigilyph: Sigilyph is also a very very good mon. I'm really suprised on why it isn't get used more. It is supremely versatile compared to some mons. The set that has worked for me is the three atk+roost LO set. This set has excellent coverage from air slash, psychic, and hp fighting and deals a crap ton of damage with its fantastic 103 spatk LO boosted attacks. Suffering no damage from SR or LO recoil it is truly a great mon. Also it's speed is another thing that should be highlighted in this mon. With base 97 Speed it, like Raichu, can out speed a lot of the tier. With a little hazard support it can tear teams apart that are expecting the pycho shift set or something. Overall, probably the best 'mon on my team for reasons listed above.

Golurk: Golurk has probably been the most disappointing poke that i've used. Granted it is very dangerous and strong once behind a sub it is just very difficult for it to get behind a sub with its no so good defenses. Luckily, this poke can be used succesfully in conjunction with Raichu's Encore which allows Golurk to set up very easily on a poke locked into a fighting or electric type move. If you are looking for a poke that can reliably spin block for you DONT use this poke. It loses to pratically the two most common rapid spinners in the tier, Hitmonchan and Kabutops. It can not switch into either poke and can not beat either poke. I am really disapointed on how bad it is at spin blocking as it is probably the worst spin blocker in the tier. Overall, this poke is meh at best but maybe im not using the right set.

Camerupt: Camerupt is an odd ball for me. It can usually set up SR reliably which is always good thanks to Solid Rock ability and not horrible defenses. Also don't under estimate its power boasting a 100 Sp atk. I've been using a pretty lame set with 252 hp and max Sp atk evs. I probably going to try a more specially defensive Camerupt to help check Sceptile and shit. I also may want to try Its Rock Polish set but I'm afraid i'll miss SR. Overall, its actually not as bad as I thought it would be but Ive only touched on a few of its sets.

Expect more of my thoughts as I use them more later on.
 
Initial thoughts:

Raichu: If you're an artist with Encore, this will be good, much like anything else with a fast Encore can be useful. Raichu can certainly be threatening with a Nasty Plot under it's belt, as RU isn't exactly renowned for it's special walls. It really comes down to Encore, though, as without a successful Encore or Encore-related mind games, Raichu isn't setting up any time soon. He'll appreciate not being revenge killed by Honchkrow's Sucker Punch, but he might also miss the chance to switch in and Encore it. Anyone trying out Camerupt will have a leg up on Raichu, as well. For the most part, though, I see this being fun for good players but ultimately too prediction reliant to be a reliable addition to a serious team.

Sigilyph: Obviously good. Both the Flame Orb and Life Orb sets can destroy if you remove certain pokemon from the opponent's team. IMO the Flame Orb set is particularly threatening, since not only can it be a late game cleaner (which is what the Life Orb set tends to do) but it can also spread burn and serve a defensive role in the mid game as well. Great "win condition" mon.

Golurk: Golurk used to be damn good, although the arrival of Spiritomb won't do it any favors. The subpunch set may be predictable, but let's not forget that he also has a great Choice Band set. Solid typing for a Choice Bander, great coverage (both ghost/fight and edge/quake) and decent speed for a choiced tank. Spiritomb will be a pain in the ass, though.

Camerupt: I don't really see this working well. It may work as a niche counter to some special threats, but leaving SR up to a niche utility counter is just asking for trouble, imo. I suppose it would be fun to catch a Qwilfish switch with Earth Power, though. If it had a good tank stat spread (i.e. 1 atk and 1 def stat instead of 2 atk stats) it would have a lot of potential... however, being both slow and frail makes it so hard to accomplish anything. It has to rely solely on it's typing, which, while unique, just isn't that good.
 
I've been using SubPunch Golurk for a while now, and I've had a lot of success with him. He's excellent at breaking through the big defensive pokes of the tier (Slowking, Steelix, Uxie, etc.) with the exception of Tangrowth of course. Never had any trouble switching him in either. Paired with something to beat Tangrowth (Sigilyph?), he gives defensive teams fits.

CM Roost Sigi is a wicked sweeper. Hits hard enough right off the bat to threaten, then slaughters with a boost. One of, if not the best special sweeper in the tier.

Also throwing my hat in the ring, gonna try the two I haven't used yet:
ALT - The Musketeer
 
I agree a sigilyph and golurk offensive core is actually pretty good. With sharpedo gone it has a little more defensive merit too. Unfortunate weakness to pursuit, but maintaining a sub or offensive pressure should solve that.

Now that the flame orb sigilyph has lost its hype, I went back to using it (kind of on a gimmick team, but its worked) it's good when hazers and phazers are gone. Nice ability to burn slow things early game too. I still think LO offensive sets are probably a little better, but sigilyph is just pretty good in general at a few different sets.

I'll be pseudo pswedish

Starting off with some sigilyph stuff (maybe really unorthodox)
 
This is a slow moving research week thread.....anyway, defensive Camerupt is a bit of a bust for me. No recovery, terrible speed and water/ground weakness really let him down. He's good if your team has trouble with electric types, but I usually just ended up setting up SR (sometimes) and dying. Yawn is fun though. Anybody have any luck with offensive camel? Maybe TR?
 
I'm going to assume that anyone may post here. But maybe the following set for Sigilyph?
Sigilyph @ Life Orb
ev's 252 hp/ 252 sp. Def/ 4 sp. Atk
Trait:Magic Guard
Modest
moveset: Whirlwind, Toxic, Psychic/Ice Beam, Calm Mind/Cosmic Power/Roost? (CM's probably better though and I don't know if Sigilyph has access to Roost off the top of my head)
theory behind this: once all of you hazards are set up, and opposing spinner(s) gone, bring in this Sigilyph to spread around status/passive damage with Whirlwind/Toxic combination. This Sigilyph has a 252/252 specially defensive spread so it may take at least one hit. Whirlwind and Toxic are the idea of this annoy set. Psychic for stab or Ice Beam for coverage, also isn't Taunt bait then. Last move slot could be Calm Mind to raise special defense and special attack, Cosmic Power (if accessible, although I thought I saw one use CP) to boost defenses, or Roost as a recovery (again if accessible) which will allow it to live (somewhat) longer. My previous experiances are if it doesn't set up, it is actually pretty frail. You may try Leftovers for even more longevity over the extra power of LO.
I hope I'm allowed to post here, this is a possible idea for Sigilyph along with a possible moveset and spread. (Yes, this is me theorymonning, so don't hate on me.) Hope I helped.
EDIT: moveslots are seperated by commas, not slashes. Slashes represent multiple move options for said moveslot.
 
Interesting for a special tank maybe? I assume that's where you were headed.

It has access to both Cosmic Power and Roost.

It basically all comes down to what you need and what works for you, but I tried a middle of the road Sigilyph (@Flame Orb, Roost, Psycho Shift, Air Slash, Psychic) mostly to fake the Cosmic Power set and it didn't work that well. It could spread burns ok, but the normal Cosmic Power set can do that just as well.

I'm using the Cosmic Power Defensive set on my RW team now. It's ok... pretty much a guaranteed win if certain conditions are met, but these conditions happen a bit less often than I would like. Plus I really dislike the increased chance of Hax when using a defensive booster to drag out several turns. LO Roost + 3 attacks is still better in my opinion, but I'm trying to get the defensive set to work well.

Raichu is... my very definition of meh.

It's not exactly bad, but access to encore and Lightning rod isn't really enough to make me like it.

In your average 10 matches, this is usually how it is. 5 matches = it does nothing except troll once or twice with Encore and Lightning Rod and get a hit or two in - maybe a KO, 3 matches = it dies doing nothing, 2 matches = it pulls off a decent sweep and gets like 2 or 3 KOs.

For what it's worth I think it's a little better than electivire and eelektross. Although that is likely just based on my preference of the electric type stereotype. Be fast, get some hits in, annoy, die.

Just my opinion again.

Manectric = Magneton = Rotom-C > Galvantula > Raichu > Electivire = Eelektross

pretty much only the weakness to all Hazards makes me put Galvantula lower than the top 3, makes it easier to play around.

I'm going to keep working with my team of Raichu and Sigilyph (at least they have some synergy)
 
@ lars.
You're close, but the set I listed above (I think you were talking to me) is more of a shuffling set that also passes toxic. The ev's help serve the purpose of a special tank.
with your thoughts on Raichu, to me Raichu really is too frail in my experiances to be very much use other than passing paralysis via Static or TW, for an electric type, it is not super fast, but it can pack-a-punch (Call of Duty reference for the win! :P) if it finds a chance. All in all, use a different electric type, Magneton has a steel type advantage to Raichu, more bulk while STILL having access to defense boosts from Eviolite.
Pardon the rant, but really unless you have a team that is unprepared for it, you miscalculate, you misclick, get surprised and don't recover, are an AI, in a coma, stupid, suck or dead, you shouldn't have much trouble with Raichu. That's what my main problem with it, it can't take a hit. The movepool is not that much of an asset either, basically consisting of the basic electric type moves, Iron Tail, Encore, Attract, and a few odds and ends. Some pros include Static, Agility, and a decent special attacks. Those are my thoughts on Raichu, a pokemon whose cons seem to outweigh the pros. Sorry Lt. Surge.
I will not just walk away, this is me speaking from experiance.
 

PK Gaming

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Awww yeahhh

Was there any doubt i'd end up posting to back up my main man Raichu?

Scoopapa basically covered everything there was to say about Raichu (curse your ninja bearing skills). I really like how Raichu gets Lightningrod... finally a worthwhile ability that does SOMETHING. You can actually switch into things semi-reliably, though you're pretty only limited to choiced electric-type attacks and Thunder Waves. When I get a chance to play, i'll be testing out NP, but I also want to see if Volt Tackle is any good.

Golurk in RU? I swear, I think he keeps flip flopping. With gligar gone he just got 100X better.
 

Windsong

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Yooooooo, I've been laddering up as never complete and was up in the 1300s a few days ago before I stopped with a couple of different teams, but the coolest is camerupt stall, because SDef Camerupt is so damn good. I know that Ginku has also has a ton of success with it, as have a couple of other guys. It's like DPP pert almost; sets rocks, doesn't do all that much else, but is damn good at setting rocks. Also hard counters basically every electric type in the tier which is pretty cool too.

Camerupt@Leftovers
Calm | Solid Rock
252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD

- Lava Plume
- Stealth Rock
- Stone Edge
- Roar

Hard counters moltres and typhlosion too, which is always nice.
 
Cracked 1300 with a 3 attacks Sigi/subpunch Golurk providing my (almost) all my offense, 1311 currently. I used to be all about CM, but the roost + 3 atks set is great, HP Fighting adds a ton of coverage options. The only real threat to the two is Cofag, which is cleared out nicely by Skuntank (Drapion is 4 newbs). Golurk hits so hard, and loves all the Munchlax running around. Focus Punch beats out Whirlwind in terms of priority, so Lax is basically a free base 180 punch to someone's chin, whether Lax stays or not.
 

Texas Cloverleaf

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Aight, this period is nearly complete, so lets get some final thoughts in on the viability of these Pokemon in theirs, and ladder peaks if you so desire the status in #ru.
 

Honko

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I'll post my Camerupt set, since it was a little different from what most others were using.

Camerupt (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Solid Rock
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Stealth Rock
- Fire Blast
- Earth Power
- Hidden Power [Rock]

A pretty basic tank. You can still switch in on Electric- and Fire-types easily, but you hit way harder than the fully defensive set. He actually 2HKOes nearly the entire tier (after Stealth Rock, everything except Munchlax, Slowking, Hariyama, Mandibuzz, Clefable, Poliwrath, and specially defensive Gallade and Dusknoir). Obviously he won't be sweeping with that low Speed, but he will put a big hole in basically anything that switches in unless it's a dedicated special wall. His typing gives him plenty of opportunities to switch in and force something out, so he can reliably get up Stealth Rock and dish out a couple of strong hits every match. I was very pleasantly surprised, and will consider using Camerupt again in the future for any team that needs a good answer to Manectric that can also set up hazards.
 

DetroitLolcat

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Okay I don't have ladder peaks or any of that jazz but I have to admit that Sigilyph is wonderful in RU right now. I felt that the Offensive Calm Mind is by far its best set, but its Burn set isn't very nice either. Sigilyph, since it usually runs a defensive set, is often looked at as a defensive Pokemon. However, its stats show a pretty clear offensive bias and Magic Guard is just the icing on the cake. 322 Speed and 305 Special Attack is pretty brutal, and that's before you factor in the recoil-free Life Orb. I played a lot with the desert bird thing and it's definitely no slouch.

edit: damn didn't realize this research week was over sorry but sigil is still good
 

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