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Retrofit (New pokes, RBY Mechanics Theorymon thread)

Discussion in 'Orange Islands' started by Chou Toshio, Jul 28, 2012.

  1. Hemp Man

    Hemp Man

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    Good point.

    With 150 as both offensive stat, Rayquaza can go physical, special, or mixed (although IMO Physical is best because of Swords Dance). Damn dude is too awesome.
  2. JSND

    JSND

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    95 speed in(I assume) Blizzard full metagame ?

    Uhhh im not sure about Rayquaza tbh
  3. Spork

    Spork

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    Porygon-Z is kinda cool. It's like a speedy Chansey with higher Special and the ability to actually use its STAB Normal. Recover/Blizzard/Thunderbolt/Thunder Wave|Hyper Beam?
  4. Hemp Man

    Hemp Man

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    Yeah, it would need some paralyze support in order to sweep.
  5. Afti

    Afti

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    So, I just realized that Milotic is scary. Really, really scary.

    HP: 95
    ATK: 60
    DEF: 79
    SPC: 125
    SPE: 81

    -Wrap
    -Recover
    -Surf
    -Blizzard

    Huge Special and good HP mean it's incredibly durable. They send a physical attacker like Tauros out to break you? Wrap on the switch-in and get out unscathed. Surf and Blizzard hit incredibly hard; Hydro Pump is also a viable option, with power on par with Articuno's Blizzard, but 80% accuracy is a problem. Milotic can function as a wall that never dies, much like Chansey- but with passable (though only passable) physical bulk, ridiculous offensive power (nothing is setting up on Milotic- maybe Amnesia Waters, due to coverage issues; that's it) and Wrap.
  6. Hemp Man

    Hemp Man

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    Entei:
    HP: 115
    ATK: 115
    DEF: 85
    SPC: 75
    SPE: 100

    ~ Body Slam
    ~ Hyper Beam
    ~ Fire Blast
    ~ Fire Spin

    Fire sucks in RBY, and this is as cliche as it gets. But hey, at least we get a somewhat bulky Fire Pokemon in the game.
  7. Bynine

    Bynine

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    Mantine
    HTP: 65
    ATK: 40
    DEF: 70
    SPC: 140
    SPD: 70

    - Surf
    - Blizzard
    - Agility/Confuse Ray/Slam
    - Agility/Confuse Ray/Slam

    The last two slots are just filler - all you have to do is wreck things with that magnificent Special.
  8. Hemp Man

    Hemp Man

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    Mantine would finally be better than Skarmory, haha.
  9. The Reptile

    The Reptile awoat needs a custom title
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    Rotom-Frost is really cool actually

    Rotom-Frost
    Ice/Electric
    HP: 50
    Atk: 65
    Def: 107
    SpC: 107 (over 105)
    Spe: 86

    Blizzard
    Thunderbolt
    Thunder Wave
    Mimic / Rest / Confuse Ray / Reflect

    Rotom-Frost's movepool is really small, however, he gets exactly what he needs. What makes the refrigerator so cool is that not only does he get STAB BoltBeam, but he is also the only thing that resists BoltBeam in a Retrofitted Meta. His HP and Attack are pitiful, but his Defenses and Special are decently high. His modest Special is boosted when you consider STAB on BoltBeam, which will most likely score a Super Effective hit. Ice-typing is good in RBY due to lack of good Fighting-types and Fire-types, while Electric is a good typing as well. However, he looses Levitate, making him weak to EarthSlide (that's what I'm calling it at least). Last move is filler, I pretty much just slapped on every move that is slightly viable.

    Also, Thundurus-T is pretty cool

    Thundurus-T
    Electric/Flying
    HP: 79
    Atk: 105
    Def: 70
    SpC: 145 (over 80)
    Spe: 101

    Thunderbolt
    Psychic
    Hyper Beam / Agility
    Thunder Wave

    His Special is really good, and unlike Chandelure, he has the speed to abuse it. He competes with Zapdos for a spot, but Thundurus-T has some advantages over out spikey friend. He's outspeeds all of the base 100's by 1 point. He also has a higher attack stat, although he has no physical STAB to abuse like Zapdos. He does have Psychic though, which is a decent enough coverage move, as it allows you to hit common Electric resists such as Rhyperior. Hyper Beam is to hit weaken things with lower defenses. Agility can be used if 101 isn't fast enough for you, but outspeeding base 100s is probably good enough. It should be noted that because of how Paralysis works in Gen 1, Agility would allow you to keep your key 101 speed even if you're paralyzed. This is because if you use agility while you're paralyzed, unless you're hit with a speed reducing move (aka String Shot), Agility will essentially put you at neutral speed. What is really cool though, is his access to Thunder Wave. This is extremely good when you factor in that he will always outspeed base 100s and slower, so he will get the jump on them, allowing him to support his team, allowing a sweep for slower pokemon, such as Rayquaza or, more realistically, something like Rotom-Anything!
  10. McGrrr

    McGrrr Facetious
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    I feel like a lot of the offensive Pokemon with <100 base speed are being overvalued. Even 100 base speed is probably "slow" in a retrofit because the benchmark has increased by so much. Blizzard weakness is crushing due to likely domination from new ice types and the attack will be whored to everything.

    Regice for uber.

    Dusknoir seems like a necessity to counter suped up Tauros clones:

    HP : 45
    Atk : 100
    Def : 135
    SPC : 135 (over 65)
    Spe : 45

    Blizzard
    Thunderpunch
    Earthquake (best option against Chansey/low Def psychic types)
    Confuse ray
  11. Ondore

    Ondore

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    Abomasnow (Ice/Grass)
    HP: 90
    Att: 92
    Def: 75
    Speed: 60
    Special: 92 (over 85)

    - Blizzard
    - Razor Leaf
    - Rock Slide
    - Earthquake

    With a moveset like that, you'd think he'd be awesome, but his stats just don't stack up to other existing Pokemon in his environment (the Razor Leaf is worse than Venusaur's, there's plenty of Blizzard being thrown around on better Specials, etc). He'd require some prediction to pull off when one of its many (many) weaknesses switch in, as QuakeSlide super-effects all but one of his six weaknesses (lolfighting).
  12. JSND

    JSND

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    ^ Aboma has an "imaginary" 4 weakness tbh

    But with the retrofit having beasts such as Regice, its a subject that might change....
  13. Antihaxxer

    Antihaxxer

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    In retrofit, there is :
    - no stealth rock
    - no steel type
    - no good bug type
    - no poison type attack
    - no good Fighting Pokemon
    - Rare fire attacks
    - Rare Flying attack

    So except Zapdos Drill Peck and some rare FireBlast&Submission, we can't say that Abo have a lot of weaknesses. He resists however Water, Grass, Electric ... Which isn't bad !
  14. McGrrr

    McGrrr Facetious
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    It looks like the competitive environment would be populated by stuff with significantly >100 base specials, so I doubt that something like Abomasnow is going to cut the mustard, especially with 60 base speed. However, at least it can switch into water types with relative impunity.

    Nevermind Dusknoir, Jellicent has STAB and HP recovery, and can actually outspeed some stuff.

    HP : 100
    Atk : 60
    Def : 70
    SPC : 105 (over 85)
    Spe : 60

    Surf
    Nightshade/Blizzard
    Confuse Ray
    Recover
  15. Chou Toshio

    Chou Toshio @Fighting Necktie
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    Don't forget that Milotic gets Haze, so if you were really worried about set ups (which aren't that common in RBY outside Amnesia anyway) you could always get rid of them that way.


    Also, an obviously nice Uber:

    Kyurem White

    HP: 125
    ATK: 120
    DEF: 90
    SPC: 170
    SPE: 95

    -Blizzard

    That's all you need.

    But seriously, other moves it can use (it doesn't have a lot but just enough): Slash, Hyper Beam, Psychic, Light Screen, Reflect, Rest.

    Alternatively, you could always Mimic to try to grab a Thunderbolt/Thunder from Lapras (or Kyogre, or whatever).

    Basically, you've got ridic special (though lower than Regice obviously), and while you miss out on Thunderbolt, you've got good Speed, overall much better bulk, and the ability to go mix with the 140 base power Slash or Hyper Beam firing of 120 ATK.

    Only sad thing is that it's only other Special attack is Psychic, but Normal / Ice has pretty awesome coverage in RB (as Normal + anything that kills Rhydon/Golem is good in RB), and Kyurem-W has more than enough ATK to make Slash good. Since most Ubers will be packing fat Specials, a powerful Slash might be better anyway.
  16. Elveman

    Elveman

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    Shuckle is hackedmon with very, very limited movepool.
    Shuckle:
    Hp: 20
    Atk: 10
    Def: 230
    Spc: 230
    Spe: 5

    -Mimic
    -Toxic
    -Substitute
    -Rest

    Mimic is main shuckle's move which allows him to copy any special move and prepare to sweep. Toxic is option to physical-based pokemon. Substitute for avoiding status moves such as Toxic and TWave. With Rest shuckle can survive even more and make your foe frustrate.
  17. Bynine

    Bynine

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    Medicham
    HP: 60
    AT: 60
    DEF: 75
    SPC: 75
    SPD: 80

    - Hi Jump Kick
    - Psychic
    - Fire Punch
    - Ice Punch

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
  18. Chou Toshio

    Chou Toshio @Fighting Necktie
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    GS's Deoxys-D set:

    Deoxys-D
    -Psychic
    -Wrap
    -Agility
    -Recover

    Actually all the deoxys + wrap (deoxys-s, lol) would be pretty silly :P
  19. SpecsX

    SpecsX

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    idk if ayone else noticed, but Slaking is on that list. And it has a decent special movepool.
    This is something i've thought of a lot, glad to see it has a place to be discussed!
  20. JSND

    JSND

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    Slaking :

    Snorlax, but better - SDS

    No, seriously....

    Anyway just slap a FishKing on the damn Slaking and call it a day. i wonder if i actualy wanted to use Good ol FishLax on Slaking or Amnesia. On one hand, FishKing lacks the Selfdestruct, and have 100 speed which IIRC is Snorlax biggest problem at using Amnesia(outspeed + Crit)

    So, yeah

    Slaking :
    Slash/EQ
    Body Slam/EQ
    Hyper Beam
    Blizzard

    Hyper Beam for finisher. Slash or Body Slam as your choice. I would choose Body Slam for the para tbh. EQ for Gengar, and Blizzard for Rocks. Tauros clone ? Sure why not(i think only Arceus comes close to this insanity)
  21. Chou Toshio

    Chou Toshio @Fighting Necktie
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    Arceus would probably do something more like:

    -Swords Dance
    -Hyper Beam
    -Recover
    -Earthquake

    (Another set come up with by GS).

    Thing about Slaking / Regigigas is that they are so fucking powerful, there's almost no point in running Blizzard/Surf + Earthquake, as Earthquake just kills rocks and gengar with ease.

    Similarly, after a SD, Arceus has no need for Ice Beam. Just kill, and kill with HB and EQ.
  22. Mechagodzilla

    Mechagodzilla

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    Cobalion (Fighting)

    HP: 91
    ATK: 90
    DEF: 129
    SPEC: 72
    SPD: 108

    -Thunder Wave
    -Body Slam
    -Mimic
    -Hyper Beam

    Big stats, tiny movepool, that is to be said. Psychic weak, double kick (lol) as its strongest STAB, can't touch ghosts, that's as close as a Entei counterpart for a bad legendary pkmn. It gets Thunder wave as a fast and physical wall which is a slighty unique role for it. Body Slam as its most reliable move and Mimic is necessary for grabbing moves to hit rock types and ghosts. Fortunately, it resists rock slide which is the safest for it. Hyper Beam coming from an okay 90 ATK can work as well.

    Gliscor (Ground/Flying)

    HP: 75
    ATK: 95
    DEF: 125
    SPEC: 45
    SPD: 95

    -Agility
    -Swords Dance
    -Earthquake
    -Rock Slide

    Blizzard weak? Frail in special? Ow... But once it can get both SD and agility boosts, expect a destructive force coming with a STAB Earthquake.
  23. Antihaxxer

    Antihaxxer

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    Slash with SD is not so well ... So I think Rock Slide is better.
  24. Mechagodzilla

    Mechagodzilla

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    Darn, forgot that slash ignores stat changes.
  25. SpecsX

    SpecsX

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    I imagine Smeargle would be a monster in this meta, with waking up burning a turn. Maybe AmnesiaPass too, although w/out focus sash....

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