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Revenankh Analysis (Part II)

Discussion in 'Create-A-Pokémon Project' started by tennisace, Dec 14, 2008.

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  1. tennisace

    tennisace another eggnog, please
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    Same deal as Syclant, changed stats and new threats.

    Thanks Beej for writing up the counters, I'm done now.

    Disclaimer: This is for people who have been on the server and actually TESTED it, not pure theorymon.

    [SET]
    name: Bulk Up
    move 1: Bulk Up
    move 2: Shadow Sneak
    move 3: Hammer Arm
    move 4: Rest
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Shed Skin
    nature: Careful
    evs: 252 HP / 120 Def / 136 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]
    <p>Revenankh can easily come in on its many resists and immunities, and thus take advantage of the switches it causes. Bulk Up makes it all but impregnable to physical attacks, as well as boosting its already decent attack stat to make it an even greater threat. As such, is recommended that you tend to it's Special Defense with your EVs, since it is so easy to stat-up in a metagame without many common phazers. Rest allows you to easily switch in on Toxic Spikes or Will-o-Wisp and Shed Skin off the status. For that reason, Sleep Talk is not necessary on this set, because you have a 51% chance of waking up early with Shed Skin.</p>

    <p>As for your offensive moves, Hammer Arm is your strongest Fighting-type move, allowing it to put the hurt on many Pokemon that are neutral to it after a Bulk Up or two. Because of the speed drop, Shadow Sneak is recommended in tandem with Hammer Arm, because the priority negates the speed drop somewhat. Shadow Sneak will easily OHKO Azelf and Gengar after a couple Bulk Ups, and severly dent the Rotom Formes and other Revenankh. However, you can also use Mach Punch and Shadow Punch if you would like to get the jump on Pokemon like Weavile and Stratagem. It is recommended that you use 252 HP / 116 Atk / 136 Def / 4 Spe with an Impish Nature when using Mach Punch, as after only one Bulk Up it will allow you to 2HKO Bulky Tyranitar and Stratagem with Mach Punch, while avoiding a 2HKO due to priority. If you're not sold on Hammer Arm's accuracy and speed drops, you can use Brick Break instead of it. This also gets rid of pesky screens in your way.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Three Attacks
    move 1: Hammer Arm
    move 2: Shadow Sneak
    move 3: Ice Punch / Power Whip
    move 4: Rest / Bulk Up
    item: Life Orb / Leftovers
    ability: Shed Skin
    nature: Adamant
    evs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]
    <p>This set has some advantages over the Bulk Up set in the extra move slot, giving much better coverage and making it more of an immediate threat. The final move can either be Ice Punch to deal with Dragon-types and Flying-types like Dragonite and Zapdos, or Power Whip to take down bulky Water and Ground-types like Vaporeon and Hippowdon.</p>

    <p>Rest is the main option in the last slot, allowing you to heal off the damage of Life Orb, however Bulk Up is also viable if you wish to set up on some threats. Leftovers is also a viable option if you wish to trade some power for bulkiness.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Choice
    move 1: Shadow Punch
    move 2: Mach Punch
    move 3: Ice Punch
    move 4: Power Whip
    item: Choice Band
    ability: Shed Skin
    nature: Adamant
    evs: 252 Hp / 252 Atk / 4 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]
    <p>Revenankh can also run a bulky Choice Band set effectively. In this case, Shadow Punch and Mach Punch are the main options, as the speed drop from Hammer Arm is undesirable. The STAB moves are unresisted, and type coverage is augmented by Ice Punch and Power Whip, covering almost every type for super-effective damage. This set requires a lot of prediction, but can easily annihilate its counters. What sets Revenankh's choice set apart from every other Fighting-type's choice set is Shed Skin, which prevents it from ever being permanently statused. Pursuit is an option to hit physically weak Psychic-types and Ghost-types while they switch out.</p>

    [Rest Vs. Moonlight]
    <p>On most of the tanking sets both Rest+Shed Skin and Moonlight+Air Lock are valid options. Both have their equal pros and cons. With Rest, Revenankh is protected from status and can heal 100% of it's HP instantly. It also has a 51% chance of waking up earlier than usual thanks to Shed Skin. Moonlight on the other hand has the benefit of not spending a possible two turns sitting there doing nothing, possibly giving the opponent an opportunity to set up on you. Air Lock also prevents Sandstorm or Hail from wearing you down. However, generally the protection from status is better than protection from weather due to leftovers healing off the damage from weather.</p>


    [Other Options]
    <p>Ice Punch and Mach Punch can be used on the Bulk Up set to hit a lot of Revenankh's counters. Sleep Talk can be used on any set that includes Rest, but with Shed Skin Revenankh has a 51% chance of waking up early so it won't see much use. Note that Shed Skin cures status at the end of a turn, however, so there is no chance of using Sleep Talk and wasting a turn due to waking up. Knock Off and Taunt are great utility moves which can be used to stop enemy tanks, stat-uppers and Choice users respectively. Substitute and Focus Punch can be used if you want an alternate way to protect yourself from status as well as a stronger Fighting attack, but it saps Revenankh of the HP it so dearly relies on. Drain Punch can be used to take advantage of the healing from Pokemon like Blissey, however it isn't very powerful. Revenankh has access to Nasty Plot, and attains a Special Attack stat of 508 after one.</p>


    [EVs]
    <p>When using Bulk Up, Special Defense and HP should be priorities when EVing. Careful, 252 HP EVs and 136 Special Defense EVs should provide you with adequate coverage. Max Attack can also be used to OHKO Gengar and Azelf with Shadow Sneak after a Bulk Up. On any other defensive set more EVs should be invested into defenses. Maximum HP should not be tampered with as it reaches optimal Leftovers recovery. 128 Atk EVs could be invested to 1HKO Blissey with Hammer Arm after a Bulk Up. Alternatively, Careful Revenankh needs 160 Spe EVs to outrun 4 Spe Blissey after a Hammer Arm, but Blissey isn't much of a threat to Revenankh. 44 Speed EVs can be invested to outspeed 0 EV Skarmory, which can be useful to Taunt it before it can set up, but Revenankh can't do much in return without Bulk Up. Offensive sets should just max HP and their attacking stat of choice.</p>


    [Opinion]
    <p>Revenankh is a very solid choice as a tank. Two excellent forms of healing, the best STABs in the game, and the ability to boost both its offense and it's defense at the same time with Bulk Up makes it a formidable opponent if not dealt with swiftly. If Revenankh is not carrying Bulk Up it is significantly less threatening in the long run, but short term could easily cripple most Pokemon with Knock Off or get an unexpected kill with Ice Punch or Power Whip. Choice sets have the ability to land a few surprise kills, but as with all Choice sets they require prediction to work effectively.</p>

    [Counters]
    <p>Because Revenankh is constantly boosting its physical defense with Bulk Up, some of its best checks and counters are special attackers. Togekiss is the best Revenankh check, because has STAB Air Slash to beat down Revenankh, and it doesn’t have to worry as much about 2HKOing Revenankh due to the flinch rate, though it also takes neutral damage from Hammer Arm and x2 damage while Roosting. Zapdos with Metal Sound will threaten a 2HKO on Revenankh with Thunderbolt after a Special Defense drop. Zapdos can also use HP Flying, although it will need a significant investment in Special Attack to ensure a 2HKO on a 252 HP/136 Special Defense Revenankh. Calm Mind Jirachi with Psychic can switch in on Revenankh with virtual impunity and threaten to set up and sweep. Offensive Celebi, Slowbro and Cresselia are similar, however they have to be more wary, as unlike Jirachi, Revenankh hits them super effective with its Ghost STAB.</p>

    <p>Some physical attackers can hit hard enough to bypass Revenankh’s defense boosts and force it out. Choice Band Staraptor is a serious threat to Revenankh, as it is immune to Shadow Sneak and will OHKO with Brave Bird even after a Bulk Up. Choice Band Metagross will easily 2HKO Revenankh with Zen Headbutt after a Bulk Up, and without one it will OHKO. Bulky Gyarados is one of the best switch-ins to Revenankh, as it has Intimidate to neutralize an Attack boost and has Taunt to stop it from setting up further. Salamence also has Intimidate, but DD Mence won’t fare as well without Taunt. Choice Band Salamence will always 2HKO Revenankh with Outrage after a Bulk Up. All Salamence variants should be careful of the rare Ice Punch.</p>

    <p>Some Pokemon can hinder Revenankh from sweeping through methods other than brute force. Any faster user of Trick can Trick a choice item onto Revenankh anywhere in the middle of its set up, and will severely cripple it's ability to sweep. Fidgit takes little damage from all of Revenankh’s attacks and can Encore Bulk Up, then either Whirlwind it out or let another Pokemon set up on it. Skarmory can come in and Whirlwind it away, or deal heavy damage with Swords Dance and Brave Bird. It also has the ability to Taunt, if need be, and if it doesn’t switch in on a Bulk Up, Brave Bird will 2HKO. Bulky Suicune can also set up on Revenankh and Roar it out, or attack its weaker Special Defense with powerful Surfs. Defensive Celebi doesn’t mind Shadow Sneak too much and can force Revenankh out with Perish Song.</p>
  2. cyberzero

    cyberzero
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    From experience, Togekiss is probably the best and most true counter for Revenankh. Immune to priority Shadow Sneak, survives after a Hammer Arm. Outspeeds it and can 2HKO back with Air Slash and it hits the defensive stat that isn't being boosted.

    Skarmory can 2HKO with Drill Peck and Brave Bird, can usually take two unboosted Hammer Arms and can Whirlwind away while it's asleep from Rest in case the boosts are too high to handle.
  3. Kamen Rider

    Kamen Rider

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    One suggestion for the counter section is to mention that defensive trick scarf or specs users can completly shut down the bulk up set. I have had my Cressalia consistantly mess it up because even a +1 attack shadow sneak SE fails to do 50% to it, so it can trick, recover the damage off and KO it with psychic.
  4. jagged_angel

    jagged_angel

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    Zapdos with HP Flying is not a bad switch in either but this, Togekiss and other Flying counters need to beware of Ice Punch and therefore cant switch in safely til they know the set.
  5. Lawman

    Lawman

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    Mach Punch/Shadow Punch should really be an option along side Hammer Arm/Shadow Sneak. Getting SE Priority over stuff like Tyranitar and Stratagem in and 3hkoing enemy Revenankh is definately worth having those two as options (C'mon at one time or another we have all gotten in a Revenankh vs. Revenankh stall war, or at least I did frequently).

    As far as counters go, Togekiss and Zapdos do nicely as jagged said, but fast trick users can fuck over revenankh pretty bad.

    And I have never seen Revenankh with Ice Punch I must add, so I can't say much there.
  6. tennisace

    tennisace another eggnog, please
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    I'll put it in the set comments, it doesn't deserve a slash imo.
  7. Lawman

    Lawman

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    That should suffice, ha. I have great success with it and I just didn't want it ignored :D
  8. cyberzero

    cyberzero
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    It's true that there is a chance of running into Ice Punch Revvy, but the chances of Ice Punch on it are VERY slim. Even if it does use it, it doesn't usually do threatening damage. Usually about 50%, if I recall correctly.
  9. tennisace

    tennisace another eggnog, please
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    9.4% of all Revenankh have Ice Punch. Togekiss and Zapdos are fine.
  10. eric the espeon

    eric the espeon maybe I just misunderstood
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    Ice Punch needs at the very least a good mention in Set Comments on the BU set. It lets it take out so many of the normal counters and hits harder than a neutral STAB Shadow Sneak. Loss of priority hurts but you can't 1KO much and with Gengar's drop in popularity the main target for SS is far rarer.

    The EVs I run on Revvy are 252 HP/68 Atk/188 SpD Careful
    This gives brilliant special defensiveness while retaining the ability to 1KO all stranded Stratagem (including the SubCM set). Maybe this could be listed as an alternative spread in the EVs section? There are quite a few functional spreads for Revvy..

    I think that Air Lock+Moonlight could be relegated to Other Options, with a decent explanation there. ShedRest has proven to be vastly superior under almost all circumstances

    Thanks tennis for stepping up and starting these threads. We've had enough time to try out the new Revvy and Any by now.
  11. jagged_angel

    jagged_angel

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    Lawman what EVs do you use on the Mach/Shadow Punch set? I imagine its pretty different since you can probably OHKO some important stuff with Mach Punch after 1/2 BUs right?
  12. zarator

    zarator Credits to Mos-Quitoxe for the cute sprite^^
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    The counters section must mention Trick. With the release of platinum, a lot of pokemon can shut up Rev tricking a choice scarf. Also, if you really die to the will of mentioning a bulky grass type, Torterra with Worry Seed+ Toxic and Pyroak with Leech Seed are better options than Venusaur and Vileplume.
    On a side note, the analysis talks about Jirachi, but from my experience, Metagross is a much more common answer, since CB Zen Headbutt hurts like hell from the mechanic spider.
  13. sbc

    sbc

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    I always run defence EVs on Rev to make sure DDtar's LO Crunch doesn't take too much out of it and to not be 2HKOed by Lucario's SD'd Crunch.

    ~300 SpDef is enough.

    Togekiss is not the best counter for Rev, it gets worn down by SR and eventually has to Roost at which point it gets nailed by Hammer Arm. Taunt Spiritomb is the best counter followed by Zapdos, Fidgit, Shaymin, Cresselia (especially with Trick), Celebi and Metagross in no particular order.

    Togekiss is quite easily taken down with some intelligent thinking.
  14. Lawman

    Lawman

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    I haven't done calculations for my EVs factoring in Bulk UP but here is what I use currently, which you might want to change if bulk up becomes more important to you:

    252 HP / 116 Atk / 136 Def / 4 Spe Impish

    Basically this spread allows 2HKOs on both bulky Tyranitar and Stratagem, whilst they can only 2 or even 3hko depending on the set. You get 275 Attack AND Defense from this spread, and I don't usually keep this Revenankh in on special threats unless i know i can resist stuff with him. Most of Rev's counters are special anyways so I don't bother leaving him in unless Mach Punch can ko.

    Edit: With stealth rock and two Bulk Ups it ohkos Strata with mach punch, but by that time you would have gotten a 2hko anyways. Same deal with Tar, but i will run calcs on other pokemon should you like.
  15. jagged_angel

    jagged_angel

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    Interestingly enough I KOed a Celebi that switched in after 1BU - I think SR was up as was Sand but Shadow Punch followed by Mach to finish her off was enough - that's pretty good I think. Gonna keep using my new Lawrev!

    Thanks for the EVs :-)
  16. Lawman

    Lawman

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    No problem mate, glad to see the EVs actually work for someone other than me. And lol @ "Lawrev"
  17. sbc

    sbc

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    I would be willing to do the analysis if you wish tennis.
  18. Beej

    Beej
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    Considering that x1 super effective Ice Punch has the same base power against Togekiss as STAB Hammer Arm, it probably wouldn't have much use against things other than Dragons and Gliscor. Zapdos is getting set up on unless it has Metal Sound or enough SpA to 2HKO it with HP Flying.

    However, I'd like to emphasize that Togekiss is relying upon its 60% Air Slash flinch rate when it comes in on Revenankh, which might not come twice in a row (considering it only 3HKOs without an investment in SpA) and after a Bulk Up, Revenankh Hammer Arm really hurts. It's also a problem that it can't Roost on Revenankh, because then Hammer Arm will become super effective.

    For this reason, I'd say that the best switch-ins to Revenankh are CB Metagross with Zen Headbutt and CM Jira. Metagross will be able to severely injure Revenankh even after a Bulk Up (73.96% - 87.50%), while Jirachi is hitting the unboostable SpD and setting up on it with ease.

    This is with the spread, 252 HP, 120 Def, 136 SpD.
  19. TPM

    TPM

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    Okay, I haven't really done much battle-ing but wouldn't Spiritomb make a decent counter? Immunity to Hammer Arm and neutrality to Shadow Sneak, plus SE STAB. Just asking?
  20. tennisace

    tennisace another eggnog, please
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    Bump, this is done now.
  21. sbc

    sbc

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    "Shadow Sneak is recommended in tandem with Hammer Arm, because the priority negates the speed drop somewhat. Shadow Sneak will easily OHKO Azelf and Gengar after a Bulk Up, and severly dent the Rotom Formes and other Revenankh."

    +1 Shadow Sneak
    vs 0 HP / 0 Def Gengar 78.16% - 92.72%
    vs 0 HP / 0 Def Azelf 62.54% - 74.23%
    vs Max HP / 120 Def Bold Rotom 34.21% - 41.45%
    vs Max HP / 120 Def Revenankh 34.38% - 40.63%

    Nitpicking :/
    Doesn't OHKO Gengar (although 30% chance after SR) or Azelf and Revenankh and Rotom formes aren't 2HKOed so maybe severely dent is an exaggeration.

    otherwise good job and as you say complete.
  22. tennisace

    tennisace another eggnog, please
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    I changed it to "a couple Bulk-Ups". Thanks for the catch. It still needs to be grammar checked, however Pyroak/Fidgit threads coming up!
  23. X-Trader

    X-Trader

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    Three Attacks:
    That fragment sounds a bit odd, and confusing. Mind clearing that up, as I don't really understand what you are trying to say.

    Choice:
    Also on Nasty Plot in Other Options, can you go a bit more in-depth on that? It doesn't really explain much of why you should use it or not... The sentence is also not a complete thought.

    Some changes, nothing really confusing in that, although you said adequate coverage when mentioning EVs instead of moves, and that threw me off a bit.

    lol, just a grammar nitpick :P

    Grammar nitpicks. Awesome job on the Analysis though, tennisace ;)

    (This was the grammar check since you referred to one in the above post...)
  24. tennisace

    tennisace another eggnog, please
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    Fixed, thanks.
  25. Lawman

    Lawman

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    Noting that during the mention of the Mach Punch / Shadow Punch set, it should say that you avoid that 2HKO from those pokemon due to priority rather than saying you are not 2HKO'd.
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