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BW Ubers Rock All!!

Discussion in 'RMT Archive' started by shrang, Jun 28, 2011.

  1. shrang

    shrang Defend the Headquarters of Revolution
    is a Contributor to Smogonis a Battle Server Moderatoris a Tiering Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2009
    Messages:
    4,292
    ROCK ALL

    [​IMG]

    So yeah, with firecape making the "Burn All" team and trickroom running "Drown All", you could see something like this coming from a mile away. Sandstorm has always been an excellent weather condition, and this is no exception in Ubers, it's just that Groudon and Kyogre are so damn dominant that it is a bit harder for Tyranitar and friends to compete. No matter, Tyranitar is still Uber Strongth and deserve to be placed among the greats of the Uber metagame. I was thinking of doing "Freeze All" as well, since I have a reasonable Hail team as well, but this team is better, so I'll showcase it. It is basically an ad for Uber Sand teams. It was originally a Dream World team, in which I altered it so it was legal on WiFi. Unlike Burn All and Drown All, this team does not focus on stacking hazards like pyramids on the opponent, but aims to remove them from my own side so my bulky attackers can come in again and again to apply pressure on the opponent and control the pace of the game. By the way, Burn All loses horribly to the Dream World version of this team as Latias and Chandelure get completely roflstomped by Tyranitar, while it can be a massive pest to Drown All if I get rid Giratina-O, possibly Lugia and Kyogre (I've had my fair share of wins). Incidentally, anyone notice that Burn All and Drown All are both heavily susceptible to Spikes themselves? Anyway, enough trashing well-made teams. Originally, the main focus of this team was Rock Arceus, but in the end, I got rid of it since I just had way too many Fighting and Ground weaknesses to be sustainable. Now, the main focus is to facilitate an Excadrill sweep, but that isn't usually how I win anyway. Basically, apart from Excadrill, this Sandstorm team can just be treated as a normal Ubers team that happens to have Sand in it. After the removal of Rock Arceus, the emphasis was less on Sand and more on plain bulky offense. This team got to #3, but like trickroom said, getting a high ladder spot means little in Ubers.

    Basically, the idea is to look at Team Preview and decide what would be the game winner. If I see weather (which is like on every team), I will keep Tyranitar as healthy as possible. If I see sun, I will make sure Stealth Rock is off my field because Ho-Oh is going to kick some major ass. Rain is a bit more annoying to deal with, but it normally involves me using Grass Arceus to scout for what kind of Kyogre they're running. If they're running bulky, slow Kyogre, Excadrill can just SD up and kill it. It they're running Choiced Kyogre, I would try and tank a hit or two with Grass Arceus, and hopefully catch it on Ice Beam or Thunder with Tyranitar, and move in for the Pursuit. The biggest flaw with this team is that sometimes, even when victory is around the corner, it can take AGES to finish a match (Say an opposing stall team has Lugia left and I have Excadrill and Giratina left, you know I'm going to win, but it can take ages simply because Lugia is a pain to take down). I really need Toxic on something just to quicken up those situations. This is not to say that this team has trouble with Stall. It doesn't, when their entry hazards are removed as soon as they go up, anyway. The nicknames are basically taken from names of Dragon Ball Kai's soundtrack, but I doubt anyone cares about that o_0.


    Team at a glance:
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Dream World version:
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    In detail:

    [​IMG]
    Ho-Oh @ Leftovers *** Braveheart
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 224 HP / 252 Atk / 32 Spe
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Sacred Fire
    - Brave Bird
    - Substitute
    - Recover

    I don't have a lead, because, you know, they are kind of obselete now. Ho-Oh just happened to be the last Pokemon to appear on my team. That aside, one might be surprised why I have Ho-Oh... on a Sandstorm team. The reason is simple, and that is because Ho-Oh is such a badass she can belong on pretty much any team and still kickass (okay, maybe Rain teams are a bit of a stretch, but she's still not bad in them). There are two main reasons why Ho-Oh is such a great Pokemon to use on this team. The first is that she literally takes a bird crap on Fighting Arceus, who would otherwise destroy most Sand teams. The second reason is that she can pretty much 6-0 some sun teams if I play her correctly. I mean, if you are running Dragon Tail on Groudon, you are in a world of pain when Ho-Oh switches in and completely wrecks your face. Ho-Oh makes Groudon a liability, and that is great because Groudon can switch in on Tyranitar just too freely. If I see a Groudon and a poorly made sun team, I won't even bother to bring in Tyranitar since Ho-Oh would just kill everything. For the record, run Roar on Groudon, otherwise Ho-Oh would completely annihilate you. Barry4ever knows what I mean. Dragon Tail fails to break Ho-Oh's Substitute, meaning it can just Sub in your face and proceed to destroy whatever you decide to use to break her Sub. I don't see that much point in running Dragon Tail, to be honest, simply because who the hell is going to have the guts to Taunt Groudon apart from Baton Pass Mew? Groudon isn't a weak piece of shit like Lugia, he doesn't need to use Dragon Tail to bypass Taunt. Roar can at least let you set up Stealth Rock and Roar away Ho-Oh regardless of Sub or not.

    Anyway, back to Ho-Oh, the moveset is just standard. 32 Speed lets her outspeed Adamant Tyranitar (although no-one uses him anyway) and stall out his Stone Edges. It also allows me to outspeed most uninvested base 90s, which is like, a lot of them. 252 Atk and Adamant is for FULU-PAWA, and the rest go into HP, allowing Ho-Oh to switch in twice to Stealth Rock. I didn't use Life Orb because this Ho-Oh is still primarily used to tank hits, and with Sandstorm raging, she is going to die just too quickly to recoil and it's not worth it. Substitute and Recover allows Ho-Oh to Pressure stall out Stone Edges and Spacial Rends and the like, while Sacred Fire and Brave Bird allows her to hit very, very hard. I chose Recover over Roost so Ho-Oh will be able to stall out Stone Edge from Groudon no matter what, and then recover the health without being susceptible to EQ later (Would kind of suck to stall out Stone Edge, Roost off the damage and then die immediately to EQ, right?).

    Ho-Oh is a key counter to Fighting Arceus, so it needs to be kept relatively healthy. Stealth Rock needs to removed at all costs. Fortunately for this team, removing entry hazards is a walk in the park. Between the two of Tyranitar and Excadrill, spin-blockers are taken out without much difficulty at all. Giratina-O that don't carry Aura Sphere or Earthquake are taken out handily by Pursuit (TTar can survive an unboosted Aura Sphere if need be and Crunch the thing anyway), while Ghost Arceus is handily OHKOed by +2 EQ from Excadrill after Stealth Rock. Giratina is also 2HKOed by +2 EQ, and even Will-O-Wisp cannot save it from getting removed by Excadrill, who would then Rapid Spin in the opponent's face.


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    Arceus-Grass @ Meadow Plate *** Heroic
    Trait: Multitype
    EVs: 252 HP / 144 SDef / 112 Spe
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Roar / Ice Beam
    - Grass Knot
    - Stealth Rock
    - Recover

    Grass Arceus is the glue and utility of this team, if you will. Originally, I ran Calm Mind Grass Arceus, but since I have Calm Mind Giratina on my team now, I don't really need CM Grass Arceus to take on mono Kyogre and Manaphy any more. Also, Gliscor pissed me off to no end, so I replaced Stealth Rock on Tyranitar for Ice Beam, meaning Arceus had to take up the mantle of setting up SR. Still, even without CM and coverage moves, Grass Arceus does just fine at checking Groudon and Kyogre and many other threats that bother my team. There really isn't much to say about Grass Arceus apart from the fact that it does what it's supposed to do.

    The EVs allow Arceus is outspeed Jolly Garchomp, meaning I could potentially Recover off any damage it decides to do to me before it does anything else. The rest of the EVs go into Special Defense to take attacks like Water Spout from Kyogre. With the current EVs, Kyogre has like a 3% chance of 2HKOing me with a fully powered Water Spout, so I'm willing to take that risk. Grass Knot is used since Manaphy isn't that much of a threat, and Grass Knot hurts pretty much everything else in Ubers for more damage anyway. It also has more PP. Stealth Rock is on Arceus since there is nothing else on my team that can run it, while Roar can get rid of annoying setup sweepers in a pinch, although Ice Beam lets me take out SD Rayquaza. Recover rounds off the set since Arceus is actually needed to come in and out and take hits.

    [​IMG]
    Hydreigon (M) @ Choice Scarf *** Shuddering
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SAtk / 252 Spe
    Hasty Nature (+Spd, -Def)
    - Draco Meteor
    - Fire Blast
    - Dark Pulse
    - U-turn

    This is glue number 2, the revenge killer for the team. I thought for a while which Pokemon I should use in this slot. Firstly, I wanted a Pokemon that could outspeed Dragon Dance Rayquaza, since Air Lock allows him to ignore the Sand and Excadrill's attempts to revenge kill it. I had a few options, which were Palkia, Jirachi, and Garchomp. I originally had Palkia, as he was a fantastic switch-in to Kyogre, but I hated how Spikes and Toxic Spikes he was. So with that in mind, Garchomp was quickly discarded as well, since he is an even bigger Spiker bait (Forretress, Skarmory, Ferrothorn all love to switch in on Outrage, and as put in the words of one battler, "All ScarfChomp does is sit there and jack off while they set up hazards"). Jirachi, on the other hand, was just way too weak for my taste. I briefly considered Flygon, but quickly dismissed for similar reasons. So then, after looking around the Pokedex for suitable replacements, I saw trickroom QC Scarf Hydreigon, and just seemed perfect. Here was a revenge-killer that could outspeed DD Ray, while not being a weak piece of shit, AND was not Spikes or Toxic Spikes weak. It doesn't end here, since he has that Dark-typing to troll Wobbuffet with. His power is still not what I want it to be, but 125 SpA is good enough to reap the benefits of running Hydreigon anyway. Not being able to revenge Salamence is unfortunate, but no-one runs Mence in Ubers these days and Excadrill is more than enough to revenge him anyway. Once Genesect comes out I may try him out, but Hydreigon is a great revenge killer in the Uber metagame, if you haven't tried it out yet, you should.

    Draco Meteor is obviously Hydreigon's most powerful attack to be used in revenge-killing purposes, taking out most Dragon-types that are found in Ubers. Fire Blast gives fantastic coverage, annihilating Pokemon like Scizor, Forretress, Skarmory, etc. Dark Pulse gives Hydreigon a move to revenge-kill Mewtwo with, who could pose a problem if Excadrill is gone. U-turn rounds out the set, allowing Hydreigon to keep the momentum for the team. The EVs are as simple as you can get, just your typical 4/252/252 spread. When Genesect is released I may try him out, but I really like the additional Ground resist/immunity.

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    Giratina @ Leftovers *** Destiny
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 252 HP / 248 Def / 8 Spe
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Calm Mind
    - Rest
    - Will-O-Wisp / Sleep Talk / Dragon Tail
    - Dragon Pulse

    To be honest, I really don't know why I have Giratina in this spot. It just seems to work. The only real reason I can think of is to counter those pesky Blazikens that would otherwise hurt my team quite badly, and to hurt ExtremeKiller Arceus enough so Excadrill can come in and revenge-kill it. It also provides a decent check to Calm Mind mono-Kyogre, since he resists Scald or Surf and can easily PP stall the leviathan to oblivion with Pressure, should Kyogre not get a lucky crit. Apart from this, Giratina is still very out of place on my team, even though right now, I can't find anything that does its job better. Giratina-O would have been more preferable, but it doesn't synergise well with Sandstorm since the thing has no recovery or any kind. Latias would be fucking perfect with Soul Dew was released =O. I've even tried Gyarados just to prove trickroom wrong when he was raving about it, and it actually pulled its own for a while until I was like "Why the fuck am I even doing this". I tested Jellicent lately as well, and didn't think it was that good, either. Any suggestion on what a good replacement might be would be highly appreciated.

    So when I finally decided to stick Giratina onto this team, a few things came up. 1) Giratina is the biggest stall-bait ever, since virtually every Spiker or Stealth Rock user can just come in and set up layers for free, time which Excadrill would have to spend spinning instead of sweeping. 2) It is rather weak. So I thought "you know what, I'll make those Forretress users regret that they try to set up layers on me by sweeping them instead". I seriously doubt any of you would even think about setting up layers if you were watching Giratina boost itself up in right front of you. Once Giratina has got to +2 or something, don't even think about taking it out unless you have a move called Perish Song, Haze, Trick or Ghost Curse. Something like Scarf Palkia's Spacial Rend does a pitiful 30.95% - 36.90%. Still, even with its massive defenses, RestTalk and Calm Mind, I haven't been able to showcase Giratina that much since it takes too long to setup and the other Pokemon get the job done anyway. I've replaced Sleep Talk with Will-O-Wisp as the main option so I can deal with Extremekiller Arceus better, but Dragon Tail is also an option since it lets me make sure I get rid of BP Mew. Giratina is more of a fall-back Pokemon.

    The EVs and moveset are as simple as you can think of. I put 8 Spe just to outspeed uninvested base 90s who may just put their last 4 EVs into Speed, and the rest go into HP and Defense to allow to tank some of the hardest hits. Calm Mind, Rest and Sleep Talk allows Giratina to heal its health and status, while Dragon Pulse is a fantastic mono-STAB to work with.

    [​IMG]
    Tyranitar (M) @ Leftovers *** A Mighty Foe
    Trait: Sand Stream
    EVs: 252 HP / 56 Atk / 200 SDef
    Brave Nature (+Atk, -Spd)
    - Pursuit
    - Crunch
    - Ice Beam
    - Low Kick

    This should probably be my lead, but it really doesn't matter since I get to change anyway. Tyranitar is Uber Strong! Apart from Water Spout and Aura Sphere, there is virtually no special attack that this beast cannot take. The given EVs allow Tyranitar to tank a +1 Aura Sphere from Life Orb-less Mewtwo, which shows how much of a monster this thing is. Basically, he is my all-round special sponge that unlike Blissey, can deal decent damage to the Pokemon that he is supposed to counter. Here are just some damage calculations to further cement Tyranitar's place in the Uber tier (in the Sandstorm, of course):

    Choice Scarf Palkia's Spacial Rend: 25.25% - 29.70%
    Modest unboosted Dialga's Dragon Pulse: 24.75% - 29.21%
    Unboosted Aura Sphere from Sub/CM Giratina-O: 54.46% - 64.36%

    One-on-one, Tyranitar can defeat all of them. Tyranitar can easily Pursuit fleeing Palkias or Giratina-O's, as well as stuff like Scarf Kyogre trapped into Ice Beam or Thunder. Crunch is Tyranitar's most reliable STAB attack and can do huge amounts of damage to stuff like Giratina-O who decide to stay in. With Giratina-O removed, Excadrill can use Rapid Spin or even sweep without much trouble at all. Crunch even allows Tyranitar to defeat Lugia variants that don't carry Reflect (see trickroom). Basically, Crunch does ~50%, so it can repeatedly pound Lugia as it Roosts until it gets a Defense drop. Realising that it cannot stay in with the Defense drop, Lugia will attempt to flee, only to be molested by Pursuit. If this was Dream World Ubers, then Tyranitar would be even more of a beast, with stuff like Chandelure and the Lati twins to gobble up, but let's not get too ahead of ourselves. I originally had Stealth Rock on Tyranitar, but after getting my ass totally handed to me by Gliscor, I decided to stick Ice Beam just to lure it in and remove it forever. It can also deal SOME damage to Garchomp that think they can switch in for free, assuming that Tyranitar decides to hit (Sand Veil is such a bastard). Low Kick rounds out the set, allowing Tyranitar to 2HKO Dialga (that don't run Bulk Up) and Heatran, both are utterless helpless against the tyrant. It can also deal some nice damage to Ferrothorn, although I do have better methods against that thing. Leftovers is to help it live longer, obviously.</p>

    [​IMG]
    Excadrill (F) @ Life Orb *** Fierce
    Trait: Sand Rush
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Swords Dance
    - Earthquake
    - Rock Slide
    - Rapid Spin

    So, we come to the main event! In a Sandstorm, this thing has a blistering 550 Speed, and after a Swords Dance, 810 Attack. Excadrill is almost the ideal sweeper. However, like every Pokemon in the team, it can also play a supporting role by using Rapid Spin. Like I said in Ho-Oh's description, between Excadrill and Tyranitar, they can remove pretty much every spin-blocker without much trouble, the only one that may survive is Giratina, whom after SR and Sandstorm is very likely to be 2HKOed by +2 Earthquake even if he pulls off the burn. Excadrill can then proceed to use Rapid Spin to tear down the hard work of any stall team, as well as letting Ho-Oh in for free. Excadrill + Ho-Oh is such an epic combo. Excadrill is also so the revenge killer to go to if Hydreigon can't kill whatever threat it is (Hydreigon can come off a bit weak sometimes). It outspeeds stuff like Mewtwo, Darkrai and others and does huge amounts to ExtremeKiller Arceus all the while taking a +2 Extremespeed. Basically, I will look at your team and decide on how to remove your weather inducers. Groudon can't take hits forever from this thing, but I will be quite careful playing around the sun-inducing bastard. If I know Groudon is coming in, I'll probably just spin away rocks then go straight to Ho-Oh, and if your Groudon is carrying Dragon Tail, you know the horrors that will ensue. For Kyogres, I'll scout out your set. If it's bulky, I'll just SD up and OHKO you. If it's fast (usually Choiced), I'll lure you into Ice Beam or Thunder and then Pursuit you with Tyranitar. If it's something annoying like CM + 3 Attacks, I'll wind you down with Grass Arceus. In short, Excadrill doesn't always sweep, but when it does, watch out.

    The moveset is very simple. Adamant nature and max Attack for maximum power (I used Jolly for a while, but Adamant always OHKOs Ghost Arceus with +2 EQ, so that's staying). Max Speed is so it doesn't get outsped by stuff that's not supposed to outspeed it as well as beating most Base 90s that don't invest in Speed. Swords Dance, Earthquake and Rock Slide are attacks seen on pretty much every Excadrill. I used Shadow Claw for a while to kill Giratina-O when I then realised "why am I bothering when Tyranitar kills pretty much every Giratina-O anyway". Rapid Spin is used so Ho-Oh and others have more switching around time.


    So yeah, that's the team. I really can't bothered with a Team Building process, I've done enough writing, sorry.
  2. shrang

    shrang Defend the Headquarters of Revolution
    is a Contributor to Smogonis a Battle Server Moderatoris a Tiering Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2009
    Messages:
    4,292
    Threat list:

    Ubers:

    Again, like usual, Black = Normal, Orange = Annoying, Red = Danger. Basically, I followed Jibaku and trickroom's format, and even responded to some of trickroom's threat list entries. I do not ever want to do something as long as this again (next I'm C/Ping this).

    Arceus: I hate you for the amount of writing you forced me to do.

    Show Hide
    Swords Dance variants:
    Extremekiller: Checked between Giratina (WoW) and Excadrill, while the Sand cuts down its sweeping time.
    Ground: Grass Arceus laughs at the poor thing.
    Rock: Excadrill outspeeds and can easily revenge kill it.
    Ghost: Hydreigon does a lot of damage to it with Dark Pulse, while Excadrill can move in and finish it off easily.
    Dragon: Hydreigon revenge-kills with Draco Meteor, while Excadrill can finish off weakened ones.
    Water: Grass Arceus laughs at the poor thing.
    Steel: Does anyone even use this thing? Excadrill destroys with no trouble at all. Ho-Oh laughs at those that don't carry Stone Edge.

    Calm Mind variants:

    Steel: Excadrill revenges this easily. Tyranitar can Low Kick it. Ho-Oh laughs at it.
    Grass: Ho-Oh walls this bum. Giratina can Calm Mind alongside it if it isn't too heavily invested in SpA.
    Fighting: Ho-Oh is my main check, so if it goes down, I'm in for a bit trouble.
    Rock: Excadrill revenge kills it without much trouble. Grass Arceus can Grass Knot it, or can Roar it out.
    Ghost: Ho-Oh can take it on if SR isn't up. Hydreigon does decent damage to it with Dark Pulse, while Excadrill can revenge weakened ones. Tyranitar can even take a +1 Focus Blast from 4 SpA Ghost Arceus if SR isn't up and Tyranitar is at full health and do huge damage with Crunch.
    Electric: Can't do crap to Tyranitar, while Crunch will drop its Defense eventually. Excadrill revenges it easily. Grass Arceus can Roar it out.
    Dark: Mono-attacking ones are walled to hell and back with Tyranitar. Ho-Oh checks most Dark Arceus anyway.
    Poison: Excadrill revenges it, Ho-Oh can deal with it pretty easily if SR isn't up.
    Ice: Ho-Oh laughs at this bum, as does Tyranitar if it lacks Focus Blast.
    Water: Can be trouble, but Grass Arceus and Giratina working together can check them enough so Excadrill can finish it off.
    Fire: Tyranitar and Ho-Oh laugh at this fool. Giratina can Calm Mind alongside ones that don't carry Spacial Rend. Excadrill can easily revenge.

    Supporters:
    Normal Wall: As long as you don't carry something random like Reflect + WoW, Excadrill will set up SDs on it for free. Ones with WoW are dealt with by Ho-Oh.
    Ghost: Excadrill OHKOs at +2, won't find Tyranitar and Ho-Oh fun to face either.
    Grass: Ho-Oh sits on this thing's ass like a chair. Giratina can set up CM on it.
    Steel: See Grass Arceus, although replace Giratina and CM with Excadrill and SD.
    Poison: See Steel Arceus.



    Darkrai: Can be annoying with Sleep, but is EASILY revenged.

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    NP: Ho-Oh laughs at this fool. Excadrill and Hydreigon can revenge it easily.
    Trick: Can be annoying, but Hydreigon can take Trick easily.
    SD: Whose idea was this? Probably one of the most fail-filled sets I have EVER seen. You know your set fails if Giratina (Something that is WEAK to you) can set up CM all over your face. Excadrill revenges easily. Ho-Oh sets up a Sub as your Sucker Punch then turns Darkrai into Dark-because-it's-fucking-roasted-rai.


    Dialga: Tyranitar is the general switch-in to most Dialga, while Excadrill can take out pretty much every version.

    Show Hide
    Mixed: Tyranitar is generally the initial switch into all Dialga. Low Kick does a ton to pretty much every Dialga. Excadrill can switch into weakened DMs and such.
    Special Choice: Again, Tyranitar is the main switch-in. Ho-Oh can take on Dragon Pulse and weakened DMs. Excadrill can set up on stuff like Scarf Dragon Pulse and Thunder.
    Physical Choice: Can get annoying, but Dragon attacks are usually set up on by Excadrill while Giratina takes everything else.
    Bulk Up: Excadrill SDs up alongside BU Dialga and take it out with Earthquake. Grass Arceus is Roar out Dragon Tail variants. Ho-Oh can burn it with Sacred Fire to force it to sleep.
    Trick Room: Tyranitar goes "LOL I OUTSPEED YOU, BAM LOW KICK".


    Giratina-A: And now I play the waiting game o_0

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    Wall: Annoying since I have no quick way of killing it, but really isn't much of a threat anyway. Giratina can set up Calm Mind on it or just hit it repeatedly with Dragon Pulse, while Ho-Oh takes little from pretty much everything it does.
    Calm Mind RestTalk: Tyranitar makes this pay.


    Giratina-O: Hello, my name is Sandstorm. Can you hold Leftovers? What's that? You can't hold Leftovers? Aw... Poor boo boo.

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    Mixed: Tyranitar does unsavoury stuff to most of these. Either a choice between Crunch and Pursuit, usually.
    SubCM: Won't last long at all with Sandstorm around. Ho-Oh can take on most of these without much problem at all.
    Mono-attacker: Tyranitar Crunches this thing to hell, or Pursuits it on its way out.
    Physical: Does anyone use this any more? Shadow Force gets Stalled out by Sub. Hydreigon jams it with Dark Pulse.


    Groudon: Annoying piece of crap but can easily be played around.

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    Support: Ho-Oh turns this thing into a liability, unless you're smart and run Roar. Nonetheless, Sacred Fire burns this thing and makes sure it can't switch in over and over. Grass Arceus walls this and Grass Knots it to oblivion. +2 Excadrill can take it out around 60%ish.
    Rock Polish: Grass Arceus laughs at this bum.
    CB: With two Ground resists and a Grass Arceus, this thing isn't doing much at all.
    Paradancer: Thunder Wave in an annoying bastard, but Grass Arceus can take most things from Groudon and Grass Knot it to oblivion. Ho-Oh can come in on anything not named Stone Edge and use Sub to stall out Stone Edge all the while avoiding Thunder Wave.


    Ho-Oh: Can be annoying if played correctly, but generally is not much of a threat.

    Show Hide

    SubRoost: Tyranitar resists both Sacred Fire and Brave Bird, although Sacred Fire burns are annoying. LO versions are whittled down really quickly with Sandstorm, while Giratina can easily take on Leftovers versions, all the while setting up CM and RestTalking it off.
    Flame Charge: Again, Tyranitar resists both STABs and having EQ over Roost would mean Ho-Oh dies even faster than Solar Power Charizard. Excadrill easily revenge kills Ho-Oh.
    Choice Scarf: Too weak, SR weak, not fast enough. Scarf Ho-Oh sucks.
    Toxic Staller: This thing could potentially be really deadly, I really need to try out. Anyway, Giratina takes little from Ho-Oh's attacks while Toxic is foiled by Rest.


    Kyogre: I want Soul Dew Latias back. I really do. She would solve all of my problems.

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    Choice: Grass Arceus is always the initial switch-in. If it did >60% with Water Spout, then its Specs, if less, then it's Scarfed. Grass Arceus is EV'd to avoid being 2HKOed by Scarf Water Spout >97% of the time, so it's pretty safe. I'd try to bait it into Ice Beam or Thunder so Tyranitar can Pursuit it.
    Mono-attacking Calm Minder: Grass Arceus can Roar it away while Giratina can setup alongside and stall it out (bar crits) with Pressure.
    Thunder Wave: Annoying fucker, but Grass Arceus is still the switch-in of choice.
    Sub/CM: Grass Arceus can Roar it out or use Grass Knot to cut it down. If it lacks Ice Beam, Grass Arceus walls it and Giratina can setup alongside it.
    CM + 3 Attacks: Grass Arceus is again, the best switch-in, but it is really annoying. Grass Knot does a bunch, I'd generally Grass Knot it a few times then Roar it out or finish it off with Excadrill or something.
    ChestoRest: See Sub/CM
    Bait: Does anyone even use this? Grass Arceus still checks it very nicely.


    Lugia: Like Giratina, I shall play the waiting game o_0

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    Great Wall: Really not much I can do to it apart from possibly burning it with Sacred Fire, otherwise I'd whittle it down eventually since it really can't do much to me. If it lacks Reflect, Tyranitar can continue Crunching it for Defense drops, then I'd go for Pursuit.
    Calm Mind: Tyranitar makes this his bitch. Giratina can Calm Mind alongside it.


    Manaphy: Get rid of rain, and he's all good.

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    Tail Glow: Actually quite a bastard since I have nothing that can OHKO it, and +3 *insert attack here* will OHKO something. Still, combination of Hydreigon and Excadrill revenge-kills it.
    Calm Mind: More manageable. In the Sand, Giratina can Calm Mind alongside it, Arceus can Roar it out.



    Mewtwo: Strongth

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    Psycho Killer: Excadrill and Hydreigon are generally how I revenge this. Usually requires a bit of playing around, but nothing I can't manage.
    Stall: Ho-Oh sits there and takes a fiery dump on it.
    Dual Screens: *shrugs* Nothing I can really do about it, I guess, although Excadrill can just set up SD on it.



    Palkia: Very versatile. Grass Arceus is generally my first switch-in.

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    Choice Scarf/Specially Based Mixed: Tyranitar can take pretty much everything, even Surf and unboosted Aqua Tail and Crunch it for a lot of damage. Grass Arceus doesn't mind this thing much either. Ho-Oh can stall out Palkia that isn't using Surf (even Surf can be stalled out if it's sunny).
    Choice Specs: Grass Arceus can take pretty much everything and Recover stall it. Hydro Pump will miss eventually, while Draco Meteor will weaken itself out. Fire Blast will probably kill Arceus if it's not raining, but Tyranitar will then get a free Pursuit.
    Physically Based Mixed: Grass Arceus again, and Fire Blast without investment doesn't do much.
    SubPunch: Random, random set. Grass Arceus again checks it nicely.


    Rayquaza: Is there any reason to use this now? I mean, I'd rather use Arceus as an SDer, while I'd still use Mence for DD. Maybe I'm old-fashioned. It could actually cause me quite a bit of problems, but most people run DRAGON DANCE for some reason, and that's probably his worst o_0.

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    Dragon Dance: Revenged cleanly by Hydreigon. Can be trouble with him gone though o_0
    Swords Dance: Actually quite a bit trouble if I let it set up now, actually, since I took Ice Beam off Arceus. However, it's not like he's setting up easily anyway, not that I'll let him.
    Mixed: Tyranitar can take Draco Meteor no.1 (not too well, due to Air Lock), while the team can handle him after that. Probably still reason to use Ray, but whatever.


    Reshiram: Dangerous to pretty much all Ubers teams, should be used more.

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    Choice: Tyranitar can switch into most attacks bar Specs Draco Meteor. It's not getting many free switch-ins anyway.
    Flame Charge: Revenged by Hydreigon and Excadrill, anyone? Ho-Oh can also take Flame Charge without many issues either.


    Zekrom: Strongth. Grass Arceus take care of most of them. Excadrill revenges all.

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    Choice: Bolt Strike = Excadrill setup fodder. Grass Arceus can take pretty much everything apart from CB Outrage and Recover it off.
    Hone Claws: A bad set if I ever saw one. CB Bolt Strike nearly 2HKOs Ferrothorn anyway. Grass Arceus just Roars it out.
    Mixed: Grass Arceus, still. Excadrill again, resists both STABs and revenges it easily.



    Blaziken: "But Blaziken without Speed Boost is UU." SHUT UP.

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    SD: Giratina walls it. Excadrill can revenge at +1, or +2 if it's Adamant.



    Non-Ubers:

    Blissey: I still like Blissey over Chansey. Chansey can go piss off.

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    Ubers Wish: Excadrill setup fodder. Giratina setup fodder. Ho-Oh Sub fodder.
    Ubers Calm Mind: See Wish, apart from the "Giratina bit", although Giratina can STILL Pressure stall the fat nurse.



    Chansey: I actually keep these things alive because of how harmless they are.

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    Standard: See Blissey.



    Cloyster: I have a Freeze All team, just no Cloyster.

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    Shell Smash: Excadrill can revenge in Sand. Funnily enough, Giratina at full health may avoid being OHKOed by +2 Icicle Spear. Beast. Can hardly setup, like ever.



    Deoxys-D: This thing shouldn't be UU, but it's pretty shitty in Ubers.

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    Utility: Excadrill setup fodder. Tyranitar is not kind to it. Ho-Oh Sub fodder. Giratina setup fodder. Hydreigon Dark Pulse does a lot too.
    Cosmic Power: I wish I had more Toxic users. Can burn with Sacred Fire, then Roar it out with Grass Arceus. Can also setup on it with Excadrill.



    Deoxys-S: This thing is cool. Suicide leads haven't died just yet, especially when no-one prepares for them any more.

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    Standard lead: Tyranitar OHKOs with Crunch even with Focus Sash
    Choice Scarf: Tyranitar still OHKOs with Crunch.
    Mixed attacker: Weak. Weak. Weak. Don't need anything else to say.



    Excadrill: This thing is so cool.

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    SD: If it's running Jolly, it can 6-0 me if I'm not careful, even those retarded Jolly Balloon ones. Grass Arceus can take a hit from and Roar it out. Otherwise, I just better not let it set up, which it finds pretty hard to do anyway.



    Dugtrio: Duggy is my pet.

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    Claw Sharpen: Do you see any Electric attacks on this team?
    Trapper: Can't trap anything useful, actually, unless you've Wobb'd my Tyranitar down to -something, then we'll talk.



    Whimsicott: Overrated thing. Jumpluff FTW.

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    SubSeeder: Grass Arceus sits there and twiddles his pawthumbs.



    Ferrothorn: Eh rape monster.

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    Standard: Ho-Oh gets free switch-ins so long as I'm not stupid enough to come in on Thunder Wave, Toxic or Leech Seed. Grass Arceus can take everything it uses, but really can't do much to it. Excadrill can OHKO at +2, Hydreigon can also OHKO with Fire Blast. Spikes are usually spun away quite easily with Excadrill.
    CB: Does anyone use this? It's cool and all, but after the surprise is gone, it kind of sucks. Ho-Oh OHKOs with Sacred Fire, Hydreigon with Fire Blast, and Excadrill can kill with Earthquake without much trouble.



    Forretress: This thing is infinitely better than Forrethorn, I swear to God.

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    Standard: Excadrill Rapid Spins away Spikes and sets up SD. Ho-Oh switches in for free. Hydreigon OHKOs with Fire Blast. Giratina sets up CMs for free.



    Heatran: The tyrant destroys this son of a mother

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    Stallbreaker: Try Taunting Tyranitar. I dare you. Excadrill OHKOs with EQ. Heatran can't take Brave Birds forever either.
    Choice: Tyranitar switches in for free again. Ho-Oh now walls it. Giratina can set up CM on anything not named Dragon Pulse.



    Garchomp: Great, now that it's kicked upstairs, it will play the "I dodge for free" game with me.

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    Scarf: Excadrill can set up SD on Dragon attacks. Grass Arceus doesn't mind taking hits from this thing either.
    CB: Grass Arceus can take a hit or two and Recover, all the while Grass Knotting it for damage. Hydreigon revenges it, so long as I don't miss. Excadrill can also revenge non-EQ locked Chomps.
    SD: Hydreigon revenges it, Grass Arceus Grass Knots it for damage.
    Sub/SD: Get out.



    Heracross: I'm getting sick of this threat list now.

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    Choice: Giratina walls this thing to death. Ho-Oh walls this thing to death so long as she avoids Stone Edge. Hydreigon outspeeds and OHKOs with Fire Blast.



    Jirachi: Get out.

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    Wish: Excadrill sets up for free unless you run Body Slam, in which I will if it paralyses (and it always does). Ho-Oh walls this thing to death. So does Giratina.
    Scarf: Excadrill sets up for free. Ho-Oh and Giratina walls so long as I don't switch into Trick.
    Sub-Paraflinch: Get out. Excadrill sets up for free if it isn't running Body Slam. Giratina walls unless you get like a 10 hit flinch streak, in which case you just ran out of Iron Head anyway.



    Kingdra: Don't listen to trickroom. Kingdra is beast.

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    Dragon Dance: Grass Arceus doesn't take much from it, while Tyranitar wipes out the Rain. Hydreigon outspeeds without the rain, while Excadrill outspeeds in the Sand, too.
    Special Attacker: See Dragon Dance



    Hydreigon: This is a cool Poke
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    Scarf: Tyranitar can take pretty much everything. Excadrill can set up on -2 Draco Meteor. Ho-Oh doesn't take much either.



    Scizor: Scizor is sad in a Lati-less metagame. So am I.
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    CB: Ho-Oh takes everything. Giratina takes everything.
    Specially Defensive: See CB. Excadrill can set up on Fighting-move-less Scizor.
    SD: Ho-Oh takes everything.



    Skarmory: More annoying Spikers.

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    Spiker: Hydreigon scares it out, Ho-Oh threatens it with Sacred Fire, while Excadrill can spin away hazards.



    Terrakion: This thing is cool. Do not know why it gets so little usage.

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    Scarf: Giratina takes pretty much everything Terrakion uses. Excadrill outspeeds in the sand. Grass Arceus can tank a hit or two.
    CB: Giratina again. If locked into Stone Edge, Excadrill can setup on it.
    RP/SD: Grass Arceus can take it if it used RP, while SD is revenged by Excadrill. Giratina is not a bad switch, either.



    Tyranitar: Tyranitar is Uber strong!

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    Tank: Not very threatening on anything apart from Giratina, and even then, Pursuit won't kill anything.
    CB: Grass Arceus takes pretty much everything and Grass Knots it, Excadrill can switch into Stone Edge, Tyranitar can Low Kick if it isn't locked into a Fighting attack.
    Scarf: Can surprise Ho-Oh, I guess, but other than that, this thing is weak sauce.
    Dragon Dance: Excadrill revenge-kills it, Grass Arceus avoids being OHKOed and does a lot with Grass Knot.



    Ludicolo: Ludicolo is ludicrous... ludicrously crap.

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    Leech Seed: No rain to help it stall for a long time. In fact, Sandstorm cuts it off pretty badly. Ho-Oh can even Sub up on it to avoid Leech Seed and then proceed to destroy it. Tyranitar will just continue Crunching it, Hydreigon doesn't particularly mind it, while Excadrill even has Rapid Spin to get rid of Leech Seed. Can't do anything to Grass Arceus either.
    Rain attacker: Weakling. Hydreigon outspeeds it even in the rain (Modest nature, Timid ones are even weaker). Tyranitar removes the rain and doesn't can take a Surf or Grass attack. Grass Arceus Roars it away. Giratina doesn't take THAT much from Ice Beam either.



    Mew: People have forgotten the beast that is Mew. BP Mew > Gorebyss.

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    Baton Pass: Can get very threatening under Dual Screens. Grass Arceus is my only phazer, and he's completely trashed by Taunt. Maybe I should use Dragon Tail on Giratina for phazors o_0.



    Victini: One cute nuke

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    Choice: Tyranitar can come in on pretty much everything apart from Brick Break and Pursuit it to oblivion. Giratina walls this flat if it isn't sunny.
    Trick Room: Without the initial V-Create, Tyranitar outspeeds and lols at it with Crunch. Giratina walls it regardless.



    Wobbuffet: WobbTrio = Domination

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    Standard: Can't really trap anything of importance, but can Encore turns for an opposing sweeper, I guess. Can't revenge Hydreigon either because of its Dark typing.



    Bronzong: lol

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    Dual screens: Ho-Oh sets up a Sub in its face. Giratina can Calm Mind up. Hydreigon Fire Blasts it.
    Trick Room: Again, Ho-Oh walls its face, Giratina shrugs off everything it uses.



    Cresselia: RU a bit harsh, no?

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    Great Wall: Again, the lack of Toxic hurts, but Cresselia really can't do much. Tyranitar makes it very, very sad. Ho-Oh can Sub up on it, Hydreigon can jam it with Dark Pulse
    Dual Screens: Dual Screen Lunar Dance makes me very sad, but Tyranitar makes it sad once again. Ho-Oh can Sub up, Hydreigon Dark Pulses it.
    Trick Room: Hey look, Tyranitar outspeeds Trick Roomers again!



    Metagross: This thing is so cool. If it still had a good boom, I'd still use it.

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    Choice: Ho-Oh walls it pretty hard. So does Giratina.
    AgiliGross: See Choice. Revenged by Excadrill
    Dual Screens: I hate Dual Screen users. Excadrill can put a stop it fairly quickly, I guess.
    Lead: Excadrill deals with it. Ho-Oh and Giratina walls it.



    Kabutops: Again, don't listen to trickroom. +1 Stone Edge still OHKOs the ridiculous sea dragon.

    Show Hide
    SD: Get rid of the rain with Tyranitar. Grass Arceus can take most attacks from Kabutops while Grass Knotting it oblivion.
    CB: Again, without the rain, it kind of sucks. Grass Arceus again. Excadrill can set up on Stone Edge.



    Qwilfish: This is MY baby.

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    SD: Keep the rain away. Giratina walls it without much effort.
    Spiker: A bit more annoying as it forces you to predict Destiny Bond. Spikes can be spun away, while Tyranitar removes the rain. Giratina walls it.



    Shedinja: Does anyone still use this?

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    Standard: Tyranitar switched in! Shedinja fainted! End of story?



    Parasect: I agree. ParaSUCK.

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    Standard: Sand removes the rain for Dry Skin. Ho-Oh sets up a Sub on it without any trouble and smoulders it with Sacred Fire.



    Magnezone: Good luck trapping Excadrill.

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    Choice: Excadrill can set up on Thunder, Giratina walls it, Arceus walls it.
    SubCharge: Useless. Utterly useless.



    Froslass: She is actually really underrated.

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    Spiker: Spikes will get removed. Eventually. Tyranitar limits her to one layer since Sandstorm bypasses Focus Sash.


    Roserade: Has an interesting niche, but whatever.

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    Spiker: Tyranitar makes her pretty sad. Ho-Oh sets up a Sub in her face.



    Gliscor: This thing has got to be the most annoying piece of shit that has ever lived. If I'm using this team and I see a Gliscor on your team from Team Preview, expect me to either 1) Forfeit immediately or 2) Kick you from the server =D.

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    SubRoost: Well, since I'm either forfeitting or kicking you, there's no reason for me to write up a strategy for this thing, is there? /jk In all seriousness, I'll lure it out as soon as possible and Ice Beam it with Tyranitar. Grass Arceus does a decent job too, but Toxic is annoying.



    Armaldo: This thing with Swift Swim is really good. Try it out.

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    SD: Get rid of the rain as soon as possible. Giratina can hold it off reasonably well, while Hydreigon outspeeds even in the rain.



    Kyurem: FREEZE ALL! Yeah, this thing going down to BL is ridiculous, it is easily Uber material.

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    Blizzspam: Get rid of Hail. Hydreigon outspeeds all variants. Ho-Oh can take a hit or two if SR isn't up and it isn't carrying Specs.
    Mixed: Eww. Go use Palkia instead. Again, get rid of Hail. Hydreigon outspeeds all variants.



    Gyarados: No comment

    Show Hide
    DD: No comment
    Taunt: No comment
  3. calze6

    calze6

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    Stone all is a better title since stone can be a verb :) How does extremekiller arceus get walled by a giratina without wow or roar!? Surely you need it to have the wall set. It seems a waste of a pokemon by sacking a wall and then still struggle to beat arceus. Willowisp on arceus can also help too. You may want SE on ttar as I see that ho-oh can give this team a headache if it subs on your drill.
  4. Tobes

    Tobes Woo-hoo, woo-hoo, woo-hoo-hoo!
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    I like this team a lot, but I do need to note the weakness to CM Fighting Arceus. Once Ho-oh is dead you don't have much that can reliably check it. Definitely use Roar on Grassceus (who the fuck even uses SD Ray anymore? 9.9) so that you have one more option for dealing with it. I'd also suggest Roar / Dragon Tail over CM on Giratina but I've never seen CM Restalk in action so I'm not too good of a judge on what it does for you.
  5. waterwarrior

    waterwarrior

    Joined:
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    -There is no reason to use Serperior in Ubers. 75% of the common pokes resist Grass moves, its not much of a problem. Ho-Oh, however, is just plain amazing.
    -Why run Grass Knot on Arceus? If you're holding a Meadow Plate, Judgement will be as strong as Grass Knot could be. I suppose PP, but there's just the significant change in power to consider.
    -Tyrannitar has to compete with Kyogre and Groudon. And trust me, he will lose.
    -Excadrill will become useless once the Kyogre/Groudon inevitably wins.
    -Also, your team lacks a fire move past Sacrad Fire. If Ho-Oh faints, the entire team gets walled by Ferrothorn, who isn't all that rare in Ubers.
  6. shrang

    shrang Defend the Headquarters of Revolution
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    Yeah, you're right. My original plan was to Dragon Pulse Arceus down to low enough health so Excadrill can come in and revenge kill it, but it would kind of fail if the Arceus user just uses SD again if they see that I have no WoW. I'll slash Will-O-Wisp next to Sleep Talk, since Giratina doesn't always need it anyway, and WoW can cripple things like opposing Tyranitar. As for Stone Edge on Tyranitar, I have no idea what I want to get rid of for it. I just hate Gliscor TOO much to not have Ice Beam on it.

    Thanks for the rate, Rock can be used as a verb too (You know, rock as in rock music and "rocking"). =D

    Yeah, Fighting Arceus is an annoying piece of shit, as it always is for Sand teams. There really isn't much I can do about it if Ho-Oh dies without completely dismantling the team, though. I have tried many, many options o_0. Thanks for the rate.
  7. trickroom

    trickroom
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    Hi, this is a pretty good team imo.

    I don't think you are troubled much by Excadrill at all. Hydreigon, Giratina and Grass Arceus can all beat it in some sort of way. Grass Arceus can Roar it out, Hydreigon doesn't take too much from Rock Slide, while Giratina is generally a safe switch in, especially when Excadrill is using a Jolly nature.

    Forget about Fighting Arceus, you have Giratina to rape it too. Just Calm Mind alongside it and win in the end thanks to Pressure, Leftovers and more bulk. Alternatively, if you have Dragon Tail, just keep phazing it out or burn it. Burn + Sand damage will quickly wear Fighting Arceus down. Your own Excadrill allows you to revenge Fighting Arceus below ~52% health so it won't be that hard.

    I think you have to be wary of the occasional SD Dragon Arceus which will tear up the team when Hydreigon is weakened. Ghost Arceus can be a dick to your team especially bold nature ones. Your best bet is Ho-Oh but you have to be wary of Stealth Rock.

    What the? What happened to Gyarados in the threat list? What do you mean by no comment? Gyarados actually owns Tyranitar, Ho-Oh and beats Giratina if you lack Will-O-Wisp. Grass Arceus is OHKOed by +1 Bounce after sand damage :P

    I think Giratina is pretty much useless on your team besides acting as a check to Arceus, Ho-Oh and opposing Excadrill. It slows down your momentum and the Calm Mind set doesn't even sweep stall teams that easily. Giratina does give you another check to Fighting Arceus and Ground Arceus though, both potentially devastating to your team.

    The reason to use Dragon Tail Groudon is to hit Rayquaza hard when you are using a Fire attack over Stone Edge. It gives Groudon an ability to hit Giratina-O decently hard as well and phaze at the same time. It's still by no means useless. In fact I think Groudon's should use Dragon Tail more than Lugia should. Lugia is already that weak so that little damage caused doesn't even matter while Groudon's Dragon Tail can do some damage on the right things such as Palkia. Seriously who uses Taunt in Ubers now? Heatran? Thundurus? Lugia isn't coming in on Thundurus. Lugia will generally be switching out against Heatran due to Toxic unless Lugia has Earthquake. Thundurus sucks mid game as a Taunt user.

    Good luck with it and Kabutops still sucks. Even Gastrodon walls it to death.
  8. Jibaku

    Jibaku Not taking FS requests atm.
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    Iunno trickroom. Excadrill sets up all over Giratina if it lacks Will-o-Wisp or Dragon Tail, while Hydreigon falls to +2 LO Rock Slide after SR and sandstorm damage (and just dies to X-Scissor). Grass Arceus can only survive if Exca doesn't have X-Scissor, and the rest of the team dies. Excadrill can set up on Hydreigon's Scarf DM and possibly Tyranitar since Low Kick doesnt KO. Also, Will-o-Wisp is unreliable and Dragon Tail only postpones its destruction.

    Unfortunately I dont know exactly how to solve this. You could either run a bulky Ground/Fighting/Water Arceus of some sort or Gliscor / Rayquaza if you don't want to change the weather. Giratina-O with Earthquake works as well but ehhh....not a huge fan of Tina-O in Sand
  9. trickroom

    trickroom
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    !_! I assumed his Giratina is using Will-O-Wisp or Dragon Tail since both are slashed in. Also, maybe shrang should try Timid Hydreigon if that allows it to survive a +2 Rock Slide from Excadrill after sand.

    He can't fit Gliscor in :P Unless he wants to use something like Bold Grass Arceus...or Skarmory over Giratina. Spikes without spinblock :) Otherwise, shrang should use Aura Sphere Giratina to prevent Excadrill from setting up freely or just use Roar.
  10. Clinton2637

    Clinton2637

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    I think that instead of having Hydreigon, you should have a scarfed Palkia or Reshiram, since they are more powerful revenge killers (More sp atk). Let Giratina have Sleep Talk. It takes advantage of rest, while allowing it to still set up with Calm Mind or use Dragon Pulse. Otherwise, your team is okay; You take advantage of Sandstorm to use Excadrill as a powerful Physical Sweeper. I also like how you send out Ho-Oh first, because it prevents it from taking any Stealth Rock damage, which will cost it quite a lot.
  11. fatsnorlax

    fatsnorlax

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    Run Ice Beam over Roar on Arceus if Gliscor is so annoying.
  12. ssbbm

    ssbbm

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    o_O this is basically the team I run lol...

    How about running Lugia over Giratina in order to help the weakness to Rayquaza and Gliscor? You have SR spun away anyway, and it also gives you a more foolproof check to Mewtwo who can beat you if they can weaken Hydreigon and get the weather on their side. Also, I know you want Excadrill to be strong with LO as a revenge killer, but have you considered Lefties?

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