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Roserade (Analysis)

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by Fatecrashers, Dec 27, 2010.

  1. Fatecrashers

    Fatecrashers acta est fabula
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    Full credit goes to Zystral for this, I'm just pushing it through GP

    http://serebii.net/pokedex-bw/407.shtml

    [​IMG]

    [Overview]

    <p>Roserade was known in the previous generation as a top-class lead. With decent Speed, access to Sleep Powder and (Toxic) Spikes, and great Special Attack to threaten opponents, Roserade saw use on many teams. While the new generation has brought along a large shift in the metagame, entry hazards are still a valuable commodity that few viable Pokemon can boast access to. Roserade's Grass-type gives it an invaluable super effective STAB, backed up by a great offensive movepool; this means Roserade is able to combat the prevalent Rain and Sandstorm weather teams and is still very viable in the OU metagame of today, despite its ridiculous frailty.</p>

    <p>It should be noted, however, that while Roserade is good, it is specialized; unless you have a specific reason for using Roserade over another faster, offensive entry hazard lead, there is usually a better option. Another point worth remembering is that Team Preview renders the use of Roserade as a dedicated lead useless. The popularity of fellow Grass-type Ferrothorn as a wall and Spiker doesn't help Roserade's case either. Despite all of this, rest assured that Roserade can still perform effectively.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Toxic Spikes
    move 1: Toxic Spikes
    move 2: Sleep Powder
    move 3: Leaf Storm / Giga Drain / Grass Knot
    move 4: Hidden Power Fire / Hidden Power Ice
    item: Focus Sash / Life Orb
    ability: Natural Cure
    nature: Timid
    evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Roserade is one of few Pokemon that can effectively set up Toxic Spikes. While Toxic Spikes may seem better suited to supporting stall teams, an offensive Toxic Spiker such as Roserade has its merits. The first point is that Roserade is the fourth fastest user of Toxic Spikes (not counting Qwilfish in the rain), meaning it can always set up two layers against slower opponents. The second point is that Roserade's great Special Attack means that after setting up Toxic Spikes, it can proceed to hit the opponent for reasonable damage, allowing another sweeper to come in and either pick off a weakened opponent or set up while they switch. In addition, Toxic Spikes will wear down the opposing team, allowing other sweepers to pick up some more damage and gain valuable KOs. Sleep Powder is Roserade's best choice against faster leads; because Roserade will be KOed before it can lay any Toxic Spikes, it is best to disable the opponent's Pokemon first, forcing them to switch, thus giving Roserade at least one layer and shutting down one of the opponent's Pokemon for the rest of the game. It also prevents the likes of Hippowdon and Swampert from setting up their entry hazards, helping your sweepers even further.</p>

    <p>Hidden Power Fire is recommended due to the fact that Forretress, Scizor, and Ferrothorn are more likely to crop up early- or mid-game and take on Roserade; however, Hidden Power Ice is not without its merits, hitting Salamence, Dragonite, and Thundurus super effectively. Leaf Storm is the recommended STAB move, packing the most initial power, but its Special Attack drop forces Roserade to switch out afterwards. Giga Drain has low damage output, but its healing properties can keep Roserade alive, working well with Roserade's stellar Special Attack. Grass Knot will be the most effective option against foes such as Tyranitar and Gyarados due to its higher damage output.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The EVs maximize Speed, so that Roserade ties with opposing base 90 Speed Pokemon at worst. Similarly, Special Attack is maximized in order to deal as much damage as possible before going down. Since Roserade is limited in terms of offense, depending on its Hidden Power type, it will fail to KO many Dragon-types, some Grass-types, some Bug-types, and other generally bulky Pokemon. Additionally, Roserade will lure in many Fire-, Ground-, and Bug-type moves. Bulky Water-types such as Gyarados and Jellicent are great partners, resisting almost all the types of attacks that could take down Roserade. They will also enjoy having Toxic Spikes to make their counters less threatening. As mentioned, Team Preview detracts from the effectiveness of this set as a lead, so be careful when using it for that purpose.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Spikes
    move 1: Spikes
    move 2: Giga Drain / Grass Knot
    move 3: Hidden Power Fire / Hidden Power Ice
    move 4: Rest / Stun Spore / Leech Seed
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Natural Cure
    nature: Calm
    evs: 252 HP / 120 Def / 136 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Roserade also has access to Spikes, and is very good at setting them up, being able to deal severe damage to the majority of Rapid Spinners in OU. This Roserade is much bulkier than the Toxic Spikes set, so Giga Drain becomes the better option, keeping Roserade healthy while still taking out the likes of Starmie and Excadrill. Grass Knot is an option to hit heavier foes if desired. Once again, Hidden Power Fire takes out Ferrothorn and Forretress, two Pokemon that not only give Roserade stiff competition in setting up entry hazards, but also pose as potential walls to Roserade's assaults. If Dragon Dance users such as Salamence and Dragonite are worrying, then Hidden Power Ice will swiftly KO the Dragons before they can even attack.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Spikes is a much more useful entry hazard in general, since its effects are instant. Many late-game sweepers such as Gyarados and Virizion enjoy having Spikes around, enabling them to nab additional OHKOs against certain threats. If you find that you can get three layers of Spikes up and Roserade isn't particularly needed for weakening the opponent's Pokemon, Energy Ball is a stronger STAB move, yet still reliable. This Roserade works extremely well with Flash Fire users such as Heatran and Chandelure; it attracts Fire-type moves to give Heatran or Chandelure a boost, and provides Spikes to help these Fire-types nab KOs against extremely bulky Pokemon such as Hippowdon.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Roserade's movepool is great for what it can do; Sludge Bomb is an effective STAB move with decent neutral coverage, although Steel-types resist both of Roserade's STABs. Weather Ball can see some use, especially with the prominence of weather in this generation; unfortunately, Pokemon commonly seen on weather teams resist it. Shadow Ball can hit Ghost- and Psychic-types quite hard, although Roserade will struggle to break the likes of Reuniclus or Jellicent. Aromatherapy is an interesting choice, especially on the more defensive Roserade, although Roserade isn't as bulky as other clerics. It struggles to find the opportunity to switch in repeatedly, and is outclassed by the likes of Blissey. Grasswhistle can be used on the Spikes set, as Sleep Powder and Spikes is an illegal combination. In addition to the listed sets, you may also slap a Choice Scarf or Choice Specs on Roserade and go fully offensive with a set of Leaf Storm / Sludge Bomb / Hidden Power Fire / Rest and abuse Roserade's naturally high Special Attack.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Steel-types resist both of Roserade's STAB moves, and fear only Hidden Power Fire. In particular, Skarmory and Ferrothorn can set up their entry hazards, and use Whirlwind and Gyro Ball, respectively. Lacking Hidden Power Ice allows Dragon-types to come in and set up, or simply take Roserade out. Blissey walls everything, provided it doesn't come in on two layers of Toxic Spikes. It can then proceed to paralyze Roserade or take it down with Seismic Toss or Ice Beam. In general, Roserade hits hard, but if a Pokemon can switch in without losing more than 40%, it's not hard to hit it on its frail Defense and take it out.</p>

    [Dream World]

    <p>Technician is one of Roserade's better upgrades, although outside of the rare, weak Grass Knot, Roserade has few viable options that are boosted by Technician. Magical Leaf is more powerful than Energy Ball after Technician and has infinite accuracy and more PP. Most Roserade use Hidden Power, so reducing the power of Hidden Power to 60 or 59 from an IV spread listed <a href="/dp/articles/technician_hidden_powers">here</a> grants Roserade a Hidden Power strength of either 90 or 88, depending on which you decide on. Other options are Swift and Round, both of which are competitively useless.</p>
  2. panamaxis

    panamaxis Allons-y!
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    Everything looks good. Quality Control Approved 1/2
  3. deimos

    deimos

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    Why Energy Ball instead of Giga Drain? Giga Drain has only 5 less Base Power in Generation 5 and it drains HP.
  4. SOMALIA

    SOMALIA The King
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    Giga Drain has a mention in AC, of the spike set. Giga Drain would only replenish a significant portion if it hits something for super effective damage as with its poor base power, it is not going to do much. Energy Ball has more pp if I'm not mistaken and the potential Sp.def is impressive not to mention the extra power, even if it is only 5 is worthwhile in the long run.
  5. Ahhhhhh......Clefable.

    Ahhhhhh......Clefable.

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    They actually have the same amount of PP.

    I agree that Giga Drain should be the main option, unless you have calculations that prove that the extra damage dealt by Energy Ball makes it worth it.
  6. Limewire

    Limewire PRESS R TO WIN
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    Why use Focus Sash? Life Orb is a much better item, and there are no more dedicated leads ever since "Team Preview" was implemented to this generation.

    Also, would a SubSeed set for Roserade be a good idea?
  7. SOMALIA

    SOMALIA The King
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    Subseed set I've tried once or twice with negative results and is too gimmicky.

    -Unlike Venusaur, Roserade is pretty fragile not to mention its Speed isnt too impresive.
    -It is too easy to counter. The likes of Nattorei easily set up on me if I use Hidden Power Ice. While Dragon-types such as subchomp and Latias set up with ease.
    -Allowing it to utilize such as moveset is just a waste on your team when it could play the role of other sets that are much more viable.
  8. Kevin Garrett

    Kevin Garrett is a competitor
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    Looks good to me. If another QC wants to weigh in they can.

    QC Approved (2/2)
  9. SOMALIA

    SOMALIA The King
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    Thanks both of you, will start writing this up.
  10. ParaChomp

    ParaChomp

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    With Drought Ninetails on your side, a sun abuse set is possible but it's best to put it in optional changes once you write it in complete sentences.
  11. SOMALIA

    SOMALIA The King
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    If you maybe read the above comments you'd know why I'm not going to include a Sub set. It doesn't work first and foremost having tested it several times and is too easy to wall/set up upon and it is too gimmicky. Also regarding drought, I'll mention it when I write this up.
  12. ParaChomp

    ParaChomp

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    Okay, thanks.
  13. GameMaster0000

    GameMaster0000

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    I think Technician should be mention when it is release, it can use with Magical Leaf and Hidden Power with 60 base power.

    Natural Cure is great ability but he mostly use as lead also he is immune to poison and not care about burn so much.
  14. zapper22001

    zapper22001

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    I've been using a Dual Spiking set on Roserade for quite a while and it is pretty good. It is a pretty good check to Rotom-w and a bunch of other water-types. It gets a bunch of set up opportunities in this metagame. The set in general got a huge boost from Team Preview because you can pick your poison and you know how many layers you will need for Toxic Spikes. For example, if you see that their team is mostly offensive and grounded, one layer of Toxic Spikes will suffice. If it is a stall team, then you would go for 2 layers.

    The set I use is:

    Roserade@Leftovers
    Calm
    Natural Cure
    252 HP/ 156 S.Def/ 100 Spe
    -Giga Drain
    -Toxic Spikes
    -Spikes
    -Rest/ Hidden Power Fire/ Hidden Power Ice

    Without a Hidden Power, this set is set up bait; however, it can be played around with smart switching. Though you will need some Steels to handle all the Dragon-types running around. Giga Drain is your basic STAB and with the boost in BW, it can recover quite a bit of health. Toxic Spikes and Spikes are your entry hazards. Rest works well with Natural Cure in allowing Roserade to stay healthy throughout the match. 100 Spe hits 241 Speed which allows you to outspeed the standard Rotom-w set. The rest were put in HP and Special Defense to provide maximum Special Bulk.
  15. serazac

    serazac

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    Technician STAB Magical Leaf...not as powerful as new Petal Dance...but hey, at least you don't fall into confusion...just saying....
  16. AccidentalGreed

    AccidentalGreed HOMERUN, CABRONES
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    Now why would Roserade trade her Status-absorbing abilities for Technition? For starters, Natural Cure ensures that Roserade isn't immediately ruined by stray paralysis-inducing moves, and with the new Sleep Powder mechanics, Roserade has to take advantage of Natural Cure as well. Also, there's no way Roserade is using Petal Dance unless it holds a choice item, and even then Giga Drain is a better choice.
  17. serazac

    serazac

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    woops, forgot about Natural Cure :)
  18. GtM

    GtM

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    I think Technician could be somewhat decent for Roserade, since although it sacrifices Roserade's ability to absorb status it gives her some better offensive options. Since there's no lead metagame now and the focus has shifted away from sleep moves and their users, it might be decent.

    Roserade @ Life Orb
    Ability: Technician
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
    - Toxic Spikes
    - Sleep Powder
    - Grass Knot
    - Hidden Power Fire / Ice

    I suppose that the main advantage of this set is that it can OHKO Specially Defensive Ferrothorn and Physically Defensive Skarmory 100% of the time with a 90BP Hidden Power Fire, as well as OHKOing Excadrill on the switch, none of which could be managed before. In the Sun HP Fire becomes quite devestating, OHKOing even Specially Defensive Skarmory, standard Metagross, Scarf Jirachi, and so on.

    It also stands a good chance of OHKOing Hydreigon with Hidden Power Ice, which could not be managed before, and it can also take down Latios in one hit if there's some residual damage. Grass Knot will vary between 80 and 120 base power against everything it needs to, making it a stronger option than Giga Drain whilst lacking the recovery.

    Even though the IVs drop her speed, she doesn't miss out on outspeeding much. 252 Speed EVs are still recommended since you can outrun Jolly Doryuuzu outside of Sand, but if that's not an issue then a spread of 68 HP / 252 SpA / 188 Speed can be used to outspeed positive natured bas 80s. A Modest nature can be used if you don't mind going slightly lower, but the extra power doesn't get you any notable KOs.

    It's niche, but I still think it's worth mentioning as a viable alternative in the Dream World section.
  19. Paradoxus

    Paradoxus

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    you should mention in the toxic spikes set that Roserade can use venoshock.
  20. MewGod

    MewGod

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    mehh seems nice =) I do think tech with magical leaf (132+ BP) a sub set with this is nice, but hey...
  21. Zystral

    Zystral めんどくさい、な~
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    Unless a Mod/QC has a problem with content, this is ready for Grammar Checking.
  22. Darkmalice

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    90 base Speed isn't incredible. "Decent" would be a better word to describe it.

    You should also mention that Team Preview discourages the use of a dedicated lead i.e. Sash TSpikes Roserade.

    Considering that pretty much every Roserade uses Hidden Power, a 90 base power (60 x Technician boost) Hidden Power shouldn't be dismissed as merely a minor change, and it should definitely be mentioned before Swift.


    [EDIT] Yay, 1000th post!
  23. Zystral

    Zystral めんどくさい、な~
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    The above points have been noted and edited in.
  24. Paradoxus

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    Hidden Power can only go to 64 damage, not 60.
  25. Zystral

    Zystral めんどくさい、な~
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    What the fuck are you talking about?
    Hidden Power has a maximum of 70, and is variable to be any power in between 70 and 30.

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