Pokémon Roserade

[pectus_Umbra]

the point is that HP fire roserade is the same as as a grass-type with flamethrower. this makes it excellent for hitting the types and mons that normally wall the likes of roserade, letting you turn around and get a kill instead of being forced to switch. To put in perspective:

0 SpA Technician Roserade Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Scizor: 288-340 (83.7 - 98.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO Witch Techinician
0 SpA Roserade Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Scizor: 192-228 (55.8 - 66.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO Without Technician

^Those are without ANY Sp.atk investment, and vs. max defensive scizor (best case scenario for scizor, never actually happening)

vs. Ferrothorn
0 SpA Technician Roserade Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Ferrothorn: 204-244 (57.9 - 69.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO with technician
0 SpA Roserade Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Ferrothorn: 136-164 (38.6 - 46.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO without technician

so yeah, it hits some very popular mons that would otherwise have the potential to wall it hard. and that doesn't even include genesect, which already got calculations earlier from supernut64. With the addition of powder immunity on grass-types, anything that allows you extra advantage against enemy grass is very much worthwhile.

While I don't believe that an all-out attack set or assault vest is the right choice do to having some valuable options in spikes and sleep powder, technician is certainly equal to natural cure, particularly in the world of smogon sims where you can simply nullify jumping through the various hoops of breeding that such things require.

 

[Jaroda]

Well the beauty of Technician Hidden Power is it can be any type you want. Ground/Water for Heatran, Rock for Charizard, Ice for, well, you know them all. Fire is a good option of course, Hidden Power can be used as a secret weapon against any thorn in your side. With Specs or Scarf it can put a stop to many things with that kind of power. That's damn good versatility.

 

[PrincessDerpy]

That is rather good honestly. Elemental beam with the type of your choice that only costs IVs. Some mons would kill for that.

 

[TKGriffiths]

It's a decent option if you want to use, but remember that Technician Hidden Power has always been available and didn't make a big impact last generation. Maybe on choice specs/scarf it'd be at home, but being able to absorb status and use Rest for free is really nice.

 

[Jaroda]

It's a decent option if you want to use, but remember that Technician Hidden Power has always been available and didn't make a big impact last generation. Maybe on choice specs/scarf it'd be at home, but being able to absorb status and use Rest for free is really nice.

No Hidden Power's BP was too high before to get the Technician boost. It's had access to Technician before, but not with Hidden Power.

 

[Jaroda]

Hm, I suppose you could. You're right about it not being popular though I don't even remember it

 

[Always!]

I would love to try Roserade out, but the prevalence of Talonflame, Greninja and such make me rather hesitant. I guess a good partner like Tyranitar or Rotom-W would be ideal, but then I don't know which type of Roserade to run, Technician HP Fire or Natural Cure rest....

Decisions, Decisions....

 

[pectus_Umbra]

Do what your team needs. Find your weaknesses. Rose has great advantage vs rotom w for example

 

[Bent1ey]

No Hidden Power's BP was too high before to get the Technician boost. It's had access to Technician before, but not with Hidden Power.

The circumstances were rather different though, most Special moves had a higher base power back then, the increase for Hidden Power itself was inferior compared with other users -given that you had to forego 10 base power to even run the Technician version of the move-, and the lack of certain key egg moves combinations for Roserade made it difficult to Rossy to set Spikes without status absorbing. Arguably Hidden Power is a better option now that Sleep Powder has been nerfed.

 

[Grey Knight]

Well i just wanted to mention how much easier it will be for rose to check some special sweepers that last gen made roses life a bit harder with the SE coverage moves namely heat wave zapdos and fm zoroark ,hp ice raikou and keldeo , ice beam suicune and many many others that got to see their precious coverage moves getting nerfed reducing their damage outputs greatly and making them easier for rose to deal with,this in conjuction with the godsend defense boost can actually help to lift some weight from roses nonexistent shoulders and lead to use of more offensive perhaps even tankish sets and spreads that can take full avd of its many new offensive toys witch include the newly buffed to 90 bp energy ball various techn boosted hidden powers and a hole new type to hit for SE damage with its secondary poison stab.

 

[Mega_Charizard_Z]

Would Aroma Therapy be viable at all on him? I know he's not exactly bulky but if rest + Natural cure is a thing, he must be able to take some hits.

 

[pectus_Umbra]

There's nothing wrong at all with aroma therapy on roserade if your team needs the cleric support, and your build options are pretty decent as well. Cleric Roserade gives rose a niche that venasaur can't take from it, due to lacking Therapy.
Is arguably equal to blissey as well, for several reasons:
Cons:
-Does not match blissey as a pure special wall.
-No wish-passing.
-Technically, rose has a less diverse move pool.
*Not a blissey user, so anyone that can point out more can share more

Pros:
-More rounded stats are arguably more useful. 90 speed is a massive step up from 55, giving you the potential to outspeed rotom and excadrill. Even with minimal investment, 125 base sp.atk gives potential for strong hits, and offers more flexibility with the movepool (more below). with even a simple 12 EVs in sp.atk, roserade can outspeed and 2HKO excadrill with 2 consecutive leaf storms or Technician HP fire. only sp.defensive rotom-w lives through more than 2 hits of anything.

-Arguably superior typing. immune to spore, powder, leech seed, and toxic right off the bat, allowing roserade better chances to absorb status before having to rely on Natural Cure. You completely wall Rotom-W and can hit it SE while ignoring all the usual tricks. While Bold Blissey can wall excadrill with softboiled, roserade actually has the potential for strong damage spikes with STAB leaf storm or Technician HP Fire.

-Not bad move options at all. You have access to sleep and spikes alongside your Therapy, though I would probably recommend keeping 2 attacking moves on Rose to keep offensive presence. while blissey has a wider range of options, including stealth rock, it's stat spread makes those options inferior.

-Actual ability options. due to the above mentions of things such as roserade's typing, it is entirely arguable for even more defensive roses to take technician over natural cure. Again, while blissey has a movepool that could use serene grace, the complete lack of offensive threat makes that ability a waste of time. meanwhile, technician HP fire does heavy damage on steel even with the low 12 EVs in sp. atk.

Anyway, tldr version: Therapy on Roserade is almost certainly acceptable. possible spread for sim players:
252 HP/12 sp. atk/240 Speed <cart players/lvl 50 battlers should move 4 additional evs to outspeed jolly excadrill.>
NOTE: If using HP Fire, need 4 additional Speed evs to make up for 30 speed IVs.
ability: Natural Cure/Technician
Item: Black Sludge
Moves:
-Aromatherapy
-Sleep powder
-Leaf Storm/giga drain
-Shadow Ball/HP Fire

The above is just a mod of my older bulky roserade specifically using Aromatherapy to provide cleric support. there are several additional move options such as spikes, synthesis or rest if you want more focus on support/ability to keep HP up. other attack options include dazzling gleam, extrasensory, and HP ice, all of which can hit different things if your team needs them, though I think having shadow ball for ghosts and psychic switch-ins as well as a neutral attack is probably best.
EDIT: Of course, for dedicated clerics/support, you can always shift the Sp. Atk evs anywhere you please. I'm hardly an expert :P.

Final note: Roserade is not crippled by trick from rotom either, happy to use scarf or specs to cause havoc and giving away black sludge in it's place.

 

[Mega_Charizard_Z]

Definitely sounds like a cool set to run, I'll have to try it out at some point

 

[Ryperior]

Really liking the HP fire option with Technician. Now to track one down or breed one for my self. Good stuff! Going to work with my Rotom-H and Greninja pretty well, plus the second core i have that compliments the whole FWG well too, really glad to have found the final member possibly in Rose!

 

[pectus_Umbra]

Glad to hear! The changes to Hidden power are really something that I rather enjoy, especially as someone that only does stuff on cartridge.

Random thoughts:
-Is it worth the sacrifice in offensive power for outspeeding excadrill? Probably, but it may end up with spreading Rose too thin, though that may depend on what form of Rotom-W is most popular at the moment, since the sp.defensive set is the only one that can really escape from the minimally offensive roserade.
-It might be worth experimenting with Roserade on a stallish team as well with access to spikes, toxic spikes, sleep powder, and being a cleric and status absorber all at the same time. obviously you don't use all those moves together, but those with experience building/playing stall could offer feedback about what kind of niches roserade could fill. Though to be fair, Mega-Venasaur will probably be the go-to for stall for a good while I suspect.

 

[PrincessDerpy]

The problem with Roserade in stall is it is only marginally durable, and only on the special side. It simply is not a stall mon even if it can pack Cleric-Lite and spikes/toxspikes into the same set.

 

[zachmac]

The problem with Roserade in stall is it is only marginally durable, and only on the special side. It simply is not a stall mon even if it can pack Cleric-Lite and spikes/toxspikes into the same set.

I could say that Deoxys-D is not a Hyper Offensie pokemon because of it's extremely lackluster sweeping abilities, but you know it's main use before it got banned in gen 5.

So long as it can support a stall team, it belongs there, even if it can't really wall itself. The big problem with Roseraid in stall today is that 90% of stall teams are running Mega Venusaur, which carries the same typing -2 weaknesses. But if your team is utilizing, say, Mega Aggron, than it could potentially find a spot. But then you have to deal with the Defog buff decreased the demand for Toxic Spikes in stall....

 

[Milkshook]

Here is a set I use, It's very powerful (like seriously, it OHKOs talonflame on the switch with sludge bomb) and has pretty good coverage.

Roserade
Item: Choice Specs/Giga drain
Move 1: Leaf Storm
Move 2: Sludge Bomb
Move 2: HP fire
Move 3: Petal Dance/Giga drain/Dazzling gleam
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252spatk/252spe
Modest nature

One does not simply resist Roserade's specs leaf storm. Leaf Storm is Roserade's most powerful move and few things can switch into it. Sludge bomb is there for a reliable STAB move and is still very powerful, I already mentioned how it OHKOs talonflame upon switch in. Hidden power fire is for coverage and is pretty good with Roserade's technician boost. Petal Dance is there to sweep and it isn't redundant at all with leaf storm. Since it's so powerful, you can just sweep teams with it after getting rid of pokemon that can actually live a hit. Dazzling gleam is just there for extra coverage and for being able to hit things super effectively without the special attack drop from leaf storm or being locked into petal dance. Technician is there to boost hp fire and Roserade bluffs natural cure quite well. The EVs are there to makes its special attacks as strong as possible and outspeed pokemon that expect it to be slow. It's a great wallbreaker and sweeper.

EDIT: Added giga drain as alternatives as some people may see petal dance and leaf storm as redundant and to recover health which is important at times. Also added Dazzling gleam for coverage.

 

[IcyMan28]

Here is a set I use, It's very powerful (like seriously, it OHKOs talonflame on the switch with sludge bomb) and has pretty good coverage.

Roserade
Item: Choice Specs
Move 1: Leaf Storm
Move 2: Sludge Bomb
Move 2: HP fire
Move 3: Petal Dance
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252spatk/252spe
Modest nature

One does not simply resist Roserade's specs leaf storm. Leaf Storm is Roserade's most powerful move and few things can switch into it. Sludge bomb is there for a reliable STAB move and is still very powerful, I already mentioned how it OHKOs talonflame upon switch in. Hidden power fire is for coverage and is pretty good with Roserade's technician boost. Petal Dance is there to sweep and it isn't redundant at all with leaf storm. Since it's so powerful, you can just sweep teams with it after getting rid of pokemon that can actually live a hit. Technician is there to boost hp fire and Roserade bluffs natural cure quite well. The EVs are there to makes its special attacks as strong as possible and outspeed pokemon that expect it to be slow. It's a great wallbreaker and sweeper

Petal Dance is suboptimal when you already have Leaf Storm for power and Sludge Bomb for reliability. Locking yourself into a grass attack with such low speed doesn't seem like a good idea, either.

With the fourth slot being largely filler, I'd imagine that Dazzling Gleam or Shadow Ball would be more effective. Maybe even Sleep Powder because sleep is just a great status condition.

 

[Milkshook]

Petal Dance is suboptimal when you already have Leaf Storm for power and Sludge Bomb for reliability. Locking yourself into a grass attack with such low speed doesn't seem like a good idea, either.

With the fourth slot being largely filler, I'd imagine that Dazzling Gleam or Shadow Ball would be more effective. Maybe even Sleep Powder because sleep is just a great status condition.

Petal dance is better in some situations and it's not redundant at all. Also, sleep powder isn't too good on a choice specs set. If you really wanted, you could run giga drain instead of petal dance.

 

[kabbes]

After struggling for months to round out my team, I have found Roserade to be the answer. Specifically, this Roserade

Foxglove
Roserade@choice scarf
Natural cure
Modest
HP: 60
Sp atk: 250+
Speed:200

Leaf storm
Sludge bomb
Dazzling Gleam
Sleep powder

Speed evs are to ensure outspeeding everything up to and including a Jolly +1 mega-Tyranitar. That means you outspeed virtually everything worth outspeeding, frankly. Greninja, DD Dragonite, you name it.

Leaf Storm and sludge bomb revenges a hell of a lot, sleep powder puts the rest to sleep.

My team has no problem with talonflame or Ferrothorn, but it was very vulnerable to focus blast spam, and this stops that dead in its tracks. I also had some trouble with some dark and fighting types, so dazzling gleam is there just in case it is needed. DG doesn't get much of a look in though, because the other moves are so strong.

Natural cure basically makes her effectively invulnerable to thunder wave, which is a godsend. It also saves me in Wi-Fi battles from Darkrai's dark void, which is everywhere. Technician would be pointless, as I am not using Hidden Power.

I emphasise that as with everything, this build is specific for a team (a team built around DD M-Charizard-X and DD Tyranitar, who collectively really appreciate grass/poison/sleep support). It's not an optimal build per se but it hits like a frickin' train and is as fast as lightning, which is perfect for what I need.

 

[ilovekirby12]

Here is a set I use, It's very powerful (like seriously, it OHKOs talonflame on the switch with sludge bomb) and has pretty good coverage.

Roserade
Item: Choice Specs/Giga drain
Move 1: Leaf Storm
Move 2: Sludge Bomb
Move 2: HP fire
Move 3: Petal Dance/Giga drain/Dazzling gleam
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252spatk/252spe
Modest nature

One does not simply resist Roserade's specs leaf storm. Leaf Storm is Roserade's most powerful move and few things can switch into it. Sludge bomb is there for a reliable STAB move and is still very powerful, I already mentioned how it OHKOs talonflame upon switch in. Hidden power fire is for coverage and is pretty good with Roserade's technician boost. Petal Dance is there to sweep and it isn't redundant at all with leaf storm. Since it's so powerful, you can just sweep teams with it after getting rid of pokemon that can actually live a hit. Dazzling gleam is just there for extra coverage and for being able to hit things super effectively without the special attack drop from leaf storm or being locked into petal dance. Technician is there to boost hp fire and Roserade bluffs natural cure quite well. The EVs are there to makes its special attacks as strong as possible and outspeed pokemon that expect it to be slow. It's a great wallbreaker and sweeper.

EDIT: Added giga drain as alternatives as some people may see petal dance and leaf storm as redundant and to recover health which is important at times. Also added Dazzling gleam for coverage.

This set is too op. Seriously people under estimate roserade.

 

[Reiga]

After struggling for months to round out my team, I have found Roserade to be the answer. Specifically, this Roserade

Foxglove
Roserade@choice scarf
Natural cure
Modest
HP: 60
Sp atk: 250+
Speed:200

Leaf storm
Sludge bomb
Dazzling Gleam
Sleep powder

Speed evs are to ensure outspeeding everything up to and including a Jolly +1 mega-Tyranitar. That means you outspeed virtually everything worth outspeeding, frankly. Greninja, DD Dragonite, you name it.

Leaf Storm and sludge bomb revenges a hell of a lot, sleep powder puts the rest to sleep.

My team has no problem with talonflame or Ferrothorn, but it was very vulnerable to focus blast spam, and this stops that dead in its tracks. I also had some trouble with some dark and fighting types, so dazzling gleam is there just in case it is needed. DG doesn't get much of a look in though, because the other moves are so strong.

Natural cure basically makes her effectively invulnerable to thunder wave, which is a godsend. It also saves me in Wi-Fi battles from Darkrai's dark void, which is everywhere. Technician would be pointless, as I am not using Hidden Power.

I emphasise that as with everything, this build is specific for a team (a team built around DD M-Charizard-X and DD Tyranitar, who collectively really appreciate grass/poison/sleep support). It's not an optimal build per se but it hits like a frickin' train and is as fast as lightning, which is perfect for what I need.

You should probably never use a status move like Sleep Powder on a pokemon with a choice item unless it has Trick or if it has a shallow offensive movepool because you will be stuck using Sleep Powder and have to switch out, that Roserade is better off with Shadow Ball, Hidden Power Fire or Extrasensory.

 

[Wimblesaurus]

I'm not sure why Poison Jab and Swords Dance are listed in the OP.

The same reason any pokemon that can function as a wallbreaker would want to go mixed.

+2 136 Atk Life Orb Roserade Petal Blizzard vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 298-351 (42.3 - 49.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+2 136 Atk Life Orb Roserade Petal Blizzard vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Tyranitar: 315-374 (77.9 - 92.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

 

[kabbes]

You should probably never use a status move like Sleep Powder on a pokemon with a choice item unless it has Trick or if it has a shallow offensive movepool because you will be stuck using Sleep Powder and have to switch out, that Roserade is better off with Shadow Ball, Hidden Power Fire or Extrasensory.

You'll never have perfect four move coverage, but sleep powder allows you to act as a pivot. Come in on a resistance, quickly put something to sleep and switch to a check or counter. It keeps momentum.