When was the last time you tried?... I remember when XY OU and ORAS OU were diferent I also had some problems with Diancie and Drain Punch Chesnaught, and now they fixed it. Try now i guess
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
ORAS OU Rough Diamonds are now Pink - An RMT Ft. Mega Diancie (Peaked #11)
- Thread starter McBeengs
- Start date
IMO, Spikes>Seed Bomb on Chesnaught as your team greatly benefits from them. Additionally, your team doesn't really struggle with any of the targets of Seed Bomb aside from Gastrodon, who is extremely rare in the tier. Just my two cents, feel free to prove me wrong.
It was primarily to deal with MSwampert since his team would otherwise be run over in a heartbeat, and he wants it dead ASAP rather than simply being forced to switch out due to leech seed + spiky shield. With his spread he can generally tank Ice punch and proceed to maim MSwampert. It basically provides him with a solid and immediate answer to MSwampert.
Not only to Swampert, but also to Azu; Every single offense team needs to have an awnser to him, and Chesnaught is mine... I know, put an Fighting type to check an Fairy is stupid, but like I said on one of my previous replyes:
4 Atk Chesnaught Seed Bomb vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 222-264 (54.9 - 65.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
While:
252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 224-266 (58.9 - 70%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Azumarill outpaces you, and that is not considering the possibility that it may have already boosted or it is a Choice Band set:
- +6 252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 894-1052 (235.2 - 276.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
- 252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 338-398 (88.9 - 104.7%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO OR 252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 338-398 (88.9 - 104.7%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Azumarill only would outspeed me if he was more offensive than defensive, and let's not forget that his more popular set still is the AV one. Like I said into the RMT, this team has plenty of ways of revenge kill him... Not only that, but CB sets are almost non-existent and BD only becomes more easy to revenge kill him with, let's say, my Latios. Azu with 252 HP / 252+ Atk only reaches 136 Spd, while Chesnaught is 164. On top of all that, outside the AV set, it's rather easy to know what set he's running since no Azu on Earth would stay on Latios if he is choice-locked on anything other than Play Rough, or has no SDef whatsoever to tank an Thunderbolt.
Once again, just a suggestion :] I was just trying to think of ways to beat SpD Heatran without changing any members :]
Relax man, I appreciate any help that you can come with (aaaand let's not forget that every comment brings my thread to the top of the page again ;) )
BTW I generally switch to Keldeo since non offensive variants can't do too muck to Keldeo's nice bulk
While Thunderbolt is nice to hit Azumarill (a problem for sure, but you can probably play around it without mutilating your team) and Shed Shell Skarmory, in this meta I think Earthquake/Surf has more use as coverage for Latios so long as you're not going to bother trying to peg Ferrothorn/Scizor. Psyshock dings Azu into range for other things while Surf hits Skarmory hard enough and either Surf or EQ does a real number to Heatran, who is otherwise problematic--yes, Keldeo is a great check to Heatran, but you rely on it as an offensive check to tons of things and making it take stray fire flasts and toxics and hazards isn't lightening it's load.
This team has really opened my eyes to Mega Diancie, well thought-out and impressive in this young metagame. Cheers~
This team has really opened my eyes to Mega Diancie, well thought-out and impressive in this young metagame. Cheers~
I can't seem to really make my team all that great, so I figured I'd try out yours. It's actually very effective; Bisharp in particular is just devastating to teams. In the three matches I played, I won them all, but very narrowly - usually it came down to 1 vs. 1. Bisharp's most notable role is preventing Defog, but without entry hazards on your team, all he does is block Intimidate. Popular Intimidate users like Landorus-T can beat Bisharp 1 on 1, despite the Attack boost it gets from Intimidate.
I'm going to suggest a few things. First up, you definitely need entry hazards, as there is no reason for the opponent to use Defog if you don't have Stealth Rock. It turns many 2HKOs into OHKOs, 3HKOs into 2HKOs, and so on, and gives the opposing team a reason to use Defog and effectively lose momentum undoing something your Pokemon has set up, which can let you switch into Bisharp, set up that Rock Polish on Diancie, or just kill it. This is especially helpful when the opposing team has Talonflame or Charizard Y, who are both common, as they absolutely require Stealth Rock to be gone before switching in. This puts a lot of pressure on their Defogger. This team is very solid on its own, but it has some problems that can be exploited. Lack of Stealth Rock, lack of reliable check to Azumarill, and weakness to rain teams. Of course, the team does very well outside of these problems, as I have tested, but if you run into a rain team or Azumarill, you're really going to have a hard time winning. What does Azumarill and rain teams fear a lot? Ferrothorn. I'd recommend replacing Magnezone with Ferrothorn. Before outright declining this, let me tell you something. I get that Magnezone traps steels. I get that it's handy because Mega Diancie is countered by steels. But the problem is, the metagame has prepared for Magnezone. Shed Shell Skarmory, Shed Shell Ferrothorn, it's all there. I've even seen some Shed Shell Scizor. Scizor with Superpower can also beat Magnezone. Hidden Power Fire pathetically 3HKOs 248/100 M-Scizor. As a matter of fact, THUNDERBOLT does 6% more damage to normal Scizor than Hidden Power Fire! also ferrothorn has stealth rock
Anyway, these are just some thoughts.
e: Try replacing Pursuit with Swords Dance on Bisharp. Bisharp is just expected to trap the Lati twins, so they're naturally going to try to resist. Sucker Punch? Pursuit? There's no way to know for sure what move you're gonna make, so if they choose to switch out, you can Swords Dance and Sucker Punch whatever comes in for much better damage.
I'm going to suggest a few things. First up, you definitely need entry hazards, as there is no reason for the opponent to use Defog if you don't have Stealth Rock. It turns many 2HKOs into OHKOs, 3HKOs into 2HKOs, and so on, and gives the opposing team a reason to use Defog and effectively lose momentum undoing something your Pokemon has set up, which can let you switch into Bisharp, set up that Rock Polish on Diancie, or just kill it. This is especially helpful when the opposing team has Talonflame or Charizard Y, who are both common, as they absolutely require Stealth Rock to be gone before switching in. This puts a lot of pressure on their Defogger. This team is very solid on its own, but it has some problems that can be exploited. Lack of Stealth Rock, lack of reliable check to Azumarill, and weakness to rain teams. Of course, the team does very well outside of these problems, as I have tested, but if you run into a rain team or Azumarill, you're really going to have a hard time winning. What does Azumarill and rain teams fear a lot? Ferrothorn. I'd recommend replacing Magnezone with Ferrothorn. Before outright declining this, let me tell you something. I get that Magnezone traps steels. I get that it's handy because Mega Diancie is countered by steels. But the problem is, the metagame has prepared for Magnezone. Shed Shell Skarmory, Shed Shell Ferrothorn, it's all there. I've even seen some Shed Shell Scizor. Scizor with Superpower can also beat Magnezone. Hidden Power Fire pathetically 3HKOs 248/100 M-Scizor. As a matter of fact, THUNDERBOLT does 6% more damage to normal Scizor than Hidden Power Fire! also ferrothorn has stealth rock
Anyway, these are just some thoughts.
e: Try replacing Pursuit with Swords Dance on Bisharp. Bisharp is just expected to trap the Lati twins, so they're naturally going to try to resist. Sucker Punch? Pursuit? There's no way to know for sure what move you're gonna make, so if they choose to switch out, you can Swords Dance and Sucker Punch whatever comes in for much better damage.
Alright people, I couldn't respond recently because I finally bought my AS \(^◇^)/ ... For that reason I've been through these days completing the game, and now I'm just digging for BP to teach my tutor moves. Anyway:
It's nice to see people starting to realize Diancie's power since it's kinda hard choose her with other more popular megas out there... I know the tiers updates just came out, but you can write my words: I only will rest in peace when I see Diancie in OU again.
Your idea isn't bad per say, but there's some things that took my imagination, first off Magnezone: Yea the meta has definitively prepared for him, but this doesn't necessarily make him unworthy on this team; Like I said to gnr61, now I'm testing Surf on Latios rather than TB, and thrus if I remove Mag now, every Flying type will have a party on this team, and THIS is what bothers me... You see, Magnezone main job is indeed trap and kill shit that Diancie fear, but you forgot his other main reason: CHECK BIRD SPAM; Replacing him with Ferro would leave Diancie alone to check every single Flying type in OU like Talonflame, Pinsir, Hawlucha (already a problem), Staraptor and Tornadus-T... And let's not forget that, even without mega evolution, Diancie's HP is pretty bad; So horrible that things like this happens:
252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Return vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Diancie: 87-102 (36 - 42.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Of course, Pinsir would be using EQ or CC instead, but this is just for show how NORMAL Diancie, with his 50/150/150 defenses, hold a resisted move. On top of that, removing Mag also would shatter my Fairy/Steel/Dragon already so well
structured, so basically Mag cannot leave this team, but this also brings me to my 2nd conclusion: Redundancy
Counter rain teams, check Scizor & Azu and being a Grass type tank, what this remember to you? Chesnaught. Before everyone start to trown rocks at me, let me say: Yes, I stay at Chesnaught's side countless times, he's good and everything, but in all seriousness, Ferrothorn just appears as an better solution for this team specifically. Like you said, SR is def. a thing that Bisharp loves having on the other side, many more kills can be accomplished by the chip damage and now I can counter Azu, all at the same time while also running Power Whip to 2HKO Swampert. It's technically true that Chesnaught can check many more things than Ferro on this team, but since most of those "things" can also be handed by the rest of my team, instead of switching Magnezone I will choose to try Ferrothorn over Chesnaught, however I still need to say: Using your own argument, Scizor also isn't bothered even a little by Ferro, in fact, they generally uses you as a setup fodder to SD while you can't do nothing other than TW him.
This makes me a little sad since I really like of putting creative things on my teams, and Chesnaught is an awesome mon, but Ferro just seems like a better idea in terms of performance, so I will replace him temporarily and then decide whatever or not I like the most. But hold on, not everything is a bed of roses since now I need to talk about this:
First of all, believe or not, they mostly tend to stay and kill you, so have this on mind the next time you think to use Pursuit, and second, this isn't different of any other prediction you could do in any other battle, with this team or not... Are situations like this where you have to pick an side and pray for the best, since like even you said it's really hard to tell what are on the other player's head, so you just need to have luck. About SD I already told my opinion on this thread, so I'll shamelessly Ctrl+C from my previous post:
"Pursuit was the main reason I choose Bisharp over Talonflame... Without it how I suppose to trap and kill Mega Latias?, Bisharp only can switch one time in front of Lati@s, so I wouldn't have another chance to kill her. Also I think SD on Bisharp isn't that reliable since he's very slow and is extremely easy to burn, even if could be a suicidal WoW"
I will not deny, this sounds like a promising idea; Let me tell you a secret: I've choose Thunderbolt just because commodity, as my Latios already carries him and I was too lazy to switch moves (YES, even Surf), and when Azu shows the threat he would be to this team, I decided to keep Tb where he is, but with Seed Bomb on Chesnaught, TB becomes a redundant coverage. Aside from hitting those things you already said, there's no much reason to run it anymore, and the Keldeo's otherside is also 100% true. What I'm trying to say is that I WILL try Surf over Thunderbolt, just give me some time and I will come back with the answer.
It's nice to see people starting to realize Diancie's power since it's kinda hard choose her with other more popular megas out there... I know the tiers updates just came out, but you can write my words: I only will rest in peace when I see Diancie in OU again.
To be honest, I needed time to digest your comment; It was like a punch in the guts at first, suggesting me to replace Mag with Ferro, but then I came back with an refreshed mind and think again, and that's what I came up with:
Your idea isn't bad per say, but there's some things that took my imagination, first off Magnezone: Yea the meta has definitively prepared for him, but this doesn't necessarily make him unworthy on this team; Like I said to gnr61, now I'm testing Surf on Latios rather than TB, and thrus if I remove Mag now, every Flying type will have a party on this team, and THIS is what bothers me... You see, Magnezone main job is indeed trap and kill shit that Diancie fear, but you forgot his other main reason: CHECK BIRD SPAM; Replacing him with Ferro would leave Diancie alone to check every single Flying type in OU like Talonflame, Pinsir, Hawlucha (already a problem), Staraptor and Tornadus-T... And let's not forget that, even without mega evolution, Diancie's HP is pretty bad; So horrible that things like this happens:
252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Return vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Diancie: 87-102 (36 - 42.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Of course, Pinsir would be using EQ or CC instead, but this is just for show how NORMAL Diancie, with his 50/150/150 defenses, hold a resisted move. On top of that, removing Mag also would shatter my Fairy/Steel/Dragon already so well
structured, so basically Mag cannot leave this team, but this also brings me to my 2nd conclusion: Redundancy
Counter rain teams, check Scizor & Azu and being a Grass type tank, what this remember to you? Chesnaught. Before everyone start to trown rocks at me, let me say: Yes, I stay at Chesnaught's side countless times, he's good and everything, but in all seriousness, Ferrothorn just appears as an better solution for this team specifically. Like you said, SR is def. a thing that Bisharp loves having on the other side, many more kills can be accomplished by the chip damage and now I can counter Azu, all at the same time while also running Power Whip to 2HKO Swampert. It's technically true that Chesnaught can check many more things than Ferro on this team, but since most of those "things" can also be handed by the rest of my team, instead of switching Magnezone I will choose to try Ferrothorn over Chesnaught, however I still need to say: Using your own argument, Scizor also isn't bothered even a little by Ferro, in fact, they generally uses you as a setup fodder to SD while you can't do nothing other than TW him.
This makes me a little sad since I really like of putting creative things on my teams, and Chesnaught is an awesome mon, but Ferro just seems like a better idea in terms of performance, so I will replace him temporarily and then decide whatever or not I like the most. But hold on, not everything is a bed of roses since now I need to talk about this:
And that's what we call 50/50's my friend. Sure, Bisharp put a ton of pressure on Lati@s, but he's job isn't pressure defoggers?, and Latios and Latias aren't the best defoggers in the tier? Besides, Mega Latias can't touch Bisharp, so wouldn't be nice if I could kill her before she destroys my team early on?. If Lati@s uses TB, Surf and even EQ expecting Bisharp, you should know that him survives any of them at least one time... After you are around 40/30%, the most obvious play is to use Surf again to KO you, and where is when you use SP and OHKOes them; Then you can say: "But if they switch out, what you're gonna do?".
First of all, believe or not, they mostly tend to stay and kill you, so have this on mind the next time you think to use Pursuit, and second, this isn't different of any other prediction you could do in any other battle, with this team or not... Are situations like this where you have to pick an side and pray for the best, since like even you said it's really hard to tell what are on the other player's head, so you just need to have luck. About SD I already told my opinion on this thread, so I'll shamelessly Ctrl+C from my previous post:
"Pursuit was the main reason I choose Bisharp over Talonflame... Without it how I suppose to trap and kill Mega Latias?, Bisharp only can switch one time in front of Lati@s, so I wouldn't have another chance to kill her. Also I think SD on Bisharp isn't that reliable since he's very slow and is extremely easy to burn, even if could be a suicidal WoW"
Unfortunately, you can only get so creative in OU. Chesnaught is definitely a good mon, but Ferro is better vor this team IMO. I'll reply again tomorrow when I have computer access, curretntly writing this from Wii U.
My apologies in advance for the double post, but after some intense brainstorming, I came to a good conclusion as to great support for Mega Diancie. Don't get me wrong, your team is indeed great, but it just has those problems with Azumarill, Greninja, and Mega Manectric. The thing is, your Pokémon are Choiced Scarved because they're worried about speed. This makes them lose out on a lot of power, and they can't reliably kill stuff as easily. I have concluded that Sticky Web is actually an extremely good fit for Mega Diancie. Greninja and Sceptile are the fastest threats that Diancie would be able to check, and Sticky Web reduces 252+ Greninja's speed to 251, and 252+ Sceptile's to 284. Naive Diancie only needs to run a mere 16 EVs in speed to outspeed Greninja and Sceptile after Sticky Web. This can free up a moveslot on Diancie - Hidden Power Fire, Psyshock, Heal Bell! With HP Fire, you'd be able to predict a Scizor switch-in, and kill it. You'd be able to invest in HP. The team would need a bit of reworking, but I'm definitely going to try something out before confirming that it works.
I've said this quite often in other threads, but I'm by no means a Pokémon expert, so I could definitely be wrong here. Your team's definitely solid if it reached #11...and to be honest, if my team was that high, I wouldn't need it rated. Reaching the top 500, for me, even, would be amazing. I'd say your team is already a success, so...I dunno. :P
I've said this quite often in other threads, but I'm by no means a Pokémon expert, so I could definitely be wrong here. Your team's definitely solid if it reached #11...and to be honest, if my team was that high, I wouldn't need it rated. Reaching the top 500, for me, even, would be amazing. I'd say your team is already a success, so...I dunno. :P
Well, sorry for the late response, but like I said now I'm playing the Battle Institute for BP (to buy items to this and other teams).
So, Sticky Web huh... Not a bad idea, but it's a radical one; What I suppose to switch on this team to fit something like Galvantula or Shuckle? Have you already tried yourself?. I could potentially try something like this, but how are your tests? (if you are doing them like you said you would), plz let me know.