Both of them are blacklisted so if you feel like discussing them don't. On a more serious note how about discussing pinsir's rank I think it should be somewhere in the B rank. SD/X-scissor/earthquake/stone edge provides good coverage and it's resistance to priority(the only one that hammers it is fletchinder's acrobatics). The ability is mostly mold breaker for unaware quagsire but the other 2 have there own merits. Hyper cutter blocks intimidate from qwilfish and hitmontop. Moxie is actually useful for picking of weakened threats and getting an attack boost for times you can't set up a SD."Sighs" I wish we could remove shitmonchan and assipom all together but new players that don't know any better sadly, keep them in.
You must not have played with Cress in the tier in BW http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/pester-ball.3475133/. Though, I'd agree that there wasn't much point in using it when Alomofish became dominant at the end.Pinsir was already a really bad pokemon in gen 5 RU because it was pretty weak and couldn't get past steel types and bulky water like Qwilfish without a lot of boosts. These problems still exist in gen 6 and common new pokes such as Mega-Lix and Alomomola are real problems to Pinsir, and Moltres still is one of its best checks. I guess the fact that Cress is so common is good for it as it can set up on it but apart from that it doesnt have a lot going for it. Pinsir is a bad pkmn, and even if it sets up it's easily revenge killed due to its poor speed tier and mediocre bulk.
I guess it could have a place in C or D rank, but it should drop to NU anyways so yeah...
Base 70 spdef is much better then base 48. Scyther doesn't exactly outclass it as scyther is mostly a pivot and pinsir is a wall breaker. Durant also gets lit up by heliolisk and durant can't switch into rotom mow because thunderbolt wrecks it. Escavalier is mostly a pursuit trapper and pinsir is not. Just because they have the same typing doesn't mean they fill the same role.If Pinsir had a SDef stat it'd have something over Durant. It does not. Not getting trapped by Magneton isn't a relevant enough niche in this meta, so it pretty much just has earthquake to break Qwilfish, at the price of not having stab Iron Head to break Rhyperior (and getting ohkoed back). SD Quick Attack without Aerialate is just gross.
Not that I think Durant makes all other physical bugs obsolete, Scyther and Escavalier are 2 pokemon that are pretty good + not outclassed. But the situations where Pinsir is better than Durant are way too rare to make it worth running. 109 Speed + SR neutral is way too good to pass up for EQ coverage.
Also Oglemi, Pinsir gets lit up by Heliolisk. And it can't switch into Leaf Storms, because it's really fragile.
It's a higher stat, sure, but considering that Steel actually grants useful resistances and neutrals... it's just better.Base 70 spdef is better then base 48. Scyther doesn't exactly outclass it as scyther is mostly a pivot and pinsir is a wall breaker. Durant also gets lit up by heliolisk and durant can't switch into rotom mow because thunderbolt wrecks it.
Even with those resistances granted by steel typing durant takes up to half from a resisted special move.It's a higher stat, sure, but considering that Steel actually grants useful resistances and neutrals... it's just better.
Scyther has two SD sets that work as wallbreakers.
He never argued that Durant can take on those, he responded to Oglemi's notion that Pinsir pairs well with Gatr because it can supposedly beats Gatr's checks. Which Durant does better, due to the speed. Neither can really switch in, but Durant beats the checks better.
Pinsir's only niche really is like Mold Breaker SD/Stealth Rocks, but neither Xatu nor Quagsire is any relevant. ScarfMoxie is horrible, and Hyper cutter allows it to take on qwilfish I guess but that's it really.
except that the same happens with PinsirEven with those resistances granted by steel typing durant takes up to half from a resisted special move.
Yeah, sure, i was a bit excessive when it comes to my words, but i still think Exploud is not a A Rank.Exploud is a wallbreaker first and foremost, so it not being lightning fast isn't a completely hindrance for it considering with max Speed investment, it can outspeed every wall it needs to. Furthermore, watch how you toss around the words "frail" and "piss weak" because neither of those things describe Exploud.
252 SpA Choice Specs Jolteon Thunderbolt vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Exploud: 255-300 (72.8 - 85.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
It can survive most powerful neutral hits at full health, that isn't frail at all. In fact, I'd say it's difficult to OHKO Exploud without using a Fighting move or an opposing wallbreaker.
The only time Exploud doesn't use Boomburst is when it's anticipating a switch to a sturdy normal resist, and even then, calling it pissweak is a ridiculous hyperbole considering with the right coverage, it can at the very least, 2HKO all of those proper resists. If it couldn't do that, you'd be correct in calling it weak.
Moltres and Pangoro leaving made stall significantly more viable, a playstyle that Exploud thrives against. In general, this meta can afford to slow down and not aim for the Jolly Pangoro benchmark, and thus you can see a significant rise in slower, tankier teams. Exploud was already a good Pokemon in and of itself well before the tier changes, but given how the meta changed to favor it, there's really little reason not to move it up. Nothing you said about Exploud is even factually true anyway; "weak" and "frail" aren't words you should use to denote this Pokemon.
Houndoom was moved up because it was underrated before and is really solid. The increased power of defensive teams makes it better too, since it can NP and fry pretty much everything, and it can ohko dugtrio with Sucker Punch. Idk exactly why Camerupt moved down, but I'd guess it's probably because it's very slow and doesn't take attacks as well as it would need to at that speed, and it gets skewered by hazards. Being able to tank Pangoro Knock Offs moderately well isn't a valuable niche any more either. Basically, idk.Just out of interest, why has Houndoom moved up yet Camerupt moved down? I would guess Mega-Rupt has moved down due to Sheer Force Gatr but surely Houndoom is destroyed by that as well.
I mean, CB pinsir is also unwallable for the most part, but what's notable is that SD Pinsir-whose direct comparison is HC Durant-can take it down, fares much better against Mola. In fact, it's also capable of taking down Tangrowth, something else Durant can struggle with. Of course, if Durant had Earthquake for a coverage move, it'd be capable of smashing those things with X-scissor too, but it doesn't; Superpower won't touch Doublade so that's the difference maker.tehy
252 Atk Choice Band Hustle Durant X-Scissor vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 208-246 (52.7 - 62.4%)
It's not a counter, man. And nothing really walls cb ant except mola, so it's not a knock on quaggy, but just sayin.
There's no reason to rank it yet, as we're just theorymonning here with what it can do since it just dropped. I can't really see it on par with the likes of Houndoom and Slowking, but if what Nails and tehy are saying is true in practice, Pinsir seems like it will end up in the mid to low B ranks.Where do you think Pinsir should go? Personally I think A at least due to its solid movepool and stats.
No way in hell lol. Pinsir was a pretty mediocre Pokemon last gen, and while it may have some decent usefulness this generation with its Mold Breaker ability and wallbreaking potential, it's still faces heavy competition from Durant on top of having a lot of flaws in general. 85 Speed isn't terrible, but most offensive Pokemon outspeed it, and Pinsir has no priority outside of Quick Attack which is doesn't have room for. It also makes it very difficult for Pinsir to sweep offensive teams. It's not frail on the physical side, but it's special defense is pretty underwhelming and its defensive typing gives it very little set up opportunities.Where do you think Pinsir should go? Personally I think A at least due to its solid movepool and stats.
True, but Doublade will likely leave soon, going by its usage in UU.Running a durant that can't touch Doublade at all is absurd imo. I would be extremely pleased to face an opponent who used that set.
The new usage based tiering system has monthly updates now, and if a Pokemon has over 6.7% usage in an upper tier, it will rise. That's what he was referring to. It's not completely out of the picture, but it would be a month away.Doublade probably isn't leaving and if it is that's almost two months away. I don't think the possibility is currently relevant.