Resource RU Viability Ranking Thread: Abomasnow and Slowking Discussion

[Natural Talent]

On Durant to S it's honestly far from S rank as it has so many flaws that prevent it from going up. As noted durant can't switch in on anything like even aromatisse comes close to 2hkoing it (0 SpA Aromatisse Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Durant: 90-107 (35 - 41.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock). Secondly one of durant's other problems is hustle which does give it a lot of power it has a nasty side effect of making every attack durant runs as accurate as stone edge.

All you did was post a useless calc and say it can miss. That literally means nothing to me. Aromatics is not staying in on a durant and if it does, it's either dying or getting set up on.

i mean virizion isn't exactly the strongest mon ever so i dont get why you're making that comparison. durant IS frail af and most attacks from revenge killers can easily KO it (example: 252 SpA Jolteon Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Durant: 234-276 (91 - 107.3%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO). Mega steelix is like everywhere and that can pivot in on durant pretty convincingly and destroy it. Hell, all the S and A+ ranks can do more than 50% to it (and a sizable chunk can KO outright after a little prior damage). We still have alom for stuff like semistall which can pivot around pretty much every durant set ever. And qwilfish is a great check to w/e durant set; while Thunder Fang sucks for it idk if anyone even runs that anymore lol. It's actually pretty hard to see what this thing switches on without getting 2HKOed aside from like Aromatisse. Also, I think it was nommed to A+ earlier and rejected? W/e, defos against durant to S.

All of its coverages can be used, emphasis on Tournament play. Jolteon is out sped and killed by scarfed sets.

'Hell, all the S and A+ ranks can do more than 50% to it'

Literally durant kills or sets up on everything in these ranks and even lower, Also none of them can even switch in to its attacks.

 

[P is For Penguin]

---> A :

In the current meta i find glalie not to be great, its still decent but i feel it does not hold its own with the other S mons. We also have sneasel in this tier which at most times can fill the same roles as glalie while also being able to have knock off. At the same time by running Glalie that takes up the mega slot which could be occupied by another mega. Back to the main point, the current meta is really revolving around to favoring more offensive teams which favor hazard stacking (balance can also sometimes have this) while being weak to SR glalie's longevity is greatly limited add this to spike stacking and its effectiveness is extremely limited. Also the fact that mega steelix completely destroys it (because i havent seen eq since coba left) is another big factor with that arguably being the most common mega and being run on teams for a tyrantrum switchin. The last factor is that the current meta is turning into another fighting favorable meta where fight spam is common and these mons tend to carry moves that glalie is weak to such as mach/bullet punch.

 

[Cheryl.]

Escavalier from B+ to A-: I agree with this, I used to think Escav was not so great, but I find it very useful. It checks so much things, like Mega Glailie and Meloetta, and Venomoth too, while also hitting like a frickin' truck with it's 135 attack stat. It also is a really nice counter to things that annoy me, like Amoongus, thanks to Overcoat. It can act as a really good wallbreaker with Choice Band, a nice tank with Assault Vest, or a really good stallbreaker with SD Resttalk, so it doesn't get shitted by Scald burns. Problems are it's low speed, and it gets worn down easily, but Escav is finally a bit more justifiable on teams now with Venomoth here, so it should move up to A-.

Jellicent from A+ to A: Agree with this, Jelli has fallen out of favor lately, as offensive teams are on the rise, and threats like Virizion and Scrafty are still as popular as they've always been. It's still a neat stop to Mega Glailie and a few other things, but it's not the best, so I think it should drop.

Amoonguss from B to B+: I'm not sure about Guss, it's really annoying with Spore and has Regenerator to keep it alive, and it has a good typing that lets it be a good check to Fighting and Fairy types, but it's a bit passive and also really slow, and faces competition from Tangrowth, but the popularity of stuff like Meloetta, Ice types, and Escavalier hurts it a lot. Don't really care if it rises or not, but I think it's fine in B.

Fletchinder from A- to A: Agree, Fletch is so nice as it can revenge Fighting types like Scrafty, and it can hurt Grasses and also revenge kill frailer weakened mons too. A lot of it's checks and counters like Tyrantrum and Rhyperior don't like burns, unless Tyrantrum is Lum Berry. The SR weakness means it has to have support, and it's also really frail without Eviolite, but Fletch is very nice right now due to Fighting types being so popular and definetely should rise.

Now for my own nomination:

Mega Steelix for S
While the presence of stuff like Flygon hurts it, I feel like right now MegaLix is S rank material, it's very splashable thanks to it checking a lot of stuff, like Sneasel and Tyrantrum and Aromatisse, and it has SR to support the team. It can invest in special defense to take more special hits thanks to it's physical defense being stupid high already, and it has a neat offensive presence with Heavy Slam and Earthquake to pose a threat. While no recovery can hurt it and the weaknesses to types like Fire, Ground, and Fighting hurts it a bit, I think mega Steelix has so many positive points that it's about back to the throne it had before. MegaLix for S.

 

[Natural Talent]

Natural Talent uh no what is Durant even setting up on? Of course you're scouting its sets before you send out a jolteon lol it really has only LO, CB or scarf so if you don't see recoil you can just calc the dmg and go from there. I addressed it being a huge threat to defensive teams which I rlly don't find it to be. You didn't address any of my points and setting up on stuff below A (which I'm still not sure what it is) seems like a weird argument since a lot (read: NOT ALL, IM NOT TALKING ABOUT STUFF LIKR QWILFISH BUT THAT CHECKS DURANT ANYWAY). I'm also not sure what your point about a tournament setting is; yes, Durant is high risk-high reward and prediction reliant, moreso than other mons; how is this anything but a negative? If you manage to guess the switch in and bop it (which hustle reduces your odds of, didn't mention that before rip), then great, otherwise you have a sr- and spikes-prone Mon potentially coming in with life orb recoil too. Sorry if this came off as dismissive but I don't get the nom is all.

Edit- u also have subpass but lefties is a dead giveaway

What makes Durant high risk? Also, Durant can us lum berry to bluff choice until it fins the right moment to set up... I mean Durant literally threatens all play styles. Durant is by no means a high risk mon. Didn't know 80% is risky, that's more accurate than focus blast. It has great coverage which can act as a surprise factor since you'd really have to be banking it on being a certain set until you find out. If you can name me one thing that is a guaranteed switch in (not 2hko'd by any of it's coverages, that can do something back to it and not allowing it to either set up if it's HC). We all know it has checks, the sad part is it's checks are usually scarfers tho. It's an amazing threat to balance and with support it's a straight beast.

The only set that has guaranteed checks would be scarf sets since it's locked in to a move (but you still have to scout and if you predict wrong something is taking big damage).

It literally has no checks that can switch in instead it has to be out-sped and killed.

 

[aVocado]

You can't bluff choice with lum, the damage would be a dead giveaway. Durant is really good against offense cuz it outspeeds virizion by one point which is crucial, and outspeeds Flygon/Delphox/Houndoom and can tank a hit from Sneasel.. case in point is it's speed is fucking amazing and it's pretty powerful but it's damn frail and can be revenge killed really easily by scarf delphox which is really good, and can be kept in check by bulky waters which are pretty much a staple on any balance/stall team atm between Alomomola, Jellicent, and Qwilfish.

Sneasel is also quite common and it does a hefty chunk of damage with knock off, which when combined with SR and LO damage results in a dead Durant.

It's a really good mon but between hustle making it semi-unreliable, shit bulk, the fact that 2 good mons atm outspeed it and most scarfers shit on it, and Mola/Jellicent being good mons it doesn't really look like an S-rank mon for me.

 

[tehy]

i'd like to reiterate that defensive teams can in no way deal with durant without using something subpar which can still lose to certain variants of Durant, or Jellicent (still sort of loses to Crunch / Thunder Fang)

alomomola basically gets run over and maybe hits it back with a scald, only if it's LO and the burn procs is this really a great scenario. M-lix really won't like taking a superpower to the face, and if it switches in on a hone claws it isn't going to win (hone again on the EQ, superpower for the KO).

it's got its flaws, but holy shit...in so many situations, durant is just such a beast. A+ at the minimum, personally.

 

[Natural Talent]

You can't bluff choice with lum, the damage would be a dead giveaway. Durant is really good against offense cuz it outspeeds virizion by one point which is crucial, and outspeeds Flygon/Delphox/Houndoom and can tank a hit from Sneasel.. case in point is it's speed is fucking amazing and it's pretty powerful but it's damn frail and can be revenge killed really easily by scarf delphox which is really good, and can be kept in check by bulky waters which are pretty much a staple on any balance/stall team atm between Alomomola, Jellicent, and Qwilfish.

Sneasel is also quite common and it does a hefty chunk of damage with knock off, which when combined with SR and LO damage results in a dead Durant.

It's a really good mon but between hustle making it semi-unreliable, shit bulk, the fact that 2 good mons atm outspeed it and most scarfers shit on it, and Mola/Jellicent being good mons it doesn't really look like an S-rank mon for me.

ah yes , because choice scarf gives attack boosts. Also, why would durant be a the sneasel switch in. And you just made my point about how it's only checked by scarfers and like jolteon are the only durant checks . What aren't you getting about bulk water getting bopped by thunder fang? and jellicent can get bopped by crunch if you wanna hit bronzong

Edit : Skip to turn 40, http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ru-254340312

 

[col49]

i'm gonna toss in my opinion and say that durant is really, really good. like, literally the only time it won't have inherently high value in a match-up is if you're running scarf v.hard stall or something, and even then it retains the capacity to scare stuff out and pick up momentum via bp, realistically even sneak in on a weak knock off and take pot shots at their bulky water / 'lix from there for a partner. it's speed tier is really nice for offense, regardless of sneasel being a thing (who is as good as it is due in no small part to being faster than durant, so tryna flip that on its head to act like its a con for durant is iffy with me, especially given sneasel requires a bit more 'maintenance' to function, whereas durant is splashable as fuck), it's typing provides a slew on useful traits (including glalie check, virizion check, faerie / growth beater, something to play into 'lix / zonger), and the fact that it can run sets that net so much value (lo / cb shreds balance, scarf shreds offense, subpass does a little of both, etc.) makes it something that you actually have to be aware of no matter what you're building for. yes, it can miss, but you can't build a team potentially 6-0ed by durant and say "oh, it'll miss eventually", just like you couldn't use a calm momo as your moltres check and say "oh, he won't hit 2 hurricanes", b.c proper building doesn't work that way. also, you can totally bluff choice w/lum, b.c if players are anything like me, they'd figure scarf to be the more conventional choice item, and while adamant scarf is certainly better in a lot of cases (which is a neat reason why insect plate is also v.cool at this time, but i'll save that for another day), jolly does have it's merits in this meta as well, particularly on heavier offense, wherein you don't want to risk losing out the end-game to a scarf delphox or offhand jolly scarfgon outpacing.

so, uh, yeah, i'd be totally down with durant being s, but do w.e i guess haha

 

[aVocado]

ah yes , because choice scarf gives attack boosts. Also, why would durant be a the sneasel switch in. And you just made my point about how it's only checked by scarfers and like jolteon are the only durant checks . What aren't you getting about bulk water getting bopped by thunder fang? and jellicent can get bopped by crunch if you wanna hit bronzong

What moveset are we assuming here, cuz any moveset can be checked by one or a combination of mega camerupt, steelix, any bulky water, and any scarfer.

I forgot about lum bluffing scarf tho so my bad on that.

 

[Natural Talent]

What moveset are we assuming here, cuz any moveset can be checked by one or a combination of mega camerupt, steelix, any bulky water, and any scarfer.

I forgot about lum bluffing scarf tho so my bad on that.

my main point is that any combo of moves gets countered by a combo of mons, but it takes scouting and there's always the pontetioal of scouting wrong and getting bopped by a coverage and clearing a hole for another mon. it can utilize it's coverage vs offense and balance and win with sheer power, while on stall you can scare out one thing and get a free set up and try and win. You needing to guess it's set already puts you at a disadvantage. A main set i'd say i'd use or i can see doing damage to standard teams :

This is just my opinion of the ideal set.

Durant @ Lum Berry / Life Orb
Ability: Hustle
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Iron Head
- Hone Claws
- Superpower (needed to hit steels and camerupt)
- Thunder Fang / Crunch / Rock Slide / X- Scissor (literally pick your coverage to beat a certain mon or team depending depending on either your team build or your support.)

Your coverage is really what makes it good and unpredictable, iv'e had people send in qwilfish thinking it cans top me and just straight destroy them with thunder fang.

X- Scissor or the though of it having X- Scissor can scare meloetta and other psychics out and give you a free turn at some points.

only switch in i can think of , 252 Atk Hustle Durant Thunder Fang vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Delphox: 123-145 (42.2 - 49.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO, gets 2hko'd after rocks

 

[Punchshroom]

Durant is easily one of the most defining threatening attackers in RU. Between its Hone Claws set with Iron Head, Superpower, and Thunder Fang netting perfect neutral coverage (you don't really need Crunch because Bronzong still stands a good chance to lose on the switch), or its all-out attacker set with X-Scissor > Hone Claws to just KO stuff off the bat (most notably cleanly OHKOing Meloetta and offensive Tangrowth), it is remarkably difficult to stop Durant from simply punching holes into shit. Add to its Scarf set which outspeeds practically everything in the tier and threatens a wide variety of boosted mons (including stuff like Rock Polish Tyrantrum), and SubPass which can mess with people, and Durant certainly boasts a lot of offensive versatility, very much comparable or even arguably superior to the likes of Flygon and Meloetta.

Honestly the only real flaw with Durant is that it can barely switch into anything at all (Aromatisse's Moonblast does a large chunk D:), but when you're not switching into things, Durant's typing does give it a number of opportunities to start doing major damage. Hustle can be a pain, but when you consider the threat of Hone Claws and the fact that accuracy never prevented Moltres from being a massive threat, it's not something to consistently brood over. Durant is very rarely deadweight even with a predictable moveset, which is a trait that the other S Ranks have.

 

[Kingler]

Alright, wanna reply to the post that quoted me. Yes it is high risk because literally every time you're using a move it's like using stone edge; this in itself is an inherent risk and it's clearly visible when using scarf durant; either you have a pretty unreliable revenge killer or a weak ass mon that can't do much damage to anything. I mean, something that barely 2HKOes 0/0 meloetta with a STAB Iron Head is pretty lol worthy. While Lum + HC durant is a very legit point that was brought up, a lot of teams will carry stuff like Scarf Emboar, Sneasel, Jolteon, any scarfer pretty much ohkoes it (aside from scarf durant!!). offensive stuff like Tangrowth can pivot in on it and take a hit if the situation is that dire (+1 252 Atk Life Orb Hustle Durant Iron Head vs. 132 HP / 0 Def Tangrowth: 278-329 (74.3 - 87.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO, and let's be honest, no ones running x scissor lol). This is not to mention that it switches on p much 0. This thing is threatening af to like any given team, true, and it might be like A+ but S seems like wayyy too much of a stretch.

idk i dont find durant that much of a 'check' to anything despite its decent def stat and it's pretty much a glass cannon but i feel like sneasel (something that was brought up here) gives you more utility in general (knock off, priority is awesome, pursuit is great, etc.) so ya

EDIT- also it only gets those important kos on like megarupt at +1 and stuff with LO, and it needs lum to bluff scarf/set up on qwilfish so it's pick your poison in a lot of cases

 

[tmacbalanced]

Fletchinder from A- to A does seem like a good idea due to the fighting spam, Venomoth, & Durant (you need a dance up in order to have a chance to OHKO it though.) I feel like he'll be a great stop to sweepers & be good for cherry picking fighting types. A problem for this though is Mega Steelix, great switch-in and brings up momentum with stealth rocks. So, essentially it's tough for it to revenge kill. So it does need a good amount of support to take down the glass cannons. And if Fletchinder rises, then we might see a rise in Jolteon too. Also, if people might run Braviary more often to take on Flygon so you have a tougher time to clear the rocks for Fletchinder. Essentially, a back & forth.

 

[Mega-Pokebattlerz]

Okay, this may seem like a shitpost but why is Mega Glalie S-Rank? It seems a bit pointless to waste your Mega slot on a suicide lead, if you ask me. You're better off using a mega that can sweep things like Mega Camerupt or wall things like Mega Steelix.

 

[Da Pizza Man]

Okay, this may seem like a shitpost but why is Mega Glalie S-Rank? It seems a bit pointless to waste your Mega slot on a suicide lead, if you ask me. You're better off using a mega that can sweep things like Mega Camerupt or wall things like Mega Steelix.

Mega Glaile can function as a wallbreaker, and it is pretty damn good at that job. Ice is a really good offensive typing and Mega Glaile can do a lot of damage thanks to its Refrigerate Double-Edge/Return, having access to priority and Freeze dry are also really good. And like you said, Mega Glaile can also function as a suicide lead, and Refrigerate Explosion does a shit ton of damage to most pokemon in the tier

 

[Mega-Pokebattlerz]

Mega Glaile can function as a wallbreaker, and it is pretty damn good at that job. Ice is a really good offensive typing and Mega Glaile can do a lot of damage thanks to its Refrigerate Double-Edge/Return, having access to priority and Freeze dry are also really good. And like you said, Mega Glaile can also function as a suicide lead, and Refrigerate Explosion does a shit ton of damage to most pokemon in the tier

Never knew that. Still, why do people even use it as a suicide lead? I know refrigerate Explosion hits like a truck, but...

 

[Talpr0ne]

Never knew that. Still, why do people even use it as a suicide lead? I know refrigerate Explosion hits like a truck, but...

It's almost never used as a suicide lead. Even those sets that use Spikes usually lay them down midgame.

 

[Funbot28]

Anyways I would like to make my own nom:

A+ to S: Venomoth is an incredible mon in the RU tier since it dropped down. It is probably one of the best setup sweepers in the tier, as +1 Tinted Lens Bug Buzz does alot to key threats in the meta. It also has access to Sleep Powder which gives it plenty of opportunities to setup on opposing mons. Yes it is frail in Def, leaving it susceptible to priority in Fletchinder and Mega Glalie, but Veno is such a threat in the meta, making teams required to run priority to deal with it. With this I believe it should warrant a rise to S imo.

 

[rau]

Anyways I would like to make my own nom:

A+ to S: Venomoth is an incredible mon in the RU tier since it dropped down. It is probably one of the best setup sweepers in the tier, as +1 Tinted Lens Bug Buzz does alot to key threats in the meta. It also has access to Sleep Powder which gives it plenty of opportunities to setup on opposing mons. Yes it is frail in Def, leaving it susceptible to priority in Fletchinder and Mega Glalie, but Veno is such a threat in the meta, making teams required to run priority to deal with it. With this I believe it should warrant a rise to S imo.

Venomoth's defense doesn't just make it susceptible to priority, but to most physical attacks in general. This mostly applies in the case of offensive teams, where Venomoth usually finds setting up difficult as it risks getting KOd when switching in. What hampers it even more is the x2 weakness to Stealth Rock, making it even easier to KO. What I will admit is that it is a pain to deal with against slower/defensive teams, making Venomoth a huge threat to those playstyles. As of now, I think Venomoth is ok where it is, that being A+.

 

[Lord Death Man]

Can we please not talk suspects overhear.

Anyways I would like to make my own nom:

A+ to S: Venomoth is an incredible mon in the RU tier since it dropped down. It is probably one of the best setup sweepers in the tier, as +1 Tinted Lens Bug Buzz does alot to key threats in the meta. It also has access to Sleep Powder which gives it plenty of opportunities to setup on opposing mons. Yes it is frail in Def, leaving it susceptible to priority in Fletchinder and Mega Glalie, but Veno is such a threat in the meta, making teams required to run priority to deal with it. With this I believe it should warrant a rise to S imo.

Absolutely agree with this nom, but it's not really that frail to Glalie's (rather weak) priority, and it resists Mach Punch and can be incredibly dangerous to attempt a sucker punch. It's real flaws are that it has to pick and choose which of it's now-common threats it beats, but that's not as big of a choice as it seems - it's more "Do I want sub to ease predictions and set up on Amoonguss/Scald Users?", "Do I want Sludge Bomb to hit every resist except Escavalier?" and "Do I want HP Fire for Escavalier?", which is only sort of a flaw, and that Fletchinder and Escavalier, it's two most reliable checks, also happen to check a lot of other very good mons. Also Sleep Powder misses suck.

It's not as easily revenge killed as many other set up sweepers, even, because you have to rely on a scarf that's base 90 or over - Meloetta, Durant, Delphox or Flygon, all of whom have to lock themselves into an unfavorable move to revenge (have a trapper? Meloetta/Delphox is dead, Durant is using Iron Head, and both of Flygon's stabs have immunities), Fletch, semi unreliable Sucker Punch guesses (none of which KO after just rocks), or weak Ice Shards that can only KO with some serious prior damage. And, because of Sleep Powder, Venomoth can often get by without having taken that damage.

Venomoth's defense doesn't just make it susceptible to priority, but to most physical attacks in general. This mostly applies in the case of offensive teams, where Venomoth usually finds setting up difficult as it risks getting KOd when switching in. What hampers it even more is the x2 weakness to Stealth Rock, making it even easier to KO. What I will admit is that it is a pain to deal with against slower/defensive teams, making Venomoth a huge threat to those playstyles. As of now, I think Venomoth is ok where it is, that being A+.

Venomoth has an decent speed tier, good to great defensive typing, and Sleep Powder, meaning it can usually set up on at least two seperate mons on an opponent's team. It has incredibly synergy with nearly every other good offensive mon in the tier, bar maybe Glalie - just offhand, Flygon, Scrafty, Meloetta, Virizion and Sneasel all often lure in easy set up opportunities for Venomoth unless their revenge killer is Fletchinder, and Fletch isn't exactly good at coming in multiple times to check things. 90 Base Speed outspeeds something on almost every team, which Venomoth can then put to sleep, giving it tons of set up chances even against offense. Nearly every grass type (ie sleep immune) mon is afraid of it's dual stab combo or the risk of substitute. Even a poorly played Venomoth will often get the chance to drop a sleep on something and severaly dent something else because it's just so good with 3 moves. Venomoth is a tier-defining threat and totally worthy of S.

Edit: I sort of overhyped Venomoth and it's speed tier and typing, but they're both good for what it's trying to do.

 

[ManOfMany]

Absolutely agree with this nom, but it's not really that frail to Glalie's (rather weak) priority, and it resists Mach Punch and can be incredibly dangerous to attempt a sucker punch. It's real flaws are that it has to pick and choose which of it's now-common threats it beats, but that's not as big of a choice as it seems - it's more "Do I want sub to ease predictions and set up on Amoonguss/Scald Users?", "Do I want Sludge Bomb to hit every 4x resist except Escavalier?" and "Do I want HP Fire for Escavalier?", which is only sort of a flaw, and that Fletchinder and Escavalier, it's two most reliable checks, also happen to check a lot of other very good mons. Also Sleep Powder misses suck.

It's not as easily revenge killed as many other set up sweepers, even, because you have to rely on a scarf that's base 90 or over - Meloetta, Durant, Delphox or Flygon, all of whom have to lock themselves into an unfavorable move to revenge (have a trapper? Meloetta/Delphox is dead, Durant is using Iron Head, and both of Flygon's stabs have immunities), Fletch, semi unreliable Sucker Punch guesses (none of which KO after just rocks), or weak Ice Shards that can only KO with some serious prior damage. And, because of Sleep Powder, Venomoth can often get by without having taken that damage.


Venomoth has an decent speed tier, good to great defensive typing, and Sleep Powder, meaning it can usually set up on at least two seperate mons on an opponent's team. It has incredibly synergy with nearly every other good offensive mon in the tier, bar maybe Glalie - just offhand, Flygon, Scrafty, Meloetta, Virizion and Sneasel all often lure in easy set up opportunities for Venomoth unless their revenge killer is Fletchinder, and Fletch isn't exactly good at coming in multiple times to check things. 90 Base Speed outspeeds something on almost every team, which Venomoth can then put to sleep, giving it tons of set up chances even against offense. Nearly every grass type (ie sleep immune) mon is afraid of it's dual stab combo or the risk of substitute. Even a poorly played Venomoth will often get the chance to drop a sleep on something and severaly dent something else because it's just so good with 3 moves. Venomoth is a tier-defining threat and totally worthy of S.

Edit: I sort of overhyped Venomoth and it's speed tier and typing, but they're both good for what it's trying to do.

Just want to correct you that Escavalier is only a 2x resist, not a 4x resist. I realized this when people switched their Durant into my Venomoth and they were cleanly OHKOd.

252 SpA Life Orb Tinted Lens Venomoth Bug Buzz vs. 174 HP / 0 SpD Escavalier: 140-169 (43.2 - 52.1%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

 

[citro]

How is this thing B rank?

Since trying to build a team with it over the last few days it's become painfully clear just how un-useful it is. Its 160 base Attack stat looks great at first but it cannot run a boosting item and it is let down by the low BP of its moves. To demonstrate

252 Atk Emboar Flare Blitz vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Togetic: 102-120 (32.5 - 38.3%) -- 97.3% chance to 3HKO

252+ Atk Mega Banette Shadow Claw vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Togetic: 81-96 (25.8 - 30.6%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

While Togetic may be a bad example because it is threatened by Gunk Shot, this basically demonstrates how Adamant Mega-Banette manages to threaten physical walls even less than a common Scarf pokemon with no boosting nature.

Banette has the hardest time getting its Mega off probably than any mon in the tier because it is so slow and thus needs Prankster activated before Will-O-Wisp or Taunt serve their purpose. It both wastes a Mega slot that could be used for Steelix, and fails to do one of the most crucial functions that Megas have, which is sponge Knock Off, since it is frail and weak to Dark. Priority Will-O-Wisp isn't even that good because so many set-up sweepers run Lum Berry or are Scrafty. Also both Will-O-Wisp and Destiny Bond require you to have sent out Banette earlier on in the match to work which is a huge flaw. I haven't even mentioned its 4MSS as it wants Will-O, Protect/Substitute, Pain Split, Destiny Bond, Taunt, Shadow Claw, Gunk Shot, Knock Off, Sucker Punch and probably more. It's outclassed by Spiritomb, Sneasel, and a bunch of other mons and isn't on par with the B and B- mons like Sawk, Piloswine, Granbull etc, all really solid mons with a clear niche

I think the flaws that I have mentioned as well as its poor matchup against many A and S rank mons like Houndoom are "crippling" enough for it to be placed in C+

 

[tehy]

can you name to me a single mon which actually walls meganette

that mon probably gets boned by knock + wisp wearing away at it

this is personally the difference between meganette and, say, emboar to me. it's also still got the prankster d-bond, prankster WoW, and all that.

i really don't see how it is outclassed by sneasel (weak, no gunk shot, no WoW, no Dbond), spiritomb (no nothing really). and i'd place it above all those other sorta trash mons you mentioned, personally

 

[rau]

Also, you've miscalced slightly, citro. Emboar DOES have a boosting nature at that.


252 Atk Reckless Emboar Flare Blitz vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Togetic: 121-144 (38.6 - 46%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Also I don't see why you'd compare it with Sawk since its purpose is more so utility/crippling rather than sweeping.

Edit: I goofed up. But still, you've forgotten Emboar does even more damage with Reckless, so there's something to prove your Banette doesn't hit as hard point.

 

[Lord Death Man]

While Banette's stab options suck a lot, Knock off and Gunk Shot almost makes up for that, WoW is useful even without prio to help wear down switch ins, it has decent (but not great) priority in Sucker Punch and Shadow Sneak, and some cool support options. I do think Banette, by being a Mega, is really hard to fit into teams and support, but by being on your team it really constrains how the opponent plays by threatening to stop a (potentially vital) sweep early, similarly to how Xatu can make the opponent scared to throw out hazards or status moves. I think B is fine for it because of that.

Just want to correct you that Escavalier is only a 2x resist, not a 4x resist. I realized this when people switched their Durant into my Venomoth and they were cleanly OHKOd.

252 SpA Life Orb Tinted Lens Venomoth Bug Buzz vs. 174 HP / 0 SpD Escavalier: 140-169 (43.2 - 52.1%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

I was thinking that what would normally be 4x resists would be relevant as resists at all - but I edited my original post to reflect what I meant and not what it read as. I didn't realize Venomoth did so much to non-AV Escavalier though, wow.

Edit: Bug doesn't resist bug I'm dumb