Pokémon Sableye

[Zalfi]

Sableye also can't switch into special/mixed Aegislash (the most threatening set), although it easily defeats SD versions.

Bold Sableye can switch into mixSlash if you run at least 104 SpD (108 at level 50):
252+ SpA Life Orb Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 104 SpD Sableye: 255-302 (83.8 - 99.3%)

at which point you can hopefully at least get a burn off. 0 Spd Sableye will outspeed min speed aegislash. It's not much but it's something. Plus I am pretty sure even without full defensive investment Sableye can handle non-fire type physical attackers quite well. I know for a fact that it still handles Kanga quite well.

 

[Prosecutor Godot]

I find that Sableye best works as a utility counter to prominent physical threats. It needs no support to work, and it beats Mega-Kanghaskan, SD Aegislash (but like Shroomisaur said, switching into a Special/Mixed Aegislash ruins Sableye), Mega-Lucario, Physical Genesect, some Tyranitar as well as walling Ferrothorn and Forretress.

 

[silfan]

Sableye is the best example of BST is not everything.
Seriously this thing has terrible stats, not even one of its stats is good and yet, it is very viable.

On Mega Lucario, Sableye can only check physical Mega Lucario. It can't go into NP Mega Lucario.
Also, Tyranitar have a chance to beat Sableye through Crunch-hax.

 

[MagicMissingno]

You know, on paper Sableye looks like a good mon for stall. Priority burns and recovery can go a long way plus it would make a good anti-taunter.

 

[Helix]

I am basically going this build but i am not sure of the item. Someone earlier said leftovers but that is currently in use by another physical wall. What other items would be good for this build:
Sableye
Ability: Prankster
Nature: Calm
252 HP/120 Def/136 SpD
-Taunt
-Will-o-Wisp
-Recover
-Foul Play

 

[silfan]

Bold with maxed Hp and Def is better imo.
Also, Sableye really needs Leftovers as it helps you to stall with WoW/Recover.
No other item can come close to Leftovers for Sableye :D

 

[Schpoonman]

Not so, silfan. Priority Will-O-Wisp lets you run more specially defensive. There aren't a lot of viable physical Fire-type attackers (Darmanitan, Victini, and Megazard X are the only I can think of) so anything that wants to switch in runs the risk of getting burnt. Agreed with Leftovers, because the instant Sableye stops running Choice Trick or Lagging Tail Trick is the day I sleep easier at night.

 

[silfan]

I am not really sure about the special defense investment, as Sableye really should not stay on special sweeper.
And regarding physical fire, you forgot about Talonflame, which is huge right now.

Choice Trick and Lagging Tail Trick has its uses, but what would you even replace from the moveset?
WoW and Recover is a must on Sableye. Taunt is also necessary to prevent setup.
Foul Play is to prevent pokemon like Espeon and Talonflame to switch in for free on you.
Not to mention what you Trick might not be good for Sableye. Black Sludge? Another Choice item? Assault Vest (lol)?

 

[PowerStyler]

at which point you can hopefully at least get a burn off. 0 Spd Sableye will outspeed min speed aegislash.

Uh...what? Aegislash has Base 60 speed to Sableye's Base 50. Unless Sableye invests in speed, Quiet Aegislash still outspeeds Bold Sableye by 4 points and can finish off Sableye with Shadow Sneak after hitting it with Shadow Ball on the switch.

 

[mertyville]

I feel that WoW and Foul Play are working agains each other. If the opposing pokemon is burned, Foul Play will do less damage.

I prefer
Sableye@Leftovers
Nature: Impish
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP, 252 Def, 4 Atk/SpD
- Knock off
- WoW
- Taunt
- Recover

So far one of the best defensive Taunt-Users around, and to increase Physical Bulk should be the best choice, since defensive Stats are already paper thin. Knock off to make opposing Items but Megastones useless. Recover speaks for itself.

 

[farranpoison]

I feel that WoW and Foul Play are working agains each other. If the opposing pokemon is burned, Foul Play will do less damage.

I prefer
Sableye@Leftovers
Nature: Impish
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP, 252 Def, 4 Atk/SpD
- Knock off
- WoW
- Taunt
- Recover

So far one of the best defensive Taunt-Users around, and to increase Physical Bulk should be the best choice, since defensive Stats are already paper thin. Knock off to make opposing Items but Megastones useless. Recover speaks for itself.

Actually, Burn doesn't change Foul Play. It only takes the opponent's Attack stat, and Burn doesn't actually affect the stat itself like SD or Growl and the like does. Now, if Sableye was Burned, it'd cut Foul Play in half.

 

[Sacaen]

You know, on paper Sableye looks like a good mon for stall. Priority burns and recovery can go a long way plus it would make a good anti-taunter.

He's very good for stall. I used him extensively on my stall teams in gen 5 and a bit in gen 6 and he always pulls his weight. Most people don't realize how well he can take physical hits, even before he gets the burn off. Now in gen 6, while he's basically the same, the accuracy buff on WoW means a world of difference for sableye where often a WoW miss could be a death sentence. The knock off buff is also a big deal as it adds even more utility to an already amazing utilitymon at the cost of some damage (esp vs physical fire types (ohko darmanitan and vicitini was always nice)

 

[Jojobobo]

Foul Play actually works nicely whilst the opponent is burned, the amount of pokemon who Swords Dance to neutralise the burn and then are KO'd by Foul Play (coming off their boosted and already higher than average attack) is astonishing. Even if they don't Swords Dance you still usually get the KO because their attack is so high. Knock Off is also good, especially when facing something dependent on its item like Chansey, but it seems a bit more niche to me and inferior to Trick or Switcheroo support if you have it.

Not so, silfan. Priority Will-O-Wisp lets you run more specially defensive. There aren't a lot of viable physical Fire-type attackers (Darmanitan, Victini, and Megazard X are the only I can think of) so anything that wants to switch in runs the risk of getting burnt. Agreed with Leftovers, because the instant Sableye stops running Choice Trick or Lagging Tail Trick is the day I sleep easier at night.

If you look at Double Electric's post on the first page he makes a pretty strong case for physically defensive. I run it currently, and I have to agree with him - Sableye doesn't really have the bulk to tank many SpAtk hits so there's not much point unless you wanted to run it SAtk lowering moves.

Actually, that sounds like a pretty good set:

Sableye @ Leftovers / Maranga Berry
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 SDef / 252 HP / 4 Def
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Taunt / WoW / Captivate
- Recover
- Snarl
- Toxic

Snarl gives you SpAtk drops so long as you're not up against a faster Fairy (and can tank the initial hit). WoW allows you to stall out physical attackers, Captivate gives you another semi-reliable method of lowering SpAtk (doesn't work against the same gender or ghosts) and Taunt means you yourself can't be taunted. The EVs are just placeholders, you might me able to fiddle them so you can take a good balance of physical and special hits (or outspeed uninvested slow fairies with Snarl). a Maranga berry gives higher SpDef at the expense of Leftovers recovery as long as you don't switch out again so it might be useful in some cases. For example it's the only thing that would let you handle a modest LO Espeon with Dazzling Gleam:

252+ SpA Life Orb Espeon Dazzling Gleam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Sableye: 234-278 (76.9 - 91.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Then on the second turn when you priority Recover:

-1 252+ SpA Life Orb Espeon Dazzling Gleam vs. +1 252 HP / 252+ SpD Sableye: 104-125 (34.2 - 41.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

It would take a few Recovers to get yourself in a position where you can use Toxic, but fending off a Dazzling Gleam from something with the SpAtk of Espeon is a worse case scenario.

 

[Seth Vilo]

Foul Play actually works nicely whilst the opponent is burned, the amount of pokemon who Swords Dance to neutralise the burn and then are KO'd by Foul Play (coming off their boosted and already higher than average attack) is astonishing. Even if they don't Swords Dance you still usually get the KO because their attack is so high. Knock Off is also good, especially when facing something dependent on its item like Chansey, but it seems a bit more niche to me and inferior to Trick or Switcheroo support if you have it.


If you look at Double Electric's post on the first page he makes a pretty strong case for physically defensive. I run it currently, and I have to agree with him - Sableye doesn't really have the bulk to tank many SpAtk hits so there's not much point unless you wanted to run it SAtk lowering moves.

Actually, that sounds like a pretty good set:

Sableye @ Leftovers / Maranga Berry
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 SDef / 252 HP / 4 Def
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Taunt / WoW / Captivate
- Recover
- Snarl
- Toxic

Snarl gives you SpAtk drops so long as you're not up against a faster Fairy (and can tank the initial hit). WoW allows you to stall out physical attackers, Captivate gives you another semi-reliable method of lowering SpAtk (doesn't work against the same gender or ghosts) and Taunt means you yourself can't be taunted. The EVs are just placeholders, you might me able to fiddle them so you can take a good balance of physical and special hits (or outspeed uninvested slow fairies with Snarl). a Maranga berry gives higher SpDef at the expense of Leftovers recovery as long as you don't switch out again so it might be useful in some cases. For example it's the only thing that would let you handle a modest LO Espeon with Dazzling Gleam:

252+ SpA Life Orb Espeon Dazzling Gleam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Sableye: 234-278 (76.9 - 91.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Then on the second turn when you priority Recover:

-1 252+ SpA Life Orb Espeon Dazzling Gleam vs. +1 252 HP / 252+ SpD Sableye: 104-125 (34.2 - 41.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

It would take a few Recovers to get yourself in a position where you can use Toxic, but fending off a Dazzling Gleam from something with the SpAtk of Espeon is a worse case scenario.

Sableye learns the new move Confide - a status move that lowers SpA one stage. That allows it to take advantage of Prankster and lower SpA before having to take a hit, or have to use its own horrendous SpA. It also keeps you from having to use Captivate. Keep Taunt on there so you can outspeed normal, non-Prankster Taunters and you're good.

 

[BSMEforme]

^^ Not to mention that espeon has magic bounce, making toxic useless against it.

 

[Jojobobo]

Sableye learns the new move Confide - a status move that lowers SpA one stage. That allows it to take advantage of Prankster and lower SpA before having to take a hit, or have to use its own horrendous SpA. It also keeps you from having to use Captivate. Keep Taunt on there so you can outspeed normal, non-Prankster Taunters and you're good.

Did not know about Confide, definitely a better option than Captivate! Still, you need two ways to do damage so you aren't utterly walled if Sableye is your last man - Captivate and Toxic is walled by any steel or poison type (and ghost types will give you trouble), and if you don't have any hazards in play (i.e. they have a defog user) then they can just switch their mons continuously to stall out your PP (someone has tried this on me before). I would therefore go for Confide/Recover/(Toxic or WoW)/(Snarl or WoW), and have Taunt on something else - though priority Taunt is quite sorely missed.

 

[Pyritie]

Sableye learns the new move Confide - a status move that lowers SpA one stage.

everything that can learn TMs can learn confide

 

[ScizLor]

I've been using this spread and moveset on Showdown, and it really works:

Sableye @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
Nature: Bold
EVs: 252 HP, 252 Def, 4 Sp. Def
- Will-o-Wisp
- Taunt
- Recover
- Foul Play

As already said in this thread, this kind of Sableye stops most physical attackers cold and also neutralizes many stallmons thanks to Taunt. Bold is chosen to soften damage from eventual enemy Foul Plays, and Sableye's Foul Play can dent (for about 50% health) the average enemy Espeons, common switch-ins to Sableye because of Magic Bounce. Today it just won me a match almost single-handedly, as the MVP of my Dark mono-type UU team. And yes, alexwolf and Strykeypoo: as you can see in the example replay, non-attacking Trevenant is destroyed by Taunt.

 

[RufflesPro]

So my friend basically have 2-4 battles every day , as soon as he got his hands on Prankster Sabeleye, he used it every freakin' time, why? Because priority WoW is boss, it got around all my teams (8 atm) with WoW and Max SpD + recover, there were many ways to beat him: Sun team, immune to burn, so I'd basically Spam Flare Blitz from my Talonflame, second way is Unexpected Taunt users, such as Crobat and Noivern (Crobat is usually predicted to be offensive), Infilitrator users (He had Sub + Recover strategy), Stall + Confuse Ray (Dusknoir), and finally Flash Fire pokemon, such as Chandelure (Switching from physical to Chandelure)

252 SpA Flash Fire Chandelure Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Sableye: 274-324 (90.1 - 106.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

 

[Jojobobo]

Sun teams are a pain, I pair Sableye with Klefki for a whole package of stally Prankster goodness but neither of them enjoy fire mons. If you make Sableye defensive instead of speically defensive it can sometimes kill off Talonflame between its recoil and Foul Play, always something to consider (obviously with priority Recover Sableye hitting low health isn't usually an issue unless it's statused). If you want to counter Sableye you're better off with a Flying Gem Acrobatics/Roost Talonflame as Foul Play doesn't hit hard enough, whatever you do don't use SD as then Foul Play might finish you off.

 

[Dude Bro 420]

0- Atk Sableye Foul Play vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Talonflame: 165-195 (55.3 - 65.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Nice. Predict the switch and get a 2HKO with proper physical defense investment.

252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Flare Blitz/Brave vs. 252 HP / 120 Def Sableye: 256-303 (84.2 - 99.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Funny, the old Calm spread is just enough to work with this. We need to run more damage calculations though, with Sableye's low BST every bit counts. It's worth noting that if SR is up and the opponent has a Special Attacker to switch in after Talonflame goes down, Sableye is screwed unless you can eliminate the entry hazards.

Anyhow, calculate y'all. Sableye needs us.

 

[Dude Bro 420]

So my friend basically have 2-4 battles every day , as soon as he got his hands on Prankster Sabeleye, he used it every freakin' time, why? Because priority WoW is boss, it got around all my teams (8 atm) with WoW and Max SpD + recover, there were many ways to beat him: Sun team, immune to burn, so I'd basically Spam Flare Blitz from my Talonflame, second way is Unexpected Taunt users, such as Crobat and Noivern (Crobat is usually predicted to be offensive), Infilitrator users (He had Sub + Recover strategy), Stall + Confuse Ray (Dusknoir), and finally Flash Fire pokemon, such as Chandelure (Switching from physical to Chandelure)

252 SpA Flash Fire Chandelure Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Sableye: 274-324 (90.1 - 106.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

If he's smart he'll know to taunt those pokemon, and of course watch out for Foul Play on the switch if you're using Chandelure. Heatran is better at that also.

You don't need the sun at all to OHKO his Sableye if he uses a max SpD set, just use Brave Bird and a Choice Band.

 

[BSMEforme]

Sableye hates special attackers in general. I've paired him with a blissey to tank most special fairy attackers being thrown at him save for azumarrill and mawile, which are handily walled by m-venusaur.

Talonflame is a big problem if he comes in for free so sometimes in a pinch I'll switch 252def+ blissey into a brave bird to get as much residual damage as possible then switch into a scarfed rotom since most people just try to u-turn after bbing. I need a SR setter lol.

 

[ScizLor]

252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Flare Blitz/Brave vs. 252 HP / 120 Def Sableye: 256-303 (84.2 - 99.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Funny, the old Calm spread is just enough to work with this. We need to run more damage calculations though, with Sableye's low BST every bit counts. It's worth noting that if SR is up and the opponent has a Special Attacker to switch in after Talonflame goes down, Sableye is screwed unless you can eliminate the entry hazards.

A move I still haven't read of in this thread and that could be an answer to this kind of heavy hitter is Metal Burst. Sableye learns it as an egg move (from Bisharp), has the right physical bulk to withstand a strong blow (like the banded Flare Blitz in example) and retaliate it with x1,5 power, just to priority Recover (part of) the damage taken in the turn after. As we see, any banded Talonflame (outside of Sun) is unable to OHKO a full health Sableye and can be surprise-OHKOed by Metal Burst.

Metal Burst retaliates also the damage from special moves. As Zalfi previously calculated,

252+ SpA Life Orb Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 104 SpD Sableye: 255-302 (83.8 - 99.3%)

with a minimum of 104 SpD EVs Sableye survives Aegislash's Shadow Ball and can hit back for a OHKO. It's also true that Foul Play normally achieves the same result (Sableye will hit super-effectively the exposed Blade Forme), but the thing is that Metal Burst can be an effective answer to both kinds of menaces. Obviously, there are problems and risks: Metal Burst is like Sucker Punch, it will fail if the user is not attacked, so you must play some mind games (or use Taunt on the switch maybe) in order to pull it off; the utility of the move on the special side is limited, as anything stronger than that Aegislash's Shadow Ball will probably OHKO you, so you still have to switch out on many special attackers; also, if the physical foe doesn't hurt you enough (in this case the previous use of Will-o-Wisp is detrimental), your Metal Burst will be kind of weak and substantially not worth it.

I'm going to test a set like this:

Sableye @ Leftovers/Focus Sash
Ability: Prankster
Nature: Bold/Calm
EVs: 252 HP, ~128 Def, ~128 Sp. Def
- Taunt
- Recover
- Metal Burst
- Will-o-Wisp/Toxic

 

[9Nackers]

WispSnarl Sableye aint too bad http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/battletower-pokebankoubeta-235508 countered by the red bird we all love so much of course but I never did have much luck fighting that thing anyway without metal burst.

Edit: Ah right I forgot about the gen 6 buff to sound moves, apparently snarl goes right through subs http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/pokebankoubeta-70866881