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Discussion in 'BW OU' started by Aerrow, Sep 19, 2010.

  1. Aerrow

    Aerrow hunter
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

    Nov 24, 2009
    #373 Salamence
    Typing: Dragon / Flying;
      Ability 01: Initmidate[INDENT]Upon entering battle, the opponent’s Attack lowers one stage. In a Double Battle, both opponents’ Attack are lowered. Pokémon with the Clear Body, Hyper Cutter, or White Smoke ability are unaffected. In a link battle, if both sides switch on the same turn, and first player sends out a Pokémon with Intimidate, the opponent’s Attack will be lowered before the opponent’s Pokémon switches.
    [/INDENT]Ability 02: Overconfidence (Dream World)[INDENT]   Attack rises when you faint an opponent.
    [/INDENT]Base Stats:
      HP: 95
      Atk: 135
      Def: 80
      SpA: 110
      SpD: 80
      SpD: 100
      Level-Up Moves:
      Lv1: Fire Fang, 
      Lv1: Thunder Fang, 
      Lv1: Rage, Lv1: Bite, 
      Lv1: Leer, 
      Lv1: Headbutt, 
      Lv5: Bite, 
      Lv10: Leer, 
      Lv16: Headbutt, 
      Lv20: Focus Energy, 
      Lv25: Ember, 
      Lv30: Protect, 
      Lv32: DragonBreath, 
      Lv37: Zen Headbutt, 
      Lv43: Scary Face,
      Lv50: Fly, 
      Lv53: Crunch, 
      Lv61: Dragon Claw, 
      Lv70: Double-Edge, 
      Lv80: [M525] Dragon Tail
    Egg Moves:
    Hydro Pump
    Dragon Rage
    Dragon Dance
    Fire Fang
    Dragon Rush
    Dragon Pulse
    Defense Curl
    Learnable TMs: 
      TM01 - Claw Sharpen, 
      TM02 - Dragon Claw, 
      TM05 - Roar, 
      TM06 - Toxic, 
      TM10 - Hidden Power, 
      TM11 - Sunny Day, 
      TM15 - Hyper Beam, 
      TM17 - Protect, 
      TM18 - Rain Dance, 
      TM21 - Frustration, 
      TM26 - Earthquake, 
      TM27 - Return, 
      TM31 - Brick Break, 
      TM32 - Double Team, 
      TM35 - Flamethower, 
      TM38 - Fire Blast, 
      TM39 - Rock Tomb, 
      TM40 - Aerial Ace, 
      TM42 - Facade, 
      TM44 - Rest, 
      TM45 - Attract, 
      TM48 - Troll, 
      TM59 - Complete Burn, 
      TM65 - Shadow Claw, 
      TM68 - Giga Impact, 
      TM71 - Stone Edge, 
      TM78 - Smooth Over, 
      TM80 - Rock Slide, 
      TM82 - Dragon Tail, 
      TM87 - Swagger, 
      TM90 - Substitute, 
      TM94 - Rock Smash, 
      HM01 - Cut, 
      HM02 - Fly, 
      HM04 – Strength
    Salamence; the beast that shaped the entire OU metagame in generation 4 around it; not only because of its amazing base stats, but also because of its awesome ability, Intimidate which crippled any physical sweeper it switched into. But now, Generation 5 has given the dragon something that may be even more powerful than intimidate; Overconfidence. With this ability, every time Salamence Kos a Pokemon its attack gets raised making it even more powerful. With this ability, Salamence is probably going to wreak even more havoc inn the Generation 5 competitive metagame, being able to instantly increase its attack stat by simply revenge killing a slower foe. Below are a couple of sets that may be viable in the new metagames of the fifth generation.

    Salamence @ Choice Scarf/ Life Orb/ Choice Band
    100 Atk/ 252 Spe/ 52 SpA
    Overconfidence Ability/ Naïve Nature
    - Outrage/ Dragon Claw
    - Earthquake/ Fire Blast
    - Draco Meteor/ Dragon Dance
    - Earthquake/ Roost

    The item of choice is basically up to you; a choice scarf or a choice band can be used if you want to make sure you outpace opponents or if you want to give your mence more power. Life orb can also be used if you decide to want to have the ability to change attacks; if this is the case, both Dragon Dance and Roost can be used to boost salamence’s attack and speed or heal of residual damage. The Evs are to be used if you include a special move in you Moveset like Draco Meteor or Fire Blast, but if you decide to keep all the moves physical, a simple spread of 252 Atk/ 252 Spe/ 4 HP can be used (also, the nature can be changed from naïve to jolly/ adamant). Outrage/ Dragon Claw give Salamence reliable forms of STAB, while earthquake and fire blast give it decent form of move coverage; and Draco Meteor gives Salamence a way to hit physical walls who would otherwise be able to retaliate against it. As mentioned before, either Dragon Dance or Roost can be used over Draco Meteor or Earthquake if you want to power Salamence up or make sure it stays in decent health.
    ■ ■ ■ ■ ■ ■ ■
    That was my not so excellent interpretation of what Salamence’s new ability might be able to do for him in the generation’s metagame. Of course, the set posted above isn’t the only one that may be viable, so please post you suggestions, comments, etc! Thanks.
  2. red12345


    Oct 25, 2009
    Overconfident is insane on salamence...
  3. AxelLow


    Aug 30, 2010
    Ah yes! my favorite pokemon of all! Im glad it got overconfidence, but I hope that doesn't hinder it's chances at making it back to OU.

    Although, if the overconfidence boost isn't big enough i'll be reverting back to good old intimidate. Im sure some of it's checks might be in play, but boy are they still not going to like having to deal with mence. If anything, this better not ban Mence T.T. I'd much rather ban the ability in OU, and let it have access to it in Ubers. Either way, this is veeeeeeeeeeeeery nice for mence.

    Oh salamence, how I love thee :)
  4. Blatreutka


    Feb 2, 2010
    I don't think Overconfidence will work well with a choice item. It will be hard to string KO's together if it can't change its move. But when Salamence starts to sweep it will be even harder to stop. We won't know for sure, but this might keep Salamence uber this generation.
  5. Nachos

    is a Tutor Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Sep 16, 2007
    If the rumour about Dream World pokemon not being able to get Egg moves is true, then I'd rather stick with Intimidate. Not being able to get egg moves means Salamence is unable to get DD. And if the Intimidate message doesn't come up when Salamence switches in, then you know it isn't packing DD and is likely a Mix or CB version, which ruins one of the greatest aspects of Mence "what moveset is it running?". I'd personally use the New MixMence (Naive w/ DM, Outrage, EQ and Fire Blast) with Overconfidence, or a Choice Bander with Outrage, Earthquake, Dragon Claw and Fire Blast/Fang.
  6. Lucindril


    Aug 3, 2010
    This is just downright scary. No more sacrificing your weakened Pokemon to help you get a safe switch-in; doing so results in you helping Salamence set up. The only Pokemon I can think of off the top of my head that wall it with +1 attack are Skarmory, Bronzong and Cresselia (although the former two won't enjoy a mixed set, while Cresselia ideally needs full health to stop it completely).
  7. VKCA

    VKCA (Virtual Circus Kareoky Act)

    Jan 8, 2009
    if it was a speed boost, I would be scared, but salamance doesn't need more power. He already wrecks every pokemon in the game anyways. having another plus one is just overkill.
  8. AxelLow


    Aug 30, 2010
    I'd hope not Blat. For one thing, if overconfidence does work well with mence, I would rather the ability be banned in OU, and useable in Ubers. Salamence maybe crucial for this gen's OU metagame to handle other threats, and overconfidence would definitely make it sound monsterous. I would rather have salamence in two tiers with opposite abilities, i.e. intimidate mence in OU, and Overconfidence in Ubers.
  9. Upstart

    Upstart Copy Cat

    Aug 23, 2010
    Can salamence have both outrage and overconfidence?
  10. Saital


    May 16, 2010
    Just about to ask that. Do we know if the move tutors are coming back for Gen5? If not, then I don't think Dream World Salamence can legally learn Outrage
  11. Thorhammer


    Jun 18, 2008
    The Move Tutors in B/W seem to be very limited in what they teach, like in most of the first two games of a generation. It seems the only competitively viable move they teach is Draco Meteor.
  12. Eggbert


    Oct 30, 2009
    Salamence@Life Orb
    252 Atk/6 (enough to KO weakened waters)/252 Spe
    -Dragon Dance
    -Draco Meteor
    -Outrage/Dragon Claw
    -Earthquake/Fire Blast

    Gets a free KO on something like swampert attempting to stop a DD set. Then you have 2+ atk and +1 spe. Even dragon resists are probably KOed...
  13. Ice-eyes

    Ice-eyes Simper Fi

    Feb 15, 2010
    Yeah, OC Mence doesn't get Outrage or Dragon Dance as far as we are aware (yes, this does suck).
  14. Thorhammer


    Jun 18, 2008
    Dragon Dance may be another story, since we don't know how breeding and Dream World abilities fit together (unless I missed something), but Outrage seems to be out of the question for now.
  15. AxelLow


    Aug 30, 2010
    If outrage is out of the question then I'll say screw OC Mence for now. And Im perfectly fine with that as well :). Dragon Dance would probably be possible, but if not, then OC Mence would only be get at a choiced set I guess.
  16. blasphemy1


    Aug 1, 2007
    Outrage and Dragon Dance aren't available to Overconfidence Salamence (iirc).

    On top of that, Intimidate is far more reliable. Have fun switching into Lucario as he Swords Dances without it. Now Scizor is doing even more to you with CB U-turn, etc, etc. Intimidate is guaranteed to do something, and you can abuse it multiple times to stop a threatening sweeper. Overconfidence gives you an extra attack boost (which it really doesn't need) and they can still revenge kill you with Bullet Punch or Ice Shard. Oh yeah, did I mention a Salamence that has knocked out a Pokemon's Dragon Claw is the same power as a +0 Salamence's Outrage? This ability is extremely overhyped, IMO.
  17. bludhoundz


    Mar 27, 2010
    Overconfidence pretty much turns Dragon Claw into Outrage, and you don't get locked in.

    So if you can find an ideal time to switch in and force your opponent to sacrifice something (like Mence is so good at doing), not having Outrage wouldn't really be a big deal.
  18. Colonel Darren

    Colonel Darren

    Mar 11, 2010
    What about a bulkier Mence that isn't reliant on Outrage to score kills? I would have suggested a build to let Overconfidence power Salamence up, and rely more on something similar to Classic Mixmence with this new ability.
  19. Arch


    Aug 30, 2009
    This is pretty scary, quite honestly.
    I think an ability like this might toss Heracross into solid OU status.

    But on Mence? That's really, really, scary.
    Coupled with choice items doesn't make this great though.
    The rise of Overconfident Mence's means the rise of Skarmory and Fortress, so the ability with a choice item isn't going to be game changing.

    However, if egg moves do work with dream world abilities, Dragon Dance sets are going to be a shitload more scary. D:
  20. blasphemy1


    Aug 1, 2007
    lol you have to kill something first to get the boost. People are automatically assuming he's going to get a kill... shame on you. Dragon Claw is pretty weak, and he won't have Dragon Dance so a lot of Pokemon can come in on you (Scarf Heatran, Scarf Jirachi) and force you out.
  21. AxelLow


    Aug 30, 2010
    I agree with blasphemy (especially after finding out it can't get dragon dance). Mixed Mence might benefit over this, but I highly doubt it as of now. I'll definitely be taking my regular mence over OC as far as things go now.
  22. Thorhammer


    Jun 18, 2008
    There is no basis whatsoever for assuming that he can't have Dragon Dance with Overconfidence.
  23. Tagrineth


    May 22, 2009
    Egg moves are incompatible with the Dream World. Dragon Dance is an egg move for Salamence. Ergo, no Dragon Dance if you want a Dream World ability.

    It sounds strong on paper... we'll have to wait and see how it actually plays out.
  24. Pratty


    Aug 23, 2005
    I'd prefer Intimidate even if EarthquakeSpiral was on Dragon Dance + Outrage Salamence.

    The extra survivability is amazing on something weak to SR. DDMence doesn't really NEED more power either, does it? And MixMence wants Intimidate so it can come in more...
  25. Thorhammer


    Jun 18, 2008
    Source? From what I've heard, Dream World abilities can be inherited through breeding, which makes that unlikely.

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