XY OU Salamence's return to OU (Got to 1500 on OU ladder so far)

[Reign of Hail]

Salamence @ Lum Berry
Ability: Moxie
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Lonely Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Outrage
- Earthquake
- Zen Headbutt
My Sweeper, basic ddance set. He usually comes as in to clean up after the other members have softened up the opposition. I'm still doubting as to whether to add some more support on the team for him, also should iron tail be replaced? I like using it to punish opposing fairies switching in.

Azumarill @ Assault Vest
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Aqua Jet
- Waterfall
- Play Rough
- Superpower
AV Azumarill is a great check to keldeo and can also act as a revenge killer in certain situations. Brings prority, good bulk, and a few resistances to the team.

Gothitelle @ Choice Specs
Ability: Shadow Tag
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Energy Ball
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Psyshock

This is my check to bulky steels and water-types. It traps and kills quagsire, skarmory, ferrothorn, and other things that get in the way of Salamence's sweep. Much better than Magnezone and a crucial piece to the team. Shadow Tag is one of if not the best abilities in the game, pretty broken imo.

Venusaur @ Venusaurite
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 HP / 140 Def / 116 SpA
Modest Nature
- Synthesis
- Giga Drain
- Sludge Bomb
- Sleep Powder
Venasaur acts as a wall and secondary special attacker. With his fantastic typing he walls things like Azumarill and Thundrus as well as a variety of other threats. Sleep poweder while a bit uncommon is to capitalize on switches which would allow me to switch ou and get up a free DDance on Mence.

Mandibuzz (F) @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Overcoat
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Roost
- Foul Play
- Defog
- Whirlwind
My physically defensive wall who also serves as a defogger. Mandibuzz is ridiculously bulky and he can also phaze out setup sweepers with whirlwind or turn their boosts against them with foul play.

Landorus-Therian (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 200 HP / 216 Def / 92 Spe
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- U-turn
- Stone Edge
Landorus is another defensive wall and also acts as a pivot, nothing better than predicting a switch into Quagsire or Skarmory and U-turning into Gotithelle to trap and Ohko it :D, overall great partner for gothithelle.

Edit: Thanks to everyone for the suggested changes, they worked very well. Here's my first replay with the team after the changes, http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-153671761, http://play.pokemonshowdown.com/battle-ou-153691042

Importable:
Salamence @ Lum Berry
Ability: Moxie
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Outrage
- Earthquake
- Aqua Tail

Gothitelle @ Choice Specs
Ability: Shadow Tag
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Energy Ball
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Psyshock

Venusaur @ Venusaurite
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 HP / 140 Def / 116 SpA
Modest Nature
- Synthesis
- Giga Drain
- Sludge Bomb
- Sleep Powder

Mandibuzz (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Overcoat
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Foul Play
- Roost
- Taunt
- Defog

Azumarill @ Assault Vest
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Aqua Jet
- Waterfall
- Play Rough
- Superpower

Landorus-Therian (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 200 HP / 216 Def / 92 Spe
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- U-turn
- Stone Edge

 

[coffeeaddict]

Tbh if you really want to go terrakion, I would probably suggest a choice scarf over a choice band. This would allow terrakion to sweep lategame with close-combat if salamence falls. It will also let you address +1 speed pokemon, such as an opposing ddmence/ddnite/ddgyarados. A defensive gliscor might help you better than mandibuzz imo, and will let you check a lot more threats, absorb status and break stall teams. If you dont go scarf on terrakion, I'd recommend switching to a scarf on magnezone, it really doesnt matter if you 2HKO or OHKO ferrothorn because he can't do anything to you anyway, furthermore scarf gives magnezone more flexibility, instead of just waiting to die to an earthquake/cc.

I like the idea of running u-turn on greninja btw, especially since it would allow you to easily bait and trap ferrothorn, as well as being completely unexpected. I would run a timid over hasty nature though, since your damage will be negligible. I'm not sure who you have as your lead atm, but I suggest someone to lay down stealth rocks, as it will help your salamence sweep later on.

 

[killbuzzer]

Maybe d claw over outrage because of the abundant amount of fairies. Also for more damage output I'd suggest life orb over lum berry because when Mence gets to +1 or 2, he will most likely out speed and take out the rest of the Pokemon.

 

[Reign of Hail]

Okay I will try scarf on terrakion, I don't have a dedicated lead either, I usually just lead with whatever I feel my opponent will lead with tbh. Only problem I have with gliscor is there goes my way to get rocks off the field and I really like lum berry as it allows me to setup on chansey/blissey or other status inducers.

 

[Anduril]

Nature on Salamence should be Adamant or Jolly to maximize power or speed respectively. Also 4 SpA evs on Sal are better put to use in HP or defense. Iron tail has bad accuracy and you kinda already have fairies covered in Venusaur and Terrakion, so you might want to exchange it for an elemental fang, Fire Blast, or Hydro Pump for better coverage. If you use a special attack put the 4 evs into SpA and use a Naive/Hasty nature. Otherwise looks good, that's all I noticed. I'm a bit of a Salamence fanatic

 

[Bhunivelze]

Pokemon: Salamence

Nature: Adamant or Jolly.

Move: Dragon Dance
Move: Dragon Claw
Move: Iron Tail
Move: Earthquake

Analysis: http://www.smogon.com/dex/xy/pokemon/salamence

Caution: Outrage is risky, but i see that you have Lum Berry. Dragon Claw is the better option; as a result, you will still do significant damage. About the item "Lum Berry" its not a bad choice item. Other possible choice items: Haban Berry, Yache Berry, Life Orb, Choice Specs, or Choice Scarf. Chances are that you're going to get status from a possible Will-o-Wisp or Toxic, so be careful with using Salamence. Check the analysis for more information on Salamence!


Pokemon:Greninja

Move: Hydro Pump
Move: Ice Beam
Move: Extrasensory
Move: U-turn / HP Grass / HP Fire / Dark Pulse / Spikes

Analysis: http://www.smogon.com/dex/xy/pokemon/greninja

Caution: Your moveset is nice and well done. My small problem might be U-turn, but i've seen users make use of it in OU, so who am i to judge? You also can use the other four additional moves for Greninja! Check the analysis for more information on Greninja!


Pokemon: M-Venusaur

Move: Synthesis
Move: Giga Drain
Move: Sludge Bomb
Move: Sleep Powder / HP Fire / Leech Seed

Analysis: http://www.smogon.com/dex/xy/pokemon/venusaur

Caution: Sleep Powder is good, but ive seen better uses for the fourth slot. HP Fire helps you deal with grass-types. Leech Seed + Giga Drain is a deadly combo of absorbing your opponent's Pokemon HP, especially if it has no resistance to grass-types. Check the analysis for information on M-Venusaur!


Pokemon: Mandibuzz

Move: Roost
Move: Foul Play
Move: Defog
Move: Whirlwind

Analysis: http://www.smogon.com/dex/xy/pokemon/mandibuzz

Caution: Check the analysis for information on Mandibuzz!


Pokemon: Terrakion

Item: Choice Scarf / Focus Sash / Life Orb

Move: Close Combat
Move: Earthquake
Move: Poison Jab / Toxic / Taunt / HP Ice / Stealth Rock / Rock Slide
Move: Stone Edge

Analysis: http://www.smogon.com/dex/xy/pokemon/terrakion

Caution: Poison Jab is a good move, but i've not seen it commonly used on Terrakion. You have a wide possible choices for the third slot! Check the analysis for more information on Terrakion.

 

[Shiny Platinum]

I would run Dragon Claw over Outrage and Focus Sash for Salamence. It allows guaranteed dragon dances and you don't get locked into a move.

Also, Earthquake > Iron Tail on Salamence.

Either way, I'd run the Choice Scarf Magnezone (252 spe/252spA/4HP | Timid Nature) to outspeed Talonflame when it is Adamant and is forced to Flare Blitz and Charizard. It'll also allow you to outspeed and really hurt Terrakion (banded) and Keldeo (specs). Same for Greninja and Gyarados. While you don't really OHKO ferrothorn, it can't really touch you back to be honest.

I'd also use Dark Pulse over U-Turn with a Timid Nature (252spe/252spA/4spD). If you run into Ferrothorn and use U-Turn, you'll take a good amount of damage from Rocky Helmet & Iron barbs. You CAN still run it, though.

Amazing team, Reign of Hail ! Good luck with your laddering!

 

[Reign of Hail]

Thanks for all the fixes and help!

 

[coffeeaddict]

gliscor can learn defog too..

 

[Shiny Platinum]

gliscor can learn defog too..

Defog and Poison Heal are incompatible. Just saying.

 

[Bhunivelze]

Defog and Poison Heal are incompatible. Just saying.

I have to agree with you. People think its good at times when they team build, until they see the results.

 

[SomeKidFromJohto]

I'm a big fan of 'Mence, myself, so I love that you decided to build a team around him! If you're thinking about getting rid of terrakion, a good replacement might be Excadrill.
You could try a set like this:
Excadrill @ Air Balloon
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Iron Head
- Stealth Rock
- Rapid Spin

or this:
Excadrill @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Iron Head
- Rock Slide
- Rapid Spin

Either one of these sets could work on your team. I know what you're thinking: everything excadrill does is already covered by the rest of your team. Sure, magnezone and venusaur provide fairy counters, and mandibuzz removes hazards, but i still think excadrill can have some good synergy with your team, as having a backup fairy-killer/hazard remover can buffer you in case your other pokes with the same job fall. You won't be greatly affected by another fire weakness either, as gren, salamence, and mega venusaur's thick fat give you pretty good fire defenses. If you WERE worried though, go with the scarfed variant and EQ or rock slide any incoming fires. The scarf set doesn't have to run rapid spin if you're afraid of being locked into it at the wrong time either, as you do already have a hazard remover, so you could replace that with something like X-scizor or Brick Break, depending on your needs. Excadrill can fill a variety of roles well, so you can tailor it to fit into most teams without too much effort. Give him a chance and see what you think.

Overall, great team. I love the concept, and you've already got a good balance. Great job!

 

[Bhunivelze]

I'm a big fan of 'Mence, myself, so I love that you decided to build a team around him! If you're thinking about getting rid of terrakion, a good replacement might be Excadrill.
You could try a set like this:
Excadrill @ Air Balloon
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Iron Head
- Stealth Rock
- Rapid Spin

or this:
Excadrill @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Iron Head
- Rock Slide
- Rapid Spin

Either one of these sets could work on your team. I know what you're thinking: everything excadrill does is already covered by the rest of your team. Sure, magnezone and venusaur provide fairy counters, and mandibuzz removes hazards, but i still think excadrill can have some good synergy with your team, as having a backup fairy-killer/hazard remover can buffer you in case your other pokes with the same job fall. You won't be greatly affected by another fire weakness either, as gren, salamence, and mega venusaur's thick fat give you pretty good fire defenses. If you WERE worried though, go with the scarfed variant and EQ or rock slide any incoming fires. The scarf set doesn't have to run rapid spin if you're afraid of being locked into it at the wrong time either, as you do already have a hazard remover, so you could replace that with something like X-scizor or Brick Break, depending on your needs. Excadrill can fill a variety of roles well, so you can tailor it to fit into most teams without too much effort. Give him a chance and see what you think.

Overall, great team. I love the concept, and you've already got a good balance. Great job!

Definitely right with this one! You should pick Pokemon that have good synergy with your team. This is something that i don't rely on a lot, but i definitely try my best to understand better. I've never tried the Rapid Spin + Stealth Rock, but i might actually give it a whirl and see how that turns out. Very informative and fun to read.

 

[Ignus]

Yo! A good start, but it could use some work. Naturally everything I say should be taken with a grain of salt, and therefore can and should be questioned. If you find yourself agreeing with me, only then take my advice seriously. Here goes. Read and consider carefully, please!

The way you chose to build your team around an endgame (Ms. Sally Mence) is a pretty standard choice, and can help ludicrous amounts when it comes to creating an effective team. However, I feel you didn't analyze the strengths and weaknesses of your sweeper completely before choosing your team members.

So let's talk Salamence. What stops it from sweeping? Here's a good list to sum up what screws up an endgame where Salamence kills everything.

• Skarmory/Ferrothorn and other physical, steel walls
• Thundurus T-wave
• Any scary priority (flyspam, mamoswine)
• Fast shit (@ 1 dragon dance, things like scarfchomp will still kill you)
• Iron tail missing when you attack because it sucks
• Quagsire (and unaware clefable hurts quite a bit if it's physically defensive, due to iron tail not 1hkoing)

First of all, let's fix the easy stuff. Iron tail is icky. The reason fire blast is recommended generally is because it ALWAYS gets Sally past a portion of it's counters - whereas iron tail is like a more icky version of focus blast. Steel typing does not have nearly the coverage of fighting and should almost never be used as a coverage move - if there is fairies left on the field, you shouldn't be trying to sweep yet, anyway. Steel walls are different. Ferrothorn especially relies heavily on iron barbs /rocky helmet to handle sweepers, and being able to completely circumvent it as a threat is wonderful. I completely understand the hesitation to use a move like fire blast, due to it being a special move, but with moxie continually boosting anyhow, you'll probably find yourself still killing fairies with earthquake.

This change leads me to the next threat I feel like talking about. Quagsire. Quag has a stupid niche of being a wall that is always a constant Tankiness. Sure, when the sweeper doesn't have a boost, quag looks shitty compared to other bulky waters - but as the offensive threats get scarier, Quagsire remains a constant in a world of chaos. So how to do you get past it? It's relatively easy, actually. You just hit it with a fucking grass move. Right now, that involves switching in Venu- who honestly just makes quag switch back out. It's easy to get a free switch on it, which is why it's so important to kill it - once you've switched, it's done it's job. You can't sweep anymore. You just lost your boost. Honestly, I think it's more important to trap then the steel types you have mag trapping right now.

So I suggest this: switch Mag for Gotheitte. Just a standard trapping set of thunderbolt, energy ball, psychic and trick will work fine. Suddenly you can kill Quagsire, without giving up your ability to hit Skarmory. You can still kill Ferrothorn because fire blast. It all works out!

Okay. Thundurus. Thundurus is the ender of all sweeps, and as long as it's up, prankster thunder wave will be there to end the fun stuff. And it's really, really hard to counter, especially because it can run focus blast (seriously fuck that move) and suddenly it handles a bunch of it's standard counters - such as Tyranitar, Ferrothorn, and giving it the ability to break through Magnezone. Luckily, you have Mega-Venu to counter it for the most part - but it's still worth mentioning as a threat to your team, as outside of Venusaur, it's only checked by your Greninja.

Fast shit. And Priority. Really, just revenge killing. Any smart opponent won't be sacrificing their revenge killer easily, as they can be the wall between victory and loss. This is what your glue-mons are for; Venu and Mandibuzz. They take the hit from the revenge killer, and hit something back or just push forward some momentum. Let me list off the revenge killers that really give Sally trouble:
Conkeldurr
Pinsir
Talonflame
Scarfed Garchomp
Mamoswine
Azumarill (if you aren't boosted enough to 1hko with earthquake)

This was the main stuff I thought of off the top of my head, but I'm sure there are more.
So what beats these, or at least a decent portion of them?

Before I get into that, let's talk about another issue your team has. IT'S RELATED I SWEAR. NOT A TANGENT.

Right now, you have exactly 2-half revenge killers. Greninja and Terrakion, as of right now, have the foreboding job of stopping you from losing when you have an imminent threat of being swept. And honestly, right now, they aren't that well equipped for the job. They're not slow pokemon, but in a metagame filled with extremely strong priority and scarfed pokemon, it makes sense to either use the stuff that's faster or the stuff that's going to survive the fast stuff. The suggestion for scarfed excadrill is a good example of this. It survives flyspam from Pinsir and Talonflame, forcing them to use the slower moves and die in the process.

So who fits the bill? Who both effectively handles revenge killers and revenge kills extremely well? Just a little blue bunny. Azumarill is the strongest choice for the job on your team - Aqua-Jet priority, combined with the ability to check or counter almost all the threats I mentioned earlier (except for itself of course) makes it a wonderful partner with Miester Sally. Here's an example set. Try it if you feel the need. I'd suggest swapping Greninja for it - it handles a majority of the same threats and then some - although it does leave your team more vulnerable to Thundurus.

Azumarill @ Choice Band/Assault Vest
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Aqua Jet
- Waterfall
- Play Rough
- Knock Off

Also: this stops your team from completely being swept by Charizard-X at +1, which gives you another reason to switch it over. If you don't like that change, then it suggest you at least swap out Terrakion's choice band for a scarf - to help deal with a lot of the different threats I pointed out during this increasingly long post.


Okay. I think that's about it. If you have any questions or feel any of the suggestions I made were unreasonable, just holler a bunch and I'll listen. Doing this type of stuff helps me as much as it (might) help you. Good luck and happy battling!

 

[Bhunivelze]

Yo! A good start, but it could use some work. Naturally everything I say should be taken with a grain of salt, and therefore can and should be questioned. If you find yourself agreeing with me, only then take my advice seriously. Here goes. Read and consider carefully, please!

The way you chose to build your team around an endgame (Ms. Sally Mence) is a pretty standard choice, and can help ludicrous amounts when it comes to creating an effective team. However, I feel you didn't analyze the strengths and weaknesses of your sweeper completely before choosing your team members.

So let's talk Salamence. What stops it from sweeping? Here's a good list to sum up what screws up an endgame where Salamence kills everything.

• Skarmory/Ferrothorn and other physical, steel walls
• Thundurus T-wave
• Any scary priority (flyspam, mamoswine)
• Fast shit (@ 1 dragon dance, things like scarfchomp will still kill you)
• Iron tail missing when you attack because it sucks
• Quagsire (and unaware clefable hurts quite a bit if it's physically defensive, due to iron tail not 1hkoing)

First of all, let's fix the easy stuff. Iron tail is icky. The reason fire blast is recommended generally is because it ALWAYS gets Sally past a portion of it's counters - whereas iron tail is like a more icky version of focus blast. Steel typing does not have nearly the coverage of fighting and should almost never be used as a coverage move - if there is fairies left on the field, you shouldn't be trying to sweep yet, anyway. Steel walls are different. Ferrothorn especially relies heavily on iron barbs /rocky helmet to handle sweepers, and being able to completely circumvent it as a threat is wonderful. I completely understand the hesitation to use a move like fire blast, due to it being a special move, but with moxie continually boosting anyhow, you'll probably find yourself still killing fairies with earthquake.

This change leads me to the next threat I feel like talking about. Quagsire. Quag has a stupid niche of being a wall that is always a constant Tankiness. Sure, when the sweeper doesn't have a boost, quag looks shitty compared to other bulky waters - but as the offensive threats get scarier, Quagsire remains a constant in a world of chaos. So how to do you get past it? It's relatively easy, actually. You just hit it with a fucking grass move. Right now, that involves switching in Venu- who honestly just makes quag switch back out. It's easy to get a free switch on it, which is why it's so important to kill it - once you've switched, it's done it's job. You can't sweep anymore. You just lost your boost. Honestly, I think it's more important to trap then the steel types you have mag trapping right now.

So I suggest this: switch Mag for Gotheitte. Just a standard trapping set of thunderbolt, energy ball, psychic and trick will work fine. Suddenly you can kill Quagsire, without giving up your ability to hit Skarmory. You can still kill Ferrothorn because fire blast. It all works out!

Okay. Thundurus. Thundurus is the ender of all sweeps, and as long as it's up, prankster thunder wave will be there to end the fun stuff. And it's really, really hard to counter, especially because it can run focus blast (seriously fuck that move) and suddenly it handles a bunch of it's standard counters - such as Tyranitar, Ferrothorn, and giving it the ability to break through Magnezone. Luckily, you have Mega-Venu to counter it for the most part - but it's still worth mentioning as a threat to your team, as outside of Venusaur, it's only checked by your Greninja.

Fast shit. And Priority. Really, just revenge killing. Any smart opponent won't be sacrificing their revenge killer easily, as they can be the wall between victory and loss. This is what your glue-mons are for; Venu and Mandibuzz. They take the hit from the revenge killer, and hit something back or just push forward some momentum. Let me list off the revenge killers that really give Sally trouble:
Conkeldurr
Pinsir
Talonflame
Scarfed Garchomp
Mamoswine
Azumarill (if you aren't boosted enough to 1hko with earthquake)

This was the main stuff I thought of off the top of my head, but I'm sure there are more.
So what beats these, or at least a decent portion of them?

Before I get into that, let's talk about another issue your team has. IT'S RELATED I SWEAR. NOT A TANGENT.

Right now, you have exactly 2-half revenge killers. Greninja and Terrakion, as of right now, have the foreboding job of stopping you from losing when you have an imminent threat of being swept. And honestly, right now, they aren't that well equipped for the job. They're not slow pokemon, but in a metagame filled with extremely strong priority and scarfed pokemon, it makes sense to either use the stuff that's faster or the stuff that's going to survive the fast stuff. The suggestion for scarfed excadrill is a good example of this. It survives flyspam from Pinsir and Talonflame, forcing them to use the slower moves and die in the process.

So who fits the bill? Who both effectively handles revenge killers and revenge kills extremely well? Just a little blue bunny. Azumarill is the strongest choice for the job on your team - Aqua-Jet priority, combined with the ability to check or counter almost all the threats I mentioned earlier (except for itself of course) makes it a wonderful partner with Miester Sally. Here's an example set. Try it if you feel the need. I'd suggest swapping Greninja for it - it handles a majority of the same threats and then some - although it does leave your team more vulnerable to Thundurus.

Azumarill @ Choice Band/Assault Vest
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Aqua Jet
- Waterfall
- Play Rough
- Knock Off

Also: this stops your team from completely being swept by Charizard-X at +1, which gives you another reason to switch it over. If you don't like that change, then it suggest you at least swap out Terrakion's choice band for a scarf - to help deal with a lot of the different threats I pointed out during this increasingly long post.


Okay. I think that's about it. If you have any questions or feel any of the suggestions I made were unreasonable, just holler a bunch and I'll listen. Doing this type of stuff helps me as much as it (might) help you. Good luck and happy battling!

Good points about Salamence needing Fire Blast! The trap part about Gothitelle was good and it might catch anyone off-guard. So i definitely think twice about that move and Iron tail's chance to miss. Landorus is annoying to KO, but with Greninja and M-Venusaur he should be fine. He needs to be careful with priority, especially from Mamoswine! The rest of your points very, very good.

 

[SomeKidFromJohto]

Yo! A good start, but it could use some work. Naturally everything I say should be taken with a grain of salt, and therefore can and should be questioned. If you find yourself agreeing with me, only then take my advice seriously. Here goes. Read and consider carefully, please!

The way you chose to build your team around an endgame (Ms. Sally Mence) is a pretty standard choice, and can help ludicrous amounts when it comes to creating an effective team. However, I feel you didn't analyze the strengths and weaknesses of your sweeper completely before choosing your team members.

So let's talk Salamence. What stops it from sweeping? Here's a good list to sum up what screws up an endgame where Salamence kills everything.

• Skarmory/Ferrothorn and other physical, steel walls
• Thundurus T-wave
• Any scary priority (flyspam, mamoswine)
• Fast shit (@ 1 dragon dance, things like scarfchomp will still kill you)
• Iron tail missing when you attack because it sucks
• Quagsire (and unaware clefable hurts quite a bit if it's physically defensive, due to iron tail not 1hkoing)

First of all, let's fix the easy stuff. Iron tail is icky. The reason fire blast is recommended generally is because it ALWAYS gets Sally past a portion of it's counters - whereas iron tail is like a more icky version of focus blast. Steel typing does not have nearly the coverage of fighting and should almost never be used as a coverage move - if there is fairies left on the field, you shouldn't be trying to sweep yet, anyway. Steel walls are different. Ferrothorn especially relies heavily on iron barbs /rocky helmet to handle sweepers, and being able to completely circumvent it as a threat is wonderful. I completely understand the hesitation to use a move like fire blast, due to it being a special move, but with moxie continually boosting anyhow, you'll probably find yourself still killing fairies with earthquake.

This change leads me to the next threat I feel like talking about. Quagsire. Quag has a stupid niche of being a wall that is always a constant Tankiness. Sure, when the sweeper doesn't have a boost, quag looks shitty compared to other bulky waters - but as the offensive threats get scarier, Quagsire remains a constant in a world of chaos. So how to do you get past it? It's relatively easy, actually. You just hit it with a fucking grass move. Right now, that involves switching in Venu- who honestly just makes quag switch back out. It's easy to get a free switch on it, which is why it's so important to kill it - once you've switched, it's done it's job. You can't sweep anymore. You just lost your boost. Honestly, I think it's more important to trap then the steel types you have mag trapping right now.

So I suggest this: switch Mag for Gotheitte. Just a standard trapping set of thunderbolt, energy ball, psychic and trick will work fine. Suddenly you can kill Quagsire, without giving up your ability to hit Skarmory. You can still kill Ferrothorn because fire blast. It all works out!

Okay. Thundurus. Thundurus is the ender of all sweeps, and as long as it's up, prankster thunder wave will be there to end the fun stuff. And it's really, really hard to counter, especially because it can run focus blast (seriously fuck that move) and suddenly it handles a bunch of it's standard counters - such as Tyranitar, Ferrothorn, and giving it the ability to break through Magnezone. Luckily, you have Mega-Venu to counter it for the most part - but it's still worth mentioning as a threat to your team, as outside of Venusaur, it's only checked by your Greninja.

Fast shit. And Priority. Really, just revenge killing. Any smart opponent won't be sacrificing their revenge killer easily, as they can be the wall between victory and loss. This is what your glue-mons are for; Venu and Mandibuzz. They take the hit from the revenge killer, and hit something back or just push forward some momentum. Let me list off the revenge killers that really give Sally trouble:
Conkeldurr
Pinsir
Talonflame
Scarfed Garchomp
Mamoswine
Azumarill (if you aren't boosted enough to 1hko with earthquake)

This was the main stuff I thought of off the top of my head, but I'm sure there are more.
So what beats these, or at least a decent portion of them?

Before I get into that, let's talk about another issue your team has. IT'S RELATED I SWEAR. NOT A TANGENT.

Right now, you have exactly 2-half revenge killers. Greninja and Terrakion, as of right now, have the foreboding job of stopping you from losing when you have an imminent threat of being swept. And honestly, right now, they aren't that well equipped for the job. They're not slow pokemon, but in a metagame filled with extremely strong priority and scarfed pokemon, it makes sense to either use the stuff that's faster or the stuff that's going to survive the fast stuff. The suggestion for scarfed excadrill is a good example of this. It survives flyspam from Pinsir and Talonflame, forcing them to use the slower moves and die in the process.

So who fits the bill? Who both effectively handles revenge killers and revenge kills extremely well? Just a little blue bunny. Azumarill is the strongest choice for the job on your team - Aqua-Jet priority, combined with the ability to check or counter almost all the threats I mentioned earlier (except for itself of course) makes it a wonderful partner with Miester Sally. Here's an example set. Try it if you feel the need. I'd suggest swapping Greninja for it - it handles a majority of the same threats and then some - although it does leave your team more vulnerable to Thundurus.

Azumarill @ Choice Band/Assault Vest
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Aqua Jet
- Waterfall
- Play Rough
- Knock Off

Also: this stops your team from completely being swept by Charizard-X at +1, which gives you another reason to switch it over. If you don't like that change, then it suggest you at least swap out Terrakion's choice band for a scarf - to help deal with a lot of the different threats I pointed out during this increasingly long post.


Okay. I think that's about it. If you have any questions or feel any of the suggestions I made were unreasonable, just holler a bunch and I'll listen. Doing this type of stuff helps me as much as it (might) help you. Good luck and happy battling!

I definitely second the idea of switching out mag for gothitelle. I've run that gothitelle set myself before, and it's amazing. Shadow tag is a great ability for taking out threats that would ordinarily switch out, but you still have to watch out for u-turn and volt switch users getting the jump on you, especially u-turn, as it's super effective and can potentially OHKO you. Another caveat is losing the ability to deal with ferrothorn as reliably, but you can cover that with mence's fire blast, as also suggested. Swapping gren for azumarill can definitely work as well, as they do have significant overlapping coverage. I do want to give belly drum azumarill a mention as well, though, for an alternate set; If you want another option for late game sweeping in case 'mence got KO'd or has some checks still around.

Something like this would work for the belly drummer:
Azumarill @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Belly Drum
- Aqua Jet
- Play Rough
- Superpower

with this setup, your sitrus will activate after the belly drum, mitigating the HP lost, then you go on a +6 aqua jet rampage. Play rough and superpower round out your coverage, but you could swap them for other moves if you want.

And here's my recommended gothitelle set:
Gothitelle @ Choice Specs
Ability: Shadow Tag
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
- Psyshock
- Energy Ball
- Thunderbolt
- Trick/Shadow Ball

For Gothitelle, you NEED psyshock instead of psychic for dealing with chansey/blissey and opposing mega-venusaur. Tricking your specs to chansey/blissey on a status/healing move, then pummeling them with psyshock is almost a guaranteed kill on them. Another option though, is trading trick for shadow ball to beat opposing gothitelles or other ghost/psychic pokemon you might need to beat. Even then, you still need psyshock for the blobs and mega-venusaur.

All in all, a very good post, there were a lot of good ideas in there!

 

[stevenizer15]

I definitely second the idea of switching out mag for gothitelle. I've run that gothitelle set myself before, and it's amazing. Shadow tag is a great ability for taking out threats that would ordinarily switch out, but you still have to watch out for u-turn and volt switch users getting the jump on you, especially u-turn, as it's super effective and can potentially OHKO you. Another caveat is losing the ability to deal with ferrothorn as reliably, but you can cover that with mence's fire blast, as also suggested. Swapping gren for azumarill can definitely work as well, as they do have significant overlapping coverage. I do want to give belly drum azumarill a mention as well, though, for an alternate set; If you want another option for late game sweeping in case 'mence got KO'd or has some checks still around.

Something like this would work for the belly drummer:
Azumarill @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Belly Drum
- Aqua Jet
- Play Rough
- Superpower

with this setup, your sitrus will activate after the belly drum, mitigating the HP lost, then you go on a +6 aqua jet rampage. Play rough and superpower round out your coverage, but you could swap them for other moves if you want.

And here's my recommended gothitelle set:
Gothitelle @ Choice Specs
Ability: Shadow Tag
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
- Psyshock
- Energy Ball
- Thunderbolt
- Trick/Shadow Ball

For Gothitelle, you NEED psyshock instead of psychic for dealing with chansey/blissey and opposing mega-venusaur. Tricking your specs to chansey/blissey on a status/healing move, then pummeling them with psyshock is almost a guaranteed kill on them. Another option though, is trading trick for shadow ball to beat opposing gothitelles or other ghost/psychic pokemon you might need to beat. Even then, you still need psyshock for the blobs and mega-venusaur.

All in all, a very good post, there were a lot of good ideas in there!

But the idea of mangezone is to eliminate fairies and steel types for salamence, I agree to the azumarill for greninja switch. On a personal front I used a scarfmoxie mence with magnezone, it worked well. You spam outrage till you win. Hope I help. :]

 

[Reign of Hail]

Ignus thank you for putting the time and effort into what you wrote, very informative and I will try Azumarill in place of greninja.
blunder Lando-T looks good with rocks and all but I may try Exca instead, thanks for your suggestion.
SomeKidFromJohto You and ignus both suggested gotithelle which I like and I'm also considering using hp fire on that as well and for sure running Fire Blast on salamence
@Stevinizer Scarfmence looks cool to experiment with, I'll give it a shot thanks.
Bhunivelze Thanks for the links and the criticism of my sets , gonna take a second look and edit a few.
Thanks to everyone for their support!

 

[sid_saurav]

Can you please post a Importable. So that user can easily copy your team.

 

[Reign of Hail]

Sure

 

[sid_saurav]

Steel Wings will be better option on salamence because the accuracy of iron tail is very low.

 

[Reign of Hail]

I decided to use zen headbutt to hit mega-venasuar who walls an extremely large portion of my team.

 

[Reign of Hail]

Bump for any more ideas or possible fixes!

 

[Froppe]

Salamence works better as a scarfer this Gen. But if you insist on a set up sweeper role, Crunch/RockSlide/StoneEdge are much better options than Zen Headbutt. Dragon Claw is also much more recommended over Outrage. Stealth Rocks and Defog together is also somewhat redundant; it's best to choose only one of either. Due to the defensive nature of your team, I suggest switching Stealth Rocks out for Superpower/HP Ice. Finally, make sure all the HP of your pokemon are odd numbered. Azumarill, Venusaur, Mandibuzz and Gothitelle all have 252 HP EVs; change them to 248 and invest the last 4 EVs into something else. This allows you to switch in to SR/Spikes more frequently e.g. SR will do 24% damage to a Mandibuzz with an odd numbered HP instead of 25. Also make sure your Salamence runs a Jolly nature outsped Adamant Zard X's and speed tie Jolly ones. Other less common base 90-100s such as Flygon/Volcarona/Kyurem-B/Haxorus/Hydreigon are also outsped/speed tied.

 

[Reign of Hail]

Thanks for your contribution and advice, why is scarfmence better this Gen? Can he still work in the sane role as a late game cleaner I have here?