Sandstorm Teams: Concept and Development.

[Deck Knight]

The Sandstorm Team (any team which makes use of Tyranitar's Sandstream ability) has been a staple ever since the introduction of abilities in ADV. The main benefit of a Sandstream team is that it negates the Leftovers recovery of many of the opponents pokemon, notably their special wall, Blissey, Snorlax, or Regice. Sandstorm teams often made use of other indirect damage through the use of Spikes and Poison in conjuction with psuedohazing.

The weaknesses of a Sandstorm team is that they often negate your own special wall's leftovers, and the three types immune to Sandstorm: Ground, Rock, and Steel, are very similar in nature. Ground and Rock share weaknesses to Water and Grass, Rock and Steel are both weak to Fighting and Ground. They were all physical attacks as well, and could theoretically be addressed by the same physical wall, a physical wall that is also probably immune to sandstorm. (Skarmory, Swampert, and Forretress in particular aren't weak to any of them)

In DP, Sandstorm teams have recieved considerable upgrades. The biggest change is that Sandstorm now offers a direct (as in not a stage boost) 50% Special Defense boost to Rock types. There are now also a few competent special attackers that don't suffer from sandstorm, such as Heatran, Camerupt, Magnezone, Empoleon, and Lucario. Finally, Hippowdon offers a second pokemon with the Sandstream ability that has a considerably different function from Tyranitar and different weaknesses and resistances.

The main thrust of this topic is to discuss Sandstorm teams and how to get around their weaknesses. I'll start with a list of certain designations (physical sweeper, special sweeper etc) and the pokemon that fit them than work well in a Sandstream team.

My criteria for the initial listing:
1. Stats and Movepool
2. Immune (or effectively so) to Sandstorm

Some pokemon may appear in more than one category.

Note: There is no particular order here.

Physical Sweepers:
-High Attack, Diverse physical movepool (at least 3 different attack types with 75+ BP). Attack and/or speed boosting moves available.
Mamoswine
Rhyperior
Garchomp
Metagross
Torterra
Rampardos
Aerodactyl
Tyranitar
Aggron
Golem
Scizor
Breloom (Poison Heal @ Toxic Orb)
Relicanth
Flygon
Marowak
Lucario
Kabutops
Armaldo

There are loads of holdovers from ADV because the main physical sweeper move, Earthquake, is unchanged, and most of the Rock Sliders got upgraded to Stone Edge. Dragon Claw, Crunch, and Pursuit are also welcome additions for many.

Physical Walls:
-High Defense and/or HP, useful resistances, instant recovery move where available. A Wall should be able to switch in relatively unharmed and usually cause an opponent to switch their current physical attacker out.
Regirock
Hippowdon
Donphan
Gliscor
Bronzong
Steelix
Forretress
Claydol
Registeel
Skarmory
Jirachi
Rhyperior
Torterra
Swampert

There are a few newcomers, but mostly the list remains the same from ADV.

Special Sweepers:
-High SA, Diverse special movepool (at least 3 different attack types with 75+ BP)
Omastar
Heatran
Lucario
Magnezone
Empoleon
Camerupt
Cacturne

There aren't many special attackers immune to sandstorm to begin with, but a large portion of the new ones are part Steel or upgrades of old favorites like Magneton.

Special Walls:
-High SD and/or HP, usefull resistances. A Wall should be able to switch in relatively unharmed and usually cause an opponent to switch their current special attacker out.
Regirock
Cradily
Claydol
Probopass
Gastrodon
Registeel
Empoleon
Jirachi

Special walls are also still few and far between among the Sandstorm immune, but the SD boost really helped Regirock, Probopass, and Cradily.

Mixed Sweepers:
-Both attack stats decent, diverse movepools accross the board.
Camerupt
Cacturne
Nidoking
Nidoqueen
Lucario
Tyranitar

There are basically two kinds of mixed sweepers, those that have the option to specialize in either attack or SA but have the statistical backing and movepool to throw on a move from the other side like Lucario and Tyranitar, and those like Nidoking, Cacturne, and Camerupt who thrive on the ability to surprise foes on their weak defense and score a KO.

Anyway, you may or may not agree on the UU-ness or whatever of the lists, the point was to develop a somewhat comprehensive list and work from there. Sandstorm teams aren't limited to the options here, but its good to have a t least 3 so you don't end up nerfing your own team.

 

[TVboyCanti]

good post. I think the biggest boost to sandstream teams, besides the +1 sp def, was empoleon. Before empoleon, the only pokemon that resisted water attacks and didnt take damage from SS was golduck, whose merits I will not discuss here. Empoleon gives SS teams a viable special wall that can really help because of its resistances.

edit: You dont have shuckle anywhere on your list, which I think is odd since Shuckle makes a pretty good special wall with 900+ special defense.

 

[Matt]

Empoleon cannot match Blissey. What exactly do you mean by that?

 

[General Tso]

I think this team is balanced enough:

Tyranitar
Torterra
Bronzong
Heatran
Empoleon
Donphan

They cover each other's weaknesses quite well and I think all roles are covered. Physical Sweeper, Physical Wall, Special Wall, Special Sweeper, Support and Empoleon is good filler.

 

[MegaBuddha]

Screech/Sub/FP/Pursuit Tryranitar

SR/AA/EQ/Roost Gliscor

Spikes/Roost/WW/Drill Peck Skarmory

TWave/Stone Edge/Rest/EQ Regirock

W-o-W/Pain Split/Shadow Sneak/Ice/Thunder Punch Dusknoir

Hp Ground/Weather Ball/Sludge Ball/Leaf storm Roserade

Has been GREAT for me. Cept Manaphy weak

And I won't deny this is based on a toy team that I loved and changed a bit then trained. But it really does rock. Only differences in it is regirock over roflectgross. And different dusknoir

 

[Seph]

I think this team is balanced enough:

Tyranitar
Torterra
Bronzong
Heatran
Empoleon
Donphan

They cover each other's weaknesses quite well and I think all roles are covered. Physical Sweeper, Physical Wall, Special Wall, Special Sweeper, Support and Empoleon is good filler.

Except heracross/infernape/gallade/machamp and most fighters just rip this team apart.

I also fail to see how most of those special walls on there actually wall special attacks from various pokes. Good post for the most part though. (in referance to the thread, not the team)

 

[General Tso]

Well that's what you get when you have a team of pokes with similar weaknesses =(

Could always replace Bronzong with Gliscor.

 

[Arbok]

Except heracross/infernape/gallade/machamp and most fighters just rip this team apart.

Agree. If he tosses in Gliscor for Torterra, though, he should be fairly well off.

 

[liwi]

I've used this sandstorm team on shoddy battle with a good amount of success.

Tyranitar @ Leftovers
(adamant)
-Dragon Dance
-Earthquake
-Stone Edge
-Taunt

Starter to whip up sandstorm. Also able to set up and sweep.

Bronzong @ Leftovers
(relaxed)
-Hypnosis
-Earthquake
-Gyro Ball
-Reflect

Physical wall. Walls Weavile and Electivire quite nicely, and can put the switch in to sleep with Hypnosis. Can also set up reflect for added defense for the team.

Garchomp @ Leftovers
(jolly)
-Swords Dance
-Earthquake
-Dragon Claw
-Fire Fang

Sweeper. Max speed Garchomp can sweep teams very easily (I've done so).

Gliscor @ Leftovers
(relaxed)
-Earthquake
-Aerial Ace
-Roost
-Night Slash

Physical wall #2. I figure once Bronzong is down, a fighting sweeper like Infernape or CS Heracross can sweep this team very easily.

Magnezone @ Leftovers
(modest)
-Thunderbolt
-Thunder Wave
-Substitute
-HP Ice/Grass

Special wall. Magnezone's defenses may only be average, but he has the most resistances in the game (13 IIRC). Normal, Electric, Grass, Ice, Poison, Flying, Psychic, Bug, Rock, Ghost, Dragon, Dark, and Steel.

Regirock @ Leftovers
(careful)
-Thunder Wave
-Stealth Rock
-Earthquake
-Stone Edge

Supporter. My Regirock's defenses in a sandstorm are 364 HP/499 Def/389 Sp.D. That's quite a lot of defense. T-Wave to help its slow speed, and Stealth Rock damage helps too.

 

[General Tso]

Agree. If he tosses in Gliscor for Torterra, though, he should be fairly well off.

Torterra is fun though =( Grass users in sandstorm is win.

 

[Pocket]

Sandstream I think would have a much heavier toll now that more pokemon are using choice items, berries, and focus sashes (is that all?), especially if we decide to make item clause formal. Which raises in me another question...why do people still use focus sash when sandstream will be common?

And gah...Sp Def boost for Rocks is TOO GOOD x[....so much more reason for tagging sandstream abominable

 

[MegaBuddha]

IMO if you're not using sandstorm with SR and Spikes, its really not worth it, go all the way, or theres better things you're team could be doing IMO

 

[Pocket]

Liwi, nice team...the only thing that I find troublesome for your team is Will-O-Wisp, because you have no pokemon to take the burn (well ok, magneton) =/

I could see how Night Slash on Gliscor could hit many of the Gengars, Dusknoirs, Claydols, and other psychic pogeys, but have you considered giving Gliscor the standard stealth rock and ease a slot for Regirock for Psych Up, Explosion, Hammer Arm, Rest, or Curse? With Reflect and Special boost, it should be able to pull off any of these options.

 

[aamto]

Tyranitar/Gliscor/Garchomp/Jirachi/Skarmory/(Magnezone or Metagross or Heatran)

Powerful offense and defense. And can support itself with Wish.

 

[Fishin]

Yeah, Empoleon is pretty much a must since he grants much-needed Ice and Water resists (along with nice sp def). I've been using a SS team myself, and the lack of a resist like that hurts. Gliscor is also very nice for having a Fighting resist/Ground immunity. Cradily's weird typing doesn't help it a lot, but it still makes an excellent special wall (despite it's weakness to toxic). And at least it resists explosion, that's one thing it's got over Blissey >_>

Weaviles (especially SDing ones) are a fairly big problem for SS teams that don't have Skarmory. Ice Punch and Brick Break can score SE on a lot of Sandstorm pokemon, and it outspeeds all of them sans Aerodactyl.

 

[Boa1891]

"In DP, Sandstorm teams have recieved considerable upgrades. The biggest change is that Sandstorm now offers a +1 Special Defense boost to Rock types."
Actually, it's not a stage boost, it's a direct 50% increase. That means that if you had one stage on top of that, it'd be one stage AND 50% (1.5*1.5=2.25x) rather than 2 stages (2x). You can still max out at 6 stages for 4x, plus sandstorm is 6x.

Empoleon cannot match Blissey. What exactly do you mean by that?

I beg to differ. In sandstorm, Blissey gets no leftovers (basically). Manage to knock its leftovers off and it LOSES health every turn. Empoleon also has *TONS* more resistances, far superior SpAtk, doubled leftovers if you put on Aqua Ring, and a good moveset. The only letdown is the lack of a "real" recovery move, but there's nothing wrong with resttalking.

 

[Great Sage]

However, Blissey has far more HP and Special Defense. Empoleon may have plenty of resistances, and Blissey doesn't, but Blissey doesn't even need the resistances. For example, Empoleon only takes 4-5% less damage from Salamence's Draco Meteor than Blissey; this is where the 50% instant recovery is key. Yes, there is a problem with RestTalking. Actually, there's two. Over three turns, you get a net 99% maximum recovery with Rest, while you can get a total 150% max. Also, for two turns, if you RestTalk, what you do is completely up to luck and there is a 33.3% chance that you fail altogether (ST picks Rest), while with Blissey and its instant recovery, you can pick the moves you want yourself.

 

[Blackbeltsam]

However, Blissey has far more HP and Special Defense. Empoleon may have plenty of resistances, and Blissey doesn't, but Blissey doesn't even need the resistances. For example, Empoleon only takes 4-5% less damage from Salamence's Draco Meteor than Blissey; this is where the 50% instant recovery is key. Yes, there is a problem with RestTalking. Actually, there's two. Over three turns, you get a net 99% maximum recovery with Rest, while you can get a total 150% max. Also, for two turns, if you RestTalk, what you do is completely up to luck and there is a 33.3% chance that you fail altogether (ST picks Rest), while with Blissey and its instant recovery, you can pick the moves you want yourself.

In most teams, your argument would stand.


However, the immunity to Sandstorm is what makes Empoleon prefered. Plus Empoleon resists water and ice, two types that can rip through ground and rock.

Personally, I'd have Forretres on any Sand team I'd make, since it could serve as Spiker, Stealth Rocker, and an exploder.

 

[Seph]

lol, GreatSage's post still remains true Blackbeltsomething. The sandstorm just gains empoleon a bit of HP that blissey doesn't get. That doesn't nearly make up for the 50% recovery move blissey has and the potential 150% coming at empoleon.

 

[Surgo]

It's worth noting that most sandstream teams are extremely weak to Nasty Plot / Close Combat / Flamethrower / Grass Knot Infernape, even though it doesn't particularly enjoy getting its health chipped away by sandstorm. An effective sandstorm team better have a way to deal with that or you'll be going nowhere.

Blissey's not so bad if it's leftovers get negated, guys. It's still pretty good, really...just not completely insane. Aqua Ring is utterly useless, so let's please not act like that helps Empoleon approach Blissey level.

 

[teekay]

Most special sweepers that would be hitting with water and/or ice will also have tbolt and/or a grass move. Blissey stops them cold, empoleon doesn't. It's certainly true Empoleon is useful on a sandstream team but more to come in on something like Milotic or Suicune than to actually block special attackers. Even on a SS team Blissey is still unmatched in that department.

 

[Raikizen]

One of the bane's of the SS team I am using right now is unawareness. Apparently, not that many people are prepared for the special defense boost provided by it. I have been online many a time and an opponent thought he could get a quick kill on my Rhyperior with a water/grass/fighting/etc move. Well, SS and Solid Rock make that hard. They also found out the hard way. Also, as a sidenote: I killed 4 pokemon on an opponents team with SR/Slack Off/EQ/Ice Fang Hippowdon. Apparently, people aren't prepared for a hippo lead either. lol

 

[Deck Knight]

One of the bane's of the SS team I am using right now is unawareness. Apparently, not that many people are prepared for the special defense boost provided by it. I have been online many a time and an opponent thought he could get a quick kill on my Rhyperior with a water/grass/fighting/etc move. Well, SS and Solid Rock make that hard. They also found out the hard way. Also, as a sidenote: I killed 4 pokemon on an opponents team with SR/Slack Off/EQ/Ice Fang Hippowdon. Apparently, people aren't prepared for a hippo lead either. lol

That would make it a boon, not a bane. For you at least. Bane is right for your opponent.

Also, I didn't include Shuckle as a special wall (or physical wall) because, and I should have said this, a special wall usually makes the opponent's special attacker switch out. All Shuckle really does is cause a war of attrition. If Bronzong or Empoleon switches in, chances are its because they are a wall and have a resistance, and can actually do something back to the opponent (like Hypnosis on Bronzong or Surf/Grass Knot on Empoleon). Unless their special attacker REALLY hates Toxic, they aren't switching out on Shuckle, some might even Sub in its face.

Also, editing in Boa's note about the SDef increase. My bad.

One of my biggest problems with a Sandstorm team is the weakness to fighting. The only physical walls that resist fighting and Sandstorm are Gliscor and Claydol. Swampert, Skarmory, Bronzong, Torterra, Jirachi, and Hippowdon take nuetral hits, but that usually isn't enough when its CB Hera going to town.

 

[Mr.E]

Or you could concede the fact that your entire team doesn't have to be immune to Sand Stream and simply open yourself up to a much larger variety of pokemon.

 

[Powerful_Blaziken88]

IMO Pokemon that can't take a hit worth a damn are also worthy candidates since they don't really care about Sandstorm. I was thinking of making one and putting an Alakazam on it, for instance.