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Sawk (Update) (QC 0/3)

Discussion in 'Locked / Outdated Analyses' started by Adamant Zoroark, Apr 30, 2012.

  1. Adamant Zoroark

    Adamant Zoroark formerly LucaroarkZ

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    Wow, I reserved this more than a week ago (School + SAT prep classes + 2 analyses to work on = recipe for loads of busy)

    Ah, Sawk and it's gargantuan 44-move movepool, and it can hardly work with any of it. I started thinking, "Is there anything to update here?" My immediate thought: Remove Reversal because, really, most of the time it has no use.

    [​IMG]

    [Overview]

    - Movepool = bad
    - 125 base Attack = good
    - Sturdy is useful
    - Good user of Choice items, whether it be Band or Scarf
    - If you need a Fighting-type to use Choice items, look no further than Sawk

    [SET]
    name: Choice Scarf
    move 1: Close Combat
    move 2: Stone Edge
    move 3: Earthquake
    move 4: Toxic
    item: Choice Scarf
    ability: Sturdy
    nature: Jolly
    evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    - Choice Scarf is very effective in revenge killing threats such as Swellow and Absol
    - If you wanna switch in on a Close Combat, you better resist Fighting!
    - Stone Edge takes care of Flying-types who try to switch in on Close Combat
    - Earthquake takes care of Poison-types
    - Toxic prevents Alomomola from just switching in for free

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    - EVs maximize offenses, investing in bulk is useless
    - Rapid Spin support keeps Sturdy intact
    - Misdreavus and Alomomola have no trouble handling Sawk; Special attackers don't care as much about burn and can hit these two threats harder than Sawk can; Substitute users block Pain Split and Will-O-Wisp from Misdreavus
    - Watch out for Air Slashes and Psychics; Special walls can help against such moves

    [SET]
    name: Choice Band
    move 1: Close Combat
    move 2: Stone Edge
    move 3: Earthquake
    move 4: Reversal
    item: Choice Band
    ability: Sturdy
    nature: Jolly / Adamant
    evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    - Choice Band makes Sawk hit like a truck
    - Switching in on a Close Combat hitting this hard is not a very good idea unless you have a lot of bulk
    - Stone Edge takes care of Flying-types who try to switch in on Close Combat
    - Earthquake takes on Poison-types daring to switch in on Close Combat
    - Choice Band + Reversal after Sturdy activation = destroy everything

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    - EVs maximize offenses
    - Rapid Spin support keeps Sturdy intact
    - Alomomola will not enjoy switching in on a Reversal with Sturdy activated, but Misdreavus is still a problem
    - Air Slashes and Psychics are still a problem

    [Other Options]

    - Bulk Up - bad defenses = Bulk Up is not a great idea
    - Life Orb - breaks Sturdy = not as good as one may think
    - Inner Focus - no common flinch moves
    - Fist Plate can let it bluff a Choice Band
    - Counter - Sawk is better off just attacking

    [Checks and Counters]

    - Misdreavus is enemy number one - It can switch in on anything, shrug off Toxic with Heal Bell, burn Sawk, and even start attacking with Shadow Ball as Sawk struggles to do anything to it. No matter how you look at it, Sawk will lose to Misdreavus.
    - Amoongus can also sponge its hits, put something to sleep, and potentially cripple Sawk with Effect Spore; Vileplume does essentially the same thing
    - Golbat won't have an easy time switching in on Stone Edge, but it can come in easily on Close Combat with its 4x resistance and force Sawk out, or just use Brave Bird
    - Musharna can sponge Sawk's hits, switch in on Toxic and get Sawk poisoned as well due to Synchronize, and just use Psychic on it
    - Eviolite Gurdurr can tank a Close Combat, and proceed to take out Sawk with Drain Punch followed by Mach Punch
    - Eviolite Tangela can sponge hits all day with its massive Defense, but needs to look out for Choice Band Reversal after Sturdy activation
    - Faster Choice Scarf users can check it with no problem (Rotom-S, Jynx, Charizard, etc.)

    [Unreleased]

    - Mold Breaker prevents Weezing from switching in for free, but Weezing is extremely uncommon
    - Just use Sturdy, the cons of using Mold Breaker far outweigh the only advantage to using it
  2. DTC

    DTC ˢᵉʳᶦᵒᵘˢ
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    The Checks and Counters section needs revamping. It doesn't mention a lot of the Pokemon that beat it, such as Amoonguss and Vileplume, and for a Pokemon that is such a big threat in NU (but not necessarily broken), it needs a longer, more detailed checks and counters section.

    Also, Reversal is good enough to be on the set. I've found it much more useful than Toxic, as not even Pokemon such as Tangela can switch into Choice Band Sawk's Reversal after Sturdy is broken.
  3. Adamant Zoroark

    Adamant Zoroark formerly LucaroarkZ

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    Aaaaaand I just noticed i forgot to put it in period, lol

    Yeah it is really short, so I'll go ahead and -actually put it in- and add more counters with more details as to why it counters Sawk and whatnot.
  4. Zebraiken

    Zebraiken is it true what they say, that words are weapons?
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    When we agreed to update Sawk, the primary thing was that the CB and CS sets were to be split, with several other options included in OO (BU, Fist Plate + Fling, etc) and the counters section revamped entirely. What I'm seeing right here is a really generic and rehashed version of the current analysis on-site (even to the point that you're using the same examples) which is reeeeeeeeeeeeally what we're trying to avoid. I understand that there's not a ton to be said about Sawk but the fact that it's consistently been one of the best Pokemon available throughout the entirety of NU definitely means it's deserving of a colorful analysis. There's also no checks & counters section at all which is one of the parts that specifically needed an update because it was so outdated from when I originally wrote the analysis.

    I'd really like for this analysis to be significantly spiced up and and updated to fit the metagame more (split it into two sets, explain what band/scarf do separately, what teammates are good for each, etc), as well as actually including more relevant counters (musharna, golbat, tangela, vileplume/amoonguss, even eviolite gurdurr can tank sawk's cc and 2hko with drain punch + mach punch afterwards). Weezing barely deserves any mention at all, even just in the Unreleased section; it's not seen -ever- and shouldn't be even bothered with imo but you gotta talk about something in Unreleased. Basically, this needs a lot of work before we even go on about trying to QC it.

    edit: wow ok fucker dtc ninjaing me with a scrawny post

    also i don't intend to be rude in any way, i just really think it's deserving of more than what you have laid out for it!
  5. Adamant Zoroark

    Adamant Zoroark formerly LucaroarkZ

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    Yeah I'm working on basically everything you mentioned right now (and getting the Checks and Counters section added in!), and I can tell it looks loads better with the two sets split. Reversal seems like it'd be preferred over Toxic on a CB set, but Toxic seems to me to be better than Reversal on Scarf because when I use Scarf Sawk, I use it as a revenge killer, and I don't find Reversal to be particularly useful on a revenge killer, especially considering Stealth Rock and stuff. Now I'm not so sure about adding Toxic in on the Choice Band set, because Choice Toxic isn't all that good, but if you think I should slash it I'll slash it.

    Yeah, Weezing isn't so common so I'm getting rid of mentions of Weezing, but I think I should at least mention Weezing a little in Unreleased (i.e. something among the lines of: Mold Breaker seems to be a useful ability to prevent Weezing from switching in on Earthquake... Until you notice that Weezing is very uncommon.), to give an example of why you should just use Sturdy.

    You'll notice when you look at what I've got updated now that the two sets that their AC sections don't explain much right now, and I still need to add a bunch of stuff in. I just stopped there because I really need to get to bed before my parents get pissed, but I guarantee that I will be able to get AC looking good with plenty of examples with no trouble at all, and I can get some more checks and counters put into the Checks and Counters, though I may take a while because this week I need to bust my ass preparing for my SAT Math level 2 test on Saturday.
  6. Zebraiken

    Zebraiken is it true what they say, that words are weapons?
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    Yup, Reversal would be better in general on CB and Toxic on Scarf. The big thing with Toxic is that it's basically Sawk's only way to hit bulky Psychics and whatnot, since most can easily heal off his CCs. Choice Toxic isn't great, but it's the only option it really has. You also highlighted exactly the difference between the two sets: CB Sawk is around to just decimate teams and power through walls (especially once their Musharna or whatever is down) while Scarf is around to revenge things. Band should definitely go first though, since even Scarf Sawk has some downsides as far as revenge killing (not outspeeding +2 Gorebyss, not outspeeding weather mons in their weather, etc). That'd also be the only place I would mention Weezing, yeah -- you -could- also mention it in Checks and Counters if you really wanted to but if you do, make sure to note that it's uncommon and not super good in this metagame (although it sorta beats Gurdurr and Absol too). I'll comment further on the ACs once you get them all filled out and such. :)

    Don't worry too much about rushing it. I'd much rather have an excellent analysis than one we just tried to get out really quickly!
  7. Django

    Django
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    Choice Band should definitely go first imo, its so much better in this metagame what with Scarf Sawk failing to revenge loads of threats like Gorebyss and all the weather sweepers.

    When you mention Fist Plate in OO, be sure to mention Fling in the last moveslot. While it might seem like a gimmick it can do 50-60% to Musharna, which means it can act as a great lure to elimate Musharna for something else to sweep.

    In the AC of the Choice Band set I think the advantages / disadvantages of Jolly and Adamant need to be exlained. Adamant has a decent chance of 2HKOing Tangela as it switches into Stealth Rock, which is just amazing. Jolly needs to roll maximum damage twice to do so. There are a lot of threats just below 85 Speed though (Magmortar, Skuntank) and Jolly gets the jump on them.

    Looks good though, agree with Toxic on Scarf and Reversal on Band, I've run both sets and they do seem to be the better options. Reversal might deserve a mention in the AC of Scarf though, as if you can get Sawk on 1 HP with priority users gone, it becomes and absolute monster.
  8. DTC

    DTC ˢᵉʳᶦᵒᵘˢ
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    Put Weezing back in c&c; just because it isn't used a lot doesn't mean it's bad. Also, we should be encouraging people to use Pokemon such as Weezing and listing all of the checks and counters helps people who are having Sawk problems.

    For the checks and counters section, add these Pokemon:
    • Physically defensive Exeggutor counters CB Sawk; any Exeggutor beats Scarf Sawk.
    • Wynaut can trap and kill Sawk. (Even CB, but it practically dies trying to kill Sawk.)
    • Mention Weezing
    • Mention Duosion
    • Mention that Sturdy makes it harder to beat Sawk; to bypass it, you can use hazards, but most of Sawk's checks and counters still beat Sawk well despite Sturdy because they have recovery. It makes it harder for offensive teams to beat Sawk however, but at least they can pick off Sawk with priority or another fast attacker.
    • Mention that it's much easier to beat Scarf Sawk once you have identified that it is Scarf. Pokemon such as Quagsire, physically defensive Torterra, and Shelgon counter it now, while offensive Pokemon such as Marowak, Samurott, and Fraxure can tank a hit and KO back. (Even if Sturdy is intact.)

    Mention that Scarf Sawk has a much harder time killing many defensive threats in the Scarf set comments. Also give some examples.

    Also, seconding Zebraiken and Django's suggestions.
  9. Omicron

    Omicron
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    You could probably mention Poison Jab in the OO, even if only to hit Exeggutor, as bulky variants won't take much damage from any of Sawk's attacks, even Stone Edge. It's a terrible move to be locked into, but it can work.
  10. DTC

    DTC ˢᵉʳᶦᵒᵘˢ
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    Mold Breaker is much more useful than you make it out to be. Mold Breaker allows Sawk to break through Sturdy Pokemon such as Golem and Gigalith. This is an incredibly useful niche that right now only Rampardos and Pinsir have. Many offense teams have no room for a Rapid Spin user. As such, Mold Breaker Pokemon can be very useful for keeping SR off the field with all of the Sturdy users running around.

    Also mention that Mold Breaker also allows Sawk to hit Haunter and Misdreavus with EQ. Yes, you can hit them with Stone Edge; however, EQ is more reliable and a lot of times it's better to spam EQ than Stone Edge.
  11. Steamroll

    Steamroll resident zombie
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    Just saying Golem wins against Sawk if Sturdy is activated. Golem's Earthquake activates Sawk's Sturdy and Golem can outspeed with Sucker Punch, so make sure that hazards are up or the sturdy abusers have taken some form of passive damage.

    Agreeing with Djangoo that Reversal should be AC in the scarf set.
  12. Cherub Agent

    Cherub Agent come at me winter
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    I'd mention that if CB Sawk uses an Adamant nature, it can OHKO Regirock. Otherwise this looks okay.
  13. November Blue

    November Blue NO YOUTUBE, I DO NOT WANT TO WATCH VIDEOS AT MAX VOLUME!!
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    Mention Eviolite Shelgon in Checks and Counters. It can avoid the 2HKO from Banded Close Combat and set up Dragon Dances on Sawk.
  14. shrang

    shrang Defend the Headquarters of Revolution
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    Just something I've always wanted to use but can't since it's unreleased: When Salac Berry is released, Sawk can use Reversal + Salac Berry to potentially sweep, although getting Sturdy broken and priority can stop it, I guess. Just something to mention in the unreleased section, IMO.
  15. Steamroll

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    shrang don't steal my ideas, I've been toying with that concept for almost a month now... All it loses to are faster mons and 9.9 sucker punch...
  16. erisia

    erisia (macho) brace yourselves
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    Okay, before this gets QC'd I think you need to emphasise what makes the Scarf and Band sets different enough to warrant separate discussion; at the moment, you've treated them as practically identical.

    The Choice Scarf set is primarily a revenge killer that can switch into most frail sweepers and threaten a KO with Close Combat or Stone Edge. In addition, if Sturdy is intact, this lets Sawk revenge kill even bulky sweepers by 2HKOing them, and Sturdy allows you to switch Sawk into fatal attacks to stop a sweep if you have no other options. Earthquake is more of a last-ditch attempt to clean up Poison-types, and is a terrible move to be locked into (as is Toxic), so emphasise that these should only be used if it's absolutely necessary (or you predict the opponent switching to Tangela)

    The Choice Band set is primarily a wallbreaker that can destroy most walls with its powerful Close Combat, using Stone Edge to deal with Flying-types like Rotom-S that could otherwise take a hit. Earthquake is more useful as it can 2HKO some neutral targets more reliably than Stone Edge. Here, Sturdy is used to ensure that Sawk can fire off a powerful hit even against faster opponents, such as the aforementioned Rotom-S, putting the opponent in a checkmate situation 1v1, unless they have a bulky Psychic or Ghost.
  17. Adamant Zoroark

    Adamant Zoroark formerly LucaroarkZ

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    Okay, so I'm not trying to be annoying here or anything, but can I get this moved to L&O? My explanation is in this post. Thanks!
  18. Zebraiken

    Zebraiken is it true what they say, that words are weapons?
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    I got it. :)

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