Metagame Scalemons

Kris

not mine problem
is a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Media Contributor
#1
approved by Chloe. and The Immortal
Scalemons

In Scalemons, every Pokemon's stats, barring HP, are scaled to give them a BST as close to 600 as possible, meaning that some BSTs might be a bit lower or higher than 600, with all recalculated stats being rounded down. This is all done using the following formula:

Stat * (600 - HP) / (BST - HP)

For example, using this formula, Fomantis would go from 40 / 55 / 35 / 50 / 35 / 35 to 40 / 146 / 93 / 133 / 93 / 93 with the following calculations:

Atk: 55 * (600 - 40) / (250 - 40) = 146.7 = 146
Def:
35 * (600 - 40) / (250 - 40) = 93.3 = 93
SpA:
50 * (600 - 40) / (250 - 40) = 133.3 = 133
SpD:
35 * (600 - 40) / (250 - 40) = 93.3 = 93
Spe:
35 * (600 - 40) / (250 - 40) = 93.3 = 93

Rules

Mechanic:
A formula is used for every Pokemon's stats, barring HP, to give every Pokemon a BST of about 600.
Clauses: Ubers Clauses
Banlist:
Items
Deep Sea Scale
Deep Sea Tooth
_Eevium Z
Eviolite
Light Ball
Thicc Club

Moves
Baton Pass

Pokemon
None

Abilities
None

Unbans
Mega Rayquaza​

Strategy

Contrary users
Low BST Contrary users now have incredibly high stats, with Inkay having a base 125 Attack, Fomantis having a base 133 Special Attack, and Spinda having 108 throughout the board (barring HP).

Strong prevos
Strong Pokemon in LC or LC Uber still shine due to their extremely high attacking and Speed stats; for example, Abra has base 211 Special Attack and 181 Speed, Gastly has base 203 Special Attack and 153 Speed, and Diglett, while only having base 127 Attack, has base 219 Speed and a great ability in Arena Trap.

Q&A

Q: Is HP affected by the formulaic changes?
A: No.

Q: Why aren't Ubers banned?
A: With a metagame that gives Pokemon like Poliwag more bulk and Speed than Mega Rayquaza after their stats are scaled, I don't believe any Pokemon needs to be banned from the get-go.

Q: Is every Pokemon's BST guaranteed to be 600?
A: No. The goal of this metagame is to allow Pokemon to have BSTs as close to 600 as possible to make everything as close to equal as possible, not have everything be the exact same.

Resources
Playability: Coded by yours truly, playable on DragonHeaven!
Stats?: Right here!
Council: None yet.
Replays: None yet.
Ban History: Initial banlist.​
 
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#4
This looks really cool. Glad Eviolite is banned, but I think there are a lot of other things that are going to need to go. Kind of hard to tell without playing what's actually broken though.

Mega Beedrill gets 65/186/49/18/99/180
Darumaka gets 70/201/95/31/95/106 with Hustle. Run a scarf and see what lives.
Shedinja gets 1/229/114/76/76/101... this is broken as all hell
Trapinch gets 45/226/101/101/101/22... with a trapping ability and Feint. Not sure if this is broken or even good given its mediocre bulk and awful speed, but its interesting.
A well played Aegislash gets 60/176/176/176/176/70.

I might do a post later comparing prevs to their evos but for now those are some of the mons that stood out to me. (EDIT: like wat I just did below)

versus

105/184/72/39/72/125 versus 70/201/95/31/95/106​
Darmanitan
+Higher speed tier
+Can use Life Orb without Recoil thanks to Sheer Force
+Wider Movepool, notably including Earthquake
-Sheer Force is weaker than Hustle
-Lower Attack Stat

Recommended sets: (by me, they might be bad)
Darmanitan @ Life Orb / Choice Band
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Rock Slide
- Earthquake
- U-turn

252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Darmanitan Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 430-508 (126 - 148.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO -- A 1.48 on the Mew scale

This takes advantage of Darmanitan's higher speed tier by outspeeding as much as possible and access to Sheer Force by running Life Orb to be able to switch up attacks while maintaining considerable power.

Darumaka
+Much higher power with higher attack and Hustle
-Lower Speed
-Accuracy loss from Hustle
-Lower HP for Flare Blitz recoil

Recommended sets:
Darumaka @ Choice Scarf / Choice Band
Ability: Hustle
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Flare Blitz
- U-turn
- Rock Slide
- Superpower

This set uses a choice item to maximize Darumaka's extreme power, either by scarfing it to allow it to make up for its middling speed or by banding it to to wallbreak. This set is fairy high risk high reward in that Darumaka will kill itself very quickly, but will also kill everything else.

252 Atk Hustle Darumaka Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 409-483 (119.9 - 141.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO -- a 1.41 on the Mew scale
252 Atk Choice Band Hustle Darumaka Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 613-723 (179.7 - 212%) -- guaranteed OHKO -- a 2.12 on the Mew scale

versus
versus
versus


30/71/61/203/71/162 versus 45/77/69/177/84/146 versus 60/79/73/159/92/135 versus 60/65/80/170/95/130
Gastly
+Highest Speed and Special Attack
+Levitate
-Lack of Focus Blast

Recommended sets:
Life Orb
Gastly @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shadow Ball
- Sludge Wave / Sludge Bomb
- Dazzling Gleam
- Taunt / Destiny Bond

Specs
Gastly @ Choice Specs
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shadow Ball
- Sludge Wave
- Dazzling Gleam
- Trick / Thunderbolt / Sleep Talk / Hidden Power ?

Gastly is extremely strong and fast. Being one of the few Pokemon that has a stat of over 200 and a decent special movepool makes it a great special attacker. It appreciates its 3 immunities as a way to switch in despite its awful bulk, and especially appreciates being immune to a number of common forms of priority. It runs all out attacking sets better than Gengar, as with both an item and its superior stats it hits considerably harder and faster.

Haunter
+Levitate
-Lower Special Attack and Speed stats than Gastly
-Outclassed by Gastly

Recommended sets:
Using Gastly instead (using both may be viable, and is the only time using Haunter is ever warranted. If so Haunter has the exact same movepool as Gastly so the same sets can be used.)


Gengar
+Mega with Shadow Tag
+Focus Blast
-Lower stats
-Cursed Body instead of Levitate

Recommended sets:
Check out Gengar's Uber analyses!

Gengar's niche over Gastly is primarily in its mega's ability, Shadow Tag. This is a pretty huge thing, and allows it to run stallbreaking sets such as Taunt/Will-O-Wisp/Hex/Sludge Wave with much more effectiveness than Gastly can. Running it as a purely offensive mon would not necessarily be a mistake, as trapping is always valuable, but means that it competes more with the stronger, faster Gastly. Without its mega Gengar's only niche is Focus Blast, which is not enough to justify using it over Gastly and probably not enough to justify using it over Haunter if running dual ghosts.

versus
versus

10/127/57/80/104/219 versus 35/144/72/72/101/173 versus 45/226/101/101/101/22​
loljk wip

EDIT: How do I get rid of that upload i dont want it
 

Attachments

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#5
Carvanha @ Life Orb
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Protect
- Crunch
- Waterfall
- Psychic Fangs

Carvanha is easily a top threat here. 192 Attack combined with Speed Boost and decent coverage allow it to kill many other threats such as Beedrill-Mega and Abra. Honestly, this thing gets so many kills in practice - I'm just naming mons that are weak to common coverage that it carries here, but even resisted targets take quite a bit of damage from it. Definitely something you should prepare for if you're gonna play this meta - It's insanely strong.

Beedrill-Mega @ Beedrillite
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- U-turn
- Fell Stinger
- Poison Jab
- Drill Run

Another top tier threat, 186 base Attack combined with Adaptability and two decent STABs as well as access to Fell Stinger let it turn itself from a potent revenge killer to a dangerous sweeper with the revenging of a single Pokemon. U-Turn hits even harder plus allows you to switch into something more capable of handling the switchin. Poison Jab is for the secondary STAB, and Drill Run rounds out the coverage by hitting Steels. It works pretty well.

Loved playing this meta on DH and I'm looking forward to playing it more, hopefully it becomes OMoTM sooner or later!
 
#6
If you want something really broken, how about Clamperl with 35/116/154/134/100/58 stats?

Clamperl @ Deep Sea Tooth
Ability: Shell Armor
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shell Smash
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Hidden Power [Grass] / (literally anything else it learns)

After a boost this just runs straight through teams that are slower than base 165 and don't have bulky resists that can immediately KO it. It OHKOs resists as bulky as Manaphy, and doesn't have much trouble teeing off against a scaled up Chansey with 250/183 bulk.

+2 252 SpA Deep Sea Tooth Clamperl Surf vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Manaphy: 300-354 (87.7 - 103.5%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
+2 252 SpA Deep Sea Tooth Clamperl Surf vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Chansey: 351-414 (49.9 - 58.8%) -- 74.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Along the same lines, Pikachu now has 35/109/79/99/99/178 stats, making it stronger than standard MegaCham and faster than almost everything.

Pikachu @ Light Ball
Ability: Static
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Volt Tackle / Thunder Punch
- Extreme Speed
- Knock Off
- Grass Knot / Volt Switch

I don't really think I need to explain how this one works. You might want to ban these items alongside Eviolite, since they're basically offensive analogues. I don't think Thick Club is nearly as devastating since the Marowak line's attack doesn't really stand out from the rest of its stats, but it could be looked at too.
 
#7
This is great! I'm really going to enjoy playing this very fun and hopefully cancer-free metagame with this cool team I've crafted:


-

To be more serious, some of the already great Pokemon with low BSTs like Azumarill, Marowak, Smeargle, Clefable and Gothitelle are going to be even better in this, especially now that all the BST gods like the Primals have their stats lowered. I'd consider banning the exclusive items like Thick Club and Light Ball, because those users on paper sound like unstoppable monsters.

e: sniped by virginia, alas..
 
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#8
Magikarp and Feebas each get 257 speed, while Shuckle ends up with 275 in the defenses. It's obviously not going to be such a big deal here, but is the typical "base stats can never go over 255 under any circumstances" rule supposed to apply here, or will you go ahead and let them have their full value?

As for the other stats, Cranidos looks like the highest physical attacker with 235 (and 109 speed, which is decent but a lot less impressive against a field like this), while Solosis offers 237 SA but its speed still sucks.

Wishiwashi's school form will come out almost unchanged of course, at 45/135/125/135/130/28, but when it drops to low health it gets shuffled around to 45/85/85/106/106/170. That's one way to get two moves in a row, I guess...assuming they cooperate by using something that drops you into that critical range rather than skipping over it entirely.
 
#9
Magikarp and Feebas each get 257 speed, while Shuckle ends up with 275 in the defenses. It's obviously not going to be such a big deal here, but is the typical "base stats can never go over 255 under any circumstances" rule supposed to apply here, or will you go ahead and let them have their full value?
Base stats in-game are capped at 255, it's not an OM-specific rule, it's just how the game works. As far as the meta is concerned 255 is their full value. That does mean that Shuckle and the rest have wasted stat points, which is a shame.
 

Kris

not mine problem
is a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Media Contributor
#10
Base stats in-game are capped at 255, it's not an OM-specific rule, it's just how the game works. As far as the meta is concerned 255 is their full value. That does mean that Shuckle and the rest have wasted stat points, which is a shame.
actually, unless i specifically code in the cap, it doesnt consider it (unless the server code has changed)

e: tested, the server code hasnt changed, will fix the code
 
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#11
Just some thoughts:

- Smeargle becomes an even better lead with a blazing 209 base Speed and improved 55/97/125 bulk.
- Diglett is the ultimate revenge killer with an even faster 219 base Speed and 127 base Attack.
- Abra and Gastly are just about the best special attackers in the meta.
- Yungoos has a whopping 188 base Attack, just asking to be boosted by Adaptability or Stakeout. It has an acceptable 121 base Speed too.
- Wobuffet now has gargantuan defenses (190/110/110) and can actually be sort of useful now (sort of).
- Sand teams look promising, with Hippopotas (68/146/158/77/85/64), Drilbur (60/171/80/60/90/137), and Sandshrew(50/165/187/44/66/88).
- Geodude-Alola sports a cool 172 base Attack and 213 base Defense. Could be viable in a Trick Room team.
- Alomomola has nice bulk of 165/114/64 with Regenerator.
- Snivy has 94 Special Attack and 132 Speed. It's also a bit bulkier than Serperior.
- Starly has an amazing 150 base Attack and 163 base Speed, great paired with Reckless and Brave Bird.
- Breloom has a cool 175 base Attack with Mach Punch and Technician.
- Quagsire is a lot fatter now with 95/128/97 bulk.
- Clefable is also a lot fatter now with 95/95/117 bulk.
- Stall though is at a disadvantage, now that there's stuff like Darumaka, Yungoos, and Shedinja. Their raw power doesn't care for the likes of Unaware.
 

The Immortal

They Don't Want None
is a member of the Site Staffis a Battle Server Administratoris a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Programmeris a Forum Moderatoris a Live Chat Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
Other Metas Leader
#14
Why barring HP? Scalemons wasn't like that in gen 6.
Kris said:
The difference between this and the other Scalemons HP-wise is with HP scaled, everything was overly bulky and just frustrating to KO, causing people to not be as excited about playing this. I talked to Halliday about this and they said they like the idea of it without HP scaled a lot better.
 
#15
will fix the code
While you're there, fix it not to overwrite the existing template. (At least, according to the
all viable signature items are banned
Does that include Eevium Z? At +2, Eevee effectively has 55/242/220/200/282/242 stats.
Why barring HP? Scalemons wasn't like that in gen 6.
Scaling both HP and defences results in an extra bulky effect, so it's fairer to keep the HP the same. For example, Sunkern used to go from flat 30 to flat 100, making it about 4 times bulkier. Now it goes to 30/114, which means it's only about 2.5 times bulkier.
 
#18
Just checking, but is Eevium Z legal? You didn't change the banlist on the OP to include it. Even though BP is banned, Eevee becomes a hellish monster to deal with. Each of Eevee's stats are also over 100, so it isn't easy to knock it out. Also, Eevee has Adaptability, eating everything for breakfast at +2.
 

Dioo

formerly fuleno
#21
Your team was rejected for the following reasons: - Eevee's item Eevium Z is banned by [Gen 7] Scalemons.
obs: i'm at ROM.
 
#23
Welcome our new overlord.

Stats: 79/133/94/86/94/111

Bibarel @ Lum Berry / Life Orb
Ability: Simple
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 filler (or 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 filler)
- Swords Dance
- Aqua Jet
- Quick Attack
- Return / Double-Edge

It's invested in bulk because 111 Speed really isn't that good in this meta, but still fast enough to outspeed most walls uninvested. You can probably make a Speed set work also. (on a side note, Bidoof in this meta is actually less powerful and slower lel) Who needs coverage when your STAB does this:
+4 252+ Atk Bibarel Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ferrothorn: 163-192 (46.3 - 54.5%) -- 60.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
Return can also be used but it probably misses out on a couple of kills (eg. the Ferroseed above if you're not running LO). The bulk investment lets it do things like this:
252 SpA Life Orb Abra Psychic vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Bibarel: 286-339 (79 - 93.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Gastly Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Bibarel: 294-347 (81.2 - 95.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Hustle Darumaka Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Bibarel: 309-364 (85.3 - 100.5%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
You better have a Scarf Lele or something lol

Speaking of Ferroseed, Steel-types in general get quite a bit scarier because most of the first-stage mons like Abra and Gastly don't get Focus Blast, so they need Hidden Power for coverage.


Ferroseed Stats: 44/106/193/51/183/21
Ferrothorn Stats: 74/119/166/68/147/25

These two play pretty similarly. Ferroseed has lower HP to recover more from Leech Seed, while Ferrothorn has higher Attack and a better movepool (eg. gets Power Whip while Ferroseed is stuck with Seed Bomb for Grass STAB).
252 SpA Life Orb Abra Psychic vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Ferroseed: 82-96 (28 - 32.8%) -- 84.6% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Abra Psychic vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Ferrothorn: 99-117 (28.1 - 33.2%) -- 85.6% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Reckless Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ferroseed: 195-231 (66.7 - 79.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Reckless Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ferrothorn: 219-258 (62.2 - 73.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Overall, Ferrothorn is mostly better than Ferroseed, though that Leech Seed recovery factor can be pretty important (though it looks like HP stats in this meta will be low anyways)


Klink stats: 40/118/150/96/129/64
Klinklang stats: 60/117/135/82/99/105

Klink is a bit bulkier than Klinklang, but trading that much speed is probably not worth it. Still, in a meta that looks like it'll be based on Speed, Shift Gear looks pretty good, since Abra, Gastly, and co. are pretty frail. Klink barely misses out on Abra at +2 and Diglett still outspeeds, so it looks like Klinklang will be better against most teams (worth noting that Gear Grind breaks Abra/Diglett's Sashes)


Stats: 25/67/134/182/105/86

Magnemite hits harder than its evolutions and is faster than Magnezone (Magneton has 6 more Speed but it's probably not worth using over Magnemite). It should probably run Modest since it isn't outspeeding anything that's not a dedicated wall or TR mon with 86 Speed. It doesn't really look all that good though:
252+ SpA Magnemite Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Ferrothorn: 268-316 (76.1 - 89.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery


Stats: 85/154/90/64/77/128

Staraptor is chosen over its prevos because it gets Close Combat, though it may not even be necessary for wallbreaking in this meta since HP stats are so low that Final Gambit OHKOes most offensive mons anyways (it also OHKOes Max HP Ferroseed lol). 128 Speed is alright, maybe try Scarf? Though it'd miss Band.
252+ Atk Choice Band Reckless Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippopotas: 217-256 (63.8 - 75.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (worth noting that Final Gambit nearly OHKOes)
252+ Atk Choice Band Reckless Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 40 HP / 216+ Def Alomomola: 292-345 (60.7 - 71.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Reckless Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ferrothorn: 219-258 (62.2 - 73.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery


Stats: 65/107/187/53/93/93

Skarm is still a premier physical wall. It for one walls Staraptor (though Final Gambit nearly OHKOes Skarm if Staraptor's running it), which is pretty damn difficult. Darumaka is a big worry but I don't think anything can wall that outside of like Primal Kyogre (PDef Politoed?). It gets Counter to sac itself for something in a pinch provided it still has Sturdy. The main thing going for it is that Magnemite is easier to manage with Diglett/Dugtrio getting big buffs, and Mega Gengar legal.


Stats: 126/112/81/112/83/84

Xerneas still looks pretty good. It can outspeed Abra at +2 with a Modest nature, and the meta should be frail enough that Thunder and perhaps Focus Blast aren't necessary as coverage (it gets Grass Knot/Horn Leech for Quagsire, for one). Diglett is an issue but if you're not willing to run Timid then 124 Defense avoids a 2HKO from EQ. Z-Geomancy is also viable ofc; 132 Speed outspeeds Diglett at +3.
 
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#24
all viable signature items are banned
urkerab please don't haphazardly ban things :(
Sorry, I hadn't checked the original post to see which items you considered viable. I'll remove it next time I update.
obs: i'm at ROM.
If something isn't playing on ROM the way you expect then I'm always the first person to ask, as ROM has a lot of its own code and it's quite possible that some of it is broken.
 

Dioo

formerly fuleno
#25