I barely see either.
Starting to see more Scizors though...
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Scrafty
- Thread starter LudicoloGuy
- Start date
Starting to see more Scizors though...
i see a significant amount of both although skarmory is 2hkoed by fire fang anyway(scizor BP wont ohko mence btw). it can only stop mence for so long...unless of course your entire team is weak to skarm and let it keep rosting forever with no means to deal significant damage bar...fire fang but if that is the case then you probably sucks.
zuzu NEEDS at least +2. you are the one that doesnt understand this. he is just not good enough compared to the other DD users until he reach +2. great he can take -2 specs latios draco meteor although wont scizor BP(or breloom mach punch) ko him after you kill latios? scizor BP wont ko mence after -2 superpower from t-tar either.
you can reach +2 on latios -4 draco meteor but...you will have very little hp left.
zuzu NEEDS at least +2. you are the one that doesnt understand this. he is just not good enough compared to the other DD users until he reach +2. great he can take -2 specs latios draco meteor although wont scizor BP(or breloom mach punch) ko him after you kill latios? scizor BP wont ko mence after -2 superpower from t-tar either.
you can reach +2 on latios -4 draco meteor but...you will have very little hp left.
zuru does not NEED at least +2, you do not understand. it doesnt take him long to reach +2 because it gets a fucking moxie boost. can you understand that???????? why would you send in zuru and set up when you know that your opponent has a scizor remaining? that is just shitting playing on your part.
cool so apparently winning with a 4% zuru isnt the same as a 100% zuru
i honestly think that you are just making up random bs if you think scizor is not common
salamence can set up on ttar's superpower, wonderful, in case you havent noticed, people dont run scarf ttar anymore and more are starting to run ice beam ATM T_T
zuru only needs to boost once until moxie kicks in do you understand????????
try using dd mence this gen and see how effective it is. the people in the mence analysis thread sure dont deem it as great as it once was, while the people in the zuru thread know dd is better than bulk up.
He's still not fast enough. Regardless of his attack, he needs +2 speed. You can say the same thing about Scizor with Salamence.
I can't help but laugh.
1.Scizor is not as common.
2."cool so apparently winning with a 4% zuru isnt the same as a 100% zuru
No. It's not. Because You just barely won.
3.If you haven't noticed,CB tar is the most common set.
4.No,because it'll take an extremely weakened mon for a +1 Scrafty to kill it.
I.E. A Ferrothorn with like 40% HP.
5.I'm using DD Mence. It's just fine.
Wait wtf
Zuru can set up on CBTar's Pursuit yay
+1 Scrafty always OHKOes the standard Ferrothorn with HJK, just fyi
1. You prefer being left with 4% or 100% after a sweep?
2. It was just an example.
3. Again,it's just an example.
i cant help but shake my head
1. scizor is not as common, but still is very common
2. you are the definition of an idiot if you believe theres a difference.
3. ............
play the fucking metagame what the fuck are you playing right now
besides how did we switch from scarftar to bandtar
4. ...
.....
wheres the disappoint smile
5. with all the previous examples, you using dd mence seems like a bad thing for it
edit:
please please please please please tell me what else it needs to outspeed than base 111s. please please please. starmie and azelf are virtually nonexistent please tell me why he needs +2 please please please. most scarfers are over base 100 speed anyway so it revenges mence too.
now it doesnt matter how much hp the pokemon had before sweeping. what matters is if he actually did swept.
i see a scizor at least once every 3 battles. common enough to worry about him at least.
i actually found scarf mixed t-tar to be the most common set what is fine since it gives more chances to setup a DD with mence or nite. not good for zuzu though cause he is outspeed by scarf t-tar at +1 and is ohkoed by superpower.
i see a scizor at least once every 3 battles. common enough to worry about him at least.
i actually found scarf mixed t-tar to be the most common set what is fine since it gives more chances to setup a DD with mence or nite. not good for zuzu though cause he is outspeed by scarf t-tar at +1 and is ohkoed by superpower.
People have responded to this but I just cannot stop myself from responding too.
2) This is probably the most stupid, clueless, ignorant, stupid and stupid line ive seen in a good while. And ive seen the CK quote in the database so believe me when I say ive seen a lot of stupid Pokemon related stuff. Damn I was redundant there, who cares though.
3) Do you realize that by saying "CB Tar is the most common set" not only you are probably basing it out of nowhere as, again, ive seen way more special ice beam / fire move tyranitars than CB, but also are making the point that Zuru is a better sweeper stronger? Crunch, Pursuit, Stone Edge, Zuruzukin can set up on those. Mence can set up on Superpower OR Earthquake. Now tell me who sets up better in CB Tar.
4) lol. Do you even know the basic type chart? Steel = Weak to Fighting, bro.
5) It may be fine, but seriously youre not helping your case. at. all.
1) In case you have not noticed, theres something called Rankurusu, very devastating sweeper indeed. And I bet you didnt know this either, but Scizor is one of very, VERY few Pokemon that can get in on Rankurusu and KO it with ease with a CB U-Turn. Not even that, but ive seen such a huge amount of SD Scizor that id probably go as far to say ive seen more SD Scizor in this stage of BW than in late DPP OU. Why? Nattorei, bulky Latias, CB Spiritomb (look how much Rankurusu makes us centralize, that fucker is broken), and many more common / antimetagame Pokemon existing. SD Scizor can get in on those and sweep a team with barely any problems if given the chance.
2) This is probably the most stupid, clueless, ignorant, stupid and stupid line ive seen in a good while. And ive seen the CK quote in the database so believe me when I say ive seen a lot of stupid Pokemon related stuff. Damn I was redundant there, who cares though.
3) Do you realize that by saying "CB Tar is the most common set" not only you are probably basing it out of nowhere as, again, ive seen way more special ice beam / fire move tyranitars than CB, but also are making the point that Zuru is a better sweeper stronger? Crunch, Pursuit, Stone Edge, Zuruzukin can set up on those. Mence can set up on Superpower OR Earthquake. Now tell me who sets up better in CB Tar.
4) lol. Do you even know the basic type chart? Steel = Weak to Fighting, bro.
5) It may be fine, but seriously youre not helping your case. at. all.
1.Reuniclus isn't broken. Learn to play around him.
Maybe it's just me,but I see Scizor MAYBE once every 10 battles.
T-tar on the other hand,is all over the place.
2.Meh,it doesn't really matter,but it might be better to finish with as much HP,right?
3.He used T-tar as an example. I only said Mence can set up on Superpower.
Mence can set up on other things too.
CB Tar IS one of the most common sets. It dents everything with insanely powerful attacks and it's all over the damn place.
4. Again,just a quick example. Can Scrafty really OHKO that many things with his STABs at +1?
5. How? He said Mence was kinda crappy this gen and I said it's fine. That's it.
FYI,I'm not saying Scrafty is crappy. All I'm saying is that his DD set is out classed by other things that only need ONE single boost to hit hard and not get out sped by every single scarfer in existence.
1. they both are all over the place, you must just have seizures every time you see scizor to not notice it
2. only a shitty player would care
3. umm ok???? zuru can set up on other things too? you sir, are a master in the art of noticing...congrats
cb tar is not the most common set, mixtar with sr clearly is. zuru still sets up on cbtar much easier than mence does anyway
4. yes
5. you saying something is effective is like slandering said pokemon. thats how dumb your arguments are
it only needs 1 boost because it has moxie... it doesnt matter if it gets outsped by scarfskuntank since the only real common scarfers this gen are +100 base speed so they outspeed mence anyway
1.I personally don't see many Scizors.
2.It was a stupid comparison to begin with.(The one with the 4% HP and 100% HP crap)
3.I don't understand what you want me to say. They both can set up on stuff....Scrafty can set up on Dark,Ghost,Psychic,and Rock attacks while Mence can set up on Electric,Water,Grass,Fire,Fighting,and Bug attacks.
I find it easier to set up Mence,personally.
CB Tar IS one of the most common sets >.>
At least that's how I find it. Are you playing on Smogon's server or on PO's server?
4.Kay.
5.It needs more than 1 boost because of its mediocre attack and slow-ass speed.
Moxie wont help if you can't kill something and in-turn get crippled.
1. play more
2. no it wasnt, youre just an idiot who cares that he won with a 4% pokemon instead of 100%. i wouldnt be surprised if you choked away like 100 games in 1000 trying to go for a 6-0 only to get fucked by being stupid.
3. ...........
look at a fucking type chart ok??????
cb tar is not as common as mixsr, i obviously play on smogon server, not that hard to tell with a check by my name, man you really need eye surgery if you cant look at and memorize type charts and miss obvious clues
4. yep
5. ok really the only thing it doesnt kill at +1 are like bulky walls like hippo/skarm, who mence struggles with anyway. tell me, what on earth can cripple zuru. burun? mew? come on be practical
biggest thing:
learn the fucking type charts
1.I play a lot,and I barely seem them. It's not really my fault,is it?
2.It was a stupid comparison.
3......CB tar is the one I see the most. Is all.
What did I get wrong with the types?
Dark/Fighting resists: Dark,Ghost,Psychic,and Rock
Dark/Fighting is weak to: Fighting,Flying
Dragon/Flying resists: Fire,Electric,Grass,Water,Bug,and Fighting
Dragon/Flying is weak to: Dragon,Ice,and Rock
What exactly did I get wrong?
4.Kay.
5.What can cripple him? Thunder Wave,Toxic,WoW,any strong Fighting move,etc. Come on,be practical.
Biggest thing:
Learn the type charts and stop cursing every two sentences.
1. ok
2. no it wasnt, you just lack a brain to comprehend and accept that you make shitty arguments
3. ok
....
please check again. please
please
please
4. mhm
5. yeah you know what? all those moves can cripple pokemon? you know what else? all those moves need a pokemon to initiate those moves. tell me a practical user of will-o-wisp that can burn zuru. tell me a pokemon that can practically take a hit and twave zuru. no tornadeos doesnt count, since it twaves mence too. your fighting point is moot because you can say the same about mence with ice and rock, which are both very common. come on, use a brain cell.
biggest thing:
please double check your work, and stop going to a 13+ forum if you dislike swearing, go to marriland or something.
Okay, how about instead of the pointless banter we test DD and BU versions like the rest of us (or I) have been doing. Seriously, your words are a waste of time.
All your credibility, if you even had ANY left, has gone by that statement. I recommend you stop posting here until you get a slight clue of what you're saying. Also use a space after a fucking comma jesus christ.
Since I cannot stand you anymore, im going to go ahead and post a list of the most common Pokemons in the metagame off the top of my head.
Nattorei - Max/Max+ vs +1 LO Zuru HJK: 418 Atk vs 397 Def & 354 HP (130 Base Power): 380 - 450 (107.34% - 127.12%). GG Nattorei.
Burungeru - Max/Max+ vs +1 LO Zuru Crunch: 418 Atk vs 262 Def & 404 HP (80 Base Power): 356 - 422 (88.12% - 104.46%). OHKO with SR and lefties over 50% of the time and 100% of the time with sandstorm or minimal prior damage.
Gliscor - Max/Max+ vs +1 LO Ice Punch: 418 Atk vs 383 Def & 354 HP (75 Base Power): 308 - 364 (87.01% - 102.82%). 100% chance to KO with SR up, it has to protect to not risk getting OHKOd, and if Zuru gets a DD on it, its game over.
Blissey - lol
Lati@s - lol
Garchomp - Only Scarf Garchomp can do damage to it at +, and fails to OHKO, while a +1 HJK / Ice Punch OHKOs it.
Rankurusu - Max/Max+ taking a +1 Crunch: 418 Atk vs 273 Def & 424 HP (80 Base Power): 342 - 404 (80.66% - 95.28%). This means that it needs an immense amount of bulk to have a chance at surviving, and even then, with no investment in Special Attack, Focus Blast fails to OHKO 4 HP Zuru.
Randorosu - +1 Ice Punch outspeeds and OHKOs, only Scarf can outspeed and needs Sand to even 2HKO.
Birijion - Max/Max+ taking a +1 LO HJK: 418 Atk vs 267 Def & 386 HP (130 Base Power): 283 - 334 (73.32% - 86.53%). This means Birijion can beat Zuru by using Focus Blast while at 100%, but it needs max defense with a +defense nature to survive, something I have never seen anyone do.
Doryuuzu - LO EQ fails to KO Zuru while it OHKOs with HJK.
Tyranitar - lol
Terakion - lol
Urugamosu - +1 Crunch will OHKO even max/max+ versions with SR up, while only max HP takes 418 Atk vs 166 Def & 374 HP (80 Base Power): 282 - 333 (75.40% - 89.04%) from it.
Rotom-A - Takes 418 Atk vs 344 Def & 304 HP (130 Base Power): 220 - 261 (72.37% - 85.86%) from + HJK with Max/Max+, so it has a chance to burn it and thats it, and needs max/max to do so.
Heatran - OHKO
Roobushin - Max HP takes 418 Atk vs 226 Def & 414 HP (130 Base Power): 334 - 394 (80.68% - 95.17%) from a Hi Jump Kick, which is obscene damage and can OHKO with a bit of prior damage or SS + SR, or even Spikes. Mach Punch fails to KO.
Hippowdon - Solid, its only 2HKOd (if Max/max+ by +1 HJK after SR or Spikes, but it needs Roar to do something, because its Earthquake doesnt 2HKO, so Zuru can just DD again and win.
Bronzong - Even max/max+ is 2HKOd by Hi Jump Kick and cant do shit back to Zuru, as Gyro Ball wont 2HKO.
Azumarill - OHKOd by +1 HJK while CB Aqua Jet doesnt KO.
Skarmory - Max/Max+ takes 418 Atk vs 416 Def & 334 HP (130 Base Power): 183 - 216 (54.79% - 64.67%) from +1 HJK, which is a clean 2HKO. Brave Bird, however, can OHKO after LO recoil, so Skarm does a good job.
Scizor - CB Bullet Punch wont KO and HJK OHKOs Max HP Scizor at +1 with LO.
Politoed - Max/Max+ takes 418 Atk vs 273 Def & 384 HP (130 Base Power): 279 - 328 (72.66% - 85.42%) from the Hi Jump Kick, so it needs Max Defense to be able to survive, AND Surf in Rain barely 2HKOs with this spread.
Dragonite - OHKOd by Ice Punch even with Max/Max+ if you have SR up.
So just stop posting. Oh and learn the fucking type chart.
So...a single mistake...makes me lose my credibility?
He's neutral to it,wow. What a freaking horrible mistake,right?
All my respect for you is lost.
Also, start using the damn commas.
I'm convinced by the calculations then.
He can deal with most mons thanks to his STABs,freaking wonderful.
He still kinda needs 2 DDs for that god awful speed,but the calcs don't lie.
Btw,cursing is just unnecessary and makes you look more like an ass.
I've tried both the BU set and the DD set.
I just hate both of them.
BU set gets crippled by everything since he can't take any strong hit and needs multiple BUs to dent anything while the DD set,although not as bad IMO,still just seems to die too easily.
It is a horrible mistake when someone points it out to you, then you continue to miss it and act cocky.
Not sure anyone even wants your respect.
He was using commas, maybe you might want to take my earlier suggestion and get eye surgery.
You know what I've been seeing? You ignoring my points about his speed. I continue to post that he outspeeds what he needs to, and you continue to ignore it and make fallacy posts. Calcs certainly don't lie, as all of those calcs were even beneficial for the defending Pokemon.
Btw, making shitty arguments make it look like you have an extra chromosome.
I have tried both Bulk Up and Dragon Dance, with Dragon Dance being clearly the superior, but both being acceptably viable. Your next sentence makes absolutely no sense. You are saying that fully invested 65/115/115 defenses are bad, so I'm assuming anything short of Skarmory must be a shitty defensive Pokemon to you. Bulk Up cannot actually be crippled by status since it carries Rest and Shed Skin. Dragon Dance dies more easily yes, but your opponent shouldn't be able to hit it in the first place if you know how to play the game.
Just stop q.q
Unfortunately for you I am a huge ass, so that point is moot.
And yes thinking Electric is resisted by Dragon/Flying is a horrible mistake after calling someone out on not knowing the type chart.
And I lost your respect? Damn I didnt even need to try, its all good though ive lost the respect of many many people and to this day I havent given a single fuck.
And for your information, the bulk up set CAN take a lot of strong hits, unless you mean shit like Hurricane from Torunerosu in which case thats a stupid argument because every bulk upper, including that insane Roobushin, has trouble with that kind of strong super effective attack from a strong special attacked. Ps it wont die soon because it has Rest / Shed Sking which means it wont be "crippled by everything". And the reason Bulk Up set is so bulky is because its SUPPOSED to get multiple BUs before starting to sweep.
Im done with you, you just dont get it.
And yes thinking Electric is resisted by Dragon/Flying is a horrible mistake after calling someone out on not knowing the type chart.
And I lost your respect? Damn I didnt even need to try, its all good though ive lost the respect of many many people and to this day I havent given a single fuck.
And for your information, the bulk up set CAN take a lot of strong hits, unless you mean shit like Hurricane from Torunerosu in which case thats a stupid argument because every bulk upper, including that insane Roobushin, has trouble with that kind of strong super effective attack from a strong special attacked. Ps it wont die soon because it has Rest / Shed Sking which means it wont be "crippled by everything". And the reason Bulk Up set is so bulky is because its SUPPOSED to get multiple BUs before starting to sweep.
Im done with you, you just dont get it.
alphatron
Volt turn in every tier! I'm in despair!
^If Roob can survive the LO HJK, then why would he bother using mach punch? Why not drain punch first and then mach punch? Would that kill? Also, don't forget to account for Guts should he have it activated.
Moxie sounds great for this pokemon, but shed skin still doesn't seem too bad at all. Getting status'd isn't something any sweeper likes, so I guess what you want is up to preference. Also, how much is gallade taking from a +1 crunch? As he resists HJK and can will-o-wisp back.
Edit: The bulk up set can take decent hits except for sweeper oriented weather boosted stuff. So long as you aren't trying to bulk up on Gliscor or something, you're usually good to go.
Moxie sounds great for this pokemon, but shed skin still doesn't seem too bad at all. Getting status'd isn't something any sweeper likes, so I guess what you want is up to preference. Also, how much is gallade taking from a +1 crunch? As he resists HJK and can will-o-wisp back.
Edit: The bulk up set can take decent hits except for sweeper oriented weather boosted stuff. So long as you aren't trying to bulk up on Gliscor or something, you're usually good to go.
Roob can only survive the attack if its at absolute max HP, and considering Roobushin is more often than not an opening sweeper, used in early game or very early mid game, it will more often than not be Fainted / Weakened by the time Zuruzukin comes out to sweep. If it has guts activated, Mach Punch still wont KO Zuru, and it means Roob has taken damage if the status is Poison / Burn.
Moxie is the ability to use because it means your opponent cant sac to Zuru. If it does sac, he will be facing a +2 attack Zuru, which makes every close calc above a surefire OHKO. Shed Skin sounds good in theory, but id say that once Zuru is out to sweep its either to end the game or turn the match to you quickly, and without Moxie he would not accomplish that.
Moxie is the ability to use because it means your opponent cant sac to Zuru. If it does sac, he will be facing a +2 attack Zuru, which makes every close calc above a surefire OHKO. Shed Skin sounds good in theory, but id say that once Zuru is out to sweep its either to end the game or turn the match to you quickly, and without Moxie he would not accomplish that.
>.>
It was just a simple mistake really.
Anyway,how can he out speed everything he needs to or even kill anything at +1 with fully invested defenses?
If anything, you're the one that doesn't understand,Pttp.
The BU set can be crippled when you have to freaking spam Rest and PRAY for a 30% chance to wake up because he can't OHKO the monstrosity in front of him and takes like 50% or so from the attack or he just keeps getting pummeled because he wont wake up.
The DD set can't survive much at all because it has to invest in Attack and Speed or be horribly out classed.
Opponents shouldn't be able to hit Scrafty...that makes total sense,especially with his tremendous speed and initial power.
Mence is neutral to Electric. It's close enough.
He does have more opportunities to set up.
NOTE: Not saying Scrafty is crap.
Oh, and btw, you shouldn't call someone out on spelling and crap like that when you make tons of errors yourself.
Whatever. I'm done with this.
Back to talking about SCRAFTY.
He's cool, but he just relies too much on Shed Skin to heal up which often stops my sweeps dead. Other times he wrecks everything, but sometimes he becomes dead weight.
I'll stick with Mence and Dnite.
It was just a simple mistake really.
Anyway,how can he out speed everything he needs to or even kill anything at +1 with fully invested defenses?
If anything, you're the one that doesn't understand,Pttp.
The BU set can be crippled when you have to freaking spam Rest and PRAY for a 30% chance to wake up because he can't OHKO the monstrosity in front of him and takes like 50% or so from the attack or he just keeps getting pummeled because he wont wake up.
The DD set can't survive much at all because it has to invest in Attack and Speed or be horribly out classed.
So now pokemon can magically avoid all attacks?
Opponents shouldn't be able to hit Scrafty...that makes total sense,especially with his tremendous speed and initial power.
Mence is neutral to Electric. It's close enough.
He does have more opportunities to set up.
NOTE: Not saying Scrafty is crap.
Oh, and btw, you shouldn't call someone out on spelling and crap like that when you make tons of errors yourself.
Whatever. I'm done with this.
Back to talking about SCRAFTY.
He's cool, but he just relies too much on Shed Skin to heal up which often stops my sweeps dead. Other times he wrecks everything, but sometimes he becomes dead weight.
I'll stick with Mence and Dnite.