Serperior

[TM13IceBeam]

Smuglord has a relatively shit movepool. Also, all the non-grass type attacking moves Smuglord has are all physical(except for Hidden Power, Mirror Coat, and Twister...). What a troll.

Could a physical set be viable instead?

Smuglord w/ Leftovers
Overgrow
EVs: eh whatever, 252 HP and the rest I don't really bother
--Coil
--Leaf Blade
--Iron Tail
--Return/Dragon Tail

Yeah, quite crappy. >_>

 

[Jaroda]

His attack pool is horrible. However his support move is godly. Magic Coat, Glare, Leech Seed, Coil, Calm Mind, Taunt, Torment, Substitute, so many great options with good stats to back them up. Ironically, it's because of Perversity alone that even with the shallow attack pool, the sweeper set with Leaf Storm is his best option. If Perversity never comes about, Serperior would be top UU support material more likely than not.

 

[TM13IceBeam]

He looks like another Meganium to me. >_> And we all know how much Meganium sucked. This guy doesn't even get DS.

 

[SMZ]

It differs from Meganium in faster SubSeeding and access to somewhat good offensive "OK" offensive options in Coil/Per Leaf Storm.

 

[guanlong]

Jaroda's movepool is outclassed by Flareon's :)
If only other BETTER things had Contrarian; imagine Contrarian Dialga/Palkia/Rayquaza. Now start breathing again. Really, though, Jaroda is a pretty terrible user of the move, with only ONE move that benefits from this epic ability...

 

[UnhandledException]

If only other BETTER things had Contrarian; imagine Contrarian Dialga/Palkia/Rayquaza. Now start breathing again. Really, though, Jaroda is a pretty terrible user of the move, with only ONE move that benefits from this epic ability...

He can always abuse Contrarian Coil....

 

[guanlong]

He can always abuse Contrarian Coil....

INCONSISTENT TROLLING ME?

BEEN NINJA'D BITCH

Is too strongth like Gust Articuno and Air Cutter Zapdos, so obviously only the pros of pros will use this set and find out it's completely OP.

 

[astrohawke]

Jaroda's movepool is outclassed by Flareon's :)
If only other BETTER things had Contrarian; imagine Contrarian Dialga/Palkia/Rayquaza. Now start breathing again. Really, though, Jaroda is a pretty terrible user of the move, with only ONE move that benefits from this epic ability...

If anything better got it, it would pretty much be instantly banned. As it stands, Jaroda is already pretty broken even despite its terrible movepool. With a sub/seed/leaf storm/hidden power fire/ice setup, there's only like 3 things in OU that can actually counter it.

 

[Pombo]

Jalorda isnt a THAT bad contrarian user. I mean, ok, it has an horrible movepool, but also has nice defenses, bulk, and can fake/f*** his counters with subseed.

 

[Raptorg]

Jalorda isnt a THAT bad contrarian user. I mean, ok, it has an horrible movepool, but also has nice defenses, bulk, and can fake/f*** his counters with subseed.

While he would indeed be much better if he actually had a second move to abuse it, I agree that he does a fine job with just one. His coverage is sufficient with HP rock and sub seed. And if you ever get a free turn, you can even leaf storm whoever resists your leaf storm just to get a boost in to hit whatever comes in after that much harder.

 

[November Blue]

If anything better got it, it would pretty much be instantly banned. As it stands, Jaroda is already pretty broken even despite its terrible movepool. With a sub/seed/leaf storm/hidden power fire/ice setup, there's only like 3 things in OU that can actually counter it.

3 Things? I realize that it's good, but that good? Could you elaborate please?

 

[WingedKnight]

Pretty much what everyone has been saying. An additional move with Contrarian-switched effects (Close Combat to boost defenses, for example, even though it's weird flavor-wise) would be a bit over-the-top. He's already an incredible force, and he makes perfect use of the precise set of tools he's been given.

 

[Enlong]

And his physical movepool isnt that bad. With Overgrow, Coil makes Leech Seed/Glare much more accurate and reliable.

 

[Dr. Alex]

I feel that a subseed, HP Water and Leafstorm might be a good set. A little unexpected coming from a subseeder.

However, I barely know anything about the new metagame.

 

[blasphemy1]

Dream World Pokemon get special moves, right? And we can't find them out until we capture them, iirc. That means Serperior might have other options available to it via Dream World. Still, it's one of the best late game sweepers but since it is unreleased I'm not going to update the OP with it (it's an obvious set anyway).

 

[WingedKnight]

Dream World Pokemon get special moves, right? And we can't find them out until we capture them, iirc. That means Serperior might have other options available to it via Dream World. Still, it's one of the best late game sweepers but since it is unreleased I'm not going to update the OP with it (it's an obvious set anyway).

Understandable about the not adding sweeper Leaf Storm set until release, but do you think you can/should edit the thread title to Serperior? The list of names is as good as confirmed.

 

[Jaroda]

I feel that a subseed, HP Water and Leafstorm might be a good set. A little unexpected coming from a subseeder.

However, I barely know anything about the new metagame.

You're entirely walled by Grass types, who can't even be seeded. Ferrothorn 4x resists BOTH of your attacks and can't be seeded. Serperior needs HP Fire the most for Ferrothorn, Skarmory, Scizor, Genosect, etc. It needs HP Ice a little less for Salamence, Dragonite, Lati@s, etc. And it needs HP Ground for Heatran and HP Rock for Volcerona. All those pokemon (bar Lati@s) and a bunch more 4x resist Grass which doesn't even get to neutral damage until you're at +4. So really, it's like pick your poison. Your HP should be determined by the rest of your team, but HP Fire is generally best.

 

[voodoo pimp]

Ferrothorn 2x resists water, and you don't get to normal damage against a 4x resist until +6.

 

[IcyMan28]

Leaf Storm / HP Fire / Sub / Seed is really all that contrarian Jaroda needs. Dragon types? You outspeed them all and can SubSeed. Non-Scarf Heatran? Same, just subseed it.

There are obvious exceptions, but with SubSeed as an asset Jaroda really doesn't need much coverage outside of hitting opposing grass types.

 

[November Blue]

You make subseeding with the serp sound so easy icy. I find the best way to start a sweep/run with serperior is to sub-block a status move, letting you keep the sub up so you can subseed something into KO range and start killing stuff from there.

If you have no sub, dragons and heatran will KO you while you seed them. Unless you sub until their attacks miss, It's not going to happen.

Can anyone post a detailed analysis on serperiors effect on the dream world metagame? I'm keen to hear what people think of it/what it can do.

I've always thought that it's in the same boat as skymin. They're both fast subseeders that outspeed 90% of the metagame, they both have amazing special attacking prowess and are kinda imposing (lol.)

While skymin has coverage and flinching, serperior makes up for it with raw power and versatility. It's lack of offensive moves gives it an excuse to use its plentiful support movepool. It's one of the fastest subseeders in OU, it can taunt and torment, threatening stall considerably and has access to the rare glare which has been buffed up to 90% accuracy. Stun spore is only 75% and Serperior doesn't learn stun spore.

It also has decent bulk with 75/95/95 defenses. Compare these to altaria (75/90/105) venusaur (80/83/100) Rotom appliance (50/107/107) Spiritomb (50/108/108) starmie (60/85/85) xatu (65/70/70) darkrai (70/90/90) scizor (70/100/80) you get the idea.

Look at those stats. Typing aside, Serperior is bulkier than all of these pokemon (The ghosts low HP balances out, right?) For such a fast and powerful pokemon it should have defenses comparable to weavile of infernape.

A bulky set could work. I'm going to try 180 HP / 24 Def / 60 SpA / 244 Spe Timid. That's 354 speed, one point faster than thundurus and uh... tornelos. I settled for 200 special attack (800 at +6, which is still huge) 336 HP for a lefties number and the rest in defense. Leftovers, subseed and HP fire.

Any suggestions?

EDIT: Just had a look, and it learns gastro acid and mean look of all things. Why has noone mentioned this before??? A mean look, sub, hp and leaf storm set sounds ten times worse than shadow tag nitro charge/calm mind chandelure. This has sooo much potential.

 

[UnhandledException]

EDIT: Just had a look, and it learns gastro acid and mean look of all things. Why has noone mentioned this before??? A mean look, sub, hp and leaf storm set sounds ten times worse than shadow tag nitro charge/calm mind chandelure. This has sooo much potential.

You'll only be locking their counter with mean look, no one is going to keep something vulnerable to Jaroda in on it.

 

[November Blue]

EDIT: @ UnhandledException

I hereby dub thee "The Voice Of Negativity."

Seriously, you say no to everything. I trapped a forry just before, set up while it laid spikes and swept everything.

Go try it. Once you trap something and kill it with max HP, a sub and 900+ special attack set up, you're doing it right.

 

[PokéMontage]

But why would somebody leave a Forretress in on a Serperior? I thought most Serperior carry HP Fire.

 

[WingedKnight]

But why would somebody leave a Forretress in on a Serperior? I thought most Serperior carry HP Fire.

Serperior's HP of choice is really a toss-up. Fire, Ice, and Rock are the best choices considering his counters, and the choice should be made based on your team. I personally use Rock cause it covers Fire and Flying types, plus hits a lot of important Pokemon at least neutrally. Steels are annoying, but Leech Seed, Glare, or just mowing through them can work depending on the set. The Giga Drain set I've been testing can outstall for damage by recovering if they don't have an answer that will KO me right away.

 

[UnhandledException]

EDIT: @ UnhandledException

I hereby dub thee "The Voice Of Negativity."

Seriously, you say no to everything. I trapped a forry just before, set up while it laid spikes and swept everything.

Go try it. Once you trap something and kill it with max HP, a sub and 900+ special attack set up, you're doing it right.

Lol. Well, what doesn't work doesn't work. The fact that you trapped a Forry before doesn't change the fact that Mean Look trapping is too situational to be effective consistently. Also wth why did he let you set up Subs, he should've just kept spamming Gyro Ball or something....