If you really want to avoid getting stopped by Talonflame you should run Aqua Jet. Too lazy too calc, but I'm pretty sure Aqua Jet does about 50% to Talonflame. So it's not a OHKO, but assuming Talonflame is slightly weakened (which isnt that hard considering it has a 4x weakness to stealth rock and relies on recoil moves) Sharpedo won't have a sweep stopped by it.
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Pokémon Sharpedo
- Thread starter ScraftyIsTheBest
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That 70% accuracy makes it not so good a move.
Hydro Pump is 80% accurate...
How much does Skarm take from HPump, and much investment does Sharp actually need?
Calcs are down for me.
0 SpA Sharpedo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Skarmory: 171-202 (51.1 - 60.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Strong Jaw boosted Crunch will let you finish Skarmory off if SR is up.
252+ Atk Strong Jaw Sharpedo Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 129-153 (38.6 - 45.8%) -- 11.7% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Minimum damage is 89.7% with both.
If people are actually running both Hydro Pump and Superfang/Ice Beam wouldn't it be better to go LO Sharp?
mega shark has overall more offensive presence to use a super fang set because:
1. Most sharpedo switchins do not appreciate super fang + strong jaw boosted moves. You only need enough investment in spA prowess to 2hko things like skarmory anyway. If you went with a normal life orb sharpedo, the extra damage output from spA is not enough to hurt much and can leave you checked much more easily from bulky waters, porygon, amoonguss, etc. Its also not its best stat; if you wanted a special attacking water type, go with clawitzer or greninja.
2. Its physical movepool and stats is way more threatening and obliterates a wider variety of mons. They hurt more and do more damage overall; mega sharpedo can actually muscle through because of this.
3. The only type immune to super fang is ghost. Strong jaw dark stab complements this to annihilate even the bulkiest of ghosts. Aegislash can now die in one hit for example.
4. You also won't get worn down and can come in multiple times during a match without losing offensive momentum. This is an important distinction as compared to cleaner variants who only have one chance.
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Is Porygon even a thing in OU? Clawitzer definitely isn't, Amoonguss wasn't exactly common last time I checked either, the only really relevant strong jaw boosted move seems to be Crunch as people are opting for Ice Beam over Ice Fang and Poison Jab is a fine alternative for Poison Fang (which isn't that great to begin with).
I'm not saying run a special set, I'm saying if you're already running Hydro Pump and Ice Beam wouldn't a non mega LO set be better? (I did some calcs and the difference on Crunch is probably big enough to make the mega worth it just for that, the other physical moves aren't really spectacular).
Cool story, also Aegislash is uber last I checked and there's no bulky ghosts in OU.
What? If anything Mega Sharpedo is more limited to the amount of times it can come in as you'll ideally want to grab at least one speed boost before doing anything else, LO recoil is an issue but Sharp isnt taking much of a beating anyway, mega or not.
Ps. Just to be clear, after doing calcs, I'm convinced Mega Sharpedo is worth it over LO Sharp even when running HPump and Ice Beam as Crunch is much much stronger.
When i mentioned clawitzer. Im just saying it as an example of a specially based water attacker, not whether its relevant or not. Also pory2 was occasionally common in previous metas including this one. I'll admit amoonguss maybe wasnt the best example.
Aegislash is just an example. I felt it was worth mentioning because it doesn't die to normal sharpedo crunch, as it was pretty important in xy.
I mentioned mshark coming in multiple times because you said it was a super fang set. Usually those sets are more for wallbreaking, which dont take speed as much of importance.
Maybe it helps that I play on pokebattle and PO more than showdown? Probably caused your concerns.
I know it's probably not really a huge difference maker in whether or not someone chose Poison Fang or Poison Jab, but something people seem to overlook is that they are comparing the poison damage plus the battle damage as if both were a given, completely overlooking the rather huge difference in how often the poison kicks in. Poison Jab's 30% is nice, sure, and if it DOES kick in, you'll be doing more damage, but Poison Fang's chance of kicking in with the secondary effect is much higher, at 50%. Therefor, 20% of the time, you'll be doing more damage, period, since you'll get toxic damage while Poison Jab's doesn't kick in for that 20 percent. If that doesn't sound like much, 20 percent is what got Stone Miss its derisive nickname, so it substantial.
So, not really a huge deal, but I think both are very valid choices for that reason, and why I would be inclined to pick fang, 5 BP be damned.
So, not really a huge deal, but I think both are very valid choices for that reason, and why I would be inclined to pick fang, 5 BP be damned.
I have played against so many people trying out M-Sharpedo, but I have never seen it do much of anything. It is much too predictable having to rely on Protect to get the boost up. The main problem is that it is easy to force out and when it is forced out it can't get the speed boost again. I just don't see why you should waste your mega slot for M-Sharpedo when you could go for Azumarill or Crawdaunt and attack right off the bat.
Perhaps I am being a bit too harsh. Most of the players I have seen using M-Sharpedo have sent it out as their first pokemon and attempt to sweep with it. I am guessing that you would want to hold onto it until the late game as a cleaner.
Perhaps I am being a bit too harsh. Most of the players I have seen using M-Sharpedo have sent it out as their first pokemon and attempt to sweep with it. I am guessing that you would want to hold onto it until the late game as a cleaner.
I think that's the main issue. If it was a standalone Pokemon, even with only one opportunity to net a speed boost, it'd be pretty cool. But it's a one-shot, one-trick pony that competes with all the other megas. I love Sharpedo, I do, but there's things with far better payoff than it available.
That said, this thread is really about seeing how to use it optimally, so we can assume anyone contributing wants to use it regardless of all of all of its cons.
So, to forward discussion: Exactly how mandatory is Protect? Assuming a knowledgeable opponent, they'll assume you're going to use Protect and will use that turn to set up or switch, and you'd be better off using a coverage move that turn. But that only works if they think you'll use protect, so it's not really something that can become standard. But are there any significant gains from attacking with regular Sharpedo that turn?
That said, this thread is really about seeing how to use it optimally, so we can assume anyone contributing wants to use it regardless of all of all of its cons.
So, to forward discussion: Exactly how mandatory is Protect? Assuming a knowledgeable opponent, they'll assume you're going to use Protect and will use that turn to set up or switch, and you'd be better off using a coverage move that turn. But that only works if they think you'll use protect, so it's not really something that can become standard. But are there any significant gains from attacking with regular Sharpedo that turn?
M-Sharp is a late game cleaner. Azumarill is slow, more bulky, and is a fairy. Crawdaunt, while same typing, is just as frail, slower, and a wallbreaker.
You don't even require protect first turn. You can go for an attack if your opponents at low hp, and is outsped. M-Sharp isn't easily forced out unless theres a priority user on the field (Only ones that'll do some dmg are Mach punch, Espeed, and TFlame)
And yeah, never send sharp out first.
It is easily forced out by anything that can take a hit and then fight back. But who knows? Maybe I just got a bad impression since I've seen M-Sharpedo misused so many times. It is odd how many people are sending it out first only to have it's only speed boost for the game wasted.
It is probably there since most M-Sharpedo sets are going to have it on them. The whole Speed Boost plan sort of relies on it. Plus not every pokemon can have Protect. Just look at Magikarp! ;)
I dont have much time now, so I might come back and edit this, but it sounds like you people(except kaxrida) are using sharpedo wrong.
First off I think his best moveset is protect/crunch/waterfall/icefang I have had more use for ice fang than I have with ice beam because ice fang kills all the things ice beam does, but ice fang hits things like dragonite and altaria harder, as well as having a flinch chance(which just recently won me a game). But anyway if sharpedo is playing against stall, mega evolve immediately and just destroy them, stall has virtually no switchins and debating over what poison type move to use is irrelevant especially when the mon you will be hitting with it most is clefable which is immune to status damage... I seriously dont understand what all that debate was about.
Here is a good replay of a core I built, stallbreaking talon+ sharpedo its a relatively high ladder match(high enough to be relevant) http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-190818764
I think this replay shows that sharpedo relies on raw mother fucking power to do its job against balance/defensive teams. NOT poison damage or trying to stall them out, because he will get stalled out every time, he needs to be 2hkoing something or you are using him wrong. (everything I said applies to how to use him against stall teams)
Verse offense he is basically a completely different mon, he relies on speed to beat everything so you really only get one chance, but thats typically all he needs. I mean only bad players send out sharpedo against offense if he cant sweep,( or they have another wincon and just want to weaken something), but seriously Sharpedo is one of the best megas in the game imo, he won me more games than I can count and against good players too. Just because you see him used by idiots on the lower ladder doesnt mean he is bad. If you play with him against offense you seriously just need to eliminate/weaken like 5 mons. And when I say 5 mons I dont mean 5 mons on the team its usually 1-2, but there are only like 5 mons on offensive teams that can even live a hit from sharpedo, so if you lose that basically means that the other 5 members of your team couldnt even take out/damage 1-2 mons, you built your team wrong if that is the case.
tl;dr Sharpedo is a GOD, if you think he is bad, you are probably just bad.
I just love sharpedo and think hes under rated af, Im kinda just trolling around, although I mean everything I said,k bye.
First off I think his best moveset is protect/crunch/waterfall/icefang I have had more use for ice fang than I have with ice beam because ice fang kills all the things ice beam does, but ice fang hits things like dragonite and altaria harder, as well as having a flinch chance(which just recently won me a game). But anyway if sharpedo is playing against stall, mega evolve immediately and just destroy them, stall has virtually no switchins and debating over what poison type move to use is irrelevant especially when the mon you will be hitting with it most is clefable which is immune to status damage... I seriously dont understand what all that debate was about.
Here is a good replay of a core I built, stallbreaking talon+ sharpedo its a relatively high ladder match(high enough to be relevant) http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-190818764
I think this replay shows that sharpedo relies on raw mother fucking power to do its job against balance/defensive teams. NOT poison damage or trying to stall them out, because he will get stalled out every time, he needs to be 2hkoing something or you are using him wrong. (everything I said applies to how to use him against stall teams)
Verse offense he is basically a completely different mon, he relies on speed to beat everything so you really only get one chance, but thats typically all he needs. I mean only bad players send out sharpedo against offense if he cant sweep,( or they have another wincon and just want to weaken something), but seriously Sharpedo is one of the best megas in the game imo, he won me more games than I can count and against good players too. Just because you see him used by idiots on the lower ladder doesnt mean he is bad. If you play with him against offense you seriously just need to eliminate/weaken like 5 mons. And when I say 5 mons I dont mean 5 mons on the team its usually 1-2, but there are only like 5 mons on offensive teams that can even live a hit from sharpedo, so if you lose that basically means that the other 5 members of your team couldnt even take out/damage 1-2 mons, you built your team wrong if that is the case.
tl;dr Sharpedo is a GOD, if you think he is bad, you are probably just bad.
I just love sharpedo and think hes under rated af, Im kinda just trolling around, although I mean everything I said,k bye.
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Ash Borer
I've heard they're short of room in hell
Ice fang doesnt kill dnite with multi, neither does ice beam. Both kill it without multi. Ice fang does less to chesnaught and fails to OHKO lando-t. It also has no chance to OHKO Gliscor while Ice Beam can against non-sdef variants. Ice Fang is a lot better for Altaria, but this is if it's not phys. def. Ice Beam does abou 50% to the offensive variants, so it's hard to say if that's usually enough late in the game.
You're basically looking at more easily beating Lando-T/Chesnaught vs. more easily beating Altaria
I like Ice Beam way more because it was pretty heartbreaking what kind of damage it did to megamence after intimidate ;( and I expected it to stick arond abit longer but I guess if Altaria becomes more popular Ice Fang will be not-useless
You're basically looking at more easily beating Lando-T/Chesnaught vs. more easily beating Altaria
I like Ice Beam way more because it was pretty heartbreaking what kind of damage it did to megamence after intimidate ;( and I expected it to stick arond abit longer but I guess if Altaria becomes more popular Ice Fang will be not-useless
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