Combinations are inherently up for debate. That's kind of the point -- there is a large subjective based component to them; ASB has been like that since it's inception. I don't think it's unreasonable for me to find frustration in a referee making blanket statements that exist nowhere. To ignore all evidence with "you can't combine contact and non-contact moves" is a bit disappointing. There is no codification of such a rule, and people make wonky combinations all the time. Physical + Special / Offensive + Status / Different Types happens frequently.
In a case where subjectivity is required, of course I am going to bring outside sources into play. Smash Bros. games are generally reliable sources with large databases of information (trophies and stickers) and a part of its history. Of course I won't bring up Rock Smash; BAP is not up for debate. Combinations are, so of course I will debate it.
I'm not interested in threats on timing either. I'm here to play a good match, lol. I would like a reply from The Wanderer on the following counter-arguments to his decision. If he doesn't provide one, I'd like to request a sub-referee who is willing to respond to my points. If that isn't allowed, then I would like to take this to the council to get an official vote. Anyways, counter-arguments:
1) Deflection of physical and special attacks is identical in animation in Smash Bros.
2) Deflection of physical and special attacks for Wobbuffet is identical in the anime (read below).
3) I'd like some counter-argument of what in particular The Wanderer finds illegal about this combination besides blanket statements of codifications that don't exist.
Finally, I'm not interested in tacking names onto this. I can contact numerous people on IRC (Canis / tavok / Flamestrike / etc) who have stated previously that they could see this combination as viable. Moot point, really.
[00:24] <Canis_Majoris> seems real unfair wobba can't use counter + mirror coat when it's a very bad mon either way
[00:24] <Canis_Majoris> it's super susceptible to knock off + taunt
[00:25] <tavok> uuuh... I actually think it is viable
[00:25] <Canis_Majoris> (which pretty much most relatively good mons get)
[00:25] <tavok> beecause anime
[00:25] <Cube> Taunted Wobba = ;___;
[00:25] <Canis_Majoris> sableye is completely immune to wobba
[00:25] <%Birkal> if you guys have support to make, please post
[00:25] <Canis_Majoris> and so is spiritomb
[00:25] <%Birkal> I have a lot of trouble believing it is not a viable combo
[00:25] <%Birkal> for a lot of reasons
[00:25] <tavok> but I can see counter + mirror coat working
[00:26] <tavok> I mean, in the anime, when wobbu uses both, he does pretty much the same thing
[00:26] <Canis_Majoris> i can see it for wobba
[00:26] <Canis_Majoris> not anyone else
[00:26] <tavok> I think the only thing that changes is the color he glows?
[00:26] <Canis_Majoris> (because seriously, counter + mirror coat swampert)
[00:26] <Lad> (or Krillowatt, for that matter)
[00:26] <Canis_Majoris> (krill too right)
[00:26] <Avnomke> (Gastrodon)
[00:26] <Canis_Majoris> !search counter, mirror coat
[00:26] <TIBot> Squirtle, Wartortle, Blastoise, Wobbuffet, Smeargle, Mudkip, Marshtomp, Swampert, Wynaut, Deoxys, Shellos, Gastrodon
[00:26] <tavok> (why are we talking like this)
[00:27] <Avnomke> (I don't know)
[00:27] <&@dogfish44> Counter + Mirror Coat. One is a special attack, one is physical.
[00:27] <tavok> (wow, those are a ton)
[00:27] <Canis_Majoris> basically all of those
[00:27] <Lad> (Because I don't know)
[00:27] <Canis_Majoris> dogfish44 how does that have to do with anything
[00:27] <Canis_Majoris> razor leaf + magical leaf works
[00:27] <Canis_Majoris> pretty sure razor leaf + leaf storm can work
[00:27] <Lad> Counter is contact. Mirror coat is not.
[00:27] <&@dogfish44> RL+ML is one of the few ases that works
[00:27] <&@dogfish44> and what Lad said
[00:27] <tavok> so?
[00:27] <&@dogfish44> *few cases
[00:27] <Canis_Majoris> pretty sure we've had contact + non-contact before
[00:28] <tavok> the handbook doesn't say that contact and non contact doesn't work
[00:28] <tavok> it says they PROBABLY won't work
[00:28] <%Birkal> furthermore, people combine special / physical moves
[00:28] <%Birkal> people combine status / offensive moves
[00:28] <%Birkal> combos are inherently subjective
[00:28] <Canis_Majoris> Honestly Dogfish44
[00:28] <%Birkal> there is no blanket statement you can apply to this
[00:28] <tavok> also, has anyone really used knock off + taunt? .-. or was that just two actions
[00:28] <%Birkal> he meant the moves
[00:28] <Canis_Majoris> If Counter + Mirror Coat can't be viable (even if just for Wobba)
[00:28] <%Birkal> not the combo lol
[00:28] <Canis_Majoris> Then neither can Taunt + Snarl ever.
[00:28] <tavok> oh, ok
[00:28] <Avnomke> as in it's weak to Knock Off followed by Taunt
[00:29] <tavok> o-k
[00:29] <tavok> just making sure
[00:29] <tavok> just look for that chapter where team rocket learns the difference between counter and mirror coat
[00:29] <Canis_Majoris> What was that quote that was around
[00:29] <Canis_Majoris> Did they ban crits in competitive yet
[00:29] <tavok> both attacks are used that chapter, and they look pretty much the same iirc
[00:29] <Canis_Majoris> and also all forms of luck
[00:29] <Canis_Majoris> and also fun
[00:29] <tavok> just different colors, I think
[00:30] <Avnomke> that was red
[00:31] <Canis_Majoris> Honestly, I wouldn't care as much if the mon in question was any other mon (that wasn't Smeargle)
[00:31] <Canis_Majoris> since most mons with counter + mirror coat are respectable in their own right (and both blastoise and swampert get bide)
[00:31] <Canis_Majoris> but it's freaking wobba
[00:31] <Canis_Majoris> who doesn't get /any/ sort of damage
[00:32] <&@dogfish44> Physical Contact + Special Non-Contact really need justification (Ask on IRC, that's enough to at least warrant a re-order) or precedent (Anime usage of Aqua Jet + Ice Beam or ASB usage, which at very least warrants a reorder) :\
[00:32] <&@dogfish44> AJ + IC has anime precedent... which I hate :|