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Sigilyph (Analysis)

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by cosmicexplorer, May 8, 2011.

  1. cosmicexplorer

    cosmicexplorer pewpewpew
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    [​IMG]
    Sigilyph
    [​IMG][​IMG]

    [Overview]

    <p>While this flying totem pole might not initially strike fear into your heart, Sigilyph's reasonable bulk and good Speed stat, along with access to Tailwind and Magic Guard, make it an excellent Tailwind attacker. Its powerful Psychic-type STAB gives it super effective coverage against the abundant Fighting-types, while its typing allows it to take any Fighting-type attack with ease. That typing also hurts it, though, since it gives Sigilyph weaknesses to many common attacks such as Rock Slide and Shadow Ball, and while Sigilyph's good bulk allows it to take a hit, its somewhat low Speed makes it susceptible to many faster attackers such as Archeops and Terrakion. Overall, Sigilyph is a great Tailwind user and abuser, and makes a useful addition to almost any team.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Tailwind Attacker
    move 1: Psychic
    move 2: Ice Beam / Air Slash
    move 3: Tailwind
    move 4: Shadow Ball / Protect
    item: Life Orb
    ability: Magic Guard
    nature: Modest
    evs: 36 HP / 252 Def / 220 SpA

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Sigilyph's access to both Tailwind and Magic Guard, along with a usable Special Attack stat, make it an effective Tailwind attacker. Psychic is its STAB move of choice, attaining key OHKOs on every Fighting-type Pokemon and hitting Amoonguss for huge damage. Ice Beam adds to Sigilyph's coverage, OHKOing the genies and most of the many Pokemon weak to Ice-type attacks. Tailwind allows Sigilyph to support its team and boost its own Speed. Shadow Ball deals decent damage to most Ghost- and Psychic-types, making Sigilyph much more effective against opposing Trick Room teams.</p>

    <p>Air Slash hits various Pokemon for more damage than Ice Beam, including Virizion, Zoroark, Scrafty, and Whimsicott, and provides better neutral coverage than Ice Beam. However, Ice Beam still hits the genies, Haxorus, Hydreigon, and Krookodile harder, and due to their high usage, it's usually the better option. As Sigilyph was various weaknesses, Protect can be useful, allowing a teammate to take out a Pokemon such as Thundurus that may threaten Sigilyph. However, it does make Sigilyph far less effective against opposing Trick Room teams, meaning it is an inferior option.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Magic Guard removes Life Orb recoil, allowing Sigilyph to hit hard without compromising its good bulk. The EVs and nature allow Sigilyph to always OHKO 4 HP genies with Ice Beam while maintaining great physical durability; it can even take an Archeops's Flying Gem Acrobatics and have a 67.3% chance to survive. An alternative EV spread of 28 HP / 252 SpA / 228 Spe is a viable option, allowing Sigilyph to outspeed Timid Chandelure and Adamant Krookodile outside of Tailwind, but the reduced bulk in comparison to the first spread is quite noticeable, and makes Sigilyph far more susceptible to Rock Slide than a bulkier spread.</p>

    <p>Most Pokemon that enjoy a Tailwind boost will appreciate Sigilyph as a partner. Additionally, its ability to OHKO Terrakion and other Fighting-types with its STAB Psychic makes it a good partner for Pokemon such as your own Terrakion or Scrafty, which can then proceed to attack with their common checks removed. Sigilyph's ability to OHKO Tornadus with Ice Beam and set up Tailwind is especially useful for Pokemon such as Conkeldurr or Amoonguss which Tornadus commonly checks.</p>

    <p>This set requires a good deal of support to work well. Although it has excellent physical bulk, allowing it to tank many hits, Sigilyph is often KOed by super effective special attacks such as Thundurus's Thunderbolt and Chandelure's Shadow Ball. For this reason, a Fake Out user such as Scrafty or Mienshao can help tremendously, immobilizing these checks while Sigilyph sets up Tailwind, allowing it to do good damage the next turn. A powerful Choice Scarf user such as Chandelure or Darmanitan can also be helpful, OHKOing Pokemon that threaten Sigilyph, such as Thundurus, before they can attack.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Sigilyph's good defenses, excellent Psychic typing, and Magic Guard makes it an ideal initiator of a Skill Swap chain. If it is able to transfer, for example, Thundurus's Prankster to Amoonguss, your opponents are in for a world of hurt. Magic Guard is also an excellent ability to Skill Swap to another Pokemon, making Sigilyph ideal for the role. However, the strategy is ruined if any Pokemon in the chain is KOed, and as such is not very reliable. Sigilyph has access to Reflect and Light Screen, and with its relatively high Speed and good defenses, it can make for a useful dual screen user. However, Sigilyph's ability to burn opponents with Psycho Shift makes Reflect generally useless, and Sigilyph is much more effective setting up Tailwind than setting up dual screens. Thunder Wave may seem useful for lowering an opponent's Speed, but Tailwind does that far more effectively, making Thunder Wave useless. Sigilyph has access to Trick Room, but with its relatively high Speed stat for a Trick Room team, it's easily outclassed by slower Trick Room users such as Musharna or Reuniclus.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Thundurus can do severe damage to Sigilyph with its STAB Thunderbolt, but a specially defensive EV spread allows Sigilyph to take a Thunderbolt and set up Tailwind. Many Rock Slide users can do significant damage to Sigilyph, but must watch out for the odd Psycho Shift, which will neuter their offensive capabilities, and Roost, which allows Sigilyph to take a slower Rock Slide with ease while recovering health. Taunt users such as Thundurus, Tornadus, and Whimicott can stop Sigilyph from using Tailwind, but must watch out for Mental Herb.</p>

    <p>Dark-types such as Scrafty and Krookodile can deal severe damage with their STAB Crunch, but must watch out for Psycho Shift, which neuters their offensive capabilities by inflicting burn. A special attacking Hydreigon doesn't care about a burn, and can deal significant damage with its STAB Dark Pulse, but it must watch out for a Life Orb-boosted Ice Beam, which will do severe damage. Ice-types such as Vanilluxe can do huge damage with their super effective STAB attacks, but Sigilyph's good defenses allow it to take most Ice Beams and set up Tailwind with a defensive set, and Roost will allow it to remove its weakness while recovering health.</p>
  2. muffinhead

    muffinhead b202 wifi vgc
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    possibly mention hydreigon as the best counter, outspeeds and immune to psychic.
    also maybe air slash over psychic. it can hit scrafty and maintains coverage on amoonguss / conkeldurr.
    mental herb is really useless here, most pokemon would just attack it anyways, and psycho shift is more useful

    edit: evan is right im a derp
  3. cosmicexplorer

    cosmicexplorer pewpewpew
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    Psychic hits Terrakion, so I'm keeping it as the main slash, but yeah, I'll move Mental Herb to OO.

    Otherwise, you're right on all counts, and I've made the changes.
  4. evan

    evan I did my best -- I have no regrets
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    Hydreigon counters if sigilyph isn't packing Ice Beam (which definitely deserves a mention in OO at least or on an attacking set). With Magic Guard Sigilyph can abuse Life Orb to give it some more power behind its not too impressive attack stats.

    Also
    [16:22] <%evan> you're only hitting scrafty harder w/ air slash
    [16:23] <%evan> i'd rather have ice beam than air slash

    and
    [16:23] <%evan> sigilyph can also run both tailwind and trick room at the same time
    [16:23] <%evan> but that was really only useful w/ no team preview

    a speed control set could still be useful to keep opponents guessing though.

    (also, what tailwind leads are stopped by amoonguss? amoonguss only wins against Tornadus if it has coba berry and Whimsicott if it has Mental Herb.)
  5. cosmicexplorer

    cosmicexplorer pewpewpew
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    Amoonguss almost always runs either of those items, so Sigilyph is slightly different, but yeah, I see your point. I'll remove that sentence. I don't know how I missed Ice Beam, it is absolutely useful. I''ve moved it to second slash. While I really think Sigilyph is outclassed in an attacking role by Tornadus as a Tailwind user, I'll put a mention in Other Options. I don't really think Tailwind and Trick Room is very useful at all with Team Preview, like you said, but if you've used it and disagree, I'll put in a mention. Thanks for the feedback.
  6. Darkmalice

    Darkmalice Like a facepalm, but better
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    Use an EV spread of 252 HP / 124 Def / 128 SpD / 4 Spe Calm nature, which gives better durability on both sides than your spread. 4 EVs in Spe, as it won't do anything if added to Def or SpD. It could be placed in SpA, but it's helpful for outspeeding other Sigilyph and 0 Spe Haxorus should you ever find one. To replace your alternate EV spread, use 252 HP / 140 Def / 116 SpD with a Calm nature, as it enables Sigilyph to survive Jolly Archeops' Fight Jewel whilst it can usually survive Timid Thundurus' Thunderbolt (it deals 84.9 - 100.6%).

    Also, Mental Herb shouldn't be slashed with Flame Orb when Psycho Shift is an unslashed move and Mental Herb is already mentioned in OO.
  7. DFrog

    DFrog

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    No stored power set? Whenever I play thats the set i tend to see the most. I dont use it that often but the moveset is:
    Roost/Cosmic Power or Calm Mind/Psycho Shift or Ice Beam/Stored Power
    Also the item is Flame Orb/Toxic Orb
    Just a mention
  8. Human

    Human

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    It looks like that with Mental Herb this thing is outclassed by Mandibuzz as the bulky Tailwinder. Mandibuzz has superior defensive typing and stats with Mental Herb at least. The niche that this pokemon can carve out for itself in the metagame seems to be Tailwind + Psycho Shift with Flame Orb and the ability Magic Guard. Another thing is that I think the second EV spread should be mentioned first if it also lets it survive Terrakion's Rock Gem boosted Rock Slide, which I'm pretty sure it can, because Thundurus can use Electric Gem or Life Orb and end up getting the OHKO, its item of choice is very unpredictable, and absolutely walling Physical attackers seems like a good idea to me for Sigilyph.
  9. cosmicexplorer

    cosmicexplorer pewpewpew
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    That's a good point, I'll remove Mental Herb completely.

    As for the EV spread, thank you so much Darkmalice. I'm putting 252 HP / 132 Def / 124 SpD Calm as the first spread (Archeops's Flight Gem Acrobatics has the same chance to KO as 140 Def), and a fully physically defensive spread like Human suggested as the second slash.

    EDIT: I just checked the damage on two separate calcs, and apparently Sigilyph requires 252 HP / 148 Def to always survive Archeops's Flight Gem-boosted Acrobatics. Making the changes now.

    132 Def: 85.5%-101.1%
    140 Def: 85.5%-100.6%
    148 Def: 84.4%-99.4%
  10. Kinneas

    Kinneas
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    I think an offensive set should be added. Life Orb Sigilyph hits very hard without any recoil thanks to Magic Guard. Psychic and Ice Beam provide excellent coverage and it can even support with Tailwind. Shadow Ball or Energy Ball can provide even more coverage, it has quite a few options. Think of it as a Tailwind version of LO Reuniclus.

    If anything I would say a LO set is more viable than "bulky tailwind", which is quite a niche niche. I see very little reason to use Sigilyph as a primary tailwind set up Pokémon when the prankster Tailwind Pokémon do it so much better. Perhaps in the back as a last resort, but then I would still rather have the ability to dish out a ton of damage after setting up tailwind.

    Sigilyph (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Magic Guard
    EVs: 28 HP / 252 SAtk / 228 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Psychic
    - Ice Beam
    - Shadow Ball
    - Protect/ Tailwind
  11. cosmicexplorer

    cosmicexplorer pewpewpew
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    Thanks a lot. I'll test that out.
  12. cosmicexplorer

    cosmicexplorer pewpewpew
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    OK, I've tested that set, and it's surprisingly good. However, I think a few variations to the EV spread make it a little more effective. While 228 Speed outspeeds stuff like Timid Chandelure and Adamant Krookodile, an alternate spread of 52 HP / 252 Def / 204 SpA Modest allows it to take Rock Slides and Acrobatics a lot more easily, still OHKO 4 HP genies with Ice Beam, and still outspeed a lot of stuff with Tailwind up. I've also found Shadow Ball to be only marginally useful, except against opposing Trick Room teams, so while it's good, I think Protect is generally more useful. I'll edit in the set now.

    EDIT: Done.
  13. Kinneas

    Kinneas
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    QC approved 1/2

    I hadn't put a great deal of thought into the EVs but the spread you suggested seems much better. good job.

    Edit: touch screen phone updating is hard
  14. Darkmalice

    Darkmalice Like a facepalm, but better
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    The second set needs 140 Def, as with 148, it hits an EV total of 516, which is illegal.

    Also, for the first set
    Actually, it only OHKOes 0/0 Geniis. 4 HP Thundurus and Tornadus have a 7% chance to survive. You need 220 SpA EVs to guarantee the OHKO on them.

    Also, 204 SpA EVs give the same SpA as 200 SpA EVs, which mean you're wasting 4 EVs. You could put it in SpD

    @Human: Yeah, you're right about the Def. I have no idea why I said that. But 204 SpA and 200 SpA EVs both give 163 SpA, so he still wastes 4 EVs.
  15. Human

    Human

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    No, he is not wasting 8 EVs. Each IV counts as four EVs and because flawless (31) ends with an odd for the first stat boost it is only four EVs necessary then you need 8 EVs for each stat boost afterwards. Also two days ago there was a set thought up of that might make it something that works really well with Thundurus, skill swap to get Prankster and give Thundurus Magic Guard and it helps ruin Conkeldurr with Skill Swap so its attack becomes halfed. This idea for Sigilyph is something I'd have to test first though to see if it is even usable.
  16. cosmicexplorer

    cosmicexplorer pewpewpew
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    Thanks for the stamp Kinneas.

    Darkmalice thank you so much, my calc must have been messed up. I really appreciate it. It's now 36 HP / 252 Def / 220 SpA.

    Human, I really don't think that set will work because of Sigilyph's lowish Speed and only decent bulk. Also, it can OHKO Conkeldurr with an LO Psychic anyway, so Skill Swap just seems really gimmicky to me. However, if you've tested it and found it useful, please do post.
  17. Human

    Human

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    The plan behind the set was to use it with a Thundurus partner that way it gets Prankster for Tailwind and gives Thundurus the immunity to taking damage from its Life Orb, I am going to be testing it right about now, I'll edit this post to tell you how it works.
  18. evan

    evan I did my best -- I have no regrets
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    still excessively niche and gimmicky. skill swap might deserve a mention ( i know i had fun with skill swap last year) but i doubt it deserves a set of its own.
  19. cosmicexplorer

    cosmicexplorer pewpewpew
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    Talked with Human about this on IRC, checked it out, and while it's not the most reliable strategy, it can definitely work. I've added it to OO, with a note about how it's not very reliable.
  20. cosmicexplorer

    cosmicexplorer pewpewpew
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    Talked to Alaka about this on IRC, we agreed we should remove the bulky Tailwind set.
  21. Alakapimp

    Alakapimp All washed up
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    Air Slash should be mentioned somewhere, 2/2
  22. cosmicexplorer

    cosmicexplorer pewpewpew
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    Added in OO. Thanks for the check, and I'll write this up as soon as I can.
  23. cosmicexplorer

    cosmicexplorer pewpewpew
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    I've added it to OO. Thanks, and I'll write this up as soon as I can.

    EDIT: fixed Air Slash, thanks a lot Alaka. I heavily borrowed from your wording when writing it in though, just so you know.

    EDIT2: Written and ready for GP checks.
  24. Calm Pokemaster

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    [Overview]
    <p>While this flying totem pole might not initially strike fear into your heart, Sigilyph's reasonable bulk and good Speed stat, along with access to Tailwind and Magic Guard, make it an excellent Tailwind attacker. Its powerful Psychic-type STAB gives it super effective coverage against the very common Fighting-types, while its typing allows it to take any Fighting-type attack with ease. That typing also hurts it, though, since it gives Sigilyph weaknesses to many common attacks such as Rock Slide and Shadow Ball, and while Sigilyph's good bulk allows it to take a hit, its somewhat low Speed makes it susceptible to many faster attackers such as Archeops and Terrakion. Overall, Sigilyph is a great Tailwind user and abuser, and is makes a useful addition to almost any team.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Tailwind Attacker
    move 1: Psychic
    move 2: Ice Beam / Air Slash
    move 3: Tailwind
    move 4: Shadow Ball / Protect
    item: Life Orb
    ability: Magic Guard
    nature: Modest
    evs: 36 HP / 252 Def / 220 SpA

    [SET COMMENTS]
    <p>Sigilyph's access to both Tailwind and Magic Guard, along with a usable Special Attack stat, makes it an effective Tailwind attacker. Psychic is its STAB move of choice, attaining key OHKOs on every Fighting-type Pokemon and hitting Amoonguss for huge damage. Ice Beam complements its coverage adds to Sigilyph's coverage, OHKOing the genies and most of the many Pokemon weak to Ice-type attacks. Tailwind allows Sigilyph to support its team and boost its own Speed. Shadow Ball deals decent damage to most Ghost- and Psychic-types, making Sigilyph much more effective against opposing Trick Room teams. Magic Guard removes Life Orb recoil, allowing Sigilyph to hit quite hard without compromising its good bulk. The EVs and nature allow Sigilyph to always OHKO 4 HP genies with Ice Beam while maintaining great physical durability; it can even take an Archeops's Flying Gem Acrobatics and have a 67.3% chance to survive.</p>

    <p>Air Slash hits many Pokemon for more damage than Ice Beam, including Virizion, Zoroark, Scrafty, and Whimsicott, and provides better neutral coverage than Ice Beam. However, Ice Beam still hits the genies, Haxorus, Hydreigon, and Krookodile harder, and due to their high usage, it's usually the better option. Due to Sigilyph's many weaknesses, Protect can be useful, to allowing a teammate to take out a Pokemon such as Thundurus which may threaten Sigilyph. However, it does make Sigilyph far less effective against opposing Trick Room teams, so it's usually not the best choice making it an inferior option. An alternative EV spread of 28 HP / 252 SpA / 228 Spe is a viable option, allowing Sigilyph to outspeed Timid Chandelure and Adamant Krookodile outside of Tailwind, but the reduced bulk in comparison to the first spread is quite noticeable, and makes Sigilyph far more susceptible to Rock Slide than a bulkier spread.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    <p>Magic Guard removes Life Orb recoil, allowing Sigilyph to hit quite hard without compromising its good bulk. The EVs and nature allow Sigilyph to always OHKO 4 HP genies with Ice Beam while maintaining great physical durability; it can even take an Archeops's Flying Gem-boosted Acrobatics and have a 67.3% chance to survive. An alternative EV spread of 28 HP / 252 SpA / 228 Spe is also viable, allowing Sigilyph to outspeed Timid Chandelure and Adamant Krookodile outside of Tailwind, but the reduced bulk in comparison to the first spread is quite noticeable, and makes Sigilyph far more susceptible to Rock Slide than a bulkier spread. Most Pokemon that enjoy a Tailwind boost will appreciate Sigilyph as a partner. Additionally, its ability to OHKO Terrakion and other Fighting-types with its STAB Psychic makes it a good partner for Pokemon such as your own Terrakion or Scrafty, which can then proceed to attack with their common checks removed. Sigilyph's ability to OHKO Tornadus with Ice Beam and set up Tailwind is especially useful for Pokemon such as Conkeldurr or Amoonguss which Tornadus commonly checks.</p>

    <p>This set requires a good deal of support to work well. Although it has excellent physical bulk, allowing it to tank many hits, Sigilyph is often KOed by super effective special attacks such as Thundurus's Thunderbolt and Chandelure's Shadow Ball. For this reason, a Fake Out user such as Scrafty or Mienshao can help tremendously, immobilizing these checks while Sigilyph sets up Tailwind, allowing it to do good damage the next turn. A powerful Choice Scarf user such as Chandelure or Darmanitan can also be helpful, OHKOing Pokemon such as Thundurus that threaten Sigilyph, such as Thundurus, before they can attack.</p>

    [Other Options]
    <p>Due to Sigilyph's good defenses, excellent Psychic typing, and Magic Guard, it makes an ideal initiator of a Skill Swap chain. If it is able to transfer, for example, Thundurus's Prankster to Amoonguss, your opponents are in for a world of hurt. Magic Guard is also an excellent ability to Skill Swap to another Pokemon, making Sigilyph ideal for the role. However, the strategy is ruined if any Pokemon in the chain is KOed, and as such is not very reliable. Sigilyph has access to Reflect and Light Screen, and with its relatively high Speed and good defenses, it can make for a useful dual screen user. However, Sigilyph's ability to burn opponents with Psycho Shift makes Reflect generally useless, and Sigilyph is much more effective setting up Tailwind than setting up dual screens. Thunder Wave may seem useful for lowering an opponent's Speed, but Tailwind does that far more effectively, making Thunder Wave useless. Sigilyph has access to Trick Room, but with its relatively high Speed stat, it's easily outclassed by slower Trick Room users such as Musharna or Reuniclus.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]
    <p>Thundurus can do severe damage to Sigilyph with its STAB Thunderbolt, but a specially defensive EV spread allows Sigilyph to take a Thunderbolt and set up Tailwind. Many Rock Slide users can do significant damage to Sigilyph, but must watch out for the odd Psycho Shift, which will neuter their offensive capabilities, and Roost, which allows Sigilyph to take any Rock Slide with ease while recovering health. Taunt users such as Thundurus, Tornadus, and Whimicott can stop Sigilyph from using Tailwind, but must watch out for Mental Herb.</p>

    <p>Dark-types such as Scrafty and Krookodile can deal severe damage with their STAB Crunch, but must watch out for Psycho Shift, which neuters their offensive capabilities by inflicting burn. A special attacking Hydreigon doesn't care about a burn, and can deal significant damage with its STAB Dark Pulse, but it must watch out for a Life Orb-boosted Ice Beam, which will do severe damage. Ice-types such as Vanilluxe can do huge damage with their super effective STAB attacks, but Sigilyph's good defenses allow it to take most Ice Beams and set up Tailwind with a defensive set, and Roost will allow it to remove its weakness while recovering health.</p>


    Issues:

    • Be careful with what you put in Set Comments and Additional Comments. The C&C Analysis Formatting Guide should help you immensely in this regard. In short, don't write about the EV spread, nature, or alternative options (excluding move slashes) in Set Comments.
    Otherwise, good job.

    [​IMG]

    GP 1 / 2
  25. cosmicexplorer

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    Thanks a lot cp. I really appreciate the help. The changes have been made.

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