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Simple Questions & Simple Answers & General Resources (OU Edition) MK II

Discussion in 'BW OU' started by Matthew, Nov 4, 2012.

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  1. DarkestSamus

    DarkestSamus

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    Disappointing to hear about Freeze Shock, but I can live without it.

    I truly despise deciding between lowering Defense or Special Defense in general. I still feel uncertain about my Naughty Zekrom (not sure if I should've picked Lonely) but I was drawn to the fact that his Defense was higher and I didn't want to lower it, lol. Anyway, I actually have a MASSIVE amount of Pokemon lacking in Special Defense (tons of Naive) so I would lean towards Hasty, as you have been encouraging.

    Kyurem-B attracts me because of his massive Attack stat, and I would love to focus on that. Adamant with 252 Atk would create a number that I would drool looking at, and using Scarf to mitigate Speed wouldn't bother me at all. At the same time, I enjoy Mixed attackers and wouldn't mind that at all as long as it focuses more on Attack than Special.

    Ginganinja, your thread was one that I was looking at recently. I naturally assumed that you posted the builds in order of your preference, so hearing that you preferred Sub Hone Claws and Scarf surprised me a little bit because they were later on in the list. It does push me a lot more towards Adamant, though.

    Thanks a lot for your advice, guys. I am surprised and pleased at the great answers I've been getting, and any more advice is very welcome!
  2. Thirteen Rabbits

    Thirteen Rabbits

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    What is the difference between a check and a counter?
  3. alkinesthetase

    alkinesthetase <@dtc> every day with alk is a bad day
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    http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3473256

    the difference is debatable, but in general, counter is a stronger term than check. a counter can typically switch in on any of the target's moves and comfortably stay in on them, while forcing the mon out or threatening to kill it. a check can generally also force out or kill the target, but has difficulty switching in on most or all of the target's moves and will take significant damage from them.
  4. Phozon

    Phozon

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    Soul Dew on Latios/ Latias is only allowed in Ubers, correct? I've had alot of people tell me its "OU" but I'm pretty sure it's only Ubers right?
  5. Asek

    Asek ,
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    Yes it is only ubers
  6. StairFall

    StairFall

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    Do multiple different stat multipliers affect each other? Say for instance I have a pokemon with 200 attack, at +1 it would 300 attack. With a choice band it would have 300 attack also. If I had a choice band and was at +1 would I have 400 as if I was at +2 or wouldit be 300*1.5 to make 450, stacking with the choice band?
  7. Reymedy

    Reymedy The Black Sun.
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    No.
    It is 400 in your case.
  8. ClubbingSealCub

    ClubbingSealCub

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    It is multiplicative, you would have 2,25 attack
  9. Jukain

    Jukain .leaf
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    Dug up [URL="http://www.smogon.com/dp/articles/stats#conclusion]this article[/URL], the latter. You would do 200*1.5*1.5 which equals 450.

    EDIT: technically clubbingsealclub is right too
  10. SuperSei

    SuperSei

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    This may sound like a stupid question but does trick keep the boost of choice items?
  11. AfroThunderRule

    AfroThunderRule *yawn* ez
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    You mean tricking the Choice item away? Then no.
  12. Jkickit

    Jkickit

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    Guys, Cotton Guard/Giga Drain/Hyper Voice/Sucker-Drain Punch

    or

    Cotton Guard/Drain Punch/Seed Bomb/Sucker Punch

    Maractus? It's just for fun.
    I was thinking Quiet/Brave too.
  13. Admiral Bobbery

    Admiral Bobbery

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    So I've been using a Choice Specs Gengar on my Deoxys-D Hyper Offensive team as a spin blocker and he's been doing surprisingly well.

    [​IMG]

    Gengar@Choice Specs
    4 Def/252 SpA/252 Spe
    Nature: Timid

    Shadow Ball
    Focus Blast
    Giga Drain/Thunderbolt
    Hidden Power Fire

    He's actually been really effective, getting a lot of surprise KO's on my opponent's Pokémon. The only problem I can really see with using Specs Gengar would be Pursuit, but with good predictions or by taking Tyranitar/Scizor out early, you can usually avoid that. I also thought about dropping either HP Fire or Giga Drain/Thunderbolt for Trick in order to screw over the occasional Blissey or Chansey that switches in. Do you guys think that Specs Gengar has any real place in the OU metagame?
  14. Jukain

    Jukain .leaf
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    Well, I think that a Protect + LO + Shadow Ball / Focus Blast / Hidden Power Fire would serve you better, as Protect is excellent for scouting lots of mons (i.e. Genesect and Scizor) and choosing the appropriate move. It's important for Gengar to be able to switch moves. You should have plent or power on hyper offense, so I'd say no, Specs Gengar doesn't have much of a place in the metagame. HO teams have better things to do anyway between entry hazards, possible screens, setting up and sweeping, et cetera. Just stick with MYSTICgar for your HO team.
  15. Salamence97

    Salamence97

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    I hope I'm in the right place.
    Don't get me wrong, I was just reading some of the REALLY old Smogon threads while looking for some info. for one of my possible Über teams. Out of randomness, I found this one thread, which talked about something interesting - this was a pretty long time back, but in today's meta, I believe I can ask this question one more time :p

    > Is Darkrai worth a suspect test anytime soon?

    Ok, I'm really not that great at figuring out what's good and what's bad for the tier, but I just can't figure out what kind of a negative impact impact Darkrai would have on OU. With Scarf users scattered around the tier (Terrakion and Genesect being the most notable ones to threaten Darkrai) as well as common users of priority (TechniLoom) combined with average defenses mean he surely isn't going to be hard to take down. Dark Void is a big factor contributing to Darkrai's "brokenness", but I believe Spore Breloom or Sleep Powder Venusaur/Lilligant (lol) are capable of doing similar things, right?
    Four-Moveslot-Syndrome is another one of Darkrai's overlooked problems. If running Focus Blast, Darkrai looses a valuable safety net against priority/revenge killers as well as a good scouting tool, and if using Substitute, the number of things that can wall you goes up. Not to mention other problems like Focus Blast's accuracy, and the frailness of Darkrai's Substitutes (any good neutral hit breaks them).
    I'm not saying Dakrai is bad or anything (it started out as an Über for a reason), but in today's meta, I feel we can give it a chance. So my main questions are -
    > Is Darkrai worth a test?
    > If not, Why?/ What are the factors that make him broken in OU?
    Correct me if I'm wrong anywhere.
  16. Magicxgame

    Magicxgame

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    ^
    From this forum's sticky:

    But to answer your question, Darkrai was allowed in early Gen 5 OU and was then banned, so it's unlikely that it's going to have a Suspect Test. I didn't play Gen 5 when Darkrai was OU, but I'm guessing that a 125 Speed sleep inducer that could fire off Nasty Plot Dark Pulses and Focus Blasts for near perfect coverage didn't sit well with most people.

    Plus, to quickly address your listed points on other sleep inducers: Breloom is much slower, while Venusaur and Lilligant have a less accurate sleep move and are reliant on sun.

    I saw you were going back and forth between Hasty and Naive; I went back and forth between the two myself, but I'm leaning towards Hasty so it can switch in on most Waters and Electrics easier. I was concerned about priority attacks, but it doesn't seem to matter; LO Technician Breloom OHKOs Naive Kyurem-B 68.75% of the time with Mach Punch after SR, while CB Scizor's Bullet Punch OHKOs Naive or Hasty Kyurem-B after SR.

    In fact, now that I found a reasonable flawless shiny seed, I plan to RNG one myself. :p
  17. DarkestSamus

    DarkestSamus

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    Thank you for addressing my question even though its several days old, as I am still conflicted.

    I think I would be happy picking Hasty were I going for a Mixed Set. Do you happen to know why ginganinja's thread happens to specify that the "Physically based Mixed" build should have Naive while the "Specially Based Mixed" build should have Hasty? Is it because those two builds check/counter different opponents and it needs different defenses in order to switch in on them?

    There are certain things I want out of Kyurem-B. First, I'd love to have massive Attack, which makes me much more drawn to builds that fully invest into Attack EV-wise and slightly more drawn to Attack natures (Adamant, in this case). Second, I'm interested in having Fusion Bolt and Earth Power on him (again, preferred by not REQUIRED). Fusion Bolt just makes him special because its unique, while Earth Power utilizes Teravolt to break through Levitate (which just delights me) as well as Sturdy Pokemon, who are usually weak to Ground. Using these parameters and ginganinja's thread, I might be interested in...

    Physically based Mixed

    Kyurem-B @ Life Orb
    Trait: Terravolt
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
    Naive nature
    - Outrage
    - Fusion Bolt
    - Ice Beam
    - Earth Power

    This was the build I was referring to before; I wonder why this one specifies Naive, and not Naive / Hasty?

    Also...

    Choice Scarf

    Kyurem-B @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Terravolt
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    Adamant Nature
    -Outrage
    -Fusion Bolt
    -Dragon Claw
    -Earth Power

    Choice Band

    Kyurem-B @ Choice Band
    Trait: Terravolt
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    Adamant Nature
    -Outrage
    -Fusion Bolt
    -Dragon Claw
    -Earth Power

    I am also drawn to the "Sub Hone Claws" set, although it lacks pretty much ALL of my aforementioned desires, lol. More than anything else, it's unique, and I love Kyurem-B and the longer he stays on the field the happier I'll be. lol.

    Sub Hone Claws

    Kyurem-Black @ Leftovers
    Trait: Teravolt
    EVs: 56 Spd / 252 HP / 64 Def / 136 SDef
    Careful Nature
    - Substitute
    - Dragon Tail
    - Hone Claws / Earth Power / Ice Beam
    - Roost

    Sorry if my post is too long, just trying to include all of the information so peope don't have to jump threads to help me. :) Here is the thread I'm referencing, which AFAIK is the only detailed discussion thread on Kyurem-B ATM:

    http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3474383
  18. Onicon

    Onicon

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    Those sets were never consistent in the first place. May I give you my personal opinion in a more elaborate manner?

    I generally choose a Hasty one over a Naive one just because I don't want to compromise its ability to check Rainmons. Cube's defence values may be higher, but due its typing it gets mauled by some widely distributed physical moves while those it resists are mostly special.
    There is exaclty two situation where neutral defence really matter: CB-Scizor and CB-Breloom. They have a chance of 50% to OHKO a Hasty one at full health while they cannot OHKO a Naive one, assuming you can keep off Stealth Rocks from your side of the field.
    But when you run Subs, you will either not be at full health, or behind a sub in which case it becomes impossible to OHKO Cube anyway.
    All things considered: Lower your Def in general but especially when using substitutes, keep neutral Def for Outrage-spamming.

    Okay, allmost all things considered. In my opinion it makes as much sense running Kyurem at maximum speed as running full-speed Gliscor - they are in the same speed tier after all. I suggest you to keep an eye on those EV values:
    56 neutral speed: Faster than neutral Breloom and Politoed.
    148 neutral speed: Faster than positive Breloom and Politoed AND neutral Dragonite and Mamoswine. Personal favorite.
    236 neutral speed: Faster than positive Dragonite and Mamoswine. Never've seen any anyway.
    216 speed: Faster than Lucario. Choose nature depending on neutral or positive Lucario.

    As you can see there rarely is need for speed. If you are using subs, you are fine with 148 most of the time, expect when Kyurem will have that much of an impact on the metagame that Jolly Dragonites and Mamoswines start popping up, in which case we have to pull up to 236 neutral. Still, there won't be any need of being faster than Hasty 216 because for Kyurem Lucario is fastest threat it can outspeed, expect for itself of course. Mixed attacker always appreciate some spare points. Also, not having a need for max speed allows you to use HP Fire as an alternative to Fusion Bolt or Earth Power to catch Forry and Scizor offguard. Just remember to add 4 EVs when doing this.
  19. DarkestSamus

    DarkestSamus

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    I thank you once again, Oni, for the incredibly detailed information. Kyurem-B is important to me so the more info I have before catching my Kyurem the better. I think I have enough knowledge to know that I should pick Hasty instead of Naive for Kyurem-B if I want a Mixed Attacker.

    Oni, I would like to hear your opinion on Adamant Kyurem-Bs and the benefits thereof. As I said before, I would find it satisfying (if nothing else) to absolutely maximize his Attack. After that, I believe that the remaining 256 EVs could be balanced somewhere between HP and Speed (or entirely put in one or the other). What do you think?
  20. Diatom

    Diatom An enigma
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    How does torment interact with outrage?
  21. TGMD

    TGMD +Biosci: you both gave me crabs
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    According to smogon's page on torment (which can be found here): "Torment does not effect moves such as Outrage which repeat over several turns."
  22. Jkickit

    Jkickit

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    Which of these sounds best?

    Maractus
    252 HP/4 Def/252 Sp.Def
    Sassy (+Spdef , -Speed)
    -Cotton Guard
    -Toxic
    -Giga Drain
    -Drain Punch

    Maractus
    252 HP/252 Atk/4 Sp.Def
    Adamant/Brave (+Atk, -Sp.Atk/Speed)
    -Cotton Guard
    -Drain Punch
    -Needle Arm/Giga Drain
    -Sucker Punch

    Maractus
    252 HP/252 Sp.Atk/4 Sp.Def
    Quiet (+Sp.Atk, -Speed)
    -Cotton Guard
    -Hyper Voice
    -Giga Drain
    -Drain Punch
  23. superbadd

    superbadd

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    How come the ou suspect test doesn't have a new thread this time?
  24. Onicon

    Onicon

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    The reason that Kyurem-B was dropped into OU while Kyurem-W have to stay was QB's sparse physical movepool. Even when used as a physical attacker you should keep a slot for a special coverage move. More important is the selection of your moves.

    Ice Beam of course allows you to kill Breloom, Gliscor and Dragonite through Multiscale as well as a few other things that are faster than you should you choose to have Substitute. Using Life Orb, it makes it 2HKOing physical Skarmory while special Skarmory is OHKOed by Fusion Bolt after SR.
    Earth Power has the ability to 2HKO specially defensive Heatran after SR. Unfortunately it doesn't serve a purpose beyond that because Fusion Bolt 2HKOs Rotom-W comfortably. Using Life Orb, Heatran is 2HKOed by Fusion Bolt after SR.
    HP Fire is for the obvious. We are at a point where I am tempted to run Lonely and 88 EVs on SAtk (IV malus already considered) just to kill CB-Scizor in one shot after SR. With than amount of SAtk you can OHKO physical defensive Forretress after SR, too. Using LO you don't need any further investments and gives you the ability to 2HKO Ferrothorn.

    The physical moves kinda disappont me. Dragon Claw's sole purposes are 2HKOing Thick Fat Mamoswine and comfortably 2HKOing Blissey without LO because everything else is already hit hard by its coverage moves. Should you have LO, every Blissey is 2HKOed by Fusion Bolt after SR. Yes, the selling point of an physical set is obviously Fusion Bolt - it's like Stone Edge, but accurate. At least Dragon Claw does more than Earth Power and has fair neutral coverage in the case you don't like to predict:

    Physically Life Orb:
    Kyurem-B @ Life Orb
    Trait: Teravolt
    EVs: 40 HP / 248 Atk / 220 Spe
    Adamant nature
    - Fusion Bolt
    - Ice Beam
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Dragon Claw/Earth Power

    That's physically based Adamant Kyurem just for you. Should you find something unappealing feel free to slap in Roost.

    Edit: There has been a fatal mistake. 216 EVs in speed are only for QBs NOT using HP Fire. This has been corrected.

    None of them sound very appealing. Depending on the tier you are playing there are many other Pokemon who are more suited for the roles you want to fit Maractus in.
    In the depths of NU there is Amoonguss with better defensive values, a titanic HP stat, Regenerator and Spore to perform the first role.
    The other ones are better done by Cacturne, for it has the superior offensive stats and Dark STAB. Cotten Guard is completely out of place, to be honest.
    In any higher tier there is Whimsicott who does a much better job as a Cotten Guard sponge because of its higher defence and Prankster.

    Forces to choose I'm with the second one but Cacturne outclasses it in this aspect and gives you Swords Dance as a bonus.
  25. tintinwong

    tintinwong

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    Cacturne outclasses maractus on stats and have a similar stat distribution, and since maractus has not only a low speed, it also has low defenses, I only see it good as a chlorophyll or trick room user.


    Now I want to ask a question. I have seen about 3 steelixs when playing in OU, and I killed them before they could do anything. I would like to ask why the hell do people use it?

    EDIT: I would also like to ask. How is stat points calculated based on base stats? I tried to find it, but i could not find any golden ratio to it.
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