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BW OU Simulation of a Drought (GeneSun team)

Discussion in 'RMT Archive' started by Lavos Spawn, Sep 9, 2012.

  1. Lavos Spawn

    Lavos Spawn
    is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Past WCoP Winner

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    Simulation of a Drought
    the "classic" BW2 Sun team

    [​IMG]
    by Lavos Spawn

    Hello, Smogon. I know it hasn't been long since I last posted an RMT, but I feel like this team needed to be posted ASAP before more people started to steal it without giving credit to me lol. This team is the archetype of BW2 Sun, and actually was the driving force behind using Dugtrio + Genesect + Victini + Xatu on Sun teams today, a core that is seen a lot on Showdown's ladder. I call it GeneSun! I have peaked #1 with this team on Showdown several times (didn't save screenshots, but people can back me up on this), and I have logged over 400 battles with the team. It is incredibly solid, a perfect combination of Pokemon that in itself has facilitated the rising use of Shed Shell Heatran and Shed Shell Tyranitar, among other Pokemon. The team has its sporadic weaknesses, but they're very uncommon and very easy to look past. It's definitely the best team I've ever created, and I'm very eager to share it with you all. Please, enjoy.

    The Team

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
    Trait: Drought
    EVs: 248 HP / 212 SDef / 48 Spd
    Calm Nature
    IVs: 30 Def / 30 SDef / 30 Spd / 3 Atk
    - Sunny Day
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Flamethrower
    - Hidden Power [Rock]


    The Son of Sun, the bringer of light. Ninetales, as glorious as it's made out to be, has one purpose on my team: set up Sun. That's literally it. Anything else it does is a bonus. Out of all the OU Pokemon Game Freak could have given Sun to, I'm very sad their sights were set on Ninetales. It's so frail, has such a limited movepool, and is an overall disappointment. I try to put it to good use with a Specially Defensive set, which lets it switch in on the all-too-common Politoed easily.

    Set Explanation
    • Sunny Day: Deters other weather starters from switching in on me. If they do, I make their switch-in pointless with this move.

    • Will-O-Wisp: Annoys stuff. Especially good to hit opposing weather starters, mostly Tyranitar and Hippowdon so they can't OHKO me.

    • Flamethrower: Sure, why not? Generic STAB, lets me hit stuff if I need to. Sun + STAB can actually do a decent chunk, and helps with odd things like breaking Hydreigon's Substitute.

    • Hidden Power [Rock]: This slot used to be Pain Split, then Roar, but I've finally settled on HP Rock for two reasons. First, if I miss Dugtrio's Stone Edge on a Volcarona, I lose. That's it. Second, with this I can pop Heatran's Balloon so Dugtrio can beat it easier. Sometimes I wish I still had Roar, but this does pretty well.

    EV/IV/Nature Explanation
    • EVs are meant to maximize my specially defensive potential while also allowing me to speed creep stuff like Jirachi, Celebi, and Gliscor. Nothing special here.

    • IVs are for Hidden Power Rock, and I run 3 Atk so that I still get maximum power from HP Rock, and also so that in the unlikely scenario that I'm confused, I take minimum damage from it.

    • Calm lowers Attack, which I don't need, and raises SDef, which I desperately need. Makes sense.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
    Trait: Arena Trap
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 Def
    Jolly Nature
    IVs: 21 HP
    - Stealth Rock
    - Earthquake
    - Reversal
    - Stone Edge

    Dugtrio is part one of my offensive core, and he's absolutely fantastic at the job he's meant to do. He beats up on weather starters and/or Heatran, sets rocks, and dies. That's all. With Base Speed of 120 and decent coverage, plus a fantastic ability in Arena Trap, Dugtrio fits perfectly onto my team.

    Set Explanation
    • Stealth Rock: Well, the rest of my team can't learn it, so it makes sense it would be here. Sometimes I don't get the chance to set them up, because Dugtrio has so much it needs to do for the team, but Xatu can sometimes Magic Bounce me some, so it's ok.

    • Earthquake: OHKOs any Heatran you care to bring, and 2HKOs most Tyranitar. Generic STAB with a purpose.

    • Reversal: Ah, the magic of Focus Sash + Reversal. At 1 HP, I OHKO Tyranitar, and deal a ton of damage to a lot of other stuff, too. It's nice to have, and a real boon in some situations.

    • Stone Edge: My team's Volcarona safeguard. I switch in on Quiver Dance and pray that it hits. Also prevents me from being setup fodder for Dragonite.

    EV/IV/Nature Explanation
    • EVs are standard. Maximize Attack and Speed. No reason to use anything else.

    • 21 HP IVs on Dugtrio gives me 201 HP, enough to live two Seismic Tosses from Chansey/Blissey with 1 HP left, so I can deal out hefty damage with Reversal. Credit to Tobes McGobes for this idea, it works well.

    • Jolly to outspeed almost everything that's unboosted.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
    Trait: Download
    EVs: 92 Atk / 252 SAtk / 164 Spd
    Hasty Nature
    - U-turn
    - Flamethrower
    - Ice Beam
    - Thunderbolt


    The MVP of the team, the best addition to BW2 for Sun teams, and part two of my four-part offensive core. This thing is an incredibly effective revenge killer and offensive pivot. With great base stats, outstanding coverage, Download, and access to U-turn, I couldn't ask any more of this thing (though higher base Speed would be nice).

    Set Explanation
    • U-turn: STAB and scouting; basically the bread and butter of any Scarf Genesect. With a Download boost, this actually has potential to do some serious damage. +1 kills off Latios and does work on Tyranitar, two big threats to my team.

    • Flamethrower: The first move of three-type coverage. Sun + Download can pack quite a punch. Hits Steels and other stuff I need dead.

    • Ice Beam: Second of the coverage attacks, this lets me revenge-kill +1 Dragonite, who is a royal pain in the ass for my team. Again, it's great coverage, and a timely freeze can spell the end for opponents sometimes.

    • Thunderbolt: For Water-types and other such things. Just like the other two coverage moves, it gives Genesect rich movepool diversity and allows it to scare off Politoed, among other things.

    EV/IV/Nature Explanation
    • Credit to Funkasaurus for the spread, I still outspeed +1 Dragonite and get some extra Attack power while I'm at it.

    • I use Hasty > Naive because sometimes this thing has to tank a Specs Draco Meteor from Latios, and if I run Naive it's a guaranteed 2HKO. Besides, this thing doesn't often take physical hits.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
    Trait: Victory Star
    EVs: 252 Spd / 4 Def / 252 Atk
    Adamant Nature
    - V-create
    - U-turn
    - Fusion Bolt
    - Brick Break

    The third part of my offensive core, and a mighty beast under the Sun. This thing does not play any games. Base 100 stats all around and a decent movepool plus access to the strongest non-suicidal move in the game makes it quite the team player. Choice Band over Choice Scarf, because Genesect is my revenge killer, and this thing packs noticeably more of a punch with CB.

    Set Explanation
    • V-create: Just straight-up smash stuff. With a base power of 180, STAB, and a Sun boost, coming off a Choice Band, the only outcome is utter devastation. Most of the time I'm just spamming this thing.

    • U-turn: Excellent partnership with V-create. Forces the opponent to choose - do they leave in their Pokemon to get destroyed by V-create, or send in their Heatran so I can U-turn to Dugtrio? Creates massive offensive pressure.

    • Fusion Bolt: Coverage for when I need it most. OHKOs Scarf Politoed, does more than 60% to defensive Toed, both common switch-ins to an expected V-create.

    • Brick Break: Often filler, but can OHKO Tyranitar if it lacks a Chople Berry and 2HKO Shed Shell Heatran if it's trolling my Dugtrio.

    EV/IV/Nature Explanation
    • Again, very standard EVs. Maximize Attack, maximize Speed.

    • I use an Adamant Nature to ensure an OHKO after rocks on 252 HP Latias, who can give my team some trouble if I let it set up too much. Adamant also lets me get a guaranteed kill on Dragonite after rocks, which my team really needs if Genesect is somehow incapacitated.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
    Trait: Chlorophyll
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 72 HP / 4 Def / 180 Spd
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 30 Spd / 2 Atk / 30 Def
    - Growth
    - Giga Drain
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Sludge Bomb


    Venusaur is a huge threat under Sun, and BW2 didn't help that any. With new access to Chlorophyll + Giga Drain, it can now abuse the extra power of Life Orb without having to worry about slowly dying to recoil damage. At +2, this beast can tear through basically any team with ease.

    Set Explanation
    • Growth: In Sun, essentially functions as Nasty Plot, immediately doubling Venusaur's Special Attack and turning it into a deadly sweeper. Sometimes boosting isn't necessary, but it's nice to have the move, just in case.

    • Giga Drain: Venusaur's new toy. Only 5 base power less than Energy Ball, with the added benefit of recovering half the damage dealt. Believe it or not, this allows Venusaur to even beat Chansey/Blissey one-on-one.

    • Hidden Power [Fire]: Beats Steel-types that annoy me otherwise. The list includes SDef Jirachi, Scizor, Ferrothorn, Skarmory...yeah. Generic coverage move, and with the Sun boost it can be very threatening.

    • Sludge Bomb: My other STAB attack, and also my most powerful one. At +2, capable of taking out basically anything that Giga Drain/HP Fire can't, including Dragonite, Latios, and Salamence, all big threats to the team.

    EV/IV/Nature Explanation
    • EVs, first and foremost, maximize Special Attack. Enough Speed is put into the spread to outspeed Scarf Latios/Latias, and the rest of the EVs are dumped into HP and Defense, to help me live powerful priority attacks such as CB Scizor Bullet Punch and LO Mamoswine Ice Shard, which Venusaur struggles with. Credit to BKC for making me a more efficient EV spread!

    • IVs are standard for Hidden Power [Fire], and of course I lowered the Attack IV so I take less confusion damage in case that ever happened.

    • I run Timid Nature to outpace common Scarfers like Terrakion and Latios, which could otherwise stop a sweep cold. Modest is nice power, but it doesn't make sense to me. The point of Chlorophyll is to outspeed stuff, so that's just what I'm going to do.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
    Trait: Magic Bounce
    EVs: 56 Spd / 248 HP / 204 Def
    Bold Nature
    - U-turn
    - Toxic
    - Roost
    - Heat Wave


    The final Pokemon to complete my U-turning offensive core. I needed something to keep hazards off the field, but to an extremely offensive player such as myself, Rapid Spin always seems a little underwhelming. Besides, there's the potential of being spinblocked, which would basically ruin my team. Enter Magic Bounce, the best ability Generation V has to offer. I can reflect all the hazards aimed at my team, and it's wonderful, especially considering the most common SR setter as of right now is Ferrothorn, who my Xatu walks all over. This thing also walls Deoxys-D teams to hell and back, which is nice considering they're still rather prevalent.

    Set Explanation
    • U-turn: Tyranitar comes in, I turn out. Works every time. Really, though, U-turn is a great momentum-generating move, and since stuff likes to switch in on Xatu that happens to be easy bait for my Dugtrio, it's the perfect fit on this set.

    • Toxic: I used to have Psychic in this slot, but it wasn't doing much, so I switched over to this. Toxic lets me force out Chansey/Blissey, annoy Politoed /Hippowdon/Tyranitar, and pull off Roost-stalling on a lot of slower, defensive Pokemon that can't Toxic me back due to Magic Bounce.

    • Roost: Obvious recovery is obvious. Combined with Rocky Helmet, I can stall out a lot of physical threats.

    • Heat Wave: Ah, BW2, you're so good to me. Heat Wave + Sun makes for good fun against the plethora of Steel-types that Xatu loves to switch into, including but not limited to Ferrothorn and Forretress. Not to mention, things like Genesect and Scizor always seem to think it's safe to switch into Xatu. One Heat Wave and they're gone for good.

    EV/IV/Nature Explanation
    • EVs let me outspeed Adamant Breloom, and the rest are poured into HP and Defense so I can stall out physical threats. I can even live Tyranitar's Crunch easily.

    • Bold Nature doesn't make me sacrifice any important stat to get a nice Defense boost. U-turn may be slightly weakened, but I don't use it for its power, so that's irrelevant.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Well, that's about it. As I stated earlier, this team has reached #1 on the ladder several times, both by myself and user Cloud9, some guy I met on Showdown who used my team and did very well with it. I understand it has its flaws: Latios, for one, is a pain in the ass, and Hippowdon sand offense can be frustrating. Overall, though, it's a solid team, and I feel confident that even with it being released to the public, it'll still perform well for me in future battles. Rate, hate, steal, whatever. Thanks for reading.

    Importable (open)
    Ninetales @ Leftovers
    Trait: Drought
    EVs: 248 HP / 216 SDef / 44 Spd
    Calm Nature
    IVs: 30 Def / 30 SDef / 30 Spd / 3 Atk
    - Sunny Day
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Hidden Power [Rock]
    - Flamethrower

    Dugtrio @ Focus Sash
    Trait: Arena Trap
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 Def
    Jolly Nature
    IVs: 21 HP
    - Stealth Rock
    - Earthquake
    - Reversal
    - Stone Edge

    Genesect @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Download
    EVs: 92 Atk / 252 SAtk / 164 Spd
    Hasty Nature
    - U-turn
    - Flamethrower
    - Ice Beam
    - Thunderbolt

    Victini @ Choice Band
    Trait: Victory Star
    EVs: 252 Spd / 4 Def / 252 Atk
    Adamant Nature
    - V-create
    - U-turn
    - Fusion Bolt
    - Brick Break

    Venusaur @ Life Orb
    Trait: Chlorophyll
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 72 HP / 4 Def / 180 Spd
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 30 Spd / 2 Atk / 30 Def
    - Growth
    - Giga Drain
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Sludge Bomb

    Xatu @ Rocky Helmet
    Trait: Magic Bounce
    EVs: 56 Spd / 248 HP / 204 Def
    Bold Nature
    - U-turn
    - Toxic
    - Roost
    - Heat Wave
  2. PK Gaming

    PK Gaming Pursuing My True Self
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    So this team is basically the new standard for sun teams, and i'm starting to see more of them on the ladder. It's basically the best sun team in BW2 as of now, and I think I can say that it utilizes the Genesect + Dugtrio combo to its maximum potential. The massive amount of U-turn users + Dugtrio on this team is a serious roadblock for sand and rain teams if played properly. Xatu pretty much guarantees that rocks aren't going up... ever. (You lead with Genesect, so Tyranitar doesn't really get a chance to SR without taking a huge chunk of damage). There is no sun team as effective at keeping sun as this team.

    5 stars, can't suggest much without artificially worsening your team lol.
  3. Nysyr

    Nysyr

    Joined:
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    Messages:
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    Few things, T-Wave over Toxic on Xatu is generally better.

    For Venu the best EV spread would be..

    EVs: 212 Spd / 252 SAtk / 32 HP / 12 SDef
    Timid Nature
    This hits 272 so you can outspeed random Scarfmie. You can go more if you want, but i usually chuck the last 12 into SpDef for more bulk. Also hits a xx9 HP number for minimum LO damage.

    HP rock is quite uselss on Ninetales, I'd recommend Pain Split or Roar in its place.
    Your EVs on tales are also bad as you miss the lefties number, and an extra SpD stat since you hit xx9.
    Use this.

    EVs: 44 Spd / 252 SDef / 200 HP / 12 Def
    Calm Nature
  4. Bossness

    Bossness

    Joined:
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    359 Atk vs 236 Def & 341 HP (90 Base Power): 258 - 304 (75.66% - 89.15%) Kyurem's life orb Earth Power vs Victini.
    359 Atk vs 236 Def & 341 HP (140 Base Power): 297 - 351 (87.10% - 102.93%)
    Kyurem's life orb Draco Meteor vs Victini.
    How does your team handle Kyurem? I have beaten this sun team with Kyurem. Its not weak to ice and can also roost on Genesect's +1 U-Turn(unlike Hydriegon). Use Jolly nature on Victini maybe? This way it will always outspeed Kyurem. ofc i know Dugtrio can revenge with reversal(stone edge doesnt do much and can be potentially pp stalled) but that way Dugtrio wont be able to do its job for the rest of the match. Then again, Kyurem is rarely used. I really dont know what to suggest without, as PK Gaming has said, worsening this 5 star team. Luvdisc'd!

    EDIT: 259 Atk vs 216 Def & 399 HP (200 Base Power): 344 - 406 (86.22% - 101.75%) Dugtrio's reversal vs Kyurem. Not a guaranteed KO even after one round of life orb recoil. What a beast!
  5. Lavos Spawn

    Lavos Spawn
    is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Past WCoP Winner

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    Thanks a ton, man. I really appreciate the compliments, and, well, you're spot-on with the U-turn thing. This team puts tremendous pressure on the opponent and sets up Venusaur sweeps like it's nothing. I'm glad you see the appeal of GeneSun!

    First, no, Toxic > Thunder Wave on Xatu. I explain why I use Toxic on Xatu in the set explanation. If you still want to dispute it, back it up with some reasoning. Next, my EV spread on Venusaur is also for a reason, so again, back up your suggestions with some logic. I don't think Scarf Starmie is a big metagame threat. Hidden Power [Rock] is not useless on Ninetales, it pops Heatran's Balloon and guards against Volcarona. I have tested both Roar and Pain Split, and they're both inferior for this particular team. Did you even read the actual RMT, or just skim the sets? :/

    Hey, thanks for bringing up Earth Power Kyurem, because it actually is kind of annoying. I usually bring in Genesect, U-turn out to Dugtrio, and Reversal it for the kill, but you're right that it limits the life of my Dugtrio. The thing is, Kyurem is generally on either Hail or weatherless teams, so I don't even need Dugtrio for either of those unless they're carrying Heatran as well. Thanks for the compliment and the Luvdisc, I appreciate it!
  6. Mizuhime

    Mizuhime The creative adult is the child who has survived
    is a Tutoris a member of the Site Staffis a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Forum Moderatoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus
    Doubles Queen

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    Messages:
    1,181
    This is a great team larvos and I will try to find something wrong with (not bloody likely) and have only 1 comment as of now, I hate you for making it, every other person on the ladder has this team and it's very annoying play against. Very very good team larvos!
    TRC and Jirachee like this.
  7. Nysyr

    Nysyr

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2011
    Messages:
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    Lav, my post comes from experience.

    Staying in to toxic things can get your Xatu killed, and very baitable, so T-Wave is much better for stopping setup sweepers. T-Waving a Dnite setting up is much safer than switching genesect in directly as you risk being nailed by a fire punch. It also lets you have some form check to a Salamence, because damn if those things don't hurt your team.

    Scarfmie may be uncommon, but there is no reason not to be ready for it.

    Popping balloon with ninetales sounds all well and good, until you realise you just played against it wrong as popping its balloon just lets it set up rocks. Energy Ball is still a better choice over HP rock, because you can at least hit water types. Hitting Volc sounds cool, till you do the calcs against +1 rona and see that Fireblast hits only 10BP lower, and still hits for crap.

    The EVs I listed are just more refined.
  8. bubbly

    bubbly

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2009
    Messages:
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    Most irritating team ever lol. I haven't had too many problems with it but that's because ever since it started popping up I've been using RestTalk Shed Shell Tran :) Anyway, the only real problem with it is that Dragons which don't lose to Genesect (think Kyurem, SubRoost DNite, etc) can definitely be problematic. Scarf Terrakion is as always an issue too if Dugtrio's Sash is broken. Finally, Defensive Politoed isn't that easy for you to remove, but I get that you can normally work past it by threatening V-Create to force it in and out until it's in Dugtrio's 2HKO range.

    Only other thing, I really do think Thunder Wave > Toxic on Xatu. Yes, I read your justification for it, but honestly on a team as offensive as this, other weather inducers don't really care (with the exception of Hippowdon, but Hippo is never going to stay in against Xatu anyway) about being poisoned. Nothing on your team bar Xatu can stall for Toxic damage.
  9. Lavos Spawn

    Lavos Spawn
    is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Past WCoP Winner

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    Lol...thanks?

    I've been around the block a few times too, bro. My posts also come from experience.

    On the Dragonite example, first, why the hell would I stay in with Xatu on a Dragonite? I let it set up a Dragon Dance as I U-turn, then I send in Genesect and kill it with Ice Beam. It has no chance to "nail me with Fire Punch", because Xatu is slower than Dragonite, so it'll just be nailing Xatu for about 30% and some Rocky Helmet recoil damage lol.

    When I refer to popping Heatran's Balloon, I am referring to Heatran switch-ins, not staying in just to pop the Balloon. How bad do you think I am? This team didn't get #1 by itself.

    Jimbon's Shed Shell Heatran was made to beat this team, actually. Funny that you're using it. It's a good set, though. I agree, Dragons that Genesect can't singlehandedly beat are annoying, but I can generally play around them (I know that's a bad response lol). Scarf Terrakion is annoying, but once it kills something I can revenge it with Dugtrio, who I make a point of keeping healthy when I see Terrakion. Defensive Politoed has never been an issue, really...I can land a Will-O-Wisp and stall it down to where Dugtrio can 2HKO it. You'd be surprised how many Hippowdon stay in on Xatu, actually. Especially if they're packing Ice Fang. But seriously, I need Toxic, otherwise Chansey can PP stall my Xatu and then annoy everything else for the rest of the game. Toxic is also better against Tyranitar and Politoed, both of which tend to switch into Xatu. I'm open to Thunder Wave, though, if you can find multiple scenarios in which it benefits my team more than Toxic.
  10. Funkasaurus

    Funkasaurus i know what is next, but you won't believe me
    is a Tutoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor Alumnus

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    Hello user Lavos Spawn,

    I can definitely attest to the effectiveness of Genesect on Sun teams as I use one on my own Sun team. Lures Heatran with ease for Dugtrio to trap. Anyways, there isn't much to change about this team. The only thing I could think of is a modified EV spread on Genesect (92 Atk | 252 Sp Atk | 164 Speed). Due to Genesect's unique base speed stat, the only thing you would outpace with max speed and Choice Scarf is an opposing Scarf Genesect, but even that is a speed tie, usually. Otherwise, good team and congrats on its success.
  11. Nysyr

    Nysyr

    Joined:
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    I don't see why you are reeling from someone telling you a few changes. I hope you didn't post this to just claim you were the first one to use it...

    Anyhow.

    I've been using a team with the exact same pokes since Genesect came out.

    There are also more bulky dnites kicking around on the ladder lately, that still use DD. These ones are slower and are usually aiming to get +2 or +3, but they are actually much harder to deal with.

    Popping the balloon, great. Energy Ball still does that, and hits waters.

    If you don't want feedback on the team, why did you post it?

    Edit: Now you are just being rude.
  12. asterat

    asterat

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    Cool team, standard and not much to say here. Landorus and Terrakion are troublesome, the latter more if it's scarfed. I know venusaur is timid but still.

    One way to get volcarona hard is to run Substitute/Pain Split/Flamethrower/toxic on ninetales. This can hit volcarona with toxic, wear down heatran if necessary, and still stall out other weather starters with toxic and substitute, as well as having pain split for recovery. Chestorest volcarona still beats you but it is really uncommon.
  13. HolyAvatar

    HolyAvatar

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    118
    I'm really worried about Magma Storm on heatran who'll nail dugtrio on the switch and proceed to walk all over your team. There has already been talk about shed shell tran.
    4 members are walled and it can some in on V-Create.
    I would have suggested mixed venusaur with EQ instead of sludge bomb but then things like thundurus-t become much more of a nuisance.

    It's a team with so much synergy that I don't know what to change without greatly hindering it.
  14. Lavos Spawn

    Lavos Spawn
    is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Past WCoP Winner

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    Thanks for the suggestions, Funk! I'll try your EV spread, idk why I'm running this one.

    Who are you?

    Thanks for the compliment. Remember, this team wasn't standard when I first made it...I like my Sunny Day Ninetales, thanks, but I'll try out your set. ChestoRest Volc doesn't beat me if Stone Edge hits with Dugtrio.

    I don't ever switch Dugtrio straight into Heatran in case they have Flame Charge or Magma Storm. Shed Shell Heatran is annoying, I try to catch it with Brick Break in that scenario.
  15. The Great Gastly

    The Great Gastly

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    Awesome team, you presented this way better than my lame old rmt. :)

    One thing you could try if you really hate solely relying on Duggy for Heatran and Volcarona, is try a Sawsbuck over Venusaur? You gain weakness to Mach Punch and lose the ability to absorb Toxic spikes as well as significant bulk, but since Xatu should be deflecting hazards anyway the former shouldn't be a problem. It can run Nature Power/Jump Kick to kill Heatrans and other troublesome things as well as a STAB Double Edge/Return to leave a nasty blow on Volcarona too. Just a suggestion, but luvdisc'd!
  16. ssbbm

    ssbbm

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    How about running Reflect / Light Screen on your Xatu over Heat Wave? This applies more now because more people now about Heat Wave Xatu (and why would you leave Forry / Ferro in on Xatu anyway?), and it lets your Venusaur set up easier.

    Also, running Explosion on Genesect over Thunderbolt allows you to OHKO Bulky Volcarona, along with beating Offensive Volcarona if they double switch it in.

    Everything else is pretty flawless, and my comments were just nitpicks anyway. Good team!
  17. Gimmick

    Gimmick Electric potential

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    Hello thurr,

    This is definitely the most usual sun team I've seen lately (especially the U-turning core of Xatu/Genesect in acquaintance with Dugtrio), and for a good reason. It seems like absolute torture to deal with (because it's good of course, lol). I'm not going to bother reading through every post to make sure it hasn't been said before, but I'd like to make a minute recommendation. Although Scarf Haxorus is uncommon, it isn't non-existant. Genesect has a niche of slightly outspeeding Haxorus, which makes up for its trollish 99 base speed. I can see said Scarf Haxorus being a little bit of a problem to this team since it outspeeds everything except Venusaur (who can't OHKO at max HP). I feel like having 240 Spe EVs would benefit you more than having that extra attack power as it can outspeed and OHKO a Haxorus locked into Outrage or threaten those out locked into something else. Of course, it'd also be a decent idea just to put 252 in Spe so it's able to speed tie with other Genesect if it ever comes down to it, but it's generally a bad idea to risk something so important (obviously).

    Also, Victory Star only works in Double/Triple battles lul. So Heat Wave does have 90 acc.

    Oh and one more thing, I'd go 0 Def and 0 Sp. Def IVs on Dugtrio with a Hasty nature to ensure even a Stone Edge from an uninvested Tyranitar aimed at Ninetales brings you down to your sash where Reversal has maximum power. They're really small nitpicks that don't mean much, but they may be useful some time :]

    Luvdisc'd! [​IMG]
  18. Joeyboy

    Joeyboy Check out my Youtube channel! JoeyboyGames!
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    This team is hands down my favorite BW2 team. Seriously, its so easy to win with it :)

    I peaked at #4 with it myself, during which I ran Psychic over Toxic, and Leftovers over Rocky Helmet on Xatu and the same Genesect spread Funk posted. On Ninetales I ran Flamethrower/Roar/Pain Split/Will-o-Wisp and Rock Slide over SE on Dugtrio cause missing against Volcarona sucks. I even ended up using Scarf on Victini, and found it super effective ;) Course those are all merely personal changes.

    tl;dr This team is amazing, and if it doesn't get put in the Archive I will literally throw the biggest hissy fit ever in #ratemyteam.
  19. Jimbon

    Jimbon FAKE TRAIN
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    Awesome team Lavos, you know a team is amazing when people like myself have to start running Shed Shell Heatran. Only thing I could suggest that hasn't already been said is possibly Choice Scarf Victini > Choice Band Victini. It eases up your reliance on Genesect / Venusaur to revenge Latios, while Victini still hits stupidly hard in Sun. I'm not sure on what is OHKO'd / 2HKO'd by Choice Band sets which isn't by Scarf sets, but 2 scarfers alongside Venusaur helps you greatly with Latios and other Dragons. But yeah, this is a fantastic team which pretty much defines BW2 Sun thus far, very little problems, good job! Luvdisc'd!
  20. Superpowerdude

    Superpowerdude "The Phone-Post King"
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    hey man awesome team! It is unfortunate for you that you had issues with people copying this team after you posted alot of these pokes in the ou cores thread. This honestly is my favourite sun team of bw2 and is probally the most efective to. It is good to see a sun team not using that "Weathertrapper Heatran" good job i already luvdisc'd.
  21. christos21

    christos21

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    Hello man,this is probably the best sun team I've seen and used (:P) so far.I can't see any major weaknesses but I'd like to ask you how you deal with some pokemon.

    Terrakion: I think this is a threat that's not really well covered since you have no resistances to the rock type.Dugtrio can take care of it but it dies while trying to kill TTar(which is a common sight) you may have some trouble beating it.Venusaur can always revenge but can't really switch in,especially in a Banded Set.

    Reuniclus:This may have fallen in usage but a Trick Room Set with Psychic,Shadow ball and HP Fire can be really annoying to face in case it sets up TR.It won't be easy for it to set up TR but if it does you're gonna be in serious trouble and you'll need the best prediction possible to beat it since it can OHKO or 2HKO almost everything on your team.

    TTar + Hippowdon Sand Teams: These teams are not really common and I'm sure you have a way to deal with them because they're a bit more difficult to face,regarding the weather war.

    Anyway,all the above threats(apart from Terrakion) are of low usage nowadays and even if you can't deal with them it's normal.I mean,there is no team without weaknesses and 1-2 severe threats always exist for every team.You got a luvdisc from me ;)
  22. DarkBlazeR

    DarkBlazeR

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    Seriously amazing team. It's not perfect, but it's as damn well close as teams are ever going to get in this metagame. You may want to consider running mixed Venusaur with Earthquake though, as the vast majority of Heatrans are running Shed Shell these days, which is most likely down to this team's success!
  23. Bryce

    Bryce Lun

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    Like everyone said this is an absolutely solid team.I lost terribly against this team used by some peoples on the ladder a few times.But then when facing and beating this team with two of my HO teams I noticed a big threat to this otherwise almost perfect team.Speed boosters can sometimes sweep through your entire team.Particularly Sheer Force Landorus with Rock Polish.Double Dance terrakion can be problem as well but they are rare and you can play around them if you can anticipate their sets.

    Landorus can set up on (1)Dugtrio, (2)Ninetails when paired with TTar/Hippo/politoed,(3)Genesect locked to Tbolt,Forcing out(4)Victini locked into Fusion Bolt/Brick Break.(the numbers represent from most common scenario to least common scenario).It can then OHKO/2HKO every member of your team with a combination of Earth Power+HP Ice+Psychic.(Only Epower+HP Ice if Rocks are up).

    Terrkion can set up by forcing switches and in a similar scenario to (2) of Landorus.With Rock Polish and Life Orb it can outspeed and OHKO everything on your team bar Venusaur ..

    So in my opinion SF RP Landorus is the biggest threat to this team ,although it can be sometimes stopped without rocks up but then some SR layers such as ttar,Mamoswine etc can eliminate Xatu and TTar can tank a hit from Duggy and proceed to lay rocks.I don't know about Mamo though since i used Icicle Crash on my Sash mamoswine for more power which is seldom used.

    For this reason i am thinking of suggesting Sp Def Forretress instead of Xatu with Gyro Ball,HP Ice,Volt switch and Rapid Spin but that way I might open up more holes and Hamper your Offensive core.yeah sorry for only pointing out threats and being unable to provide a suitable suggestion.Anyway Luvdisced.
  24. Cloud9.

    Cloud9.

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    Congratulations on such a successful sun team man :]

    Yeah, when i was using the team some other major threats i found where special landorus (especially rockpolish variants) and scarf terrakion could also be a nuisance as venusaur under sun is the only thing that outspeeds. When a sand team with the combination of these two and Heatran + Latios (not common to see at least three of these w/sand) it is very hard to play around, but thanks to the constant U-turn momentum it can be done. I don't think anything should be changed, however, each team has certain threats they just need to be played around.

    Solid team, good job man!
  25. Meridian

    Meridian

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    Hi dude, first think i want to say is that you made a really nice team man, i've been using Xatu + Dug a while ago and i can easily tell how good it is, espacially in your team, the team building in itself is fantastic in my opinion.

    However, i faced this team some times (Never you playing though.), and never lost to it. Witch makes me think you are a bit weak to rain dude.

    First think i am going to talk about is Specs Politoed, you most likely know that your Ninetales clearly can't handle it (Hydro Pump does a ton even in the sun, 54-64%, and you most likely don't want this to happen.), Venusaur, however, can take Hydro Pump decently, but won't appreciate an Ice Beam. You can play around this pokémon i think, but still, it will cause you some troubles i think.

    Another water pokemon that could be annoying is All-Out attacker LO/Specs Keldeo (Icy Wind/HP Ghost/Secret Sword/Hydro Pump) it's not too common but with its 4 attacks hitting all of your pokémons really hard, i can see him being annoying.

    Second thing is Tornadus/Tornadus-T, well, i can see this guy being a problem, but only because he has been one every time i used it against this team. Now again, it wasn't you playing... But still, i'm not quite sure how you handle it, i personnaly use Specs Torna-T, and you have no resistances to Hurricane, eventhough it's 70% Accurate under the sun, you just have nothing to take it.

    Another thing that i noticed is that i can see a rise of Rain + Dugtrio, witch is clearly a problem for your team. Or at least in my opinion. I personnaly use Thundurus-T+Genesect+Torna-T+Dugtrio, and this is too mutch pressure for this team and this is the reason why i never lost to it.

    Also, i noticed that Mamoswine can be a problem for the team, not only EQ/Ice Shard hits all of your pokémons, but, it is probably the only pokemon that can set up rocks easily against your team, remember Thick Fat gives him a pseudo resistance to Fire so you won't be able to take him out with the majority of your pokémons. And you obviously don't want to switch Xatu on Mamoswine, except if you want to predict SR, then Predict the Ice move and switch to Victini, witch is the best way to deal with it, but it's really risky.

    And last but not least, as someone said previously, Terrakion is going to be a pain to handle if you waste Dugtrio against a Ttar.

    I eventually have some suggestions for you man, this is my first rate but i'll try to make it good :

    --> I want to suggest Shed Shell/Air Balloon on Ninetales, to keep you safe from Dugtrio, and allow you to deal pretty nicely with VoltTurn + Duggy rain teams.

    --> Next, i'd try to use Synthesis on Venusaur, maybe over Growth to handle SpecsToed/Keldeo better because i really don't think Venusaur is the pokemon you want to sweep with considering the team looks like it has been built to get a Victini sweep.

    --> Another thing i would try on Venusaur is HP Ice, to hit Tornadus-T really hard when he thinks he can come safely. Plus, it helps you getting rid of Dnite, Mence and these other pesky dragons without having to get +2.

    --> You also may want to consider Flash Canon on Genesect so you can just lead with it if you see a weatherless team with Mamoswine, considering Flash Canon is a one hit KO on Mamoswine. It also helps you killing Terrakion.

    That's all i can think of at the moment. GG again for the new best sun team.

    Sorry for my poor english btw, this is not my native language and i didn't use any kind of translator D:

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