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Discussion in 'BW Other Teams' started by shrang, Dec 15, 2012.

  1. shrang

    shrang Draw me... like one of your human girls
    is a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Battle Server Moderatoris a Tiering Contributor Alumnus

    Jul 24, 2009


    Okay, this is my fourth Ubers RMT that I've tried to write in recent times. All the others I have failed to become actual products, and I'm a bit disheartened by that fact, but I'm determined to get this one out. It showcases two interesting sets that I've been playing around with around with. This team is a lot more stall-oriented than the teams I generally make, although it still has a couple of offensive threats around the place. As you can probably tell, the theme of this team comes from the new James Bond movie, Skyfall. Yeah, it's pretty cheesy, but fuck that. So, instead of rambling on about random stuff, let's just get this out of the way so I can start writing the mountain of Ubers analyses that I've burdened myself to do!

    Team at a glance:

    "Though much is taken, much abides; and though
    We are not now that strength which in old days
    Moved earth and heaven; that which we are, we are;
    One equal temper of heroic hearts,
    Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
    To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.

    Kyogre @ Chesto Berry ***M***
    Ability: Drizzle
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
    Nature: Timid
    - Calm Mind
    - Scald
    - Ice Beam
    - Rest

    Kyogre is so amazing and can do so many things. I don't even remember why I put Kyogre on this team, but it does a good job nonetheless. Defensively and offensively, Kyogre is great. I originally had Thunder Wave + 3 attacks because that was pretty much the set these days, but then I saw that a lot of people aren't using Calm Mind Latias, so I was like "why the fuck not" and put on Calm Mind Kyogre for the awesomesauce. Yes, I know it's probably better to run max Defense for ChestoRest Kyogre, but since so many Groudons are running Jolly max Speed these days, I may as well Speed creep to max and kill those stupid things with Kyogre before they try anything anyway (so long as I win the speed-tie, which is... never). I used ChestoRest Kyogre because I do like to keep Kyogre healthy if I need to, and could potentially sweep if all the opponent has are stuff like Scarf Kyurem-W left. Even if Kyogre uses up its Chesto Berry, it's not TOO big a hassle, since I have Meloetta around to wake it up if needs to as well.

    As for moves, Calm Mind and Rest are obviously important since this is ChestoRest Kyogre. Scald is enough to KO Groudon in the rain, while having that trolly burn chance (not that I ever get it, mind you). I was really considering whether I should use Thunder or Ice Beam in that 3rd slot. It basically boiled down to "which is a bigger threat, Kyogre or Rayquaza"? In the end, I decided Rayquaza because I actually have no completely solid way to check it, especially when I decided to run Adamant nature on Scarf Kyurem-B. Kyogre, on the other hand, I could sort of keep down with Kyurem-B and Giratina-O since they can both hit it hard.

    Kyogre is named M (the Judi Dench version) since she's the one calling the shots around the place. You play according to Kyogre's rules, and that's pretty what Ubers is.

    "James Bond: [about getting shot] In your defense, a moving target is harder to hit.
    Eve: Then you'd better keep moving. "

    Meloetta @ Leftovers ***Eve Moneypenny***
    Ability: Serene Grace
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
    Nature: Calm
    - Psyshock
    - Thunder
    - Perish Song / Toxic
    - Heal Bell

    Now this is something I've been wanting to test out for quite a while. Calm Mind Ghost Arceus is probably one of the best Pokemon in Ubers at the present, and I didn't want to run something stupid like Blissey (also Blissey gets completely scrapped by SubCM Ghost Arceus). Anyway, I've always had a soft spot for Meloetta, and looking at what she did in OU, I was like "hey look Meloetta could counter GhostCeus". Holy crap she could, and ANYTHING that can counter an S-tier Pokemon on the viability ranking thread has a niche in the tier, no questions asked. Anyway, with full HP and Special investment, there is pretty much nothing Ghost Arceus can do to her at all. A +1 Focus Blast (if it hits) does a measly 27.97% - 32.92% to Specially Defensive Meloetta. On the other hand, Meloetta could paralyse the piece of crap, Perish Song it, wake up a sleeping Kyogre, or if I'm using Toxic, silence the thing immediately with Toxic. It's not just Ghost Arceus, either, it's against a number Special Attackers in the tier. She could even take a +1 Judgement from Dark Arceus and Perish Song last mon variants if need be, too. If she can't deal with it, she can always use Thunder for that paralysis with Serene Grace, then let something else deal with it. Psyshock in Meloetta's main STAB, and lets her deal enough to Fighting Arceus so she can at least paralyse, and then keep Psyshocking the bastard until it gets a full paralysis so she gets the 3HKO. Thunder is for paralysis most of the time, it doesn't really hit too many things excessively hard, unless you're Gyarados, lol. Heal Bell lets me cure the team of status, which is pretty important since I probably get like 80% full paralysis rates whenever I play. Also, it lets Meloetta cure herself of Toxic Spikes poison which would really hinder her job as well. The only real dilemma in moveslots is the choice between Perish Song and Toxic. I prefer Perish Song because it lets me fully counter SubCM Ghost Arceus (Psyshock requires too many EVs to guarantee breaking the Sub), while if I accidentally paralyse it with Thunder, I can't Toxic Ghostceus either. It also lets me clutch Perish Song a last mon Dark Arceus as well as Steel Arceus. Toxic, on the other hand, is useful for pretty much all round as it cripples everything.

    You may be wondering "Meloetta doesn't counter Swords Dance Ghostceus". Well, she doesn't, but SD Ghost Arceus is so shit he's not even worth considering when we talk about how good Ghostceus anyway. It's like using Hone Claws on Latias instead of Calm Mind. Besides, I think Skarmory handles SD Ghost just fine, don't you?

    Meloetta is Moneypenny because how crappy she seemed in the movie (can't drive, can't shoot), but still useful nonetheless.

    "The Walther PPK/S nine-millimeter short. It's been coded to your palmprint so only you can fire it. Less of a random killing machine, more of a personal statement. "

    Skarmory @ Leftovers ***Q***
    Ability: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
    Nature: Calm
    - Toxic
    - Spikes
    - Roost
    - Whirlwind

    I've always loved Skarmory in BW, and he's just as good in BW2. Basically, this thing is my physically defensive Pokemon that takes on shit like ExtremeKiller Arceus and all that. I was debating to myself whether I should use a physically defensive spread, but Specially Defensive just made Skarmory that much more durable in Ubers, otherwise shit like Scarf Spacial Rend would probably end up 2HKOing me with some prior damage. The current moveset is pretty much the same one I've been using ever since I started using Skarm in gen 5. Spikes, Roost and Whirlwind allows Skarmory to check most physical attackers. Toxic is used as the last move to cripple last-mon ExtremeKiller and other Swords Dance Arceuses. There's nothing much else to say, Skarmory is Skarmory. Nothing does what it does better.

    Skarmory is Q because he plays around with the gadgets (I guess you could replace with "Spikes") and is more a support behind the MI6.

    "The latest thing from Q branch; called a radio!"

    Kyurem-B @ Choice Scarf ***James Bond***
    Ability: Teravolt
    EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
    Nature: Adamant / Jolly
    - Outrage
    - Dragon Claw
    - Fusion Bolt
    - Sleep Talk / Ice Beam

    Now this is also something I decided to take for a spin, and it went pretty damn well. When I decided to add Kyurem-B to the team, I basically wanted a Scarfer that could semi-check both Kyogre and Latias at once. I originally had Scarf Palkia, and it simply wasn't cutting it against Latias. I could have run Outrage, I suppose, but seriously, Scarf Palkia was just lacking, especially when I don't have that much do deal with opposing Calm Mind Kyogres and it couldn't take it out Mewtwo reliably. Kyurem-B, on the other hand, will always 2HKO Kyogre, while doing a lot more to Mewtwo. What's different about this build is that obviously, I'm using max Special Defense instead of Attack. This happens more in OU as far I've seen, but also in Ubers, is that people immediately focus on Kyurem-B's massive base 170 Attack and its "lack of movepool" and jump to conclusions straight away. Kyurem-B's base 170 Attack is actually quite a big red herring, IMO. They completely forget that it also has 120/100/95 bulk, as well as resistances to some pretty important types (Water / Electric, lack of weakness to Ice). The base 170 Attack hardly needs to be invested for Kyurem-B to be effective, so you can easily just run a truckload of bulk and still be powerful enough to hurt most things. You still have 376 Attack completely uninvested (So with an Adamant nature and leftover 4 EVs in Attack, I get 414 Attack, which is around a base 157.5 Jolly natured attack). So that's what I did here. With max Special Defense, Kyurem-B avoids getting 2HKOed by ScarfOgre's Water Spout most of the time (presuming no Stealth Rock). The moveset is simple as you can get, since Kyurem-B has jack-shit for a movepool anyway. Even with minimal uninvestment and an Adamant nature, Kyurem-B can still OHKO Darkrai with Outrage after Stealth Rock damage. Dragon Claw is there so I don't have lock myself in. Fusion Bolt is for coverage, as well as destroying Kyogre with. I prefer Sleep Talk since I can switch into Darkrai and still destroy it, although Ice Beam is nice for taking out Gliscor. Don't even get me started on those Thunder Wave Darkrais though. I will ban everyone who uses it. Grrrr.

    Kyurem-B is James Bond since he is badass. It fits a bit better in Skyfall since Bond is seen as old and losing touch for a big portion of the movie, but still kicks ass in the end. Kyurem-B is pretty similar, as a lot of people see it to be a joke, and get thoroughly shocked when they find out Kyurem-Bodacious still destroys them. It's also funny how Kyurem also sounds like static from a radio as well.

    "Three months ago, you lost the drive containing the identity of every agent embedded in terrorist organizations across the globe."

    Excadrill @ Leftovers ***Gareth Mallory***
    Ability: Mold Breaker
    EVs: 52 HP / 252 SpD / 204 Spe
    Nature: Adamant
    - Stealth Rock
    - Earthquake
    - Rock Slide
    - Rapid Spin

    Excadrill is just such a useful Pokemon in Ubers. While in Rock All, I went for a full-on sweeper, this set is pretty much the definition of support. Excadrill's stats may look slightly lacking, but there with max Special Defensive, it can take hits very, very easily. You know that piece of shit called Donphan back in OU? Well this thing is basically what Donphan wishes it was. This thing spins and sets up Stealth Rock with little difficulty, as well as checking a number of threats, including but not limited to Dialga, Zekrom and Latias that lack Surf. With Stealth Rock and Spikes up a lot of the time, Ghost Arceus will need to use Recover a lot more often when it switches into Excadrill's Earthquakes. There really isn't that much to say about this set apart from describe what it does, which is pretty self-explanatory already. Stealth Rock and Rapid Spin for utility. Earthquake and Rock Slide are for best overall coverage. The Special Defense EVs really help Excadrill get around the place and it's surprisingly durable at times. For example, it can survive a Surf from Soul Dew Latios and get up Stealth Rock or Spin in a pinch if need be. I have considered running Sand Rush on there as well, since it can pick off weakened sand teams (204 Speed lets Excadrill outspeed Scarf Terrakion in the sand), but so far Mold Breaker has been more than useful as it lets Excadrill hammer Latias and dent Giratina enough to discourage it from coming in too often. It also bypasses Magic Bounce, so any team with Xatu/Espeon + Ho-oh combo instead of Ho-oh + Spinner combo would mean Ho-oh will lose 50% every time unless you kill Excadrill first.

    Excadrill's namesake is Gareth Mallory, the ex-agent and retired badass. It may seem like he's just another beaurecrat (ordinary Pokemon), but it turns out that he's pretty badass in his own right, just like Excadrill.

    "Welcome to Scotland!"

    Giratina-O @ Griseus Orb ***Kincade***
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 108 Atk / 252 SpA / 148 Spe
    Nature: Rash
    - Draco Meteor
    - Dragon Tail
    - Shadow Sneak
    - Thunder

    Standard Giratina-O blah blah blah. I originally had another Arceus form on this team (I think this was the team in which I was testing Flying Arceus) so I had to settle for Giratina-O as my spin-blocker. That was all well and good because Giratina-O is good enough anyway. This is pretty much the standard mixed attacking Giratina-O, except I decided that to max out Special Attack instead of Attack. This is because Mewtwo isn't as big a threat to my team since I have Meloetta and Kyurem-B, while having something to take down Groudon quickly is a very nice plus. It cleanly OHKOs Jolly Life Orb Groudon after one round of LO recoil, while doing at least 70% to your standard 252 HP / 0 SpD ones. Apart from that, there isn't much different about this Giratina-O's and other Giratina-O's. The Speed EVs are just speed creeping other Giratina-O's, while the moveset is exactly the same as in trickroom's Drown All. I do sometimes find the power on Shadow Sneak a bit lacking though, it generally only does about 45% to standard Mewtwo, for instance. Maybe I shouldn't speed-creep THAT much (but then again, so many base 90s are creeping up to max Speed anyway, with those annoying ass Jolly Groudons everywhere).

    Anyway, Giratina-O is Kincade because Kincade is just badass, and there isn't many more people that I can name him after, really. I could name him after the bad guy, Raoul Silva, but this is more naming after the good guys, so Kincade takes it.

    That's pretty much it. Rate/Hate/Steal
  2. trickroom

    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Sep 13, 2009
    Finally someone posted a non Arceus team. I have not watched SkyFfall so I can't comment on that :P

    Your team lacks a solid switch in to Specs Kyogre because everything is 2HKOed at worst, including Kyurem-B and your own Kyogre. The best way is probably sack something and bring in Kyurem-B or Giratina-O to hit it hard before Specs Kyogre can move. If Kyogre runs Speed, it can outrun Meloetta since you are not invested and OHKO you first with Water Spout.

    I suggest you use back Thunder on your Kyogre so you can immediately threaten opposing Kyogre. Ice Beam is only for Rayquaza but you have Skarmory to tank Outrages if needed. If it is the Mixed variant Meloetta can sort of tank it but I don't know, its up to you really. Kyurem can easily force out most Rayquaza anyway.

    Putting the remaining EVs into Attack rather than HP can be a better idea for Excadrill since you don't survive anything extra but the extra power can help wear down things like Giratina-O better. Maybe Swords Dance over Rock Slide? In that case Ho-Oh will be a bitch but you have Kyogre and Kyurem-B to cover that and reliable Stealth Rock user with Giratina-O.

    You have to watch out for Palkia though especially those Lustrous Orb variants because Surf will 2HKO Meloetta in rain. The rest of your team are OHKOed or 2HKO(Kyogre). Kyurem-B is your only way of revenge killing it. You can try something crazy like SR Garchomp but I think Excadrill is better in most cases for Rapid Spin and being a Steel-type. Specs Kyurem-W is also very annoying to this team because it can freely switch in on Skarmory or maybe Meleotta and deal huge amounts of damage with Draco Meteor, even Skarmory is 2HKOed.

    Ghost Arceus > Giratina-O will help vs Kyurem-W a bit but you will lose your Dragon Tail spamming and some resistances such as Water, Fire and Grass, which isn't needed anyway because you have Skarmory and Kyogre. Ghost Arceus also makes Fighting Arceus a lot of less threatening and beats Gliscor one-on-one. You outrun it so no Sub stall.

    Ice Beam > Sleep Talk on Kyurem because Gliscor will be very annoying as it can setup on Skarm, Meleotta and maybe Giratina-O in some situations.

    Looks like a rare but solid team. Also finally a good Kyurem-B team!
  3. polop

    is a Contributor Alumnus

    Apr 29, 2011
    A team that has meloetta in Ubers and uses it to where its not outclassed...how?

    Aside that I'm amazed that you actually managed to stuff the singer onto a team where it wasn't outclassed but the team itself does have some issues that I do think you should address. This team's defensive backbone isn't exactly completely developed, meaning that there are some threats that can demolish or hurt the team should they be given the chance.

    Firstly, you lack a switch-in to Specs Kyogre's Water Spout. This monster can easily come in on Skarmory and release its Spout the turn after, immediately OHKOing anything that you can try switching into it. Even Kyurem-B falls should Stealth Rock be up.

    Secondly, you have a Dragon Dance Rayquaza weakness. After a Dragon Dance, Rayquaza can outspeed and OHKO the entire team (at best it speeds tie with Kyurem-B, but its not even Jolly the entire time...). Well actually, any Dragon with a boosting move (ex: Dragon Dance Latios (requires a little bit of passive damage on meloetta though, easy to get seeing as it lacks recovery though), Tailwind Lati@s (same as DD Latios), Tailwind Rayquaza, etc.) might prove to be threatening since they also can kill pretty much the entire team after a speed boost. The best thing you can force is an Outrage / Draco Meteor and switch to skarm but that's not exactly reliable, is it? If the speed boosting dragon uses Dragon Claw or Dragon Pulse, I think that'd be checkmate.

    To assuage this problem I reccomend using a Grass Arceus over Meloetta. I know you made the team practically for the reason but I can't find any other way around this problem. Putting Perish Song on Grass Arceus just means you can do all Meloetta could do earlier while having a Specs Kyogre check AND something to switch into dragons AND have something that has recovery. Using a Water Arceus is also a decent idea as it lets you get a switch-in to Specs K-white but that's another issue... that and Grass Arceus makes the perfect Palkia switch-in who might become quite annoying since it breaks past your main special sponge.

    I'm skeptical to how well Kyurem-B is functioning seeing it lacks attack EVs but whatever works I guess.

    Its an interesting and rare team, I have no doubt about its effectiveness but one thing is for sure, it makes use of pokes I never thought had a niche X_X. Fantastic job Shrang :P.

    Also what's Skyfall? WHO ARE THESE RANDOM NAMES OF?
  4. shrang

    shrang Draw me... like one of your human girls
    is a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Battle Server Moderatoris a Tiering Contributor Alumnus

    Jul 24, 2009
    I guess I could replace Meloetta with Grass Arceus, something like Perish Song / Judgement / Recover / Toxic | Thunder Wave | Ice Beam sounds alright.

    I'm aware of the SpecsOgre weakness, which I probably should have mentioned, but the main thing is that it's so damn rare that I could away with just Kyurem-B and hazards most of the time anyway.
  5. Ashirogi Muto

    Ashirogi Muto Banned deucer.

    Mar 27, 2012
    Just curious, how did that happen?
  6. His Eminence Lord Poppington II

    His Eminence Lord Poppington II proverb:the fish who eats most dies still too
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Live Chat Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Jul 29, 2010
    Not the mono-flying team i expected.

    while it seems cool for checking cm ghost arc sp.d skarmory pretty much does that, giving meloetta a largely redundant role as its use is rather niche...
    the lack of a real kyogre check is also extremely worrying, kyurem-b is SR weak AND a choice-locked 'mon. excadrill's speed EVs also seem largely superfluous, although nice for very fast ho-oh i suppose (but even those can still outspeed.) giratina-o also has a lot of stressed placed on it, needing to check groudon (all of which have fire moves now), blaziken, ho-oh (somewhat), and terrakion. the lack of proper sleep absorber also looks somewhat annoying against a well-played darkrai, i.e. one that doesn't lead vs your chesto kyogre.
    a few easy fixes would be to use a resttalk sdef cm kyogre, a physically based giratina-o with maximum defense and some speed creep + enough attack EVs to KO blaziken and ho-oh after SR with outrage, Will-O-Wisp for groudon, shadow sneak for standard stuff, and dragon tail or earthquake if you're paranoid about sub drill spinning vs you.
    also going with the general sentiment here that grass arc with psong > meloetta lol
  7. Donkey


    Oct 30, 2011
    I never thought I'd ask this question but what do you do against any team that has a Ferrothorn? You have nothing that can kill it easily or even threaten it unless you rely on a 30% burn with Scald, which, unfortunately is not a real strategy.

    I'd suggest using a physically defensive resttalk Kyogre paired with Arceus-Grass instead of Meloetta. Arceus-Grass will fix your Ferrothorn issues and help with Lustrous Palkia, Rayquaza, and Specs Kyogre. Phys def Kyogre will help vs Ho-oh, Blaziken, Groudon and other threats to skarm.

    Just because a pokemon like Specs Kyogre is rare does not mean that you should not prepare for it. 17% of Kyogres held Choice Specs, resulting in about 5.7% of players having this pokemon. For reference, only 1.7% of players used Arceus-Fight.

    Good luck and I am sorry that I can't see a way for Meloetta to work on that team.

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