CAP 2 Smogon "Create a Pokemon" Part Deux: Poll 7b

Ability = ????

  • Air Lock

    Votes: 92 52.9%
  • No Ability

    Votes: 82 47.1%

  • Total voters
    174
  • Poll closed .
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Magmortified

<b>CAP 8 Playtesting Expert</b>
is a CAP Contributor Alumnus
@Time Mage: WoW isn't a good idea? Why not? This would make our the mummy about the only Ghost that doesn't get WoW. Dusknoir gets it, but then, so does Rotom, Mismagius, Gengar, etc. Pain Split as well would be pushing it, but WoW is freely available on most Ghosts anyways.

I repeat my support of Mach Punch.
 

Ash Borer

I've heard they're short of room in hell
bulk up on this guy would be perfect.

moonlight only has 8 pp, so it would not be like recover's 16.

Air lock is gay btw, he is not getting it =)
 
Dane, only criticism is to remove Icy Wind. We've already determined this move is too strong because it hits all the Flying counters (except Gyarados) Super Effective and makes them slower (depending on spreads) than the mummy. Ice Punch doesn't have the speed drop, which is why it is still up for consideration.
 
Spin Blocker (We can't stop this because it is a Ghost type)
General Purpose Wall with the ability to stop most major threats.

I really don't want to impede on the second one. Dusknoir can cover almost all physical attackers and most special attackers in D/P depending on its moves. Will-o-Wisp and Pain Split are considered the core of most Dusknoir sets, although RestTalk and some 3 attack variants exist. Anything that makes this guy outclass Dusknoir in those two aspects is going to almost going to get axed.

The second part of Dusknoir's great tanking ability is the fact that its movepool is so varied that if you are weak to something, Dusknoir probably learns something to hit you with. It gets much trickier here though. Just because Dusknoir has an attack doesn't mean our Mummy shouldn't have that same attack. However, some of Dusknoir's movepool just doesn't fit the design right off the bat (Earthquake and ThunderPunch come to mind). Other moves we will look at on a case by case basis.

That clear up what I mean?
Yes...that clears it up just nicely and I want to say I'm relieved that there's someone who knows what's Dusknoir's main duty is because I was having feelings that most of the people who are voting don't.
 
Yeah, but I figured it'd be better to make the move that counter's the Pokemon's main weakness attack off of it's weak stat. Ice Punch is too strong, and would make him VERY hard to counter at all. None of the other Ice physical attacks (which also go off his strong attack stat) really make much sense with what he is.
 
@Time Mage: WoW isn't a good idea? Why not? This would make our the mummy about the only Ghost that doesn't get WoW. Dusknoir gets it, but then, so does Rotom, Mismagius, Gengar, etc. Pain Split as well would be pushing it, but WoW is freely available on most Ghosts anyways.

I repeat my support of Mach Punch.
Frosslass doesn't get WoW, so there, you have a precedent. But anyway, when I say it's not a good idea, the main reason is to not outclass Dusknoir.


Also, regarding EQ, I'm not totally against it, but it could live without it.
 
Yeah, but I figured it'd be better to make the move that counter's the Pokemon's main weakness attack off of it's weak stat. Ice Punch is too strong, and would make him VERY hard to counter at all. None of the other Ice physical attacks (which also go off his strong attack stat) really make much sense with what he is.
Which is why I am more inclined to leaving off all Ice Moves. Ice Punch and Icy Wind are the only ones that make sense, and they are on the border of being too strong.

And why are people discussing Will-o-Wisp if there is no way this is getting it?
 
Bandages make me think of attacks like Wrap and Bind.

Has to use his arms and such to battle, so as a physical Fighter, it needs Karate Chop, Close Combat, Brick Break, Rock Smash, Drain Punch, Vital Throw, Revenge, and Focus Punch.

As for physical Ghost attacks, Shadow Sneak and Shadow Punch should be enough (doesn't seem to have claws for Shadow Claw).

For special STAB, Aura Sphere, Shadow Ball, Focus Blast, and Vacuum Wave should be on it.

It's a mummy, so Sand Attack, Mud Slap, Mud Shot, and Earth Power to make it unique from the other Ghosts as well.

For other kinds of attacks, U-Turn, Body Slam, Ice Punch, Knock Off, Facade, and Rock Tomb seem to work well for it.

And for other stat changing/status abilities, I like Glare, Nasty Plot, Bulk Up, and Sing.

The reason I didn't add things like Ice Beam, Energy Ball, Thunderbolt, Dark Pulse, or other common special attacks is because those are typical special attacks Ghosts learn, and since this thing is part Fighting and most Fighters don't have access to moves like those, that limit should be in place; that's the same reason I didn't give it Rock Slide, Stone Edge, Cross Chop, or Earthquake, as Ghosts don't learn those attacks either. I think that the mummy should play off of the fact that it's a hybrid of those types instead of capitalising on it being one or the other, as it seems that most people are focusing on it being a Ghost when it comes to all of its attacks, and focus only on the Fighting for STAB, Rock Slide, and Earthquake.

Also, Pursuit and Sucker Punch are attacks that Dusknoir, Banette, and Spiritomb need to be somewhat different from the other Ghosts, so I didn't feel that the mummy should take anything more away from either of them.
 

Magmortified

<b>CAP 8 Playtesting Expert</b>
is a CAP Contributor Alumnus
And why are people discussing Will-o-Wisp if there is no way this is getting it?
Because it's kind of unclear why it's not getting it. WoW is frankly obtainable by every Ghost Pokemon (excluding Froslass, the freak of the family that has to evolve to be a ghost) as of yet. The fabled Pain Split is more exclusive to Dusknoir and pals. So why not Will o Wisp? Dusknoir's territory in that department belongs to every (minus Froslass) ghost. And it's not like it's outclassing Dusknoir by getting WoW. Especially if it doesn't get Pain Split or any other good recovery move.
 
Icy Wind:
Quiet (+SpA -Speed) 252SpA vs Neutral Gyarados 212HP: 11.20% - 13.28%
Quiet (+SpA -Speed) 252SpA vs Neutral Skarmory 252HP: 17.37% - 20.36%
Quiet (+SpA -Speed) 252SpA vs Calm Togekiss 252HP 252SpD: 15.51% - 18.18%
Quiet (+SpA -Speed) 252SpA vs Neutral Gliscor 252 HP: 61.86% - 72.60%


Ice Punch would obviously be much stronger, since he can pump it via Bulk Up / Curse, and not have to split EVs. Also, these numbers are small outside of Gliscor, and even with his x4 weak, a +SpAtk nature on the mummy, and 252 evs in SpAtk, it still only does 72.60% max. I'd say it's far from overpowering on him, and still adds flavor.
 
Because it's kind of unclear why it's not getting it. WoW is frankly obtainable by every Ghost Pokemon (excluding Froslass, the freak of the family that has to evolve to be a ghost) as of yet. The fabled Pain Split is more exclusive to Dusknoir and pals. So why not Will o Wisp? Dusknoir's territory in that department belongs to every (minus Froslass) ghost. And it's not like it's outclassing Dusknoir by getting WoW. Especially if it doesn't get Pain Split or any other good recovery move.
Read the post where I said where I did not want this to be Dusknoir with better typing or Spiritomb with better stats. I already have said why there is no way this is getting. Read the bold part of the quote below.

Spin Blocker (We can't stop this because it is a Ghost type)
General Purpose Wall with the ability to stop most major threats.

I really don't want to impede on the second one. Dusknoir can cover almost all physical attackers and most special attackers in D/P depending on its moves. Will-o-Wisp and Pain Split are considered the core of most Dusknoir sets, although RestTalk and some 3 attack variants exist. Anything that makes this guy outclass Dusknoir in those two aspects is going to almost going to get axed.

The second part of Dusknoir's great tanking ability is the fact that its movepool is so varied that if you are weak to something, Dusknoir probably learns something to hit you with. It gets much trickier here though. Just because Dusknoir has an attack doesn't mean our Mummy shouldn't have that same attack. However, some of Dusknoir's movepool just doesn't fit the design right off the bat (Earthquake and ThunderPunch come to mind). Other moves we will look at on a case by case basis.

That clear up what I mean?
 
I'm really against Close Combat, since every fighter and their mother gets it. I'd give it some combination of Cross Chop/Superpower/Hammer Arm for physical fighting STAB. With both Shadow Sneak and/or Mach Punch, I don't think Vacume Wave is neccesary, though Aura Sphere makes sense on a mummy. I also like the idea of him using Rock Slide and Rock Tomb instead of Stone Edge.

I agree with the no-ice/fire policy. Toxic is given to most pokemon as a TM, as are Protect, Hidden Power, Substitute, Rest and Sleep Talk. Curse, Grudge, Spite and Nasty Plot are all thematically appropriate moves, as are Mean Look, Glare, Bind/Wrap, Sand Attack, Sand Tomb and Earthquake/Earth Power.

He was practically designed with Bulk Up in mind, so we ought to give him that. Swords Dance doesn't fit a mummy very well imo. If Airlock doesn't win, I think Sunny Day should be considered for a desert-dweller.
 
Ice moves, as I showed with a couple quick damage calc, are fine as long as they're special (his weakest stat) and it's an inherently weak attack (Icy Wind). It won't really do much, adds flavor, and I suppose you could use it in some crazy ass gimmick Choice Specs set.
 
Ice moves, as I showed with a couple quick damage calc, are fine as long as they're special (his weakest stat) and it's an inherently weak attack (Icy Wind). It won't really do much, adds flavor, and I suppose you could use it in some crazy ass gimmick Choice Specs set.
For Icy Wind, it's more the fact that he makes all Gliscor and most Salamence slower than him (Salamence is a counter because of Intimidate by the way). This also applies to Crobat and Togekiss, who are no less of counters. None of these Pokemon, including Gyarados, likes losing speed. That's the main reason I am against Icy Wind; it hits the 4x weaks and 2HKO's them while slowing down all switch-ins, providing amazing team support. I'm probably more for Ice Beam than I am for Icy Wind.
 
But if Icy Wind can deal 61-72% damage to Gliscor and it's only 65 BP, an Ice Beam with 95 BP will likely OHKO. At that point, might as well just not give it Ice attacks I guess.
 

Magmortified

<b>CAP 8 Playtesting Expert</b>
is a CAP Contributor Alumnus
Will-o-Wisp and Pain Split are considered the core of most Dusknoir sets, although RestTalk and some 3 attack variants exist. Anything that makes this guy outclass Dusknoir in those two aspects is going to almost going to get axed.
Key word: And.

Lack of a move like Pain Split would lead this thing to focus more on the offense over defense. Which is something Dusknoir rarely does.
 
Honestly, we're trying to make this OU anyway. Furthermore it is unlikely to see play on more than test servers. Therefore, why not give it Will-o-Wisp to complete the Ghost-type flavor?

Saying that this needs to lose Will-o-Wisp to be "different" from Dusknoir is like saying Gengar's ability to use Will-o-Wisp is a major reason why people prefer Gengar over Dusknoir.

There will be plenty more important differences between Dusknoir and this mummy other than Will-o-Wisp anyway, especially if we allow it to have Bulk Up or make Swampert-like offensive strategies possible.
 
IDC if it has one or two abilites, but since Hyra got mad at the people voting "No Ability" and said it was "selfish", I went with Air Lock this time around. Yup.
 
But it doesn't HAVE ghost flavor. It's a mummy, a corporeal undead (droppin' some DnD on ya). Have you ever seen a mummy shoot fire at people? Flavor doesn't really come from typing. Hariyama, for example, gets Thick Fat, which doesn't fit flavorfully with a fighting type but does with a sumo wrestler.
 
ok, I think people are getting so crazy trying to make this guy as not broken as possible that they're starting to make some bad decisions.

First of all the banning of the elemental punches seems very strange to me. I think people are forgetting this is pokemon with base 105 attack, that will likely need to pump its defenses if it hopes to take on Tar and Hera. Even hitting super effective, the elemental punches will still be most likely hitting for about the same as his STAB fighting move (assuming he gets Cross Chop / Hammer Arm), and he can only carry one at a time considering he'll most likely be running something like Bulk Up / Fighting / Ghost / Elemental Punch. All this does is give him a little more viability, not break him. If we can counter pokemon with 120+ attack like Machamp which have access 120 power fighting moves, all the punches, and Stone Edge, then we shouldn't have any reservations in giving this pokemon at least the elemental punches

Next, I think giving him absolutely no means of recovery outside of rest is a mistake. His stats suggest that he likes to play defensively, but his defenses aren't good enough to get by on rest alone, like Suicune or something. I think Morning Sun is a very good option, even if Air Lock gets chosen, as 8 PP is extremely limiting and balancing, but still would help him out tremendously. I just don't see how a pokemon meant to tangle with such hard hitting threats as Tyranitar and Heracross is expected to survive without any form of recovery at all

Otherwise, I agree with not giving him Will-o-wisp, and also with the lets not just make a better Dusknoir mentallity. I just think people need to step back and think for a second. This pokemon has base 105 attack, his only attack boosting move is +1 - there are very few actual attacks we could give him that would make him broken.
 
My ideas (based from Deck Knight):


Level 1: Wrap
Level 1: Leer
Level 4: Sand Attack
Level 7: Scary Face
Level 10: Sand Tomb
Level 14: Rock Tomb
Level 19: Glare
Level 24: Shadow Punch
Level 29: Ancientpower
Level 35: Sucker Punch
Level 41: Cross Chop
Level 48: Shadow Ball
Level 53: Mean Look
Level 59: Heal Block
Level 66: Aura Sphere

Egg Moves:
Grudge
Shadow Sneak
Curse
Destiny Bond
Pursuit
Nasty Plot
Knock Off
Mach Punch

TMs:
01 Focus Punch
06 Toxic
08 Bulk Up
10 Hidden Power
11 Sunny Day
12 Taunt
15 Hyper Beam
17 Protect
19 Giga Drain
21 Frustration
26 Earthquake
27 Return
30 Shadow Ball
31 Brick Break
32 Double Team
39 Rock Tomb
41 Torment
42 Facade
43 Secret Power
44 Rest
45 Attract
46 Thief
52 Focus Blast
53 Energy Ball
56 Fling
58 Endure
60 Drain Punch
63 Embargo
66 Payback
68 Giga Impact
70 Flash
77 Psyche Up
78 Captivate
79 Dark Pulse
80 Rock Slide
82 Sleep Talk
83 Natural Gift
87 Swagger
90 Substitute
H4 Strength
H6 Rock Smash
H8 Rock Climb
 
I think a lot of people are fogetting that this mummy gets the sacrifice and poison version of curse. I think it is still thematic, and it should get it, but it is not terribly usefull.

I just wanted to mention that I think it should get rage and thrash. Also, it would be kind of cool if it got Outrage too, but that would probably be too powerful. It should get Ancientpower as well.

EDIT: nevermind this:What do people think of making it genderless?
 
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