Smogon Doubles LC

[chimp]

So I'd like to talk about these two little gems.

Lickitung @ Eviolite
Ability: Cloud Nine / Own Tempo
Level: 5
EVs: 78 Def / 236 SDef / 196 HP
Careful Nature
- Wish / some other move
- Protect
- Knock Off / Return
- Icy Wind / Thunder Wave / Heal Bell / some other move

Abra @ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
Level: 5
EVs: 196 Spd / 236 SAtk / 76 SDef
Timid Nature
- Psychic
- Protect
- Shadow Ball
- Energy Ball / Hidden Power Fighting / Taunt / Dazzling Gleam (I hate you Scraggy just sayin)

Abra's thing speed tier is ridiculously high in here, and its basically like the deoxys-a of normal doubles. Life Orb boosted STAB Psychic hits everything hard and the remainder of the moves are really miscellanous stuff that covers for other things. It can live a move if needed, but its very very fragile. Its a nice mon in a place where fighting types are everywhere ;_;.

Lickitung on the other hand is like the Cresselia of standard doubles. Great mixed bulk on both sides of the spectrum, ability to slow down teams with Icy Wind or spread status relatively easily. Return still hits hard if it needs too while Knock Off makes it even more disruptive, and lets it become extremely anti misdreavus if needed. Wish gives recovery but I get its a weird move in doubles so it can be removed. This thing's movepool is insane though, I suggest it be tried out. Cloud Nine is obviously the superior ability but Own Tempo lets you use Wish, but again its viability is questionable...

For reference on how bulky it is look at how easily it takes a Vulpix's Fire Blast:


Unfortunately normal-types in a place where fighting types are everywhere (mienfoo / Scraggy / Meditite are all very very viable Pokemon) hurts it but I guess its ability to mess with Misdreavus makes it even better then.

Munchlax walls Vulpix even better:
196 SpA Vulpix Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 236 SpD Eviolite Thick Fat Munchlax in Sun: 7-9 (23.3 - 30%) -- 22.8% chance to 4HKO

Though lickitung is still cool for getting Knock Off to punish Misdreavus even harder and cripple fighting types who try to switch in. It also get Wish!

 

[Electrolyte]

As someone that loves and plays both LC and Doubles (yet apparently sucks when the two are put together), this idea is a dream come true.

Looking at it from a comparative basis; I found it really interesting to note that Fighting-types are once again pigeonholed into bulky Fake Out supporters. Things like Scraggy (which plays quite similarly to Hitmontop) and Mienfoo dodge around, spam Fake Out, and are a general annoyance. "Attack control" is still prominent, especially since so many common Pokemon in Little Cup can afford to run burning attacks (be it WoW or Scald) and aren't afraid to use them. Spread spam is also prevalent; there's protect + spread, there's switch to immunity + spread, and there's also wide guard + spread (credit to Audio; that Tirtouga, man, that Tirtouga). Little Cup Pokemon might not have the developed stats and movepools as their fully evolved counterparts do, but a majority of common strategies found in regular doubles is copypasted into LC Doubles.

Arcticblast edit: ATTACK CONTROL IS NOT A REAL TERM WTF

 

[Audiosurfer]

With some good playing I was thankfully able to overcome some hax on my end to defeat youngjake's sun team. Sun isn't quite as invincible as previously thought. Didn't really wanna focus much on the game though, just wanna share the team I used in the match which I've been using for a few days now. Is just an upgraded version of the initial team I used with Larvesta > Snover since Snover turned out to be pretty useless. While the team has some flaws such as a lack of a Water resist, its ability to perform fairly well across the board matchup wise has made it pretty useful for me as I've been playing. Pokemon such as Mienfoo, Pawniard, and Gligar can be threatening to many different teams and can act independently without much support needed teamwise, which made them favorable teams. Will probably tweak the team further later, but I figured I'd share the newer version for those looking to try the tier out.

 

[Goddess Briyella]

I love this idea! I think this could give LC weather a whole new approach, as well as Trick Room; Spritzee's Aroma Veil and Swirlix's Sweet Veil would finally have a purpose outside of 1v1 in LC, and both of Flabébé's abilities would actually not be totally pointless. I will probably post more later.

All moves but Dark Void and OHKO moves are allowed.

Little Cup also has Sonic Boom and Dragon Rage banned, as they deal fixed amounts of damage (20 HP and 40 HP, respectively), and most mons in the tier have only around 20 HP. I think these should be added to the list of banned moves for this idea as well.

 

[Audiosurfer]

I love this idea! I think this could give LC weather a whole new approach, as well as Trick Room; Spritzee's Aroma Veil and Swirlix's Sweet Veil would finally have a purpose outside of 1v1 in LC, and both of Flabébé's abilities would actually not be totally pointless. I will probably post more later.



Little Cup also has Sonic Boom and Dragon Rage banned, as they deal fixed amounts of damage (20 HP and 40 HP, respectively), and most mons in the tier have only around 20 HP. I think these should be added to the list of banned moves for this idea as well.

If you look at the banlist I said that all rules applied to standard LC apply here as well, which means it had the same banlist, including those moves.

 

[Goddess Briyella]

If you look at the banlist I said that all rules applied to standard LC apply here as well, which means it had the same banlist, including those moves.

I know, I wasn't meaning to say you forgot to mention them. ^^ I just feel they should be added to that list of moves out in the open since not everyone is going to go look at Little Cup's rules if they don't play the tier, and I just thought it would be better placed on the forefront here for everyone's convenience.

 

[Pen Ink]

i might be in love <3

ya okay i need to try this and post something relevant!

 

[Audiosurfer]

I know, I wasn't meaning to say you forgot to mention them. ^^ I just feel they should be added to that list of moves out in the open since not everyone is going to go look at Little Cup's rules if they don't play the tier, and I just thought it would be better placed on the forefront here for everyone's convenience.

Oh, I get what you mean now. It's updated w/ the rules listed with the rest of them now. Thanks for the catch :)

i might be in love <3

ya okay i need to try this and post something relevant!

You definitely should! Will likely coordinate a small tournament for this format here so keep on the lookout if you're interested for a chance to test your skills :)

 

[Gyarad0s]

You definitely should! Will likely coordinate a small tournament for this format here so keep on the lookout if you're interested for a chance to test your skills :)

Yesh plz

If I may suggest it: What we really want to do is get people teambuilding so new strategies and mons are tried out in LC right? So why don't we have a tournament based around the idea of building a certain number of teams and playing until you lose them?

i.e. We submit four teams at the beginning of the tour (and each team can have no more than, say, three mons in common with another individual team to prevent just slightly changing teams). Every time we lose a match we can no longer use that team for the duration of the tour-so we would just play round robin until we lose all of our teams. It could also make for some long and interesting finals :).

Just an idea, I would be willing to organize it if you don't want to-but I love the idea of an LC tour :D.

EDIT @ Audiosurfer below: Yeah I can understand that. I look forward to it

 

[Audiosurfer]

Yesh plz

If I may suggest it: What we really want to do is get people teambuilding so new strategies and mons are tried out in LC right? So why don't we have a tournament based around the idea of building a certain number of teams and playing until you lose them?

i.e. We submit four teams at the beginning of the tour (and each team can have no more than, say, three mons in common with another individual team to prevent just slightly changing teams). Every time we lose a match we can no longer use that team for the duration of the tour-so we would just play round robin until we lose all of our teams. It could also make for some long and interesting finals :).

Just an idea, I would be willing to organize it if you don't want to-but I love the idea of an LC tour :D.

For the first one I just wanna keep it simple, but that's an idea I might try out in the future, thanks :)

 

[cxinlee]

I love this.

Also clamperl rapes the entire tier

 

[Audiosurfer]

Not really. While Clamperl is very powerful after the boost from DeepSeaTooth, it isn't very fast and is also pretty frail since it can't afford to run Eviolite or Berry Juice. So yeah while it can be used successfully it by no means destroys the whole tier. Something like a faster Pokemon, a priority user, or a Wide Guard user could act as a pretty decent Clamperl check. It can function well under Trick Room though, which would let it spam high-powered Muddy Waters and blast holes in teams, or with Rage Powder or Follow Me support. A set of Muddy Water / Ice Beam / Filler / Protect @ DeepSeaTooth is pretty threatening though and as a mon it's worth having some sort of answer to on your team.

glad you like the tier though :)

 

[chimp]

Not really. While Clamperl is very powerful after the boost from DeepSeaTooth, it isn't very fast and is also pretty frail since it can't afford to run Eviolite or Berry Juice. So yeah while it can be used successfully it by no means destroys the whole tier. Something like a faster Pokemon, a priority user, or a Wide Guard user could act as a pretty decent Clamperl check. It can function well under Trick Room though, which would let it spam high-powered Muddy Waters and blast holes in teams, or with Rage Powder or Follow Me support. A set of Muddy Water / Ice Beam / Filler / Protect @ DeepSeaTooth is pretty threatening though and as a mon it's worth having some sort of answer to on your team.

glad you like the tier though :)

Why is Muddy Water preferred over Surf? I'm not too familiar with doubles.

 

[BlankZero]

Why is Muddy Water preferred over Surf? I'm not too familiar with doubles.

Surf hits your ally, while MW doesn't. But! Surf is 100% accuracy while MW is 80 (85? I can't look it up) with the same power. MW also carries a 30% chance to drop your opponents' accuracy each attack.

audio edit: it's 85%

Blank edit: thanks. I knew it was somewhere between Stone Edge and WoW.

pwne edit: if i'm using it, 40%

blank edit: and against me it's 10%

 

[chimp]

Surf hits your ally, while MW doesn't. But! Surf is 100% accuracy while MW is 80 (85? I can't look it up) with the same power. MW also carries a 30% chance to drop your opponents' accuracy each attack.

audio edit: it's 85%

Okay, that makes sense. Thanks.

 

[cxinlee]

Or you could run blizzard with snover/auroras.

Audiosurfer: True it is frail, but slowness can be avoided with ss.

Its frailness can be bypassed with follow me support (It's 85 defense allows it to tank EQ and rock slide)

Edit: oops, its amaura not auroras

 

[Audiosurfer]

Yeah, something like that could work. Like I said it's not gonna decimate the whole tier or anything but it could definitely win a lot of games. Speaking of Follow Me, there was a pretty cool pairing pitched by kingofkongs in #doubles some days ago that I think could be highly effective. Haven't had a team to test it on myself really but it could definitely be really cool. Here's the core:

Swirlix @ Berry Juice
Ability: Unburden
Level: 5
EVs: 212 Atk / 68 Def / 204 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Belly Drum
- Play Rough
- Return
- Protect

Foongus @ Eviolite
Ability: Regenerator
Level: 5
EVs: 204 HP / 236 SDef
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Spore
- Rage Powder
- Giga Drain
- Protect

With Rage Powder, Foongus can create free turns for Swirlix to set up a Belly Drum. It also has Spore to put one of Swirlix's checks to sleep. Once Swirlix sets up, it's then at +6 Attack, letting it tear through an opposing team. In addition, Berry Juice will activate, bringing Swirlix back to full health and activating Unburden, which doubles Swirlix's Speed. Swirlix is bulky enough that it could survive a priority attack or two and still be able to tear through a team at +6/+2. Without Trick Room up, the opponent will be under a lot of pressure when staring down a Swirlix after a Belly Drum. Like I said I have yet to try it out myself but I'd definitely recommend doing so, you might really enjoy it.

 

[Audiosurfer]

Double posting but w/e since no one's posted here in a while (and I'm a mod I'll do what I want lol)

Anyways, recently for the SPL All-Star week there have been not one but two battles where LC Doubles played a role. One was Braverius vs Tanner, the other was Blarajan vs Al Alchemist. Here are the replays from the two battles:

Blarajan vs Al Alchemist
Braverius vs Tanner

Anyways, seeing as this is All-Star week, these players are clearly high level battlers in LC and Doubles respectively, so I thought there might be some value in discussing the two games. What did you think about the strategies used by these players? Were there any Pokemon you felt underperformed? Did any prove themselves to be surprisingly effective? Did anyone fail to handle a certain threat properly? Keep questions such as these in mind as you discuss the games :)

 

[youngjake93]

Double posting but w/e since no one's posted here in a while (and I'm a mod I'll do what I want lol)

Anyways, recently for the SPL All-Star week there have been not one but two battles where LC Doubles played a role. One was Biosci vs Tanner, the other was Blarajan vs Al Alchemist. Here are the replays from the two battles:

Blarajan vs Al Alchemist
Biosci vs Tanner

Anyways, seeing as this is All-Star week, these players are clearly high level battlers in LC and Doubles respectively, so I thought there might be some value in discussing the two games. What did you think about the strategies used by these players? Were there any Pokemon you felt underperformed? Did any prove themselves to be surprisingly effective? Did anyone fail to handle a certain threat properly? Keep questions such as these in mind as you discuss the games :)

Is Biosci not Braverius lol
Speaking of which, I was relieved to see the goodstuffs on Biosci's team. Mostly players were relying on gimmicks or brute strength(which is understandable on all star week), but Biosci brought everything from Fake Out to Perish Song in that game and blended them together nicely.
I also find it interesting how he used sturdy juice magnemite! Having 3 lives is pretty great in a meta where you can get double targeted.
The other teams were really powerful and Blarajan's rain spam was pretty interesting, but none were really built to be a reliable doubles team like Biosci's.

 

[Pocket]

I personally enjoyed the Helioptile action in blara vs alchemist's match. Murkrow is lc's Thundurus n_n

Sooo do we keep Gligar and Swirlix, or are they getting banned?

 

[Joim]

I'd say they can be kept on Doubles, right?

 

[Swamp-Rocket]

All moves but Dark Void, Dragon Rage, Sonic Boom, and OHKO moves are allowed.

Nothing in LC learns Dark Void so technically it doesn't need to be banned.

 

[Audiosurfer]

Ok, I'm going to keep Gligar and Swirlix unbanned in Doubles LC since they've yet to be shown as broken in the tier. Also I'll be sure to edit that out Swamp Rocket, thanks for the catch :)

Is Biosci not Braverius lol
Speaking of which, I was relieved to see the goodstuffs on Biosci's team. Mostly players were relying on gimmicks or brute strength(which is understandable on all star week), but Biosci brought everything from Fake Out to Perish Song in that game and blended them together nicely.
I also find it interesting how he used sturdy juice magnemite! Having 3 lives is pretty great in a meta where you can get double targeted.
The other teams were really powerful and Blarajan's rain spam was pretty interesting, but none were really built to be a reliable doubles team like Biosci's.

this i'd agree with. a lot of the teams definitely could've had more cohesion and focus. still, it was cool to see the wide range of strategies being brought to the matches.

 

[skies]

I'd like to try Combee, don't just disregard it here.
Combee @ Eviolite
Ability: Hustle
Level: 5
EVs: 196 Spd / 196 Atk / 116 SDef
Jolly Nature
- Tailwind
- Endeavor
- String Shot
- Bug Bite


It is silly, yes, but it is very fun. Tailwind is amazing in Doubles, while Endeavor is for when it is at low health. String Shot hits both targets this Gen, while making their Speed go down by 2, which is huge. Bug Bite is the last move, it really has nothing else. It can hit somewhat hard with Hustle Bug Bite getting nice coverage around the tier, while just being a STAB move really. The issue with Combee is that it doesn't have good Defense, at all. It also is weak to Rock Slide. Or you could just run Sewaddle:

Sewaddle @ Eviolite
Ability: Overcoat
Level: 5
EVs: 196 Def / 196 SDef / 116 SAtk
Bold Nature
- Sticky Web
- String Shot
- Synthesis
- Giga Drain

I run Combee because I feel like people will just disregard it. But yeah, both are pretty shitty. Would anyone care to battle right now?

 

[champetero]

Well Audiosurfer hosted a LC doubles today and i managed to get 4th :).This was my first time playing LC doubles(Damn the EV spreads are hard ;-;)

The thing that caught my eyes was that most people were using sun teams.Mainly Totemo(damn you for kicking me out of the tournament) and Iliketrains11, who got 3rd place and 1st place respectively.Just like normal smogon doubles sun seems to be the more common weather.Pawniard was also very common in fact it was like the third most used pokemon,while intimidate wasn't too common moves that could drop a stat like muddy water activated a lot vs pawniard.Something else that surprised me was that not many murkrow's were use,he is like the thundurus of LC doubles providing priority T-wave and taunt.