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CAP 1 Smogon's First "Create a Pokemon": Poll 4

Discussion in 'CAP Process Archive' started by Cooper, Dec 13, 2007.


What should the Base Stat Total of our new pokemon be?

Poll closed Dec 16, 2007.
  1. 600

    31 vote(s)
  2. 580-599

    21 vote(s)
  3. 560-579

    32 vote(s)
  4. 540-559

    65 vote(s)
  5. 520-539

    61 vote(s)
  6. 500-519

    9 vote(s)
  7. 480-499

    5 vote(s)
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  1. Rumpelstiltskin


    Nov 7, 2007
    I voted 520-539 (really for 525), because it can still have good stat distribution (most eeveelutions), and we can give it magic guard as an ability to cover the stealth rock weakness.

    75/105/50/120/50/125 might work
  2. eric the espeon

    eric the espeon maybe I just misunderstood
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Aug 7, 2007
    rumpelstiltskin: try giveing it more than paper defences/a bit less speed more like
  3. Asch


    Jun 6, 2007
    I voted for 580-599. 5/160/5/200/5/205 :D
  4. eric the espeon

    eric the espeon maybe I just misunderstood
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Aug 7, 2007
    do you realy want a pokemon thats faster than deoyxs speed, has eneugh attck to easily 1ko blissy with a sp.attck and probably 1ko skarm with a super effective phy.attck. This would be absurdly broken even in ubers.
    If your post was not a joke please leave this thread to those who want a balenced pokemon.
  5. Asch


    Jun 6, 2007
    That was a joke, yes. Although I do believe I voted a little too high, 560 would probably be better.
  6. Roen


    Nov 15, 2007
    Since Yanmega has the highest base stat total of the Bugs (515), I voted for 500-519 for this Bug. I don't think Bugs need that high of a total.
  7. LickThePaint


    Oct 24, 2007
    I voted 540-559 'Cause it gets to be fairly quick, hit hard and still have Shedinja defenses.
    Something like

    550 on the nose
  8. COalex


    Jan 3, 2007
  9. DougJustDoug

    DougJustDoug Knows the great enthusiasms
    is a member of the Site Staffis an Artistis a Programmeris a CAP Contributoris an Administratoris a Battle Server Admin Alumnusis a Live Chat Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
    CAP Leader

    Jun 26, 2007
    I voted for 550, since that's the highest total that seems to have a chance to win. If 530 wins, that's fine too. It's all in the distribution anyway. That's really where the discussion will be interesting. However...

    (tl;dr follows, since no one else is really making a discussion out of this poll)

    I think it's funny that no one is voting for 580-600. But, it seems like everyone's team looks like this: Salamence, Garchomp, Tyranitar, Metagross, Cresselia, and Blissey. People lean SO HARD on the pokemon with the big stat lines. It doesn't matter if their team concept sucks and they can get pwned by anyone with half a brain and half the BST.

    Who wants to lead with a 515 BST Yanmega hoping to flinch with a 75BP Air Slash? When you can throw a 600 BST Salamence out there to drop a 140BP Draco Meteor on their ass, cut their attack with Intimidate, and after Mence's impressive 110 base Sp Attack drops through the floor, you can follow up with any number of big-BP physical moves powered by a staggering 135 base Attack! Yeah right.. Yanmega ftw.

    But, hey, everyone plays Blissey, right? And she's only 540 BST.

    So, by all means, let's act like we don't need any more 600 BST pokemon. Total stats don't matter, right?

    If it didn't matter, all those 600 BST pokemon wouldn't be so incredibly OU. Why do you think we have to deal with stuff like SpecsMence and Boah? It's not because the pokemon is geared for that. It's because somebody woke up and noticed that even though these pokemon are basically physical hitters, when you spread around 600 stat points, it hard NOT to have a pretty damn good Sp Attack as well. And it's not like these things are glass cannons either. Defensively, Tar speaks for itself. But, Salamence, the non-wall of the 600 BST crew, is still packing 95 base HP, which is only slightly below the commonly accepted line for a "damage sponge" designation (creating 100HP subs and whatnot).

    If 580-plus was relegated to Ubers, then it would be a different story. But these pokemon are all over the place in OU play. Yes, they can be countered. But, good grief, the stats alone are a very big deal. Garchomp is a freakishly powerful pokemon. And it's not because it has a movepool to die for. Heck, most people only use 3 slots on the damn thing. What's the difference between Chomp and Flygon? (Well, lots of things, actually) I guarantee if you gave Flygon those extra 80 BST that Garchomp got -- Flygon sure as hell wouldn't be BL anymore. And I don't care where you put the extra BST. Put 80 more BST on Flygon in any combination of stats and that pokemon would shoot to the top of the OU ranks.

    Yes, yes - I realize the movepools and abilities make this a difficult comparison (Chomp vs Flygon). But, my point is this - Base Stat Totals matter a whole, whole lot. And everyone out there voting for these 530-550 stat lines are a bit hypocritical considering that everybody runs so many 580-600 BST pokes on their teams.

    Personally, I like pokemon with more "purpose". I voted for 550, but I actually think the pokemon would be more "interesting" at 520. Unfortunately, if this has any hope of being an OU pokemon, it has to have a big stat line to back it up. It doesn't have to be OU btw. But I hope it is -- just my opinion.

    If I honestly thought 580 had a chance to win, I would have voted for it.
  10. dende5416


    Nov 13, 2007
    540-559 for me. It could use the extra power with not one but two 4x weaknesses.Especially since fire is a staple of wall killing power (forretress and skarmory)
  11. eric the espeon

    eric the espeon maybe I just misunderstood
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Aug 7, 2007
    ice is also good at wall killing (hipodon, gliscor, nutral on skarm) and bug is not bad (cressy, nutral on zong) i think that 520-539 would be sure to be balenced but 540-559 will probably be ok so long as it dosent have 120 speed and attcks.
  12. Deck Knight

    Deck Knight RIP DryPass Vaporeon
    is a Forum Moderatoris a CAP Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
    CAP Head Mod

    May 27, 2005
    540-559, because Ice/Bug blows as a type defensively and needs the stats to back it up. Magcargo would be great if it was sweeper oriented and had a good rock special STAB. The only reason Psychics go anywhere is when the have Base 600 stats, Steel typing, good defenses to negate the Bug and Dark weaknesses, or a useful secondary STAB and big movepool (see: Starmie, Slowbro).

    Lets face it folks, This Ice/Bug is gonna need some help from stats to deal with quite possibly the nastiest 4x weaknesses in the game (fire and rock).

    *X used Quick Attack.

    Pokemon Fainted.

  13. Shelcario


    Nov 25, 2007
    i voted for 580-599 for to be really strong.
  14. Automatic


    Sep 10, 2007
    I'm all for 535. It's good enough for Crobat!
  15. Blln


    Mar 19, 2007
    I think around 535 or 540 should be good enough. I can see it having stats sort of similar to infernape, maybe something like 70 HP / 105 Atk / 70 Def / 110 SAtk / 70 SDef / 115 Spd, so pretty much a slightly faster, slightly stronger Infernape with shittier STABs and a 4x Stealth Rock
  16. firewater


    Dec 17, 2006
    580-599- It is owned by a lot of stuff, and to be spectacular or even useable it needs a bit of stat boosts to work

    Like this-


    - that seems good enough, besides what bugs have better defenses than this except Scizor/Fortress?
  17. Silver610


    Jul 1, 2007

    Because if you take the time to make a poke, might as well make it worth-while
  18. Suburvia


    Sep 9, 2007
    I voted 520-539. So long as it has the stats in the right places, it shouldn't need a huge BST. I mean, look at Infernape! His defences are. . . Well, I wouldn't exactly call them defences, but he's still very OU and very devastating. Something along the lines of. . . (HP/Attack/Defence/Special Attack/Special Defence/Speed)


    Essentially Azelf with speed and the attack stats switched. With a movepool to support it, the thing could be devastating; Infernape on steroids. Faster, stronger. . . It needs all the power it can get with such atrocious typing.

    Also, imagine it with Snow Warning. Dual 120 Base STABS in Megahorn and 100% accurate Blizzard.
  19. Jibaku

    Jibaku Who let marco in here????
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Team Rater Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Live Chat Contributor Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Champion

    Dec 13, 2005
    540-559 here.
  20. rkatzam


    Sep 6, 2007

    With that horrible typing, it needs all the power it can get. <<;
  21. Amandabynes


    Aug 26, 2007
    I already said what i voted for but here is my own weird distribution.

    HP = 75
    ATK = 108
    DEF = 65
    SPATK = 115
    SPDEF = 45
    SPD = 118
    stat total = 526

    It's speed is so it can out speed special threats like Gengar, Starmie but still has to worry about Alakazam and Jolteon.
  22. TaiwaneseDude


    Jul 25, 2007
    540-549. :D

    Btw, next time, you should give examples of Pokemon that are in that current range, it could help voters decide more easily.
  23. astrohawke


    Jul 19, 2007
    You guys seriously think this thing is gonna be OU material if it doesn't have 600 BST?

    Think about what we use for OU these days. Basically anything that's 4x weak to SR is immediately excluded from teams. There are exceptions like yanmega but it's got one hell of a redeeming ability and movepool. Even then it's not seen that much as most people are hesitant to include it in their team because of the SR weak.

    I also can't think of a single OU pokemon other than rhyperior that has 2 4x weaknesses. As we've seen, rhyperior usage has dropped probably because of it. But then rhyperior at least has solid rock to try to help it, grass also being not a very common type and having decent stat distributions (defensively bulky with strongest EQ and second strongest SE in OU and all).

    Without at least some redeeming factor like an insanely good ability, uber level stat distributions (deoxys-A anyone?) or at the least highest possible OU base stats, I really don't see this being OU material. UU is probably pushing it too as the UU pokemon with 2 4x weaks are all rock/steel which at least isn't 4x weak to SR.

    EDIT: Fuck I also just realized this would be the first thing to take 75% upon switch in with SR and Spikes fully set up. A new low for pokemon altogether. There's probably a reason gamefreak didn't make a typing like this. It would get destroyed just switching in.

    Bug/Ice mix sweeper switches in.
    Stealth rock does 50%.
    Spikes does 25%.
    Rattata used quick attack.
    Bug/Ice mix sweeper loses 25% of its HP.
    Bug/Ice mix sweeper faint.
  24. Mario With Lasers

    Mario With Lasers Self-proclaimed DEAD king
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnus

    Nov 15, 2006
    60/115/60/115/60/124. Total 534 (Infernape's). Ice Beam, Bug Buzz, Discharge, X-Scissor, Brick Break, Roost, Reversal, Focus Blast, Baton Pass, Swords Dance, Agility, Nasty Plot, Ice-Type Flash Fire/Levitate/Ice Shell.

    I think it's OU material.
  25. Mood4food77


    Aug 8, 2007
    give it magic gaurd and it'll be fine

    give it a move to up both attacks, give it high speed, decent defenses, and we have ourselves an OU poke

    520-539 is what it needs

    i mean, it can have below 500 BST, like slowbro, and still be good
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