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So its been a while since Ive done this

Discussion in 'BW Other Teams' started by JeffreyLebowski, Jan 6, 2013.

  1. JeffreyLebowski

    JeffreyLebowski

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2009
    Messages:
    355
    So I used to do wifi a lot. If you know me, its from there. But lately I've been on Pokemon Showdown. I just jumped into a new metagame, and I dont really know the threats, I just sort of have been coasting on what I learned about battling in general from last gen.

    So here's the team I've been using lately. Its been giving me pretty good returns. I may or may not change it based on what is suggested, but I want to see what ideas people might come up with

    [​IMG]
    Timid @[​IMG]
    Pressure
    252 Sp Att| 252 Speed| 4 Sp Def
    Fire Blast|Hurricane|Hidden Power [​IMG]|U Turn

    So there's this set, which I loved last gen with all my heart and soul. Scarf Moltres makes a half way good lead, as it can put pressure on immediately or it can scout with u turn. In the late game i can sweep quasi reliably as well, and although getting rid of rocks , she can revenge kill mid-game as well. I was thinking about replacing her with a banded Entei, but i like the scouting utility of U turn too much. Also, replacing her would make me ground week. In any case, she is the offensive core of my Team.

    [​IMG]
    Bold @ [​IMG]
    Iron Barbs
    252 Hp|252 Def| 4 Sp Def
    Thunderwave|Protect|Leech seed|Spikes

    Its amazing I dont see more of these, because this thing is damned useful. It takes a while to learn how to use properly though. The number of mons that carry fighting or fire moves specifically to hurt this guy is staggering. He is also set up bait for sweepers, particularly those that employ substitute, so caution and scouting is needed. But he scoffs at half the metagame, and synergies immensely well with Moltres. He's EV'ed to tank physical hits, but i may change that. He is the defensive core my team.

    [​IMG]
    Adamant@[IMG]http://cdn.bulbagarden.net/upload/9/92/Bag_Life_Orb_Sprite.png[/IMG]
    Torrent
    252 HP|252 Att|4 Speed
    Swords Dance|Aqua Jet|Waterfall|Return

    Pretty standard set, although I like the DD set more. I admit that this set is more useful and easier to use. Gatr has got the bulk and the stopping power, and although it may not seem like it, i was worried when building this team i was not packing enough offense. This set has served me well.

    [​IMG]
    Modest@[IMG]http://cdn.bulbagarden.net/upload/9/92/Bag_Life_Orb_Sprite.png[/IMG]
    Sheer Force
    96 Hp|244 Sp Att|196 Speed
    Stealth Rock|Earth Power|Fire Blast|Thunderbolt

    The EVs probably look weird. I'm not entirely sure what they accomplish, I found them on the boards here somewhere. I'm honestly not satisfied with her; she dies extremely easily, doesn't outspeed anything, and always leaves things at ~20 percent or so. I just picked her because i wanted another special attacker with an electric immunity and SR. I was wondering if there's a bulkier variant that doesn't give up that much attacking prowess. I was also thinking about subbing in a rhydon, but alot of electric types attack on the special side, like magnetic and galvantula. I guess if i did that i could shift ferrothorn's EVs to the special side, but i would still be more vulnerable to special electric types.

    [​IMG]
    Careful@[IMG]http://cdn.bulbagarden.net/upload/c/cb/Bag_Choice_Band_Sprite.png[/IMG]
    Pressure
    252 HP|252 Sp Def|4 Att
    Sucker Punch|Trick|Will o wisp|Pain Split

    Setting up hazards is long hard difficult work, so its vital I keep them. Enter my spinblocker. Tomb also functions as a full stop to Slowking, a vital thing to have considering how he stops the rest of my team cold. Tricking choice bands has proven to be an immensely helpful in stopping walls and other mons cold (like sygilglyph...) in their tracks. Tomb often finds himself as least valuable player, often getting sacked for death or sleep fodder as needed, particularly after their rapid spinner is gone. But that's okay. Overall, I am supremely pleased with his performance.

    His EVs are bugging me, though. I'm not sure if i should split them or how. Any suggestions are helpful

    [​IMG]
    Jolly@[IMG]http://cdn.bulbagarden.net/upload/9/92/Bag_Life_Orb_Sprite.png[/IMG]
    Limber
    252 Att|252 Speed|4 HP
    Close Combat|Sucker Punch|Stone Edge|Rapid Spin

    Hitmonlee has gone through the most changes as I play with this team. Honestly, if i could get Mach Punch and Rapid Spin on the same move set, I would. I know its possible. Come on, Zariel, get on that. Anyways, Lee is my spinner. Thats its main purpose and it does it well. It also beats the tar out of things very admirably as well. Ive been debating between Limber/ CC and Reckless HJK for a while now. Im also wondering what to do with his move set also.

    So anyways, this is the team I've been playing with. Any suggestions or improvements are welcome. Im sorry if this is rather dry, its like three in the morning
  2. col49

    col49 what.
    is a Contributor to Smogon
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2011
    Messages:
    1,059
    Hey JeffreyLebowski, cool team =) Initially I'm always a bit skeptical of any team packing Choice Scarf Moltres, but it seems your team really makes it work, so props on that.

    One of my biggest concerns however is that Hitmonlee isn't an aggressive enough spinner to support Moltres. Most teams dedicated to keeping hazards up will be packing a Ghost-type to spin-block, and such teams will be even more adamant about doing so when they see Moltres. If that's the case, Pokemon such as Hitmonlee will have a difficult time playing around them. However, I feel as though a fairly simple fix could change this: switch out Feraligatr for Kabutops. Though Kabutops is less bulky than Feraligatr, secondary Rock typing is very helpful offensively, allowing it to serve similarly as a late-game sweeper, while also being able to spin well against the Ghost-types of the tier! Here would be my proposed set:
    Show Hide
    [​IMG]
    Kabutops @ Life Orb
    Trait: Weak Armor
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 HP
    Adamant Nature
    - Rapid Spin
    - Stone Edge
    - Aqua Jet
    - Swords Dance


    With Kabutops serving as a spinner, Hitmonlee's team-slot can be put to work supporting your team. Considering your aforementioned Ground weakness, as well as your apparent Slowking issues, I would suggest tinkering around with SubCM Uxie. Uxie offers your team a solid answer to Ground-type attacks when SR is up, as well as a nice secondary win condition that can take advantage of the hazard support this team provides. Moreover, Pokemon such as Slowking are easy set-up fodder for this set. For reference, here's the set:
    Show Hide
    [​IMG]
    Uxie @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 224 Spd / 188 SAtk / 96 HP
    Timid Nature
    - Calm Mind
    - Psychic
    - Thunderbolt
    - Substitute


    I really feel as though Ferroseed would appreciate Gyro Ball more so than it does Protect (obviously running Relaxed w/0 Speed IVs). As nice as Protect is for gaining a little extra Leech Seed recovery, Ferroseed becomes set-up bait for way too many Pokemon without an attacking move, and anything with Taunt completely shuts it down (albeit this mostly only applies to Drapion, but it does seem moderately threatening to your team if given the chance to set up).

    I'm not all too sure what Nidoqueen's EVs are meant to accomplish, but if you want a bulky spread you could try a spread of 112 HP / 228 SpA / 168 Spe. 168 Speeds allows Nidoqueen to outpace Base 55 Speed Pokemon such as Crawdaunt, and the HP investment allows it to more comfortably take on Electric-types such Manetric and Galvantula.

    In terms of your Spiritomb, I feel a more powerful overall Sucker Punch outweighs the utility of a singular Trick in terms of sheer usefulness, especially when considering you have to remain choice-locked into moves like Will-O-Wisp early-game before Tricking off your Band. That being said, I feel as though a Blackglasses All-Out Attacker variant might suit your team a bit better. Between Uxie and Ferroseed, I don't feel as though Spiritomb is as pressured to check Psychic- and Ghost-types as it once was, and the extra attacking power you receive with an Adamant nature and max investment is very useful in checking neutral targets such as Lilligant. Moreover, the ability to feign the Choice Band set is also quite useful, as it can cripple several common Dark- and Steel-type switch-ins with Will-o-Wisp.

    tl;dr:
    Show Hide
    [​IMG]
    • Protect --> Gyro Ball
    • Bold --> Relaxed
    • 0 Speed IVs

    [​IMG] ---> [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    • 96 HP / 244 SpA / 196 Spe ---> 112 HP / 228 SpA / 168 Spe

    [​IMG]
    • Choice Band ---> Blackglasses
    • Careful ---> Adamant
    • 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD ---> 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe
    • Pain Split / Trick ---> Pursuit / Shadow Sneak

    [​IMG] ---> [​IMG]


    Anywho, I hope my comments were of use to you, good luck in the future :)
  3. Yonko7

    Yonko7 Guns make you stupid. Duct tape makes you smart.
    is a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2012
    Messages:
    651
    Hiya Jeff, this a is a nice team that seems utilizes a sweep from Scarf Moltres end-game.

    First, the suggestions that col49 gave are top notch! I'm basing my rate with col49's suggestions.

    So the the team I'm looking at is: Moltres / Ferroseed / Kabutops / Nidoqueen / Spiritomb / Uxie

    The biggest problem I see is that Ferroseed doesn't really match your team well in terms of offenses. It does a great job at setting up Spikes to weaken the opposing team, but doesn't nothing else but spread paralysis and mediocre Gyro Balls. Also, with everything having a Fire-type attack to deal with Escavalier, means Ferroseed can be surprise KOed by something.

    The team also has a problem with other offensive teams that are looking to set up Spikes as well, particularly teams that use Smeargle to get Spikes up. Your team gets slept by Spore, and then gets 2 layers of Spikes on you if your lucky. Sure you can spin, but the damage by then will most likely have already happened.

    To help solve these problems, I suggest Crustle. Shell Smash Crustle with Lum Berry is a great stop to Smeargle, and a great way to set up Spikes for the team, while also being a great offensive presence that can weaken Lanturn for your eventual Moltres sweep. It also starts your team off on the right foot, as your opponent is already on their backfoot. Also, Ferroseed is setup bait for Pokemon that can avoid Thunder Wave and doesn't care for Gyro Ball like SubDD Crawdaunt and Substitute Bouffalant, and you don't want to face Pokemon like that behind a Substitute, because you will most likely lose something. With the switch, you do lose defensive Pokemon, but your team isn't meant to take too many hits anyway; it wants to pound the opponent down.

    Crustle (open)

    [​IMG]
    Crustle@Lum Berry
    Adamant | Sturdy
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
    -Shell Smash
    -Spikes
    -Rock Blast
    -X-Scissor


    Hope I helped n.n

    Good Luck~
  4. JeffreyLebowski

    JeffreyLebowski

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2009
    Messages:
    355
    Actually, Ferroseed has been giving me insane returns in spite of losing momentum. Its my main water resist, and also completely walls pokemon that otherwise destroy me, like Lanturn. Its really nice to have a near full stop to all bulky waters. Ive played against crustle and I am utterly unimpressed. I also haven't tried gyroball over protect on seed, either. Its not taunt I fear when seed comes in. I've only encountered one common taunter on the ladder, aerodactyl, who is annoying but not unkillable.

    Ive tried the blackglasses spiritomb and i was much less than impressed, honestly. The things that i count on him to deal with, namely bulky psychics, were still able to function (Slowking burned it, for instance, uxie still set up rocks and u turned, sygilglyph burned him and set up, etc). I did like the extra punch from the attack EVs, though.

    The main threat I noticed I cant deal with is a normal type attacker with substitute. Hes immune to shadow sneak, sits behind a sub so ferro cant hit it, and uses a boosting move so it doesn't give a shit about sucker punch. At that point I AM losing something. I started running shadow sneak/ pursuit/ wisp/ trick on tomb, but i feel like pursuit is a wasted moveslot and id be better served with pain split against the bulky pokemon i count on tomb to check. In general I feel Tomb needs 252 more EVs and an extra move slot.

    One thing I was thinking about was using a special tomb with specs, which would let me run dark pulse as his sole attack (along split/trick/wisp). I would miss the priority dearly though, as that would leave me depending on tops an awful lot for spin and aqua jet.

    I am also not happy with Nidoqueen. I use her for rocks, fight resist and ground immunity. Her attacks always leave an opponent low but not dead, and she hasn't enough speed to get one last attack off. Her bulk leaves something to be desired also. She fits the bill though for what i need though.

    I do want to close out on a positive note: SubCM uxie is the most fun sweeper I have ever used. He wrecks face, takes hits well, and is awesome. I will now spread his gospel. Kabutops is also an insane fit as well.

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