Hi, I hope I'm posting this in the right spot.
After playing pokemonshowdown a lot, I've decided I'm going to try constructing my own mod for it. This mod will probably get finished soon (though likely not in the immediate future [and by finished, I mean in a testable/playable state]), but I understand it may end up being a total waste of time. I intend it to be fun for me, however. Whether it catches on and is popular/approved by Smogon is another idea, but I wanted some community feedback about the idea before I delve into it further.
Firstly, I don't know javascript. I'm a programmer, however. I get php, mysql, java, c++, et cetera. So, javascript may be another ballgame all together, but I can follow the source code well enough and will figure it out through enough trial and error... So basically, I'm saying I'm qualified to produce and work out the kinks of this idea of mine, so your feedback is helpful in sorting out the other end of the project, which may actually prove to be the actual rough work.
The idea is simple: A mod for pokemon showdown that 'eliminates' all the basic tiers except Uber and OU. Basically, this mod will 'balance' pokemon so that there are only two kinds of pokemon: Good pokemon and "Too Good" pokemon. "Too Good" pokemon, such as Mewtwo, will not be playable-- but I'll get into that in a moment.
The spirit of this mod is to let everyone use their favorite not-overpowered pokemon in battle. To make teams that are wacky and competitively viable. Do you like Kricketune? What about Seaking? Well, it's perfectly viable now to use them on a team if you know what you're doing. That's the spirit of this mod: Buff NU/UU/RU/NFE pokemon to OU. Yes, even NFE. All pokemon are now 'spiritually' overused.
If a pokemon in standard play is promoted to ubers, it shall be kicked out of this mod. Uber pokemon have no place here, because uber pokemon are simply "too good". I don't want a mod where every pokemon can qualify as an "uber" pokemon and I don't want to nerf all uber pokemon to non-uber status. That's not fun. People get this "feeling" when they use Lugia or Mewtwo and it makes no sense to disrupt that feeling.
To get a better idea how this mod will work, I'm laying down ten ground rules of design.
#1 All non-Ubers pokemon are to be competitively viable.
(*)This does not mean all pokemon are created the same
(*)This does not mean all pokemon are all equally useful
(*)This does not mean all pokemon should be able to do everything
What it does mean, is that every non-Ubers pokemon should have a competitive niche.
#2 I will never nerf pokemon to achieve balance.
Exactly as it says, I will never nerf a pokemon to make others competitively viable. If a pokemon is in OU or lower, it will never lose moves, stats, or (useful [runaway and illuminate don't count here]) abilities. If a pokemon is "too good" but "not too good for uber" then I'll find a set of pokemon and design them to "hard counter" that pokemon so that there exists a competitive check for this "too good non uber pokemon". That's an extreme case and something I'm envisioning to be further ahead; it's too early to deeply consider that case.
#3 I will refrain from balancing pokemon using cheap algorithms.
This just doesn't work. You can't make pokemon occupy niches if you give them +15 to all stats across the board. It just doesn't work, it only fixes maybe a few pokemon and just introduces more problems in general. All changes here are hand-crafted.
#4 I will refrain from balancing pokemon using singular, cheap or goofy, or anti-aesthetic mechanisms.
I'm not going to balance Farfetch'd by giving him +100 to his base attack stat. I'm not going to give Spinda 100 in all base stats. I'm not going to suddenly make Armaldo the fastest pokemon in the game. I'm not going to give Surskit flamethrower - because these ideas just don't make any aesthetic sense, why would Surskit breathe fire? Why would Armaldo be fast? Granted, Gamefreak HAS done nonsensical things like this (ie Raticate DOES learn Thunder but DOES NOT learn Thunder Fang), but I will refrain from doing them.
#5 I will balance pokemon using a combination of 1) adding new abilities (up to a max of four including their hidden ability) or replacing awful abilities (like run away or pick up) 2) adding moves to a pokemon's move pool 3) improving base stats where appropriate 4) introducing new abilities or (perhaps species-specific) hold items.
(*)In the case of 2), I will seldom add unintuitive move additions
(*)In the case of 3), I will seldom boost a pokemon's base speed (abilities like speed boost will have to suffice), because I believe a good mod/metagame for this project is one where players can easily anticipate and predict what their opponent will do. If pokemon all now have new base speeds, predicting who goes first on a turn could become simply too problematic and un-fun. It's not fun if Beedrill pulls some asspull you couldn't predict because you haven't memorized this project and I have no intentions of creating or maintaining or asking players of this mod to read a wiki of patch note changes (though I will provide a patch note list for clarity).
(*)In the case of 4), I will very seldom do this, to prevent the associated QA work, but for some pokemon, this may be ultimately necessary. I will not introduce new types or game mechanics (like a new status effect), in order to retain the intuitiveness of this mod.
#6 I will revert changes this mod introduces to pokemon in various circumstances. #2 does not prevent me from nerfing pokemon if the nerfs involve rolling back changes I have made myself.
#7 NFE balance takes a lower priority to FE pokemon. Raichu's competitive viability has a higher priority than Pikachu, whose priority precedes Pichu. It may be completely impossible to make all NFE pokemon competitively viable, but that's the goal of this project, even if it may not be entirely attainable.
#8 Pokemon will retain their spirit. This means my approach to balancing Farfetch'd may involve only small stat increases with a large emphasis on items, abilities, and move pool additions (or intended synergies). Farfetch'd may become some sort of crit-based glass cannon, with perhaps a high attack stat, and perhaps a higher SpA and HP stat. I'm unsure exactly at the moment, but in general, the goal is not to make every pokemon approach 600 BST. Some pokemon should have poorer overall stats than others in exchange for more varied move pools or abilities, or interesting synergies and strategies.
#9 I will not take favorites. Although I have my fair share of favorite pokemon, this is less about making my favorites viable and more about making everyone's favorite pokemon viable. For instance, I love doing monobug teams in OU, and this mod will certainly involve a lot of changes to bugs, since there are so many unusable ones, but I'm not being biased by introducing these changes - Gamefreak just hates bugs.
#10 I will try to make changes as consistent as possible. I will provide my logic behind changes when I make them. This is a solo project, I don't want anyone else directly helping, but I will be sure to invite community involvement if this idea of mine is well-received. You all will (hopefully) be playing this thing, after all.
===
So, with all these rules and things laid out, the purpose of this thread is to... well, be entertaining, if nothing else. I want to hear about everyone's favorite not-OU, not-Uber pokemon. If you have just one, great, but don't stop there if you have more. Please follow the following form:
1. Name of favorite non-OU pokemon.
2. Do you use this pokemon in OU?
3. How do you feel about this pokemon? Does it belong in a tier other than the one it's in? Do you think it's already good, but people maybe don't realize it? Why do you like this pokemon? What do you feel about it? Are you frustrated with it? Do you still find delight in it? Why do you like or dislike it?
4. What pokemon do you feel this pokemon is good against? Bad against? What pokemon do you feel has the greatest impact in preventing or enhancing is usage rate?
5. If you were to improve it, how would you? Please bear in mind the rules above when suggesting improvements to this pokemon.
Also, please mention in your post whether you play a lot of OU, UU, etc. What's your playstyle like?
If you think this project is a dumb idea or have other comments too, I'm not going to stop you from voicing them. I'll probably just ignore negative comments like that though.
===
One of the first things I've done is write a few programs to parse the changes I've made to the base game and print them in a more manageable format. The following pastebin for instance, contains the very first "super rough" changes I've made to the base.
http://pastebin.com/ZZ4Zprym
They are super rough, some half-baked ideas that will likely not stay the same, but maybe you can see my thought processes and iterate on them. For instance Speed Boost Beedrill is a potentially good way to make him viable, but then... how does he compete with Ninjask and Scolipede? Isn't he just an inferior version of one of those? Doesn't giving him speed boost dilute the 'uniqueness' of that ability? Does it fit his physical characteristics?
My other idea is - hey, Slaking is almost amazing. What if we gave him Slow Start instead of Truant? Could that make him viable? Would normalize work? It'd make him easy to wall, but a huge threat potentially, maybe too good.
The NFEs tend to have stronger abilities than their evolved forms. This is intentional, though an idea I'll definitely iterate on. Consider the pastebin a very rough draft of ability ideas. That's why I'm really looking for some input from users.
After playing pokemonshowdown a lot, I've decided I'm going to try constructing my own mod for it. This mod will probably get finished soon (though likely not in the immediate future [and by finished, I mean in a testable/playable state]), but I understand it may end up being a total waste of time. I intend it to be fun for me, however. Whether it catches on and is popular/approved by Smogon is another idea, but I wanted some community feedback about the idea before I delve into it further.
Firstly, I don't know javascript. I'm a programmer, however. I get php, mysql, java, c++, et cetera. So, javascript may be another ballgame all together, but I can follow the source code well enough and will figure it out through enough trial and error... So basically, I'm saying I'm qualified to produce and work out the kinks of this idea of mine, so your feedback is helpful in sorting out the other end of the project, which may actually prove to be the actual rough work.
The idea is simple: A mod for pokemon showdown that 'eliminates' all the basic tiers except Uber and OU. Basically, this mod will 'balance' pokemon so that there are only two kinds of pokemon: Good pokemon and "Too Good" pokemon. "Too Good" pokemon, such as Mewtwo, will not be playable-- but I'll get into that in a moment.
The spirit of this mod is to let everyone use their favorite not-overpowered pokemon in battle. To make teams that are wacky and competitively viable. Do you like Kricketune? What about Seaking? Well, it's perfectly viable now to use them on a team if you know what you're doing. That's the spirit of this mod: Buff NU/UU/RU/NFE pokemon to OU. Yes, even NFE. All pokemon are now 'spiritually' overused.
If a pokemon in standard play is promoted to ubers, it shall be kicked out of this mod. Uber pokemon have no place here, because uber pokemon are simply "too good". I don't want a mod where every pokemon can qualify as an "uber" pokemon and I don't want to nerf all uber pokemon to non-uber status. That's not fun. People get this "feeling" when they use Lugia or Mewtwo and it makes no sense to disrupt that feeling.
To get a better idea how this mod will work, I'm laying down ten ground rules of design.
#1 All non-Ubers pokemon are to be competitively viable.
(*)This does not mean all pokemon are created the same
(*)This does not mean all pokemon are all equally useful
(*)This does not mean all pokemon should be able to do everything
What it does mean, is that every non-Ubers pokemon should have a competitive niche.
#2 I will never nerf pokemon to achieve balance.
Exactly as it says, I will never nerf a pokemon to make others competitively viable. If a pokemon is in OU or lower, it will never lose moves, stats, or (useful [runaway and illuminate don't count here]) abilities. If a pokemon is "too good" but "not too good for uber" then I'll find a set of pokemon and design them to "hard counter" that pokemon so that there exists a competitive check for this "too good non uber pokemon". That's an extreme case and something I'm envisioning to be further ahead; it's too early to deeply consider that case.
#3 I will refrain from balancing pokemon using cheap algorithms.
This just doesn't work. You can't make pokemon occupy niches if you give them +15 to all stats across the board. It just doesn't work, it only fixes maybe a few pokemon and just introduces more problems in general. All changes here are hand-crafted.
#4 I will refrain from balancing pokemon using singular, cheap or goofy, or anti-aesthetic mechanisms.
I'm not going to balance Farfetch'd by giving him +100 to his base attack stat. I'm not going to give Spinda 100 in all base stats. I'm not going to suddenly make Armaldo the fastest pokemon in the game. I'm not going to give Surskit flamethrower - because these ideas just don't make any aesthetic sense, why would Surskit breathe fire? Why would Armaldo be fast? Granted, Gamefreak HAS done nonsensical things like this (ie Raticate DOES learn Thunder but DOES NOT learn Thunder Fang), but I will refrain from doing them.
#5 I will balance pokemon using a combination of 1) adding new abilities (up to a max of four including their hidden ability) or replacing awful abilities (like run away or pick up) 2) adding moves to a pokemon's move pool 3) improving base stats where appropriate 4) introducing new abilities or (perhaps species-specific) hold items.
(*)In the case of 2), I will seldom add unintuitive move additions
(*)In the case of 3), I will seldom boost a pokemon's base speed (abilities like speed boost will have to suffice), because I believe a good mod/metagame for this project is one where players can easily anticipate and predict what their opponent will do. If pokemon all now have new base speeds, predicting who goes first on a turn could become simply too problematic and un-fun. It's not fun if Beedrill pulls some asspull you couldn't predict because you haven't memorized this project and I have no intentions of creating or maintaining or asking players of this mod to read a wiki of patch note changes (though I will provide a patch note list for clarity).
(*)In the case of 4), I will very seldom do this, to prevent the associated QA work, but for some pokemon, this may be ultimately necessary. I will not introduce new types or game mechanics (like a new status effect), in order to retain the intuitiveness of this mod.
#6 I will revert changes this mod introduces to pokemon in various circumstances. #2 does not prevent me from nerfing pokemon if the nerfs involve rolling back changes I have made myself.
#7 NFE balance takes a lower priority to FE pokemon. Raichu's competitive viability has a higher priority than Pikachu, whose priority precedes Pichu. It may be completely impossible to make all NFE pokemon competitively viable, but that's the goal of this project, even if it may not be entirely attainable.
#8 Pokemon will retain their spirit. This means my approach to balancing Farfetch'd may involve only small stat increases with a large emphasis on items, abilities, and move pool additions (or intended synergies). Farfetch'd may become some sort of crit-based glass cannon, with perhaps a high attack stat, and perhaps a higher SpA and HP stat. I'm unsure exactly at the moment, but in general, the goal is not to make every pokemon approach 600 BST. Some pokemon should have poorer overall stats than others in exchange for more varied move pools or abilities, or interesting synergies and strategies.
#9 I will not take favorites. Although I have my fair share of favorite pokemon, this is less about making my favorites viable and more about making everyone's favorite pokemon viable. For instance, I love doing monobug teams in OU, and this mod will certainly involve a lot of changes to bugs, since there are so many unusable ones, but I'm not being biased by introducing these changes - Gamefreak just hates bugs.
#10 I will try to make changes as consistent as possible. I will provide my logic behind changes when I make them. This is a solo project, I don't want anyone else directly helping, but I will be sure to invite community involvement if this idea of mine is well-received. You all will (hopefully) be playing this thing, after all.
===
So, with all these rules and things laid out, the purpose of this thread is to... well, be entertaining, if nothing else. I want to hear about everyone's favorite not-OU, not-Uber pokemon. If you have just one, great, but don't stop there if you have more. Please follow the following form:
1. Name of favorite non-OU pokemon.
2. Do you use this pokemon in OU?
3. How do you feel about this pokemon? Does it belong in a tier other than the one it's in? Do you think it's already good, but people maybe don't realize it? Why do you like this pokemon? What do you feel about it? Are you frustrated with it? Do you still find delight in it? Why do you like or dislike it?
4. What pokemon do you feel this pokemon is good against? Bad against? What pokemon do you feel has the greatest impact in preventing or enhancing is usage rate?
5. If you were to improve it, how would you? Please bear in mind the rules above when suggesting improvements to this pokemon.
Also, please mention in your post whether you play a lot of OU, UU, etc. What's your playstyle like?
If you think this project is a dumb idea or have other comments too, I'm not going to stop you from voicing them. I'll probably just ignore negative comments like that though.
===
One of the first things I've done is write a few programs to parse the changes I've made to the base game and print them in a more manageable format. The following pastebin for instance, contains the very first "super rough" changes I've made to the base.
http://pastebin.com/ZZ4Zprym
They are super rough, some half-baked ideas that will likely not stay the same, but maybe you can see my thought processes and iterate on them. For instance Speed Boost Beedrill is a potentially good way to make him viable, but then... how does he compete with Ninjask and Scolipede? Isn't he just an inferior version of one of those? Doesn't giving him speed boost dilute the 'uniqueness' of that ability? Does it fit his physical characteristics?
My other idea is - hey, Slaking is almost amazing. What if we gave him Slow Start instead of Truant? Could that make him viable? Would normalize work? It'd make him easy to wall, but a huge threat potentially, maybe too good.
The NFEs tend to have stronger abilities than their evolved forms. This is intentional, though an idea I'll definitely iterate on. Consider the pastebin a very rough draft of ability ideas. That's why I'm really looking for some input from users.
Last edited:
