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Some sort of Egg 'RNG' Abuse (Read the first post!)

Discussion in 'Orange Islands' started by Fennekin, Nov 1, 2013.

  1. Mulan15262

    Mulan15262

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    If the ability of the female (or male, if bred with ditto) changes, the ability is no longer locked.
  2. Solieus

    Solieus

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    Just wanted to clarify why gender ratios matter and why they don't appear to be "locked" in: When a gender is picked, it is a number picked from 255, and not just a coin toss male/female. It's called a Gender Value (ref: http://www.psypokes.com/lab/gvguide.php ). Therefore, if the ratio is 50/50, any number from 1-128 or so will be one of the genders, and of the upper one will be Male or vice-versa. If the ratio changes, the gender number that is chosen is probably locked in, but since a different ratio may equate to the product of a different gender, you get a different result.

    ex: Skrelps are 50/50 so I hatched one from two Skrelp parents.
    let's say the egg "rolled" 100, and the lower half is female.
    You switch parents, but now it's a 20/80 split using the new pokemon type. That means that since the number is above 51, the egg will end up being male.

    Anyways, the real ratios and breakpoints, as mine are made up, are on the psypokes website and I don't think there's any way to know this value in-game, so this is just to help people understand why genders will change.
    I don't have any secondary sources for this but I think it makes sense.
    PS: I have been doing this method will all the recent updates and it's still working fine for IVs, at the very least.
    ravendskull likes this.
  3. Mario With Lasers

    Mario With Lasers Self-proclaimed DEAD king
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    I don't think I've seen this question being answered before, but: I know that Masuda shinyness is always locked in, fine. But is the inheritance spread different between Masuda and non-Masuda for the same Egg, much like "monosexual" and "bisexual" spreads?
  4. Selyth

    Selyth

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    Have a little question about gender and ability inheritance. So far I have been using my two Magikarps, one with 3 IV's and one with one IV (not overlapping each other) I have been getting a few RNG's where all 6 stats of the hatched Magikarp will correspond with the female or male Magikarp, is this induced by me having Magikarps with perfect IV's? ANother question, I have been breeding the Magikarps and noticing that when I throw my next pair in because I got the correct spread the gender has always been the same as the Magikarp. I watched this video by JustinFlynn to help me understand this RNG abuse better. My problem however, lies in my Froakie. Upuntil this point I was convinced that the gender, IV spread, and ability (where for example the Scraggy had the second ability Moxie, and bred a Technician Scyther which is also it's second ability) will be locked in after I decline the egg for the first time. My most recent Froakie bred is actually Protean because I used a female Protean Froakie for the new pair but my Magikarps had only the one main ability, Swift Swim... THe Magikarp I previously bred to check the spread I was gonna get for my Froakie was also a female and my Froakie was not. Now I'm starting to question what is actually locked in after declining the egg? Can anyone explain this further to me?
  5. Mackenzie

    Mackenzie

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    I'm not sure about the ability inheritance, but for the gender, I can say that your froakie did not correspond to the gender of the female magikarp because they have different gender ratios. The former being 50:50, the later being 87.5% male:12.5% female.

    iirc, there are explanations on some parts of this thread detailing why such condition occurs.
  6. Mulan15262

    Mulan15262

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    It is due to there being data randomly generated that are then compared to the gender ratio for the pokemon. If you have a 1:1 gender ratio pokemon (like Magikarp), and it hatches as a female, and then the female rate is lowered to 7:1, like a starter, the female 1:1 pokemon may hatch as a male (75% chance) or female (25% chance) when SRed with 7:1 parents.
  7. hippasus

    hippasus

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    Yo need to use a HA parent if you want to check whether a HA will be inherited. Similarly, using HA parents to lock in the spread and switching out for parents who don't possess a HA won't let you pas a hidden ability to the offspring out of nowhere.
  8. Selyth

    Selyth

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    So for example, if I used Scraggy who'm has his HA to check the spread then threw in my Froakie with it's HA the ability would be locked?
  9. hippasus

    hippasus

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    I believe so, yes.
    In fact I suspect using a HA mother is the best way to check anything about which ability is inherited. But I can't confirm that at present.
  10. n01sh0m3

    n01sh0m3

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    I was reading through this and got a little lost after a while. Are traits like gender [assuming it's the same ratio], ability, and coloration locked in before the egg is received or prior to hatching?
  11. Solieus

    Solieus

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    I think as of right now we are assuming that if any variables are "locked" in, it is all happening at the same time.

    ... I am not sure if we have determined *exactly* when that time is, but if you follow the method here and reject the first egg then save, you know that we can lock things in for the following egg as long as you don't save again.
  12. n01sh0m3

    n01sh0m3

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    If I'm understanding this process correctly, I have to reject the egg every time I want a different spread? Here's how I've doing things:

    1. Deposit appropriate test parents, in my case a Ditto and a Togetic(F) with 3 IVs in different places, into the Day Care Center.
    2. Bike around until Day Care Bro has an egg ready.
    3. Reject this egg.
    4. Save immediately after.

    At this point, from what you told me, the variables for the egg (IVs, Gender, Coloration, Abilities, etc.) is fixated for the next egg. No matter how many times I come soft reset, receive this egg, and hatch it, the offspring will always possess those particular variables. If I find the IV spread or variables undesirable, for instance, the gender of my Eevee is Male (Not fond of the whole "guy" Sylveon business), then I:

    5. Soft reset prior to hatching the "2nd" egg.
    6. Bike around until Day Care Bro has "2nd" egg ready.
    7. Reject "2nd" egg.
    8. Save immediately after.
    9. Rinse and repeat until I hatch a female with the desirable traits.

    Are steps 5 and beyond appropriate in maintaining this process? I'm feeling doubtful in myself after having hatched no females in what seems to be a lifetime (or it could be just bad lucl).
  13. Agonist

    Agonist Minutes become hours when you wait, hope and regret
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    Correct.
  14. Solieus

    Solieus

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    That method look correct, and just to note that the finer points on Abilities and Gender are discussed in this thread; there are a few factors that affect things - the best rule of thumb is make sure your "scout" parents are as similar to the end result as possible, including having the same gender ratios, and that the scout mother has her hidden ability if you want to anticipate whether the ultimate offspring will also have the hidden ability.
  15. n01sh0m3

    n01sh0m3

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    Thanks for the heads up. Does that factor also apply for Pokemon with normal abilities, especially those that have two? For instance, if I want to pass down the slot 1 ability, then I'll use a test parent with an ability in slot 1. How would this affect Pokemon that have only one ability and/or no hidden ability?
  16. Solieus

    Solieus

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    From my experience, the ability stays the same (aka scout parents produce kid with ability A, so any possible offspring will retain that ability slot A), but I would like someone else to confirm that before I would swear by it. As a side note, regardless of this, the mother's ability has an 80% chance of being passed on to any egg so I would want to make sure the corresponding moms have the ability (or ability slot for the scouts) I want.
    I would recommend using scouting parents with at least 2 abilities so you can properly scout the abilities since I am not sure what kind of inner-works-RNG nonsense goes behind the scenes.
  17. n01sh0m3

    n01sh0m3

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    Thanks. Don't worry too much about what I asked, I feel like I'm taking you around twists and turns the way I'm asking things. So in the end, for any perfectionist, the perfect setup for performing this pseudo-RNG is to have, from my take, a collection of three pairs of parents, each with the right IV spreads and a pair or each ability. The way I'm doing things so far is that I'm accounting for the Ditto being male and that my non-Ditto test parents will always be female. Of course, this'll only work on a handful of species, but I'm doing it primarily because I want to pass down the PokeBall type (it's like a novelty thing):

    Male X/31/X/31/X/31 Ditto [Atk, SpAtk, Spe]
    Female 31/X/31/X/31/X Gyarados [HP, Def, SpDef] 50:50 (Moxie)
    Female 31/X/31/X/31/X Togetic [HP, Def, SpDef] 87.5:12.5 (Serene Grace)

    and I recently just caught a female 31/X/31/X/31/X Super Luck Togepi after assessing this thread in the past hour. Assuming what we discussed is concrete, that means I would have to find at least another female Togepi with the identical female IV spread but with Hustle, a female Gyarados with the female IV spread but with Intimidate, and another female Pokemon with the female IV spread but with an ability in slot 2/B. I'm really just making this more difficult than it should be...

    EDIT: My bad if this isn't the place for this sort of thing, but if anyone here happens to have a foreign Ditto with spread that I'm using for the one I mentioned above, that would save me a lot of time in generating eggs.
  18. Mieel

    Mieel

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    I have applied this method several times and I can say that:
    The seed will inherit gender, ability and IV spread 100% of the time*

    *considering if you are using scout parents with the same gender ratio and the ability to inherit HA (if you want to breed HA)

    In my experience I find that this method will result to 5IV eggs faster than the traditional way.
    But if you are looking for a certain pkmon to breed into a 5IV, without having a decent pool of 2-3IV ones in the same egg group, you should start breeding traditionally untill you have a decent pool.
  19. BloodNinja2

    BloodNinja2

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    When i breed two magikarps and check the the stats of the offspring, it only every matches half of the parents stats. I've been using a destiny knot, but im not getting 5 guaranteed traits passed down from the Male/Female magikarp.

    Has this method of breeding been patched, or am i just doing something wrong?
  20. Mieel

    Mieel

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    It's hard to say without any details.

    I think it because:
    1. There are overlapping stats, or
    2. Somehow, the IV spread you have determined is wrong (did you take nature and EV's into calculation?
  21. Solieus

    Solieus

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    I think you're getting confused about the destiny knot.
    Each parent can contribute a total of 6 stats, but the destiny knot only picks 5 - the 5 is a combination of randomly picked inheritances from EITHER parent, not one or the other exclusively. So the male could contribute 2, the female 3, or 1 and 4, or 5 and none... that is the ENTIRE point of scouting at all- since the combinations are many, you need to figure out which stats will be passed on so you can pick proper parents.

    People assume it works more like an everstone or power item, but that is not the case.
  22. BloodNinja2

    BloodNinja2

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    Mieel Omg, I feel dumb, I haven't been taking their nature into account. I've made sure they didn't have any overlapping stats.

    I just think it's a bit difficult to tell which stat is the wild card when multiple stats don't match either parent. I think I might need to breed some magikarps from 1 of my neutral natured dittos with an everstone
  23. Mieel

    Mieel

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    If you are following this method correctly, your offspring will have exactly one stat that doesn't match either parent, the destiny knot mechanism will match the other 5.

    What if my offspring has more than 1 random stats? -- Impossible, you must have made a mistake somewhere

    What if my offspring has no random stats? -- There is one, but random stat actually randomized into a stat that accidently matches with one of the parents
  24. Selyth

    Selyth

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    One question about gender RNG... I'm not sure on what scale the system rolls for genders but for example on a scale of 1-100.

    If the daycare RNG's 67 or higher on a 50-50 gender ration mon' and then I switch in a pair of mons' with an 87.5-12.5 ratio the 67 is still in place but since it would need to roll an 87.5 or higher to be a female the new egg will now be a male. IN that case if it rolled a 92 the new egg would be a female.

    Is this correct or if you switch in a new pair of Pok├ęs with an 87.5-12.5 as opposed to 50-50 ratio, it rerolls?
  25. Solieus

    Solieus

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    Selyth, I believe further testing needs to be done on gender ratios but that is the going theory (it doesn't reroll anything)

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