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Some sort of Egg 'RNG' Abuse (Read the first post!)

Discussion in 'Orange Islands' started by Fennekin, Nov 1, 2013.

  1. Fennekin

    Fennekin

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    Before anyone calls me crazy, please, take a second to read the whole thing. I can in fact confirm from personal experiences Egg IVs are generated at some random point before you even receive the egg, and I highly suspect they're set as soon as you dump the parents. After experimenting a while, it seems Japanese players found a way to manipulate inherited stats to match their needs.

    However, saw this post on /vp/. Pardon the rough translation, and thank Anon for this.
    Admittedly, /vp/ may not be the most reliable site around, but let's keep in mind they've posted a lot of Gen VI stuff before anyone else has.

    tl;dr hatch flawless pokémon in gen vi

    Original Post {Japanese}
    Show Hide

    Save/Load abuse to get flawless eggs, need translation.
    例:ストライク

    ズルッグ(特性はなんでも可)@赤い糸
    個体値【4~5】-【28~29】-【14~15】-【30~31】-【18~19】-【8~9】
    ズルッグ(特性2:自信過剰)@変わらずの石
    個体値:【30~31】-【8~9】-【22~23】-【20~21】-【12~13】-【30~31】
    色んな2~3Vの意地ストライクを事前に用意
    3V程度のメタモンを用意

    ①ズルッグを預ける
    ②タマゴができている状態にする
    ③タマゴを拒否する
    ④レポートを書く
    ⑤タマゴができている状態にし、受け取り、割り、トライアルハウスで個体値見る
    個体値が【28~29】【15~16】【22~23】【20~21】【18~19】【8~9】自信過剰(特性2)となった
    からH・D・Sが遺伝、からB・Cが遺伝することがわかる
    必要なAが遺伝しないようなのでリセ

    ⑥ゲーム開始、タマゴができている状態にし、タマゴを拒否する
    ⑦レポートを書く
    ⑧タマゴができている状態にし、受け取る
    ⑨タマゴを割り、トライアルハウスで個体値見る
    個体値が【4~5】【28~29】【22~23】【4-5】【18~19】【30~31】自信過剰(特性2)となった
    からH・A・D、からB・S遺伝していることがわかる
    特性も個体値もバッチリなので次に進む
    ⑩リセット
    ⑪ゲーム開始、HAD以上ストライク@変わらず・BS以上メタモン@赤い糸を預ける
    ⑫タマゴができる状態にし、タマゴを受け取る、特性個体値を確認すると31-31-31-4~5-31-31テクニ(特性2)となった


    English Translation:
    Show Hide

    Example: Scyther
    Scraggy (ability doesn't matter) Destiny Knot
    IVs 4-5/28-29/14-15/30-31/18-19
    Scraggy (Ability: Moxie) Everstone
    IVs: :【30~31】-【8~9】-【22~23】-【20~21】-【12~13】-【30~31】
    I prepared various Scythers with 2-3 perfect IVs first.
    I also prepared Ditto with three perfect IVs

    ①Put in Scraggy
    ②Get the egg ready (i.e. the daycare guy faces you)
    ③Reject the egg
    ④Save
    ⑤Prepare another egg, receive it, hatch it, look at IVs with the IV Checker
    IVs are 【28~29】【15~16】【22~23】【20~21】【18~19】【8~9】 with Moxie
    From [something] it inherited H, D and S and from [something] it inherited B and C.
    It seems like A, which is the one I needed, was not inherited.

    ⑥Start the game, generate the egg, reject it
    ⑦Save
    ⑧Generate an egg, take it
    ⑨Hatch the egg and look at the IVs.
    IVs are 【4~5】【28~29】【22~23】【4-5】【18~19】【30~31】 ability is Moxie
    I see that it inherited H, A, D, B and S.
    Because the characteristics and the ability were right, we continue.
    ⑩Reset
    ⑪Start the game, put in a Scyther with more HAD and an Everstone, and a Ditto with more BS with a Destiny Knot
    ⑫Generate the egg, take it, and confirm the IV spread of: 31-31-31-4~5-31-31 and the ability


    I'm currently unable to try this, but I will promptly go for it as soon as possible, since I do own a 31/31/31/x/x/x Ditto and a x/x/x/31/31/31 Sliggoo.



    EDIT-- Some new details have been discovered (thanks to Arc Tech for compiling this):

    And finally, his spreadsheet for data gathering of the spreads: http://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AjhGzeDNOr0vdHJOT2EwX0EwRXlaNjN6UWpxQkFWdGc.
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 18, 2013
  2. iruchii

    iruchii

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    A friend and I have been testing this ever since we read it on /vp/, and our testing so far has confirmed it. We've only tested with one subject so far though, but we're keeping at it until we can get 5 flawless IVs in the RNG and keep checking with that to make sure it's 100% reliable.
  3. Fennekin

    Fennekin

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    Would you mind telling me the IVs of the parents you've been using? I'm kinda tempted to go for it with a 31/31/31/31/0/31 male Garchomp and a 31/x/31/31/31/x female Sliggoo, too, but since there's a load of 31s around, it might be a bit tricky to keep track of inherited IVs.
  4. iruchii

    iruchii

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    This is the spread we're testing:

    Paras IVs
    [30~31] - [30~31] - [26~27] - [22~23] - [24~25] - [26~27]

    Durant IVs
    [0~1] - [12~15] - [8~9] - [18~19] - [8~9] - [6~7]

    Prole Paras IVs
    [30~31] - [16~17] - [26~27] - [18~19] - [24~25] - [6~7]

    Meaning it's inheriting Paras' HP, Def and Sp. Def, and Durant's Sp. Atk and Speed. We then changed the parents to a Ditto with 31 Sp. Atk and Speed + a Nidoran with 31 on everything but Atk and the results were just as expected: Nidoran's HP, Def and Sp. Def, with Ditto's Sp. Atk and Speed.

    Sorry if the format is a bit confusing, but yes, with 31 in everything it's hard to keep track. I guess you need a couple "bad" Pokémon to really get the desired results asap.
  5. Fennekin

    Fennekin

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    Hnggg. Guess I could try that out using a x/x/x/31/31/31 Ditto instead of Garchomp, perhaps?
  6. iruchii

    iruchii

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    Hmm, then your SpA and SpD inheritance would be hard to really evaluate. For best results you should get a Pokémon from the same Egg Group with just 31 Speed IVs and keep hoping you'll get everything else but Speed from the male. If you can get a 31/x/31/x/x/x Goomy to breed with that Ditto it would be perfect.

    Edit:

    We just got a prole that inherited HP, Def, SpA, SpD from the father and only Speed from the mother, meaning that with our 31/x/31/31/31/x Ditto we can basically get a perfect Special Sweeper as long as the mother has 31 Speed IVs. Neat!

    We're trying to test if the heritage order has to do with gender or with the order the Pokémon are deposited in the day care.
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2013
  7. Agonist

    Agonist Minutes become hours when you wait, hope and regret
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    Sadly, can't SR for shininess + perfect IVs, as the PID remains the same each time (as testing on a Spinda revealed).
  8. iruchii

    iruchii

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    We just confirmed the heritage is based on gender, not the order in which the Pokémon are sent to the Day Care. Which is a shame, because it means you're limited to your female + male compatibility of IVs.
  9. Hollywood

    Hollywood she's thin, she's blonde, she says "wow" a lot
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    this is fantastic
    Colossus, Psylink and Fennekin like this.
  10. Sprocket

    Sprocket P(n) = 1 - (1 - P(1))^n

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    I call bullshit. I've personally bred enough 5x 31s to know that gender has no effect on IV inheritance or natures, only ability inheritance.
  11. iruchii

    iruchii

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    Please read the thread again. This is not just breeding, it's a "kind of" RNG abuse. The gender has influence because the game pre-determines what IVs the father and what IVs the mother are passing down when one of them is equipped with the Destiny Knot -- and because of that, you can do a save exploit where you can keep the desired inheritance spread (i.e.: HP, Atk, Def from father, SpD, Spe from mother) if that's what the game rolled for your next egg and then change the parents to whatever is most appropriate. It has nothing to do with the usual "inheritance" that you're talking about.
  12. OblivionKnight

    OblivionKnight

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    What IV calculator are you using? I really want to try this out for myself also.
  13. Fennekin

    Fennekin

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    ^ Idk about Iruchii, but I'm using Pokémon Online's Team Builder and manually comparing IVs. So far I've ran into no mistakes at all with it.
  14. iruchii

    iruchii

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  15. OblivionKnight

    OblivionKnight

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  16. Stellar

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  17. BlakDragon

    BlakDragon

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    I have excitement! I followed the steps and was able to hatch a 31/31/31/x/31/31 jolly gible 1st try.

    Looks like Magikarp (and whoever it wants to start the fishy business with) actually has some utility in light of this. I say this because Magikarp eggs take the lowest number of steps to hatch, which is ideal for quickly figuring out exactly what parents will pass down what IVs for the next egg.

    edit: yeah, with hatch power level 3, magikarp eggs hatch within 25 seconds of biking.
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2013
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  18. farranpoison

    farranpoison

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    So wait, what? What exactly is going on? From reading the translated post I have no clue what is happening.
    Zekrenzo, Arikado and Mymom234 like this.
  19. AdmiredFob

    AdmiredFob

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    I've recently discovered IV breeding (XY) and I've made a few 5/6 31 IV Pokemon already. I would say I have a very knowledgeable grasp of how to do it.

    Now, I've just read this thread, and all of you guys are AWFUL at explaining this RNG exploit. I am NOT an idiot, so I can assure you: the explanations here are not good or specific.

    The only thing you're saying is to put on Destiny Knot. Also, can you just use simple numbers, like 31 and 0, in your examples?

    Sorry if I sound anal, but you can't expect to explain something to some people if you're ambiguous as hell.

    Take my examples and make the 5IV Pokemon with them. Feel free to change stats around, but MAKE SURE YOU MENTION IT.

    Skarmory Female 31/31/31/0/0/0
    Pidgeot Male 0/0/0/31/31/31
    Ditto 31/0/31/31/0/31


    PS What in the world is "prole paras"?
    Excitement, Chill, ANinyMouse and 3 others like this.
  20. DDKz

    DDKz

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    I'm very confused by the process, I'm not sure if it isn't being explained as well as it could be, or if I'm just an idiot.
    Can you please try to simplify it?
  21. iruchii

    iruchii

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    It's not ambiguous at all, but I'll try to explain it better. Put your Skarmory and Pidgeot in the Day Care, one holding the Destiny Knot, one holding the Everstone. Wait for the Day Care Dude to hand you an egg. Reject the egg. Save the game. Wait for another Egg to pop out. Get it, and check the IVs. Because of the Destiny Knot, 5 IVs will have been passed down from either parent. Now let's say your newly bred Skarmory has 31 HP, 0 Atk, 31 Def, 31 SpA, 12 SpD, 31 Speed. This mean it got its HP and Def from the mother, and its Atk, Spa and Speed from the father, while the SpD was the "wildcard" stat. But you knew this already. The point is that the game's RNG is now fixed in that spread: HP and Def from the mother, Atk, SpA, Spe from the father. So now you can reload your save (from after you rejected the first egg) go to your box and, for example, get a 0/31/0/31/0/31 female Spritzee (just an example) and breed it with your 31/0/31/31/0/31 Ditto. Yes, I mean, swap the Skarmory and the Pidgeot for the Spritzee and Ditto. The newborn Sprtizee will certainly inherit the Ditto's Atk, SpA and Spe and the female Spritzee's HP and Def. That's because the game has already pre-determined which IV values will be borrowed from which parent with the Destiny Knot mechanic. So if you want another spread of IVs to be passed down, just refuse the egg again and repeat the process until you get the desired inheritance. Is that clear now?

    (prole paras is what I was calling the offspring paras)

    Edit;
    I'll try to illustrate it again, and in a way that shows how useful this is.
    So I have a [18/x/23/x/31/x] male Larvitar and a [21/x/x/30/8/31] female Bagon. These are the only IVs I know of them, and they suck. I give Larvitar a Destiny Knot, and an Everstone to Bagon, and take them to the Day Care Center. When the dude tries to hand me an egg, I decline. I save my game. Then I get another egg, but this one I accept and hatch it. Now it's time to check the newborn Bagon's IVs. Let's say it got 21/x/x/23/30/31/31. This means the male Larvitar passed down its Def and SpD, while the female Bagon passed down its HP, SpA and Spe. So let's take a note of that:
    Male: Def, SpD
    Female: HP, SpA, Spe
    Now I reload my save. Instead of getting a second LarvitarXBagon egg, I change the male Larvitar for a male Zubat with x/x/31/x/31/x and a female Swanna with 31/x/x/31/x/31. One of them must have the Destiny Knot equipped, of course. I then accept the egg. What will happen? The baby Ducklett will have, with 100% certainty, the father's Def and SpD and the mother's HP, SpA, Spe -- that is, all the 31 stats I wanted.
    With this method I turned two useless, shitty IV'd Pokémon into a way to get the IVs I wanted in my baby Ducklett.

    ...does this make any sense now?
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2013
  22. farranpoison

    farranpoison

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    Ah, ok. I get it now. Still, it depends on the parents to get the stats, so... yeah, it's "kinda" RNG abuse. Not surefire, and not easy unless you happen to have the perfect parents to use this method with.

    So ok, not bad. I'll probably use it for certain problem mons, but it seems so much easier on mons that have high hatch rates to do it the regular way, or in case you don't have the right parents.
  23. iruchii

    iruchii

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    Yeah, it's still very lucky based for sure. But if you get a spread on any shitmons that coincides with the spread you need for a good IV bred creature, then it saves you the time and the box storage space of trial and error! As long as you have an easy way to check their IVs (or if, at least, the mother and the father have very different IV spreads) then things get a little easier. I recommend using the Battle Institute, which automatically levels them to 50, to check their IVs ingame easily.
  24. farranpoison

    farranpoison

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    One thing I'd like to make sure:

    Say you use a Female Pidgey/ Male Skarmory. Stat inheritances are recorded and reset. What happens if you use a Male mon and a Ditto? Will the Ditto pass down the Female inheritances? And it does it work the other way?
  25. DunnoBro

    DunnoBro

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    Would 6piv magikarp and a 0piv work just as well as 3 and 3?

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