Speed Lowering Moves + Uturn

[Mrobinson587]

I've been playing around with this idea in my head since I noticed numerous pokemon received Icy wind via move tutor but I have had yet a chance to make a Platinum team as college is keeping me busy. So I need some help from the community

Strategy is simple:

You gain an advantage over your opponent in an unorthodox manner by slowing down the incoming poke and then attacking or u turning to an appropriate counter.

In a game where a poke is counting on its speed, I think this strategy may be enough to unbalance an opponent enough for you to take advantage in a battle. Pokemon that switched in may suddenly not be a counter after losing their speed and it makes choice scarfers :'(

Rock Tomb and Icy Wind are as far as I know the only moves that can attack and slow down at the same time. Despite them being low power and RT having 80% accuracy they have pretty good coverage.

So first of all I want to make list of every Pokemon that can use a speed lowering attack + u turn in any tier.

Jirachi -- Icy Wind
Gliscor-- Rock Tomb

come to mind first and they are probably going to end up being the best users of this strategy because they have the stats and movepool to be both support and offensive at the same time. They also cover each others types nicely.

However I still want to get the list made as well as peoples feedback, however critical it is. If it sucks tell me why this strategy sucks using having it on 1 or 2 support pokes.

 

[Pombo]

i though it would be the contrary (misspelled)
You reduce your own speed with things like Hammer Arm to then pass a safe U-turn to a fragiler (lol, fragiler) Teammate

 

[Buckles]

A good idea, but I think maybe lowering an attack stat before U-Turning is a better idea. Featherdance/Captivate + U-Turn could help to set up a frail sweeper. I'm thinking Xatu @ C-Scarf with Featherdance/U-Turn/T-Wave/Trick or Persian @ C-Scarf with Captivate/U-Turn/Hypnosis/Switcheroo as the ultimate disrupters.

 

[DoubleUnderscore]

Except both of those are holding Scarves, so you'll be stuck Featherdancing/Captivating and will have to switch rather than U-Turning.

 

[Imran]

Well surely you would Trick first to screw over one pokemon. Then you would proceed to feather dance / captivate + U-Turn. I don't see why you would try something like Scary face instead, what with the abysmal attack power of those two moves, why not just go for a sharper reduction of speed.

 

[TDS]

I've had a lot of success with U Turn Screech Flygon. Screech on the switch and them U turn to a Puruiter. Works extremely well against dusknoir cresselia and blissey who doesnt always die to pursuit with the defense drop

 

[Banana292]

I'e had success with T-wave, Wish, Feather Dance, U-turn Xatu. Lowering their speed with paralysis] and then crippling their attack is a brilliant way to screw over an opponant. I guess you could replace wish for something if wated.

I do prefer to lower MY OWN speed when u-turning though; it pretty much ensures that you'll get a safe switch in to a certain threat.

 

[Mrobinson587]

Well surely you would Trick first to screw over one pokemon. Then you would proceed to feather dance / captivate + U-Turn. I don't see why you would try something like Scary face instead, what with the abysmal attack power of those two moves, why not just go for a sharper reduction of speed.

My thought was that those attacks are very effective on certain types of switch ins. Usually dropping one stage of speed is enough as it seems that the speeds of a lot of Pokemon are so tailored that 1 speed drop is enough to mess up that poke while it. It also has the advantage of not being stopped by taunt.

Trick is another one that many pokes received so yeah that's something to consider just got a really good idea for my unique lead since it gained trick.

 

[TVboyCanti]

Why is U-turn nessecary for this strategy? Doesn't switching after using the speed lowering attack have the same effect, minus the small damage from a weak physical attack?

I thought Pombo's idea of lowering your own speed via curse or hammer arm or something before U-turn to get a safe switch made more sense.

 

[Pombo]

Yeah. It would give things like Weavile and Ape easy switch-ins in this offensive metagame....I Think a slooow Gliscor/Uxie/Mesprit/Jirachi might work... .i think someone already used this strategy on a trap team...

 

[soundecho]

If you just plain switch normally, you have no idea whos coming in. Where-as u-turn give you an idea of who to switch in.

 

[JohtoPro]

I think the only way I see this strategy working is with a Pursuiter/Trapper. More than likely the opponent is going to switch ecspecially if Speed is going to play a huge part in their strategy. And it seems to me like Trick wouldn't work either seeing as their switch would more than likley be to a Sweeper/Other trick user(ecspecially if it gets used by what got it in Pt) if they're expecting the Trick to a Choice Item although I guess there's always the chance you're holding the opposite of what they could use or running Burn/Toxic orb/Black Sludge.

For some reason the whole strategy doesn't seem to do anything for me on paper but I'd like to see some testing done with this as it seems like an interesting strategy although what I'm getting is it's more effort than it's worth. I mean either way it seems you'll at least force a switch so who knows.

 

[Pombo]

If you just plain switch normally, you have no idea whos coming in. Where-as u-turn give you an idea of who to switch in.

Not necessarily. (misspelled)

Faster U-Turn
-IF he decides to stay in, then its like a normal switch with damage.
-If he switch, you can choose a counter.

Slower U-Turn
-If he stay in, your bulky slow poke take a hit and open the path to a frail sweeper
-If he switch, then you can choose a counter,

The difference:
1-Free switch-in for a frail sweeper
2 You get advantage in both scenarios (switch or not switch)

 

[soundecho]

Which is basically what I just said D:

 

[weezy]

I guess this would make a decent way to deal with Gengar. Icy Wind it, lower it's speed which Gengar relies on, U-Turn to Weavile or TTar, and hit it with a Pursuit as it runs. I liek the element of surprise.

 

[Mrobinson587]

For some reason the whole strategy doesn't seem to do anything for me on paper but I'd like to see some testing done with this as it seems like an interesting strategy although what I'm getting is it's more effort than it's worth. I mean either way it seems you'll at least force a switch so who knows.

Okay here is an example... this particular one is not probably going to happen that much but i mean lets just say this happens

Jirachi
U turn
icy wind
Zen headbutt
wish


Jirachi vs Glaceon

(Predict a switch)

Glaceon switches in Heatran (with Scarf) or Infernape

Jirachi uses Icy wind

Heatran/infernape takes little damage but has a speed drop

Jirachi U turns on heatran to a counter/ Zen headbutts/ psychics which KO's infernape.

This is a bad example as U turn does pitiful damage to Heatran and infernape probably won't be switching in much anyways but i mean that's the idea

Here i thought of another one.

Gliscor vs Heracross
Earthquake
Rock Tomb
Roost
U turn

Heracross switches for Gyarados

Gliscor uses rock tomb on the switch.

Gliscor U turns to gyarados counter. DD dos has -1 speed making it easier to KO even if it DD on the switch.

This strategy allows the Icy wind/ rock tomb poke to more effectively help their team. I've seen teams that use u turn on multiple pokes to peck off damage for their sweeper. Obviously this works well with stealth rock or any other residual damage.

 

[jrrrrrrr]

While this might seem to be a good idea, it really isn't very useful. You are barely doing any damage to the pokemon that switch in, even after an Icy Wind + a U-turn, and you still have to take a hit with your counter to that pokemon (which can be very dangerous with things like Infernape, Gengar and Salamence). This is just using two moveslots to do basically nothing (not even noteworthy amounts of damage) when you could be using much better support moves like Stealth Rock, Knock Off, Thunder Wave, setting up Screens and Wishes etc.

 

[TUskate]

I don't know if I would do this to set up sweepers. I personally think thunder wave would be better for that purpose.

However, I have used Icy Wind on shoddy extensively to eliminate faster counters, and then KO them once you have to speed advantage.

One interesting set I actually ran on Shoddy was modest Mantine with Surf/Hp Electric/Ice Beam/Icy Wind. I remember beating a Garchomp and a Gyarados after they switched into an Icy Wind. Surprise factor helped immensely however.

Overall the only benefit of Icy Wind > Thunder Wave is that there are no immunities involved with Icy Wind. Thunder Waves lasting effect is probably still more useful IMO.

 

[Chinese Dood]

Overall the only benefit of Icy Wind > Thunder Wave is that there are no immunities involved with Icy Wind. Thunder Waves lasting effect is probably still more useful IMO.

Just a minor nitpick, but Clear Body Pokemon like Metagross/Tentacruel/Regirock/Registeel/Regice - and I suppose White Smoke Torkoal in UU - are "immune" in that their abilities prevent stat reduction. (Interestingly enough, coincidentally, all these pokemon other than Regirock also resist Icy Wind.) Of course, other than Tentacruel, none of those pokemon are fast to begin with anyway.

O, another "immune" would be Shield Dust pokemon like Venomoth and Dustox in UU, but Dustox is slow (and no one uses one anyway), and Venomoth is most likely going to have Tinted Lens over Shield Dust - people actually use Venomoth a fair amount in UU because of Tinted Lens. So yeah, just saying there are immunities involved with specific pokemon, but those immunities are typically slow to begin with anyway.

 

[Chou Toshio]

I agree that a slow, bulky U-turner has more interest. For instance, it would be really cool if Scizor learned Hammer Arm. Haha

 

[TUskate]

Just a minor nitpick, but Clear Body Pokemon like Metagross/Tentacruel/Regirock/Registeel/Regice - and I suppose White Smoke Torkoal in UU - are "immune" in that their abilities prevent stat reduction. (Interestingly enough, coincidentally, all these pokemon other than Regirock also resist Icy Wind.) Of course, other than Tentacruel, none of those pokemon are fast to begin with anyway.

O, another "immune" would be Shield Dust pokemon like Venomoth and Dustox in UU, but Dustox is slow (and no one uses one anyway), and Venomoth is most likely going to have Tinted Lens over Shield Dust - people actually use Venomoth a fair amount in UU because of Tinted Lens. So yeah, just saying there are immunities involved with specific pokemon, but those immunities are typically slow to begin with anyway.

Very true, but most of those pokemon listed are usually not the quickest pokemon out there. Tentacruel usually needs to sacrifice speed to actually have bulk and metagross is usually outran unless it's scarf'd.

 

[Pombo]

I agree that a slow, bulky U-turner has more interest. For instance, it would be really cool if Scizor learned Hammer Arm. Haha

Hell yeah... why dot he have it? HE have almost a Hammer in his arm xD