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Spikes/Power Sweep

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by SoloSand, Aug 15, 2013.

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What do you think of my team?

  1. Fantastic

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  2. Good

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. Okay

    7.1%
  4. Needs Work

    42.9%
  5. Not Good at All

    50.0%
  1. SoloSand

    SoloSand

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2013
    Messages:
    1
    I'm aware of EVs/IVs but I never really went for great strategies, just I built my own, and they usually fail. My friend recommended Smogon and now I'm working on my first Smogon Recommended team, using nothing but pokemon with the recommended sets by Smogon. Here's what I got, and please rate this and leave feedback.

    227.png
    Skarmory w/ Leftovers
    Ability: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP/ 4 Def/ 252 SDef
    Impish Nature
    -Spikes
    -Roost
    -Whirlwind
    -Toxic

    I lead with Skarmory by setting up Spikes to cripple anything that isn't flying, ghost, or a Levitator that my opponent has as well as acting as a wall. It's natural great Defense plus EV trained HP and Sp. Def makes Skarmory a tough opponent to KO, with Sturdy to at least guarantee me one Spikes. For those walls such as Snorlax, it can use Toxic to cripple it and Roost to take care of the damage that has been done. If I need to get rid of the opponent fast, it can use Whirlwind, switching them out and activating Spikes. Leftovers are there just to keep Skarmory alive even longer.


    359.png
    Absol w/ Life Orb
    Ability: Super Luck
    EVs: 4 HP/ 252 Atk/ 252 Spe
    Naughty Nature

    -Sucker Punch
    -Night Slash
    -Flamethrower
    -Superpower

    As my All-Out Attacker, Absol is made to do nothing but deal damage. With the Attack and Speed EV training, it can become a sweeper. The Life Orb withers it's health, however in exchange for more attack power. Sucker Punch will do quick and easy damage before the foe attacks, which is useful for when they're low on health and decide to attack one last time, along with STAB. Night Slash is great with it's base 70 attack power, and it's deadly with STAB. Night Slash also has a high critical hit ratio, which is complemented by Absol's Super Luck. Flamethrower helps with dangerous pokemon such as Scizor and Heracross. Superpower is used as a pure power last resort which can ultimately destroy Hydreigon and Weavile.


    94.png
    Gengar w/ Black Sludge
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 4 HP/ 252 SAtk/ 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    -Substitute
    -Disable
    -Shadow Ball
    -Focus Blast

    This Gengar specializes in a Substitute/Disable set. It's EVs give it more power and enough speed to do whatever it pleases. Levitate is it's only ability, and it's great because it eliminates it's ground weakness. Black Sludge heals Gengar and really hurts those usual Trick users. Substitute and Disable work together as Gengar can disable an opponent's vital move, then substitutes and destroys the opponent with a STAB Shadow Ball or a Focus Blast. This set becomes good agaisnt Dragon Dance users, especially Dragon Dance Scrafty.


    650.png
    Mienshao w/ Life Orb
    Ability: Regenerator
    EVs: 252 Atk/ 4 SAtk/ 252 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    -Swords Dance
    -Baton Pass
    -Hi Jump Kick
    -Stone Edge

    Mienshao is the key to making all the physical attackers in my team what they should be. It's main use is to survive a turn to set up a Swords Dance, then Baton Pass to a pokemon such as Absol. If i'm confident, or if Mean Look is in play, Mienshao's Attack/Speed EVs should help me destory the opponent with the brute force of Life Orb+ STAB Hi Jump Kick. Stone Edge is useful for the flying types such as Ho-Oh and Charizard. Regenerator complements Baton Pass very well, healing Mienshao everytime it uses it, making it very reusable in battle. It's speed can outspeed Dragon Dance Scraftys and can OHKO pokemon such as Weavile and Hydreigon.


    91.png
    Cloyster w/ White Herb
    Ability: Skill Link
    EVs: 4 HP/ 252 Atk/ 252 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    -Shell Smash
    -Icicle Spear
    -Rock Blast
    -Surf

    Cloyster is a combo master in this set. Shell Smash lowers it defenses, but raises it's attacks and speed, however the White Herb comes in to let me retain my defenses, ending up with a Speed, Attack, and Sp. Atk boost. Skill Link ensures that it's STAB Icicle Spear and Rock Blast hit each 5 times, with Shell Smash giving each hit more buff. Rock Blast helps agaist Archeops and Aerodactyl. Surf acts as another STAB move that could take out the opponent's rock and fire types, such as Rhyperior and Infernape.


    477.png
    Gliscor w/ Toxic Orb
    Ability: Poison Heal
    EVs: 252 HP/ 40 Def/ 216 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    -Substitute
    -Protect
    -Toxic
    -Earthquake

    Gliscor is somewhat a physical attacker, but it's mostly a Substitute/Protect/Toxic staller. Gliscor can use it's HP and Defense to stay alive, while the Toxic Orb/Poison Heal combo heals me as well as give me immunity from Paralysis and Sleep. While the foe is poisoned, Giscor can use Earthquake to finish them off, which works well when Gliscor outspeeds Ice Punch Electivire.
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2013
  2. SnowCristal!

    SnowCristal!

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2013
    Messages:
    234
    Say a thing o.o Thundurus. You can sash your Cloyster for that and use tauntlead custap Skarmory to defend your sash.
    For a easy rkill u can put ScarfMienshao, to rkill the same Thundurus and also tornadus.

    An other hard trait is Scarftoed or every bulky water...
  3. AOPSUser

    AOPSUser

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2011
    Messages:
    1,581
    This reminds me of my first OU team.

    First of all, lead Skarmory generally tend to run Custap Berry, so that it gets at least two layers of Spikes. You may want to consider this, since your Gliscor can already do a lot of physical walling.
    Your team also lacks Stealth Rock. If Skarmory's spikes hurt, its Stealth Rock would hurt even more. Also, you won't be needing Toxic, since your Gliscor can already do that. Oh, and Skarmory can't be poisoned.

    Absol should really just be used as a revenge killer. The damage it dishes out is amazing, but its Base 75 speed leaves it a lot to be desired, especially in OU. Also, Absol can't beat Hydreigon, Weavile, Scizor, or Heracross, since they all outspeed and OHKO (Weavile and Heracross aren't even seen that often in OU).

    252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Low Kick (60 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Absol: 244-289 (89.7 - 106.25%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
    252 Atk Choice Band Weavile Low Kick (60 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Absol: 282-332 (103.67 - 122.05%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    252+ Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Absol: 244-288 (89.7 - 105.88%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
    252 Atk Choice Scarf Scizor Superpower vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Absol: 396-466 (145.58 - 171.32%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    252+ SpA Life Orb Hydreigon Draco Meteor vs. 4 HP / 0- SpD Absol: 534-629 (196.32 - 231.25%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    252+ Atk Heracross Close Combat vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Absol: 632-746 (232.35 - 274.26%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    So, Absol is just there to revenge kill with Sucker Punch. It could also trap slower mons with Pursuit, so I recommend using Pursuit in that set somewhere. Also, you may want to use Fire Blast over Flamethrower, because:

    0 SpA Life Orb Absol Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 168 SpD Ferrothorn: 270-322 (76.7 - 91.47%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (OHKO with Stealth Rocks and 2 layers of Spikes, or 3 layers of Spikes)
    252+ Atk Life Orb Absol Superpower vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Ferrothorn: 250-296 (71.02 - 84.09%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock and 3 layers of Spikes
    0 SpA Life Orb Absol Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 168 SpD Ferrothorn: 213-255 (60.51 - 72.44%) -- 18.75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and 3 layers of Spikes

    Another thing you might want to consider with Absol is giving it a Choice Band. With the band, it has no need for Fire Blast or Flamethrower anymore, as Superpower can deal with Ferrothorn just fine. Your Sucker Punch and Pursuit would also be more powerful. Or, you can give it a Choice Scarf, to allow it to revenge kill more effectively.

    Gengar is only really good against Choiced Pokemon, because you die to pretty much every Dragon Dance user, including Scrafty (who uses that in OU anymore?).

    Get rid of the Special Attack EVs on Mienshao. Unless you want to use Hidden Power Ice.
    The problem with Mienshao is that what your Absol needs is speed, not Attack. Sure, it kills stuff after one Swords Dance boost, but Absol is just going to die very quickly.
    No smart player would ever use Charizard in OU, and Ho-Oh is Uber. Stone Edge is only really useful against Volcarona, but if you set up your hazards, Hi Jump Kick is an OHKO after Stealth Rock and 1 layer of Spikes, which you would have set up with your Skarmory. Thus, I would recommend Hidden Power Ice (for Gliscor), along with some Special Attack EVs, or Substitute.

    Cloyster should have Ice Shard over Surf, and Life Orb. The reason is because Ice Shard beats most priority users (Breloom, looking at you) after a Shell Smash boost. Also, Life Orb gives Cloyster enough power to make Ice Shard work. Ice Shard is also very valuable in revenge killing Dragons, and stuff like Thundurus-T. Everything Surf killed is still killed with Icicle Spear and Rock Blast.

    Gliscor seems nice, but no one uses Electivire.

    Your team seems a bit weak to stuff like Thundurus-T, and you don't have a special wall, so stuff like Alakazam can walk over your team. I would recommend you play around with different Pokemon, such as Latias, Blissey, or Jellicent, to help with that weakness.

    TL;DR:
    -Skarmory should have Stealth Rock over Toxic, and possibly Custap Berry.
    -Absol should have Pursuit, Choice Band or Scarf, or at the very least Fire Blast>Flamethrower
    -Stop using Gengar against Dragon Dancers
    -Mienshao doesn't really need Stone Edge, Hidden Power Ice or Substitute might be better
    -Try Baton Passing something other than Swords Dance to Absol (maybe Baton Pass Shift Gear Smeargle)
    -Life Orb>White Herb on Cloyster.
    -Ice Shard>Surf on Cloyster
    -Consider using a special sponge. (Latias, Blissey, Jellicent, etc.)
  4. Cero

    Cero

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2013
    Messages:
    36
    Read the Rules before posting an RMT please.
    Be more descriptive, write a building phase and try to take more care of the graphic part of this by using images.
  5. Ignus

    Ignus

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2011
    Messages:
    145
    Hi! I'm gonna try to help you out! I'll try to explain any changes I would make as clearly as possible, as well as point you in the direction of resources that may help you make decisions during team building in the future. Hopefully this can help you towards making your second, third, and maybe even 746383th team! Let's get started, shall we?

    The first thing I would like to suggest is looking at this: http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/ou-stats-july-2013.3486593/

    This is the usage stats of Pokemon on OU teams as of now. It's an invaluable resource for all aspiring players. It can give you a look in to the most accurate list of Pokemon that almost every team has to react to. Try to focus on stopping the top 10 or so pokemon on the list. If you can handle those, move on to the next benchmark! Try to handle the top 20. Learn what they are capable of. Know their base speed. Understand how commonly they run something like a choice scarf, or if it's possible they could be running calm mind. By the time you can handle the top 50 or so, you will have an extremely good team! It's a great place to learn what to expect from other players.
    Of course, how can you expect something useful if you only see what pokemon are being used? The answer to that, my friend, is easy.
    You've already been through smogon's strategy Pokedex. It's a great resource.
    The other place would be the damage calculator. More specifically, the all vs. one and the one vs. all damage calculator. Go ahead and play around with them! They're more interesting than you would expect. You can get to them from smogon's home page, you're wondering.

    The whole point of this is so that you can understand why these pokemon are good, and then use them to their respective strengths. Knowing the enemy's decisions makes your decisions easier. You can't be surprised by something the enemy does because it's the exact same thing you would do.



    Alright, let's move on to your team, shall we? Let's start with focusing the objective of your team. Right now, you have a bunch of useful parts of a machine bundled up into one big heap. This is where most of the weak parts of your team originate from, and tends to be a general weakness of "Recommended Teams." You have a bunch of ideas, but they're all overlapping and conflicting with one another. It's hard to say what exactly you want when you never defined it from the start.

    Often times well built teams have a pokemon or pair of pokemon they build their team around. Weather based teams are often good examples of these, as they focus on keeping their weather intact and abusing it through it's various effects.

    So, where do we start? I assume your Thread's name is a good place to start. Spikes. Power sweep. Sounds easy enough! You already have Skarmory as your reliable hazard placer. But of course hazards have a way of quickly disappearing after a keen rapid spin! Luckily, you already have Gengar as a spin blocker. And, as an added bonus, Gengar has a tendency to force all sorts of switches! Yay! More spikes damage! We're doing well so far.

    However, this is where things within your team start to get a tad bit... Messy.

    Gengar is great. It's fast, hits reasonably hard and has 3 handy immunities to switch in when needed. But it's not exactly a sweeper. A true sweeper tends to excell in the mid and late game, metaphorically cleaning up after the mess of the early-mid game, where Gengar tends to put the most pressure. Absol, while packing a punch, can't really fit this description. It has a problem preventing this. It's slow as balls. It can't live up to the title of "sweeper" because it doesn't fulfill the requirements. What are the requirements, though?

    A sweeper must:
    1. Kill everything left on the opponent's team after key pokemon are eliminated
    2. Be able to do the above thing

    Well, if eliminating all but maybe like, one or two pokemon count, then we have a sweeper. but it doesn't. It doesn't fall under either of those categories. It's too frail and too slow.
    But we gave it boosted attack from Mienshao! It can sweep now, right?
    Does it fulfill the requirements?

    A sweeper must:
    1. Kill everything left on the opponent's team after key pokemon are eliminated
    2. Be able to do the above thing

    Damn. We have a problem. We have a flaw in our two step plan. Absol works better as a revenge killer than a sweeper. Mienshao doesn't have the coverage to go for a full sweep, and with this set he is further hindered.

    But what about Cloyster? He's actually a relatively solid choice for a sweeper, even after only one shell smash! He outspeeds most pokemon and have great coverage and power! NOW we're getting somewhere!
    But Cloyster has a couple problems of his own. First, he likes it when there isn't any entry hazards to hurt him when he comes in. He's not frail, but he takes a quarter of his health from Stealth Rock. Ouch. Cloyster's other problem is that he has a tendency to loose to priority users such as Scizor. He also has problems with Fighting types such as Conkeldurr and Croagunk. He can sometimes supplement this with moves like Ice shard, but it won't be of much use due to their relative bulkiness. This usually needs to be covered by a teammate, for fear of revenge killing.

    Also, carrying surf won't do you much good. It's a special move, and you're not invested in special attack! Cloyster doesn't even have good special attack, silly! Try either ice shard for it's priority or razor shell if you want the water coverage. Another option you have is actually rapid spin, but it doesn't make much sense for the person you want the entry hazards removed for to be the remover. Try someone like... Hm. You have a couple of options, but most of them are Physically defensive oriented, or slightly overlap typing wise with Cloyster. Starmie would be a good option, despite fulfilling the second category. Another thing you could try is actually switching around a couple of things. If you place a Standard Ferrothorn for Skarmory and grab a Donphan or a Hitmontop with Intimidate in place of Gliscor. Just look at the Smogon guides for a good general idea.

    Of course, a lot of these suggested switches are kind of alluding to another problem your team has. This problem, I think, is an extreme amount of lopsided-ness when it comes to bulk. On one hand, you have three extremely bulky pokemon. But every single one of them takes only Physical hits well. Throw in some special bulk to help you make switches easier without taking the full force of your enemy's rage. It can help you out a metric ton!



    So, in summary, look at the resources I gave you. They may help out a ton!
    Also, look at your whole Absol and Mienshao dilemma. You may find them redundant and might have to replace them with something more useful!
    Try to get a rapid spinner for Cloyster. It can only help!
    Finally, try to balance out your defenses. Special bulk may be in order.

    Good luck and Good hunting!

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