If I switch in exploud while you heal bell because of its soundproof ability heal bell will fail
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If I switch in exploud while you heal bell because of its soundproof ability heal bell will fail
no it wont
Good catch! I didn't see that. Let me change that.
Knock Off Lando screws this over so badly though, not to mention that you can't switch in regularly seeing as you have no recovery. You pretty much have to run Wish support for this to be worth trying, and even then you aren't going to be able to receive a Wish whenever you want it. Given that a third of the reason Landorus is so good against stall is that it takes very limited residual damage, Goodra with 0 recovery doesn't make for a good counter.
Not really, because it tanks the knock off, then the next hit doesn't kill as ice beam one shots. And I did say that this requires significant team support. However, it's good if you have an open spot on the team and need to patch up a lando weakness.
But Lando probably won't stay in on Goodra... He gets the Knock Off of on the switch and takes the AV, switches out so something that can take the Ice Beam and force Goodra Out, and the next time Lando is in Goodra won't be able to switch into its attacks that easily... Lando-I is just a bitch to counter period.
Well goodra is kinda bad so it's not hard to top...
Sub18 suggested Spdef Dnite for one of my teams recently so I was interested to see how it worked. Didn't quite fit my team (the slot it would replace into would need defog or SR) but people keep talking about how good it is. Is this from practice or paper, because multiscale is a very real thing and sounds kinda hit/miss on a team without 2 or more hazard controllers.
Sub18 suggested Spdef Dnite for one of my teams recently so I was interested to see how it worked. Didn't quite fit my team (the slot it would replace into would need defog or SR) but people keep talking about how good it is. Is this from practice or paper, because multiscale is a very real thing and sounds kinda hit/miss on a team without 2 or more hazard controllers.
Icy wind
Two or more? o.O that's completely unnecessary. One is fine for SDef Nite, depending on how well your defogger can switch in on the opponent's team. But anyway that's not important. Yes, SDef Nite is great. I remember I was using one of Fingerscrossed's teams which revolved around Zard Y, HP Flying Thundurus, and Keldeo iirc. Despite having three Pokemon to try to weaken Dragonite, I could not break through it. The issue is that not only are Keldeo/Zard Y's attacks doing jack diddly to it, it can do tons of damage to them with Dragon Claw + Extremespeed (more than most walls/tanks normally do), so I was forced to constantly be switching myself. But anyway yeah I think it's a very effective mon. The only thing I've seen is that it's kind of difficult to put on teams. I suck at making balanced atm, it's unusable on HO, and I haven't made a good stall team with it yet, but I suppose I haven't really tried that hard. Dice had a cool team with it but for the life of me I can't remember what else was on the team.
I wanted to continue keeping track of stall pokemon worth mentioning, as I did with Sylveon and Porygon-2. Today I'll focus on Chesnaught, the pokemon I would place second or third among defensive grass types.
The access to defensive grass types in OU seems limitless. We have Venu-mega, Amoongus, Ferrothorn commonly seen on stall. Shaymin, Roserade, Tangrowth and Gourgeist-Super all have niches they can supply. Even Virizion can be used as a semi-stall component with taunt/roar access and great speed.
So why does Chesnaught stand out?
Initial Starting Set
Chesnaught @ Leftovers
Ability: Bulletproof
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Earthquake / Coverage Slot
- Leech Seed
- Spiky Shield / Substitute
- Hammer Arm / Seed Bomb
Chesnaught has a few interesting attributes that need to be handled separately.
1. Role as a Physical Wall
a. The Helpful Resists
b. Bulletproof
2.Role as a Scout
a. Personal Protect Move
b. Bulletproof as an individual scouter
3. Role as an Attacker
a. Beauty of Fighting
b. Coverage
c. Leech Seed Pressure
4. Metagame Relevance
a. What it takes
b. Checks/Counters
c. Good Teammates
d. Other Options
1. Role as a Physical Wall
In today's physical meta, the precious physical walls are very much sought after. Chesnaught sports what initially seems like average physical bulk for a mixed wall, 90/120. That is, until you realize that's the gold standard spot for a grass physical wall. Venu is 80/120. Tangrowth is 100/125. Ferrothron is 74/131 (nice stat selection, Gamefreak).
In fact, most of our walls we'd put physical add up to about 200 base between the two stats. While this doesn't mean the same bulk (typing and distribution of stats between the two both make a difference), it isn't a terrible approximation considering that the stats are roughly balanced around 100 per. Heatran is just below 200 at 90/106, Skarm is 205 at 60/145. Scizor-mega is 70/140. So perhaps a better statement would be "Chesnaught is among good company when taking into account his physical spread".
So what do we look for in a good physical wall?
Helpful Resists
Obviously bulk isn't enough when it comes to defense. Take a look at Meganium, Tangrowth, Weezing, Torterra and Steelix. All of them suffer from a bad typing. However, Chesnaught supports some incredible resists. Chesnaught supports six resists (Ground, Rock, Dark, Water, Electric, Grass) and six weaknesses (Flying, Psychic, Fire, Poison, Fairy, and Ice). Of these, not one weakness or resist could be said to be irrelevant. Poison is obviously the least relevant of all, perhaps followed by grass. As we'll see later, Chesnaught might as well be immune to poison outside a few users as well as immune to ghost. But with such a good balance of weaknesses and resists, it has definite places where it can find a niche in the metagame.
In this list, there is one combination of resists Chesnaught has that is treasured by only 5 other fully evolved pokemon useable in OU, and that's the legendary edgequake resist. Chesnaught, Breloom, Virizion, Bronzong, Flygon and Claydol are the only six pokemon in the game to have the typing and ability to gain this. That means in OU vs Excadrill or under gravity (lando being the only semi-common user), only the first three hold this.
Finally, it should be mentioned that the dark resist is an absolute godsend to stall. Resisting the OU dark users is as rare, if not rarer, than edgequake resists on stall. The reason comes from a completely different direction, that being the amount of Dark and Fight mons with recovery. This number is also 6, in terms of relevant users. Mandibuzz, Hydregion and Umbreon are the three most relevant dark mons with recovery, while Chesnaught, Virizion and Hawlucha should be the only three non-Arceus mons with recovery in fighting type.
But what about fairies? They're super common and incredibly good on stall. This would be true, if not for the fact that the most relevant dark type is Bisharp, the Iron/Dark monster that has co-defined a whole archtype of HO for almost half a year. And let's face it, if you don't cover Bisharp, you lose. A lot. And as Azumarill, Klefki and Mawile-m are the only fairies not weak to steel... Well, good luck making any of them work as a defensive pivot, especially when base form mawile just powers up Bisharp.
Bulletproof
Okay, let's be honest. Bulletproof ranks as the number one most confusing ability in the game. What moves does it cover, what gets by it? Well. Let's make a list of relevant ones and talk about what this means.
Shadow Ball, Sludge Bomb, Aura Sphere, Bullet Seed, Focus Blast, Gyro Ball, Seed Bomb, Acid Spray
If you see anything outside of this that he's immune to... well, outside of zap cannon or searing shot (usable only by Victini), I question your opponent's team building skill.
The main pokemon that now hate you include Aegislash, Breloom, Venusaur-mega, Roserade, Amoongus and most variants of Gengar. Tentacruel gengerally forgoes sludge wave for sludge bomb or Acid Spray, and so he'll dislike this. Ferrothorn and the rare Forretress absolutely want to die when chesnaught is around, getting destroyed so easily by most of Chesnaught's move pool and not being able to even hit Gyro Ball. Mega Blastoise lacking ice beam (most do) has to settle for 4hko'ing chesnaught as he gets 3hko'd or 2hko'd (seed bomb).
Remember how I said Chesnaught is essentially immune to poison and ghost? Outside Landorus, you're not going to find many Sludge Wave users. Shadow Ball is also the best Ghost move, and coupled with the physical defense, you'll be immune or not bothered by any ghost attacks.
At the end of the day, there are three major pokes that bulletproof takes away. S rank Aegislash, A+ rank Venu-m (lacking HP fire, which most do), and Ferrothorn. The rest are either rare or can choose other moves to get by Chesnaught. However, the beauty of being anti-meta is most pokemon WON'T choose to get around Chesnaught.
Role as a Scout
Chesnaught has multiple reasons he can be used as a scout for stall. His ability catches a bunch of "surprise" moves from pokemon like Gengar. His stats allow him to shrug off most physical attackers that throw in a sudden mixed attack. 88/75 is higher than Gliscor's special side, who can be used as a special wall. Lastly, he has his own deterrent protect move. If a physical attack hits, you can easily scout for items such as leftovers. All of this leads to a pokemon who can not only scout sets, but is an absolute nightmare for choice mons like Keldeo and Talonflame.
His scouting is also one of the main parts of the third point: Recovery. As Chesnaught forces switches, he's able to get his health back both by leftovers and sending in leech seed. Coupled with his own protect move, he's very adept at getting his health back to high levels.
Personal Protect Move
Spiky Shield is perhaps just as strange to us as King's Shield. You would think it would function similarly, but the functions couldn't be more different for us. The most major note is Spiky Shield is a "Full and Absolute" protect. Whereas King's Shield lets all status moves (Taunt, Wisp and similar) slip by, Spiky Shield will stop status and attacks alike. But contact moves will cause their attackers to lose 12% of their health. While not a lot, couple this with Leech Seed and you suddenly are becoming incredibly annoying.
Like all protect moves minus King's Shield, Spiky Shield works best as a scouting tool. Considering multiple pokemon coming in vs chesnaught are pokemon who easily and commonly utalize choice items (Talonflame, Specs Keldeo, Scarf Heatran, trick Rotom, CB Azumarill) as well as pokemon Chesnaught comes in against (Scarf Landorus-t, Scarf Excadrill, Band/Scarf Terrakion), this allows you to not only allow Chesnaught to safely scout for dangerous moves, but to give you the best course of action next turn. Late in the game, it forces your opponent to play safe or lose momentum.
One of the odd notes for Bulletproof is scouting intentions. Vs Latios, who often comes in, Chesnaught can find if Latios is planning on Defogging or attacking immediately. Given rock damage, you'll also find leftovers or the more dangerous life orb.
Bulletproof for Individual Scouting
Against pokemon without choice locking items, Chesnaught can use Bulletproof to switch into a predicted move like Shadow ball/Focus blast Gengar and then proceed to scout sludge wave over sludge bomb. The is especially useful vs Gengar and Alakazam if you can lure them into an obvious focus blast or Shadow ball. Scouting for whether zam runs Psychic or Psyshock as well as Gengar running Sludge wave or sludge bomb gives you a huge advantage later on.
But more importantly, pokemon like Aegislash that have 10 different sets are found out easily. Using Bulletproof as an insurance tool vs the special attacks Aegi spams, you can switch in and easily threaten Aegi out regardless of most sets. Flash cannon/Sub Toxic being the only issues. Even hit with moves like Sacred Sword and Iron Head are non-issues given Chesnaught's bulk.
Role as an Attacker
The fourth point about being a great physical wall was eliminating the threats it nails down. Chesnaught does that, having a diverse attack move pool to add to everything else. Not only that, his two stabs are pretty noteworthy.
Beauty of Fighting
On stall, hearing someone talk about fighting attacks means they're talking about coverage. Fight attacks get steel, rock, dark, ice and normal types. Three of these five types are each noted by stall for different reasons. With the five types Fight hits for Super effective damage, it also gains 7 types it hits for neutral. Four resists and one immunity makes fighting an incredible typing.
Steel is be far the most difficult type for stall to deal with because of the immunity to toxic and the sheer diversity of steels. Often, we'd like to use fire moves, but then heatran is an issue. Skarmory exists to take fighting, as does Aegislash, but the ladder isn't stopping Chesnaught.
Darks are noted because of Knock Off crushing stall teams. They also have access to pursuit, taunt and other strange moves that utilize side effects to hurt stall. However, the two main dark types (TTar and Bisharp) are 4x weak to fight. Gyarados-m, Ttar-m, Crawduant and Greninja all get special note.
Normal type is noted for one reason. Chansey. But Chansey is the epitome of normal types, so we can talk about her in the same breath as anything else you might see (P2/Diggersby being the next two non-flying non-blissey normal types on usage iirc). Having a way to deal with chansey is very neccessary, and fighting physical attacks are the absolute best way to do so (Knock off itself won't kill chansey).
The two less noted:
Ice types are generally really worthless defensively, but stuff like Kyurem-b and Mamoswine are infinitely painful for stall. Chesnaught doesn't switch in to either, nor does it stay in for Kyub, but he can deter the major ice types from coming in.
Rock types aren't noted as a whole but the two individuals worth noting are incredibly painful for stall. Terrakion and Tyranitar both give stall nightmares, Terrak for wall breaking and TTar for pursuit trapping, rock setting, and possible mega.
As a last note, against Stall, Chesnaught is very good at pressuring Chansey, walling Venusaur and annoying just about everything. It is a bit of a makeshift stall breaker once Venusaur is gone, having fight coverage to generally cut right through standard stall teams. Hammer arm making him slower will also allow him to hit Skarmory for SE damage for certain turns. Just make sure to scout for roost.
Coverage and the Substitute
Chesnaught has access to multiple coverage attacks. For this section, we'll also be considering his second stab, Grass, coverage due to the lack of help grass actually provides. The only real note I'll give grass it the ability to solve Quagsire, Keldeo and Azumarill much harder, but only works on switches or if they lock wrong for the latter two. With Earthquake, Stone Edge/Rock Slide, Shadow Claw, Dragon Claw, Wood Hammer/Seed Bomb, Poison Jab, Gyro Ball and Payback, Chesnaught has a great deal of coverage. But what should we use to help out with fight?
My personal preference is Earthquake. This means that any Aegi short of Balloon is crushed instantly and can't sub-toxic. This also helps hit grounded electrics like Raikou and Manectric on switches as well as SE hits on grounded poisons (tentacruel, Venusaur, and Nidos coming in or locked into bad moves). You do completely lose Lati@s, Gyarados, Dragonite and Landorus.
Stone Edge/Rock Slide are other good options, voiding the loss of Dragonite and Gyarados, and allowing Chesnaught behind a sub to beat Talonflame and Pinsir-mega, which is very cool. It's a much more offensive option, not offering as much for a defensive pivot but works very well with a sub set. You do have to stall out Aegi with leech seed, though.
Shadow Claw is a pretty decent option. While you have to worry about Aegislash's King Shield, you can hit Aegi, Gengar, Alakazam, Lati@s, Espeon hard, all of which can provide Chesnaught hard. This set MUST have a substitute as most of these will have Psychic. For Alakazam, Espeon and Latios, it will take two hits to kill them. However, Latios needs draco meteor to have a chance to KO (it won't have psychic). Psyshock is only a 2hko. Alakazam sporting Psyshock over Psychic will lose as he can only just deal over 50% with Psyshock. The best part is a sub will scout this for you.
The last attack worthy of real note is Poison Jab. Allowing you to hit everything in OU outside of Landorus, Aegislash and Gliscor for neutral damage when paired with hammer arm, Poison jab is a fantastic coverage move. It shouldn't be used with substitute as the set does kind of want to take Sylveon on as it switches in, and you'd be sacrificing Hit Points at that point.
Leech Seed Pressure
Leech Seed is a very simple move. You spam it at non-grass types (and avoid goodra), and you profit at the end of every turn. Generally you average about 8-10% return, but that's a hell of a lot better than the stocks in America so I can't complain. But what makes Chesnaught such a great seeder with so little speed
Well, it's a combination of everything so far. Chesnaught can come in often on multiple moves he's immune to, force them out and leech seed. He has access to a protect move, and sub seed Chesnaught is also incredibly (and I mean INCREDIBLY) dangerous. Fighting type STAB and the coverage Chesnaught has will make sure very few pokemon can come in to break his subs. Bulletproof prevents Grass types with secondary poison stabs from doing damage. All things considered, Chesnaught has some very unique aspects to help his leech seed fanatics.
Metagame Relevance
Chesnaught has quite a few pokemon it likes to take on, given his resists. Most of these pokemon are pretty damn hard to cover with anything else, or are common enough to warrant multiple checks/counters. However, the 4x weakness to flying, ice and fire weaknesses, as well as his slightly mediocre special defense gets him into trouble. As it is with all good pokemon, the bad is far negated by the good.
What it Takes
We all know the major threats to stall. How would it be to look at the following pokemon and go "Nah, they're not that threatening to me/my team"?
All these calcs do not take into account sets like Sub Stone Edge which is used as a cheep and easy lure in of pinsir and talonflame and turns them into the ones being countered. With Sub/Shadow Claw, Alakazam, Lati@s, Gengar, Aegi (careful of shield, scout with hammer arm), Deoxys-S and Espeon (magic bounce leech seed) all find themselves going from excellent stops to in danger of dying. The beauty of sub + coverage moves is short of Volcarona, Sylveon and Gardevoir-mega, Chesnaught flips the table on what counter/checks what.
Countered By:
For this, we will fairly assume no substitute. As all of these are generally obvious, I'm not going to post calcs.
Psychics
Latias provides the most common big problem to Chesnaught. He can leech seed as either of the twins come in and protect next turn, but that is the extent of what Chesnaught does to them. Psychics such as Espeon and Alakzam do even better, blocking any potential leech seeds.
Flying
Granted substitute rock coverage flips this hard, Pinsir-m and Talonflame still murder Chesnaught when he doesn't have a sub to hide behind. Chesnaught can at least scout Banded Talonflame as to not let his team walk into a flare blitz when you expected Brave Bird (rip skarm). Thundurus-i and Tornadus-t represent much the same issue, although Thundurus-i will often do this with HP Ice. Remember though, Hidden Power is ambiguous, never guess at it. Gliscor, Landorus-i both take advantage of their flying types to easily dismiss Chesnaught.
Fire
Much the same story as Flying and Psychic, sub EQ chesnaught eliminates the two major fire types, ZardX and Heatran. However, without a sub, both will walk all over Chesnaught. They have to be weary of becoming victim of EQ due to Chesnaught countering Aegi but they'll still give you hell once in. Volcarona gains special mention of being more closely related to the flying mons, but without being too weary of sub/rocks. Bug buzz can do max 65% though so be careful if it is sub/rock. Otherwise, Volcarona wrecks.
Fairies
Sylveon and Gardevoir gain major mention on not fearing Chesnaught at all... Well, Gardevoir hates eating a poison jab coming in, but that's very rare and not worth noting. Sylveon, using my own spread, avoids the 3hko by leftovers even from Poison Jab. Hyper voice OHKOs. Clefable is much the same way, as is Togekiss, although togekiss is closer to a flying type here as it does fear sub/rock coverage a bit and can't start parabullshit until sub is gone.
Good Teammates
I've long believed the best teammates for Chesnaught are Slowking and Sylveon. They cover each other incredibly well and Sylveon finds ease wish passing to both of them. Other teammates worth noting are Heatran/Arcanine. The edgequake resist by Chesnaught is lovely, but they also take the fire attacks, and both can take Talonflame very well.
The preferred water type for Chesnaught would have to cover Landorus-i, so AV Slowking is a good choice, as is Gyarados (which can take Charizard-Y and Landorus decently with a Spdef spread). Swampert with a spdef spread and Ice punch alleviates this, but is better off checking landorus. Gastrodon (calm 252/252) w/Ice beam is a decent option, as it can take Psychic+Earth Power and have 25% to spare as it goes after Landorus. With Leftovers, avoids 2hko from EP.
Other Options
We've discussed coverage on Chesnaught. For stall, fighting attack is basically mandatory. The choice between substitute and shield should be discussed a bit. Even through this article, I have kinda hinted at the differences between them. Protect moves always excel in scouting and similar portions whereas substitute is ironically similar to Aegislash's use in serving as an offensive platform vs pokemon the user generally can't handle. The choice is a matter of preference. Bulky teams will much prefer substitute while lighter teams and teams using Chesnaught as a more pure wall will appreciate Spiky Shield.
Taunt with speed as a replacement to Spiky Shield or Substitute allows Chesnaught to work as a stall breaker. He outspeeds Chansey and Quagsire, can outspeed 0 speed Venusaur-m with 132 speed, no boosted nature. That allows him to beat Venusaur in a long match by avoiding sludge bomb, Giga Drain and anything bar HP fire. Taunt/LeechSeed/HammerArm/EQ would be able to take opposing stall, although hammer arm could be used against you by luring it vs chansey.
Synopsis
Chesnaught is one of those pokemon that you just don't realize how good it is until you use it. The offensive and defensive presence Chesnaught make him a daunting task to take down. While he doesn't pack the most offense you've ever seen, he has solid coverage and great bulk. Learning how to implement him properly can allow you to break free of the general boring grass slot and enable a more versatile team outside of Mega Venusaur.
I do have some replays, as always. The Triremes aren't the only team I run Chesnaught on, I have three stall teams working with him right now and hopefully more in the future.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-124351163
The is a very fresh team, in fact this game was the first game I played with it. Chesnaught's sub shows off a cool moment of really, really hurting ZardX, biting it 70% as it has to break my sub first. I also get to show off some walling potential.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-122755467
Chesnaught in his Spiky Shield set will take Ttar, Excadrill and Aegislash all the same game without any clerical support (Oh my lord I was frozen for so long).
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/oususpecttest-100761311
This is a game where Chesnaught had to take Sub Toxic Aegi for most of the game. He shifted off towards the end and took Gyara-m. Leech seed pressure was very real for me.
So what do you all think? Did I convince you? You have anything to add? I haven't got any good replays of Rock Slide Chesnaught simply because I generally use him as an Aegi stop. However, I guarantee the set's effectiveness.
The access to defensive grass types in OU seems limitless. We have Venu-mega, Amoongus, Ferrothorn commonly seen on stall. Shaymin, Roserade, Tangrowth and Gourgeist-Super all have niches they can supply. Even Virizion can be used as a semi-stall component with taunt/roar access and great speed.
So why does Chesnaught stand out?
Initial Starting Set
Chesnaught @ Leftovers
Ability: Bulletproof
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Earthquake / Coverage Slot
- Leech Seed
- Spiky Shield / Substitute
- Hammer Arm / Seed Bomb
Chesnaught has a few interesting attributes that need to be handled separately.
1. Role as a Physical Wall
a. The Helpful Resists
b. Bulletproof
2.Role as a Scout
a. Personal Protect Move
b. Bulletproof as an individual scouter
3. Role as an Attacker
a. Beauty of Fighting
b. Coverage
c. Leech Seed Pressure
4. Metagame Relevance
a. What it takes
b. Checks/Counters
c. Good Teammates
d. Other Options
1. Role as a Physical Wall
In today's physical meta, the precious physical walls are very much sought after. Chesnaught sports what initially seems like average physical bulk for a mixed wall, 90/120. That is, until you realize that's the gold standard spot for a grass physical wall. Venu is 80/120. Tangrowth is 100/125. Ferrothron is 74/131 (nice stat selection, Gamefreak).
In fact, most of our walls we'd put physical add up to about 200 base between the two stats. While this doesn't mean the same bulk (typing and distribution of stats between the two both make a difference), it isn't a terrible approximation considering that the stats are roughly balanced around 100 per. Heatran is just below 200 at 90/106, Skarm is 205 at 60/145. Scizor-mega is 70/140. So perhaps a better statement would be "Chesnaught is among good company when taking into account his physical spread".
So what do we look for in a good physical wall?
- Well obviously, we want good bulk. The more, the better... preferably centered on the defense stat more than the HP stat. As seen above, we're dealing with a very much acceptable bulk level.
- We need a good typing to go along with that bulk. The typing should be relevant to the threats we face. If the typing isn't great, maybe the ability supplements it. Intimidate, Thick Fat, Filter, Fur Coat are all examples of abilities bolstering typing.
- We like to avoid major rock weaknesses so as to not be down before even entering.
- It has to be able to take care of its own health. Recover moves, Leech Seed, Poison Heal, Regenerator, all these are seen on our premier physical walls. Forcing free turns to get leftover recovery is nice.
- Lastly, it has to be able to eliminate the targets we send it to wall. Walling does not mean winning, you have to get rid of that threat, too.
Helpful Resists
Obviously bulk isn't enough when it comes to defense. Take a look at Meganium, Tangrowth, Weezing, Torterra and Steelix. All of them suffer from a bad typing. However, Chesnaught supports some incredible resists. Chesnaught supports six resists (Ground, Rock, Dark, Water, Electric, Grass) and six weaknesses (Flying, Psychic, Fire, Poison, Fairy, and Ice). Of these, not one weakness or resist could be said to be irrelevant. Poison is obviously the least relevant of all, perhaps followed by grass. As we'll see later, Chesnaught might as well be immune to poison outside a few users as well as immune to ghost. But with such a good balance of weaknesses and resists, it has definite places where it can find a niche in the metagame.
In this list, there is one combination of resists Chesnaught has that is treasured by only 5 other fully evolved pokemon useable in OU, and that's the legendary edgequake resist. Chesnaught, Breloom, Virizion, Bronzong, Flygon and Claydol are the only six pokemon in the game to have the typing and ability to gain this. That means in OU vs Excadrill or under gravity (lando being the only semi-common user), only the first three hold this.
Finally, it should be mentioned that the dark resist is an absolute godsend to stall. Resisting the OU dark users is as rare, if not rarer, than edgequake resists on stall. The reason comes from a completely different direction, that being the amount of Dark and Fight mons with recovery. This number is also 6, in terms of relevant users. Mandibuzz, Hydregion and Umbreon are the three most relevant dark mons with recovery, while Chesnaught, Virizion and Hawlucha should be the only three non-Arceus mons with recovery in fighting type.
But what about fairies? They're super common and incredibly good on stall. This would be true, if not for the fact that the most relevant dark type is Bisharp, the Iron/Dark monster that has co-defined a whole archtype of HO for almost half a year. And let's face it, if you don't cover Bisharp, you lose. A lot. And as Azumarill, Klefki and Mawile-m are the only fairies not weak to steel... Well, good luck making any of them work as a defensive pivot, especially when base form mawile just powers up Bisharp.
Bulletproof
Okay, let's be honest. Bulletproof ranks as the number one most confusing ability in the game. What moves does it cover, what gets by it? Well. Let's make a list of relevant ones and talk about what this means.
Shadow Ball, Sludge Bomb, Aura Sphere, Bullet Seed, Focus Blast, Gyro Ball, Seed Bomb, Acid Spray
If you see anything outside of this that he's immune to... well, outside of zap cannon or searing shot (usable only by Victini), I question your opponent's team building skill.
The main pokemon that now hate you include Aegislash, Breloom, Venusaur-mega, Roserade, Amoongus and most variants of Gengar. Tentacruel gengerally forgoes sludge wave for sludge bomb or Acid Spray, and so he'll dislike this. Ferrothorn and the rare Forretress absolutely want to die when chesnaught is around, getting destroyed so easily by most of Chesnaught's move pool and not being able to even hit Gyro Ball. Mega Blastoise lacking ice beam (most do) has to settle for 4hko'ing chesnaught as he gets 3hko'd or 2hko'd (seed bomb).
Remember how I said Chesnaught is essentially immune to poison and ghost? Outside Landorus, you're not going to find many Sludge Wave users. Shadow Ball is also the best Ghost move, and coupled with the physical defense, you'll be immune or not bothered by any ghost attacks.
At the end of the day, there are three major pokes that bulletproof takes away. S rank Aegislash, A+ rank Venu-m (lacking HP fire, which most do), and Ferrothorn. The rest are either rare or can choose other moves to get by Chesnaught. However, the beauty of being anti-meta is most pokemon WON'T choose to get around Chesnaught.
Role as a Scout
Chesnaught has multiple reasons he can be used as a scout for stall. His ability catches a bunch of "surprise" moves from pokemon like Gengar. His stats allow him to shrug off most physical attackers that throw in a sudden mixed attack. 88/75 is higher than Gliscor's special side, who can be used as a special wall. Lastly, he has his own deterrent protect move. If a physical attack hits, you can easily scout for items such as leftovers. All of this leads to a pokemon who can not only scout sets, but is an absolute nightmare for choice mons like Keldeo and Talonflame.
His scouting is also one of the main parts of the third point: Recovery. As Chesnaught forces switches, he's able to get his health back both by leftovers and sending in leech seed. Coupled with his own protect move, he's very adept at getting his health back to high levels.
Personal Protect Move
Spiky Shield is perhaps just as strange to us as King's Shield. You would think it would function similarly, but the functions couldn't be more different for us. The most major note is Spiky Shield is a "Full and Absolute" protect. Whereas King's Shield lets all status moves (Taunt, Wisp and similar) slip by, Spiky Shield will stop status and attacks alike. But contact moves will cause their attackers to lose 12% of their health. While not a lot, couple this with Leech Seed and you suddenly are becoming incredibly annoying.
Like all protect moves minus King's Shield, Spiky Shield works best as a scouting tool. Considering multiple pokemon coming in vs chesnaught are pokemon who easily and commonly utalize choice items (Talonflame, Specs Keldeo, Scarf Heatran, trick Rotom, CB Azumarill) as well as pokemon Chesnaught comes in against (Scarf Landorus-t, Scarf Excadrill, Band/Scarf Terrakion), this allows you to not only allow Chesnaught to safely scout for dangerous moves, but to give you the best course of action next turn. Late in the game, it forces your opponent to play safe or lose momentum.
One of the odd notes for Bulletproof is scouting intentions. Vs Latios, who often comes in, Chesnaught can find if Latios is planning on Defogging or attacking immediately. Given rock damage, you'll also find leftovers or the more dangerous life orb.
Bulletproof for Individual Scouting
Against pokemon without choice locking items, Chesnaught can use Bulletproof to switch into a predicted move like Shadow ball/Focus blast Gengar and then proceed to scout sludge wave over sludge bomb. The is especially useful vs Gengar and Alakazam if you can lure them into an obvious focus blast or Shadow ball. Scouting for whether zam runs Psychic or Psyshock as well as Gengar running Sludge wave or sludge bomb gives you a huge advantage later on.
But more importantly, pokemon like Aegislash that have 10 different sets are found out easily. Using Bulletproof as an insurance tool vs the special attacks Aegi spams, you can switch in and easily threaten Aegi out regardless of most sets. Flash cannon/Sub Toxic being the only issues. Even hit with moves like Sacred Sword and Iron Head are non-issues given Chesnaught's bulk.
Role as an Attacker
The fourth point about being a great physical wall was eliminating the threats it nails down. Chesnaught does that, having a diverse attack move pool to add to everything else. Not only that, his two stabs are pretty noteworthy.
Beauty of Fighting
On stall, hearing someone talk about fighting attacks means they're talking about coverage. Fight attacks get steel, rock, dark, ice and normal types. Three of these five types are each noted by stall for different reasons. With the five types Fight hits for Super effective damage, it also gains 7 types it hits for neutral. Four resists and one immunity makes fighting an incredible typing.
Steel is be far the most difficult type for stall to deal with because of the immunity to toxic and the sheer diversity of steels. Often, we'd like to use fire moves, but then heatran is an issue. Skarmory exists to take fighting, as does Aegislash, but the ladder isn't stopping Chesnaught.
Darks are noted because of Knock Off crushing stall teams. They also have access to pursuit, taunt and other strange moves that utilize side effects to hurt stall. However, the two main dark types (TTar and Bisharp) are 4x weak to fight. Gyarados-m, Ttar-m, Crawduant and Greninja all get special note.
Normal type is noted for one reason. Chansey. But Chansey is the epitome of normal types, so we can talk about her in the same breath as anything else you might see (P2/Diggersby being the next two non-flying non-blissey normal types on usage iirc). Having a way to deal with chansey is very neccessary, and fighting physical attacks are the absolute best way to do so (Knock off itself won't kill chansey).
The two less noted:
Ice types are generally really worthless defensively, but stuff like Kyurem-b and Mamoswine are infinitely painful for stall. Chesnaught doesn't switch in to either, nor does it stay in for Kyub, but he can deter the major ice types from coming in.
Rock types aren't noted as a whole but the two individuals worth noting are incredibly painful for stall. Terrakion and Tyranitar both give stall nightmares, Terrak for wall breaking and TTar for pursuit trapping, rock setting, and possible mega.
As a last note, against Stall, Chesnaught is very good at pressuring Chansey, walling Venusaur and annoying just about everything. It is a bit of a makeshift stall breaker once Venusaur is gone, having fight coverage to generally cut right through standard stall teams. Hammer arm making him slower will also allow him to hit Skarmory for SE damage for certain turns. Just make sure to scout for roost.
Coverage and the Substitute
Chesnaught has access to multiple coverage attacks. For this section, we'll also be considering his second stab, Grass, coverage due to the lack of help grass actually provides. The only real note I'll give grass it the ability to solve Quagsire, Keldeo and Azumarill much harder, but only works on switches or if they lock wrong for the latter two. With Earthquake, Stone Edge/Rock Slide, Shadow Claw, Dragon Claw, Wood Hammer/Seed Bomb, Poison Jab, Gyro Ball and Payback, Chesnaught has a great deal of coverage. But what should we use to help out with fight?
My personal preference is Earthquake. This means that any Aegi short of Balloon is crushed instantly and can't sub-toxic. This also helps hit grounded electrics like Raikou and Manectric on switches as well as SE hits on grounded poisons (tentacruel, Venusaur, and Nidos coming in or locked into bad moves). You do completely lose Lati@s, Gyarados, Dragonite and Landorus.
Stone Edge/Rock Slide are other good options, voiding the loss of Dragonite and Gyarados, and allowing Chesnaught behind a sub to beat Talonflame and Pinsir-mega, which is very cool. It's a much more offensive option, not offering as much for a defensive pivot but works very well with a sub set. You do have to stall out Aegi with leech seed, though.
Shadow Claw is a pretty decent option. While you have to worry about Aegislash's King Shield, you can hit Aegi, Gengar, Alakazam, Lati@s, Espeon hard, all of which can provide Chesnaught hard. This set MUST have a substitute as most of these will have Psychic. For Alakazam, Espeon and Latios, it will take two hits to kill them. However, Latios needs draco meteor to have a chance to KO (it won't have psychic). Psyshock is only a 2hko. Alakazam sporting Psyshock over Psychic will lose as he can only just deal over 50% with Psyshock. The best part is a sub will scout this for you.
The last attack worthy of real note is Poison Jab. Allowing you to hit everything in OU outside of Landorus, Aegislash and Gliscor for neutral damage when paired with hammer arm, Poison jab is a fantastic coverage move. It shouldn't be used with substitute as the set does kind of want to take Sylveon on as it switches in, and you'd be sacrificing Hit Points at that point.
Leech Seed Pressure
Leech Seed is a very simple move. You spam it at non-grass types (and avoid goodra), and you profit at the end of every turn. Generally you average about 8-10% return, but that's a hell of a lot better than the stocks in America so I can't complain. But what makes Chesnaught such a great seeder with so little speed
Well, it's a combination of everything so far. Chesnaught can come in often on multiple moves he's immune to, force them out and leech seed. He has access to a protect move, and sub seed Chesnaught is also incredibly (and I mean INCREDIBLY) dangerous. Fighting type STAB and the coverage Chesnaught has will make sure very few pokemon can come in to break his subs. Bulletproof prevents Grass types with secondary poison stabs from doing damage. All things considered, Chesnaught has some very unique aspects to help his leech seed fanatics.
Metagame Relevance
Chesnaught has quite a few pokemon it likes to take on, given his resists. Most of these pokemon are pretty damn hard to cover with anything else, or are common enough to warrant multiple checks/counters. However, the 4x weakness to flying, ice and fire weaknesses, as well as his slightly mediocre special defense gets him into trouble. As it is with all good pokemon, the bad is far negated by the good.
What it Takes
We all know the major threats to stall. How would it be to look at the following pokemon and go "Nah, they're not that threatening to me/my team"?
Bisharp
So this stupid son of a bitch has gotten a free turn to set up on you. Stall only has a few checks to this in Quagsire, some ZardX teams, and rarely I believe mandibuzz has foul play spreads to hurt.
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Bisharp Iron Head vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 227-269 (59.8 - 70.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Hurts like hell, but instant OHKO from Hammer Arm. Generally, do the bullshit flinch chance, getting a backup to Chesnaught for those times where Bisharp DOES get to +2 and DOES flinch is nice. However, I've found that you can generally get in vs bisharp before it has a chance to set up as it is so predictable anymore.
Gyarados-Mega
This monster is Dragon Dancing on you. You know it's the damn mega and that quagsire is toast. All you got to do is force it into mega and your life is easy again... Hell, even non-mega is going to struggle with leech seed or stone edge should you opt for it.
4 Atk Chesnaught Hammer Arm vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Gyarados: 216-254 (65 - 76.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252+ Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Ice Fang vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 168-198 (44.3 - 52.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+3 252+ Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Ice Fang vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 278-328 (73.3 - 86.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Even at +4, you have a chance to survive mega Gyarados. And at that point, it's your fault for letting that happen. One of the extra helps here is if you absolutely can't force it to mega, leech seed it and then sub up the next turn. The pressure itself will force them to stop dragon dancing.
Tyranitar-Mega
This thing's bulk is unreal. They're making a Godzilla remake for the umpteenth time so I guess TTar had to represent. Anyways, this thing dragon dances all over the place. Besides Quagsire, stall gets blown apart quickly with the constant sand damage and massive coverage. And let's be honest, Quagsire is so prepared for now, keeping it a whole match is rare.
4 Atk Chesnaught Hammer Arm vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Tyranitar: 324-384 (80.1 - 95%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
8 Atk Chesnaught Hammer Arm vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Tyranitar: 328-388 (95.9 - 113.4%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
+1 252 Atk Mega Tyranitar Ice Punch vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 182-216 (48 - 56.9%) -- 89.5% chance to 2HKO after sandstorm damage and Leftovers recovery
Can take up to +3 before OHKOd
+3 252 Atk Mega Tyranitar Ice Punch vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 306-360 (80.7 - 94.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after sandstorm damage and Leftovers recovery
Finishing this with Spiky Shield is generally best. Also hoping for a bit of prior damage isn't unreasonable seeing as rocks will kill and TTar doesn't generally have them cleared.
Terrakion
Note: To ANY mon facing terrakion outside of bonafide "Fuck you, Terrakion" pokes (slowbro, Celebi and Landorus-t), ALWAYS check Terrakion. However, Chesnaught CAN take a hit if you're in a real bad spot.
8 Atk Chesnaught Hammer Arm vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Terrakion: 254-300 (78.6 - 92.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Terrakion Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 160-188 (42.2 - 49.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
If nothing else, you limit terrak to dying with you as it'll do 20% to itself via Life Orb. If you check it like you're supposed, to it loses.
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 184-217 (48.5 - 57.2%) -- 46.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Band versions WILL 2hko if locked to CC, but you can delay that to a 3hko via Spiky Shield or adjust appropriately.
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 76-90 (20 - 23.7%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery
Anything else is worthless vs Chesnaught.
Aegislash
Probably the most versatile and arguably best pokemon in the tier, Aegislash counters basically automatically get a gold star. However, Chesnaught is like the ultimate Aegislash killer under conditions of Chesnaught having EQ and Aegi being down a balloon.
Shadow Ball: Immune. Just a point here.
8 Atk Chesnaught Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 110-130 (33.9 - 40.1%) -- 33.1% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Aegislash-Blade Sacred Sword vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 150-177 (39.5 - 46.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Or More Likely: (This is weakness Policy Aegi from EQ Chesnaught)
+2 0 Atk Aegislash-Blade Sacred Sword vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 115-136 (30.3 - 35.8%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
Life Orb
0 Atk Life Orb Aegislash-Blade Sacred Sword vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 75-90 (19.7 - 23.7%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery
Leftovers
0 Atk Aegislash-Blade Sacred Sword vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 58-69 (15.3 - 18.2%) -- possible 8HKO after Leftovers recovery
To wall off Sub Toxic, it is advised to run Substitute yourself. This really, really pisses Aegi off as it loses 25% when you reveal and outspeed, and you can simply break the sub, Leech seed it and have a free sub when it is forced to switch out, possibly getting leech seeds on the incoming target.
Crawdaunt:
One of those underrated Wall Breakers, Craw has adaptability dark/water coverage that makes it so obnoxious to face. Chesnaught of course has the perfect typing and bulk for him.
8 Atk Chesnaught Hammer Arm vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Crawdaunt: 264-312 (98.5 - 116.4%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Adaptability Crawdaunt Crabhammer vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 139-164 (36.6 - 43.2%) -- 98.9% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Adaptability Crawdaunt Aqua Jet vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 74-88 (19.5 - 23.2%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery
The reason we show a +1 Crabhammer and +2 aqua jet is the aqua jet is from a Swords Dance set, which lacks the speed to take Crabhammer to Chesnaught whereas the +1 is a dragon dance set which will outspeed. Sub users, Vs both, you can reliably pick up a sub and proceed to ruin their lives, as Craw will probably switch out and it doesn't provide a major threat to you.
So this stupid son of a bitch has gotten a free turn to set up on you. Stall only has a few checks to this in Quagsire, some ZardX teams, and rarely I believe mandibuzz has foul play spreads to hurt.
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Bisharp Iron Head vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 227-269 (59.8 - 70.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Hurts like hell, but instant OHKO from Hammer Arm. Generally, do the bullshit flinch chance, getting a backup to Chesnaught for those times where Bisharp DOES get to +2 and DOES flinch is nice. However, I've found that you can generally get in vs bisharp before it has a chance to set up as it is so predictable anymore.
Gyarados-Mega
This monster is Dragon Dancing on you. You know it's the damn mega and that quagsire is toast. All you got to do is force it into mega and your life is easy again... Hell, even non-mega is going to struggle with leech seed or stone edge should you opt for it.
4 Atk Chesnaught Hammer Arm vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Gyarados: 216-254 (65 - 76.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252+ Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Ice Fang vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 168-198 (44.3 - 52.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+3 252+ Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Ice Fang vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 278-328 (73.3 - 86.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Even at +4, you have a chance to survive mega Gyarados. And at that point, it's your fault for letting that happen. One of the extra helps here is if you absolutely can't force it to mega, leech seed it and then sub up the next turn. The pressure itself will force them to stop dragon dancing.
Tyranitar-Mega
This thing's bulk is unreal. They're making a Godzilla remake for the umpteenth time so I guess TTar had to represent. Anyways, this thing dragon dances all over the place. Besides Quagsire, stall gets blown apart quickly with the constant sand damage and massive coverage. And let's be honest, Quagsire is so prepared for now, keeping it a whole match is rare.
4 Atk Chesnaught Hammer Arm vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Tyranitar: 324-384 (80.1 - 95%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
8 Atk Chesnaught Hammer Arm vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Tyranitar: 328-388 (95.9 - 113.4%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
+1 252 Atk Mega Tyranitar Ice Punch vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 182-216 (48 - 56.9%) -- 89.5% chance to 2HKO after sandstorm damage and Leftovers recovery
Can take up to +3 before OHKOd
+3 252 Atk Mega Tyranitar Ice Punch vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 306-360 (80.7 - 94.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after sandstorm damage and Leftovers recovery
Finishing this with Spiky Shield is generally best. Also hoping for a bit of prior damage isn't unreasonable seeing as rocks will kill and TTar doesn't generally have them cleared.
Terrakion
Note: To ANY mon facing terrakion outside of bonafide "Fuck you, Terrakion" pokes (slowbro, Celebi and Landorus-t), ALWAYS check Terrakion. However, Chesnaught CAN take a hit if you're in a real bad spot.
8 Atk Chesnaught Hammer Arm vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Terrakion: 254-300 (78.6 - 92.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Terrakion Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 160-188 (42.2 - 49.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
If nothing else, you limit terrak to dying with you as it'll do 20% to itself via Life Orb. If you check it like you're supposed, to it loses.
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 184-217 (48.5 - 57.2%) -- 46.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Band versions WILL 2hko if locked to CC, but you can delay that to a 3hko via Spiky Shield or adjust appropriately.
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 76-90 (20 - 23.7%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery
Anything else is worthless vs Chesnaught.
Aegislash
Probably the most versatile and arguably best pokemon in the tier, Aegislash counters basically automatically get a gold star. However, Chesnaught is like the ultimate Aegislash killer under conditions of Chesnaught having EQ and Aegi being down a balloon.
Shadow Ball: Immune. Just a point here.
8 Atk Chesnaught Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 110-130 (33.9 - 40.1%) -- 33.1% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Aegislash-Blade Sacred Sword vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 150-177 (39.5 - 46.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Or More Likely: (This is weakness Policy Aegi from EQ Chesnaught)
+2 0 Atk Aegislash-Blade Sacred Sword vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 115-136 (30.3 - 35.8%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
Life Orb
0 Atk Life Orb Aegislash-Blade Sacred Sword vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 75-90 (19.7 - 23.7%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery
Leftovers
0 Atk Aegislash-Blade Sacred Sword vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 58-69 (15.3 - 18.2%) -- possible 8HKO after Leftovers recovery
To wall off Sub Toxic, it is advised to run Substitute yourself. This really, really pisses Aegi off as it loses 25% when you reveal and outspeed, and you can simply break the sub, Leech seed it and have a free sub when it is forced to switch out, possibly getting leech seeds on the incoming target.
Crawdaunt:
One of those underrated Wall Breakers, Craw has adaptability dark/water coverage that makes it so obnoxious to face. Chesnaught of course has the perfect typing and bulk for him.
8 Atk Chesnaught Hammer Arm vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Crawdaunt: 264-312 (98.5 - 116.4%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Adaptability Crawdaunt Crabhammer vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 139-164 (36.6 - 43.2%) -- 98.9% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Adaptability Crawdaunt Aqua Jet vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 74-88 (19.5 - 23.2%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery
The reason we show a +1 Crabhammer and +2 aqua jet is the aqua jet is from a Swords Dance set, which lacks the speed to take Crabhammer to Chesnaught whereas the +1 is a dragon dance set which will outspeed. Sub users, Vs both, you can reliably pick up a sub and proceed to ruin their lives, as Craw will probably switch out and it doesn't provide a major threat to you.
All these calcs do not take into account sets like Sub Stone Edge which is used as a cheep and easy lure in of pinsir and talonflame and turns them into the ones being countered. With Sub/Shadow Claw, Alakazam, Lati@s, Gengar, Aegi (careful of shield, scout with hammer arm), Deoxys-S and Espeon (magic bounce leech seed) all find themselves going from excellent stops to in danger of dying. The beauty of sub + coverage moves is short of Volcarona, Sylveon and Gardevoir-mega, Chesnaught flips the table on what counter/checks what.
Countered By:
For this, we will fairly assume no substitute. As all of these are generally obvious, I'm not going to post calcs.
Psychics
Latias provides the most common big problem to Chesnaught. He can leech seed as either of the twins come in and protect next turn, but that is the extent of what Chesnaught does to them. Psychics such as Espeon and Alakzam do even better, blocking any potential leech seeds.
Flying
Granted substitute rock coverage flips this hard, Pinsir-m and Talonflame still murder Chesnaught when he doesn't have a sub to hide behind. Chesnaught can at least scout Banded Talonflame as to not let his team walk into a flare blitz when you expected Brave Bird (rip skarm). Thundurus-i and Tornadus-t represent much the same issue, although Thundurus-i will often do this with HP Ice. Remember though, Hidden Power is ambiguous, never guess at it. Gliscor, Landorus-i both take advantage of their flying types to easily dismiss Chesnaught.
Fire
Much the same story as Flying and Psychic, sub EQ chesnaught eliminates the two major fire types, ZardX and Heatran. However, without a sub, both will walk all over Chesnaught. They have to be weary of becoming victim of EQ due to Chesnaught countering Aegi but they'll still give you hell once in. Volcarona gains special mention of being more closely related to the flying mons, but without being too weary of sub/rocks. Bug buzz can do max 65% though so be careful if it is sub/rock. Otherwise, Volcarona wrecks.
Fairies
Sylveon and Gardevoir gain major mention on not fearing Chesnaught at all... Well, Gardevoir hates eating a poison jab coming in, but that's very rare and not worth noting. Sylveon, using my own spread, avoids the 3hko by leftovers even from Poison Jab. Hyper voice OHKOs. Clefable is much the same way, as is Togekiss, although togekiss is closer to a flying type here as it does fear sub/rock coverage a bit and can't start parabullshit until sub is gone.
Good Teammates
I've long believed the best teammates for Chesnaught are Slowking and Sylveon. They cover each other incredibly well and Sylveon finds ease wish passing to both of them. Other teammates worth noting are Heatran/Arcanine. The edgequake resist by Chesnaught is lovely, but they also take the fire attacks, and both can take Talonflame very well.
The preferred water type for Chesnaught would have to cover Landorus-i, so AV Slowking is a good choice, as is Gyarados (which can take Charizard-Y and Landorus decently with a Spdef spread). Swampert with a spdef spread and Ice punch alleviates this, but is better off checking landorus. Gastrodon (calm 252/252) w/Ice beam is a decent option, as it can take Psychic+Earth Power and have 25% to spare as it goes after Landorus. With Leftovers, avoids 2hko from EP.
Other Options
We've discussed coverage on Chesnaught. For stall, fighting attack is basically mandatory. The choice between substitute and shield should be discussed a bit. Even through this article, I have kinda hinted at the differences between them. Protect moves always excel in scouting and similar portions whereas substitute is ironically similar to Aegislash's use in serving as an offensive platform vs pokemon the user generally can't handle. The choice is a matter of preference. Bulky teams will much prefer substitute while lighter teams and teams using Chesnaught as a more pure wall will appreciate Spiky Shield.
Taunt with speed as a replacement to Spiky Shield or Substitute allows Chesnaught to work as a stall breaker. He outspeeds Chansey and Quagsire, can outspeed 0 speed Venusaur-m with 132 speed, no boosted nature. That allows him to beat Venusaur in a long match by avoiding sludge bomb, Giga Drain and anything bar HP fire. Taunt/LeechSeed/HammerArm/EQ would be able to take opposing stall, although hammer arm could be used against you by luring it vs chansey.
Synopsis
Chesnaught is one of those pokemon that you just don't realize how good it is until you use it. The offensive and defensive presence Chesnaught make him a daunting task to take down. While he doesn't pack the most offense you've ever seen, he has solid coverage and great bulk. Learning how to implement him properly can allow you to break free of the general boring grass slot and enable a more versatile team outside of Mega Venusaur.
I do have some replays, as always. The Triremes aren't the only team I run Chesnaught on, I have three stall teams working with him right now and hopefully more in the future.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-124351163
The is a very fresh team, in fact this game was the first game I played with it. Chesnaught's sub shows off a cool moment of really, really hurting ZardX, biting it 70% as it has to break my sub first. I also get to show off some walling potential.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-122755467
Chesnaught in his Spiky Shield set will take Ttar, Excadrill and Aegislash all the same game without any clerical support (Oh my lord I was frozen for so long).
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/oususpecttest-100761311
This is a game where Chesnaught had to take Sub Toxic Aegi for most of the game. He shifted off towards the end and took Gyara-m. Leech seed pressure was very real for me.
So what do you all think? Did I convince you? You have anything to add? I haven't got any good replays of Rock Slide Chesnaught simply because I generally use him as an Aegi stop. However, I guarantee the set's effectiveness.
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That seems an awful like some sort of Smog article featured on Chesnaught. He's a really cool poke, and I'm glad you've (sort of) brought him into the spotlight!
I would very much agree with the "you don't know how good [Chesnaught] is until you try it" comment in the analysis. The "fabled" EQ resistance is housed only by Grass and Flying while the standard defensive type, Steel, works against you. Given your other defensive Grass types (Venusaur, Ferrothorn), the options are few and far between unless you're planning to take Celebi's massive defensive typing issues in stride. Chesnaught has some pretty big and standard holes as well for typing, yes, but it is an excellent scout and can plug some HP into the Pokemon on your team which lack easy recovery (and has on more than one occasion caused my own opponent to drop their plans and give me a few free Leech Seed KOs). Countering Bisharps hard is amazing since your options are typically fairly limited in this department (and I'm not a fan of using Quagsire as my solution).
I personally use the Hammer Arm/EQ combination as well. The only problem for me is that Gengar completely laughs at this combination as offensive pressure making it somewhat lacking as a standard Gengar counter. I really shouldn't be playing with the gamble with a 27% chance of owning a killer move (Dazzling Gleam), but...
I personally use the Hammer Arm/EQ combination as well. The only problem for me is that Gengar completely laughs at this combination as offensive pressure making it somewhat lacking as a standard Gengar counter. I really shouldn't be playing with the gamble with a 27% chance of owning a killer move (Dazzling Gleam), but...
Great analysis, Aj! It's very helpful to get a good insight about the way to use Chesnaught to it's fullest. A good defensive core needs a reliable grass type pokemon, and it's great to know about the options available.
I noticed that in one of your teams you are using MegaBlastoise as a spinner. How does that work for you?
It'd be excellent to not be relying always on Skarmory for clearing hazards, which is limiting my teambuilding creativity.
I noticed that in one of your teams you are using MegaBlastoise as a spinner. How does that work for you?
It'd be excellent to not be relying always on Skarmory for clearing hazards, which is limiting my teambuilding creativity.
I love Mega Blastoise so far. I'm experimenting with a few defensive spreads and so far have found the max Spdef spread to be much more useful than the one on that replay. Takes absolute max 50% from landorus' EP and can OHKO back with Water pulse (though not quite guarantee so I do need SOME residual, rocks is fine).
The coverage is spectacular. I beat baton pass with him, Chesnaught and Scizor earlier. To be honest, I'm surprised I've never considered him but the advantages are seemingly endless. Through my tests, him, chesnaught and chansey have been huge consistencies on that team, and scizor is looking to be the same.
He does have some downside... Switching into heatran means you're subject to burn. Need a strong cleric to help shoulder that a bit. I prefer chansey on this team because of Landorus and because Blastoise needs a cleric more often than some other pokemon. It isn't hard clericing for him. He lacks an item, doesn't get hit by what chansey draws in, beats that nasty sub wisp gengar... He literally is a godsend in many situations.
I'll see about fixing this team to as close to perfection as I can over the next few weeks as I'm finding a good bit of potential. Yuttt's been helping me with a few EV spreads (When he isn't bitching about Belly Drum Azumarill with bulk possibly surviving any killing Scizor...) and so far I've only got one or two problems outside of BP azumarill to worry about.
(bragging: kinda rare I get a win vs BP with stall if I lack my mold breaker Gyarados) http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-124975653
The coverage is spectacular. I beat baton pass with him, Chesnaught and Scizor earlier. To be honest, I'm surprised I've never considered him but the advantages are seemingly endless. Through my tests, him, chesnaught and chansey have been huge consistencies on that team, and scizor is looking to be the same.
He does have some downside... Switching into heatran means you're subject to burn. Need a strong cleric to help shoulder that a bit. I prefer chansey on this team because of Landorus and because Blastoise needs a cleric more often than some other pokemon. It isn't hard clericing for him. He lacks an item, doesn't get hit by what chansey draws in, beats that nasty sub wisp gengar... He literally is a godsend in many situations.
I'll see about fixing this team to as close to perfection as I can over the next few weeks as I'm finding a good bit of potential. Yuttt's been helping me with a few EV spreads (When he isn't bitching about Belly Drum Azumarill with bulk possibly surviving any killing Scizor...) and so far I've only got one or two problems outside of BP azumarill to worry about.
(bragging: kinda rare I get a win vs BP with stall if I lack my mold breaker Gyarados) http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-124975653
Just wondering, what is the point of Arcanine?
Interesting, it's always kind of cool to see sets before they become more widely known. Also, how do you deal w/ Lando-I w/ Knock Off?
Excuse me what, in what way is Arcanine a ZardX counter. Assuming Zard X gets 1 dd up when you switch in, here are calcs:
252+ Atk Mega Charizard X Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Arcanine: 288-340 (75 - 88.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
OR if youre gonna somehow argue the person doesnt DD and misplays:
-1 252+ Atk Mega Charizard X Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Arcanine: 192-228 (50 - 59.3%) -- 79.3% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Now arcanine calcs:
252+ Atk Arcanine Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Charizard X: 194-230 (53.8 - 63.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
I really dont see how this is a counter, it's almost the opposite.
252+ Atk Life Orb Bisharp Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Arcanine: 265-313 (69 - 81.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
this is also barely a check.
Interesting conversation at the end of that battle :'). How do you deal with other stall teams, do you run taunt on some of your mons or simply leech seed pressure and pp stall it out till the end, because all the stall teams I create I usually run one dedicated wall breaker.
- Status