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Gen 4 Staraptor's Viability? [DISCUSSION]

Discussion in 'Ruins of Alph' started by Omegaraptor, Jul 25, 2017.

  1. Omegaraptor

    Omegaraptor

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2017
    Messages:
    13
    Hello Smogon Forums! I am a new user, and interested in the Gen 4 metagame.

    So in the past, I have played a team with Staraptor in it. The set in question:

    Staraptor @ Choice Scarf
    Ability: Intimidate
    EVs: 56 HP / 252 Atk / 200 Spe
    Adamant Nature
    - Brave Bird
    - Return
    - Close Combat
    - U-turn

    and it's actually worked really well for me. The Staraptor does its job as an effective sweeper. Pretty much outspeeds and 2HKOs most things that don't resist it. The only real problem is the SR weakness and low defense.

    Has anyone else used Staraptor in OU and found it viable? If so, would you mind sharing your set?
  2. Omegaraptor

    Omegaraptor

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2017
    Messages:
    13
    So I'll probably be posting matchup info in this thread for scarf raptor, in case anyone is interested in using it.

    252+ Atk Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 40 HP / 0 Def Weavile: 288-340 (98.9 - 116.8%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
    252+ Atk Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 40 HP / 0 Def Weavile: 288-340 (98.9 - 116.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

    Scarf Raptor beats Weavile.

    252+ Atk Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Starmie: 234-276 (89.6 - 105.7%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
    252+ Atk Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Starmie: 234-276 (89.6 - 105.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

    Another good matchup.

    252+ Atk Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Rotom-Wash: 96-113 (39.8 - 46.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
    252 SpA Rotom-Wash Thunderbolt vs. 56 HP / 0 SpD Staraptor: 464-548 (142.7 - 168.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    Horrible matchup against Rotom-W. Switch out.

    252+ Atk Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Dragonite: 237-279 (73.3 - 86.3%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

    Dnite can ohko raptor, but a wounded dnite is easily taken out.

    252+ Atk Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Infernape: 540-636 (184.3 - 217%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    The great thing about scarf raptor is that it's an Infernape counter that no one ever expects because Infernape is faster and has Stone Edge. Great, huh?
    babidi1998 likes this.
  3. xJoelituh

    xJoelituh
    is a Pre-Contributor

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2014
    Messages:
    280
    Hey! I'm sorry but, If you really think Staraptor has a greater viability than it already has, you should comment it on the actual DPP OU Viability Ranking Thread.
    Besides that, it's already ranked C+ which is quite enough viable. It's well known that Staraptor is a good wallbreaker in general, and that's why it's BL(Just in case, It means BorderLine and it's there because it's broken in the belowed tier, in this case UU, and too weak for the one above). As you say, it gets a lot of OHKO, but Brave Bird has recoil, plus you probably will take Stealth Rocks damage, plus the possible sand storm damage from Tyranitar. It's a good revenge killer/late game cleaner overall, but it has many checks, like Jirachi, Heatran, Tyranitar, Skarmory, Metagross, Hippowdown and some other Pokemon. You can't really spam Close Combat, because as you should know, all Rotom forms are Electric/Ghost, and Gengar is a thing too; almost everyone will have one or the other.

    Hope you post on the correct thread next time n_n
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2017
    Omegaraptor, OrangeGuru and Luna like this.
  4. Omegaraptor

    Omegaraptor

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2017
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    Ah, thank you. I'm mostly new to these forums and don't really know much. This is meant to be more of a discussion, but I can post there next time.
  5. BKC

    BKC
    is a Team Rater Alumnusis the Smogon Tour Season 16 Championis a defending World Cup of Pokemon championis the Smogon Tour Season 22 Champion

    Joined:
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    1,618
    I admit to having a soft spot for Staraptor because of my fond memories of using him ingame in DPP just about every time I played through, but unlike his best friend Luxray I do think he is viable.

    There's no denying he's got a lot of issues (SR weak no bulk few resists UU-like coverage) but he's also got a lot going for him. He's got the golden speed tier of 100. Intimidate has been called the best ability in the game. Immunity to Ground/Ghost and resistance to Grass is not worth nothing. Most of all, it is fucking strong. Adamant CB (if I had to pick one set it'd be this) devastates nearly the entire OU metagame. It 2HKOes specially defensive Skarmory/Jirachi/Bronzong with Close Combat, for christ's sake. Brave Bird straight up 2HKOs offensive Heatran more than a quarter of the time and -1 almost always (~94%) kills offensive Gyara with SR. I could go on forever about how BB destroys resists (fucking TYRANITAR has a ~70% chance to be 2HKOed with SR) and is thus an awesome kamikaze tactic. We all know how great U-turn is as a weapon and that's how you're gonna pick your spot against defense;when using Raptor you gotta be analyzing their team from the get-go so you can figure out how to best utilize him in that particular matchup - against offense your move is usually Brave Bird unless you double him into Tran/Tar or something so the thinking comes more from how you're gonna get him in the game. This level of analysis tends to be moreso than other Pokes who you can usually autopilot with somewhat because Raptor's issues are pretty big and thus he's obviously a little volatile but his upsides make it worth it in my opinion. Double-Edge devastates Zapdos before you get any ideas about it walling Raptor's main 2 moves - even Bold has a chance to die after SR. I've even considered Giga Impact... if you use him you gotta make use of Raptor's insane power.

    I'll mention two similar Pokemon in case you think surely there's something better for his job of Brave Bird spamming monster (unfortunately not Blaziken). First, Honchkrow. Slightly higher Attack, Insomnia for Breloom, STAB Sucker Punch is a great priority attack, also gets 120 BP Fighting move (although Superpower's obviously less desirable than CC), Heat Wave to blacken steels if you wanna go mixed, a strong Pursuit for Starmie, Psychic immune means it can help against GK + HP Fire/Ground Superachi although no variant will like eating the strong Sucker Punch. Dark resist can be helpful to switch into Tyranitar. So why not use him over Raptor? Speed. Neutral Krow hits 241 and to hit 265 he has to sacrifice his power so he ends up being weaker than Star. Even then he's too slow, so many hugely important things sit between 265 and 299 and thus not doing what Raptor can; it gets less opportunities to use its immense power against offense and compromises its brutal power to (try and) work around it. The really strong priority is great but doesn't make it worth it. Krow can only dream of doing what Raptor does, outrunning an offensive Suicune and hitting it with a full-power Brave Bird for 79-93% (which is quite a decent chance to KO after SR). 299 is really good, there's a reason CB Flygon often uses Adamant as well - it loves having all the power it can get and the speed makes it still useful against offensive teams.

    The other Brave Birder to consider is Crobat, who actually sees use (albeit not so much as a CBer; 199 Lives used it in WCoP a few years ago and august used the same team the following SPL, but that's it apart from some of king SOMALIA's recent heroics). It is much, much weaker in comparison (most notably against Swampert + offensive resists) but it's faster than just about everything unboosted (and beats Ada Nite/Gyara at +1!) with non-terrible bulk to go along with its two quad resists. Plus it's still quite strong. Issues: lack of secondary coverage options and it isn't strong enough to make up for it by spamming BB in a tough spot like Raptor can. Non-Lucario steels have nothing to fear. U-turn is nice but that leads me into my second point: Bat has better things to be doing. Its standard utility set is terrific and already threatens what it needs to well enough but with longevity and Taunt against stuff it can't break and bulk.

    Raptor can do other stuff (I used to use Muscle Band BB/CC/U-turn/Roost a lot) but before you mess with that stuff I recommend giving (Adamant, Jolly is always an option of course considering his great speed tier but I promise you WILL miss the power that Raptor needs to do what he's supposed to) CB a try. That's the best thing he can do. He will cause a lot of havoc if you play/build with him heads up, promise. Of course he won't be a game-to-game MVP but there's certainly space for him in our beloved metagame.
  6. Omegaraptor

    Omegaraptor

    Joined:
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    This is the message I had meant to convey with this thread. I don't want to treat him like he does miracles and cures cancer, but despite his issues, he is an underrated threat and absolutely viable.

    I don't know much about Honchkrow, but looks like a slower Raptor that can go mixed and has better coverage (and outright counter Breloom). Maybe he might work too, I'll have to play with him on my other showdown profile and see how he is. The 71 speed kinda bugs me on paper, but maybe it'll be better in practice.
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2017

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