Data State of The Game (11/13/2011) - IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT IN POST #233

[Pallas Athena]

IAR: no one complained because far fewer people had 40+ move Pokemon. And it's kind of funny because I can find multiple places where you've said "Two subs can't cover this." Furthermore, I'm not calling for old sub rules where you could sub against everything. I'm going to use the numbers from my proposal against your Gliscir for fun.

I get two subs. I choose Dig and Fly. I miss everything due to agility.
I get three subs. I choose Dig, Fly, and Agility. While you can certainly outplay me, you aren't going to dominate the match just by the basis of having three really good moves. For instance, you could still Taunt, Torment, or Detect but couldn't keep me from doing absolutely nothing to you.

Dig and crew wouldn't be nearly so bad if there was more room to sub against them without getting ripped apart.

 

[deadfox081]

I struggle to put into words how sick I am of hearing you whinge about Dig and Fly, Red.

They cost 10+ energy to use, can be avoided by combinations and other negative priority moves and are more often than not just an energy sink for the opponent (unless you're horribly weak to the move). Worst case scenario you miss a couple of times, still use less energy than the opponent and then get to have your fun next round. Just because you didn't check the DAT thread and tried to avoid a Gliscor Dig with Magnet Rise despite changes to the mechanics doesn't make them broken. These moves were one of the major topics in a past SOTG and this lead to their increased energy cost. Its done, move on.

 

[Its_A_Random]

IAR: no one complained because far fewer people had 40+ move Pokemon. And it's kind of funny because I can find multiple places where you've said "Two subs can't cover this." Furthermore, I'm not calling for old sub rules where you could sub against everything. I'm going to use the numbers from my proposal against your Gliscir for fun.

I get two subs. I choose Dig and Fly. I miss everything due to agility.
I get three subs. I choose Dig, Fly, and Agility. While you can certainly outplay me, you aren't going to dominate the match just by the basis of having three really good moves. For instance, you could still Taunt, Torment, or Detect but couldn't keep me from doing absolutely nothing to you.

Dig and crew wouldn't be nearly so bad if there was more room to sub against them without getting ripped apart.

To be quite honest, your argument is not a very good one, because...

1. Gliscor doesn't EVEN learn Fly...Or Detect
2. The whole idea of the two sub scenario came around because of these Pokemon that can learn two of these evasive attacking moves, such as Colossoil
3. "This move can hit any single Pokemon on the field, regardless of position." By using one of these moves with this description in your main action-set, you're actually saving a substitution for another move, especially if the opponent tries to use something like Bounce
4. Two subs isn't supposed to cover everything, but you can try to limit what your opponent can do. I'm not complaining when I say it, but I do accept this fact
5. Quote from deadfox081: "Moving second is/was always designed to be an advantage, thats why it is alternated. Plus you're all forgetting that in addition to making subs you're actually ordering first. You can dictate a whole hell of a lot about what the other player is going to do based on just your own actions."
6. As what deadfox said above, Dig & crew have weaknesses & counters, which you obviously cannot comprehend with.
7. You just need to use your subs more effectively.

I still probably don't know what I'm going on about, but w/e...If anyone wants a good reason as to why we shouldn't increase the sub limit, just read through my current battle with DK. It's already chaotic with just two subs, now imagine if we had three per mon...

 

[Lord Jesseus]

What would be people's ideas of an gameplay advice thread? For those difficult decisions between possible purchases between mons, moves, or items, and so on, say. There's IRC for that sort of questions, but not everyone uses IRC.

Idk, I think it's all too easy to get onto IRC to bother making athread for it or complicating others.
Step 1: Google "Mibbit", click first result
Step 2: Search capasb in mibbit, click only result
Step 3: Choose name
And that's all there is to it

 

[Objection]

Yeah, as far as I can tell, at least half the point of substitutions is to eliminate the worst-case scenario. If your opponent has 5 moves that really screw you over, sub against the 2 moves that (you think) screw you over the most. Simples!

 

[LouisCyphre]

Double-Edge: The Pokemon slams into the opponent as hard as it possibly can with its entire body. The enormous impact of the move will make the user take 1/3rd of the damage they caused to the opponent as recoil.

Attack Power: 10 + User Weight Class/1.5 (round up) | Accuracy: 100% | Energy Cost: 6 + Weight Class/2.5 | Attack Type: Physical | Effect Chance: -- | Typing: Normal | Priority: 0 | CT: Deferring

as compared to

Brave Bird: The Pokemon spreads its wings and summons a terrible blue energy to strike the foe with a reckless, brutal charge. The Pokemon suffers 1/3rd of the damage it deals to the opponent in recoil. This move can hit any single Pokemon on the field, regardless of position.

Attack Power: 10 + User Weight Class | Accuracy: 100% | Energy Cost: 7 + Weight Class/2 | Attack Type: Physical | Effect Chance: -- | Typing: Flying | Priority: 0 | CT: Elemental

Flare Blitz: The Pokémon becomes engulfed in flames, and charges at the opponent with great force, taking recoil equal to 1/3 of the damage from the attack. It will thaw a frozen opponent, and has a chance to burn the opponent.

Attack Power: 10 + User Weight Class | Accuracy: 100% | Energy Cost: 7 + Weight Class/2 | Attack Type: Physical | Effect Chance: 10% | Typing: Fire | Priority: 0 | CT: Elemental

Head Charge: The Pokemon prepares its defense shortly before rushing into a headlong charge, dealing massive damage but taking 25% damage in recoil.

Attack Power: 10 + User Weight Class | Accuracy: 100% | Energy Cost: 8 + Weight Class/2 | Attack Type: Physical | Effect Chance: -- | Typing: Normal | Priority: 0 | CT: Passive

Volt Tackle: The Pokemon engulfs itself in electricity and slams into the foe. As a result of this attack, the user takes 1/3 of the damage that it dealt to the opponent.

Attack Power: 11 + User Weight Class | Accuracy: 100% | Energy Cost: 7 + Weight Class/2 | Attack Type: Physical | Effect Chance: -- | Typing: Electric | Priority: 0 | CT: Elemental

Wood Hammer: The Pokemon energizes one of its limbs with dangerously unstable natural energy and recklessly charges the opponent. The Pokemon receives 33% of the damage dealt in recoil.

Attack Power: 10 + User Weight Class | Accuracy: 100% | Energy Cost: 7 + Weight Class/2 | Attack Type: Physical | Effect Chance: -- | Typing: Grass | Priority: 0 | CT: Elemental

All of the 120-in-game-BP 33% recoil physical moves add the user's WC directly... except Double-Edge. Just a copy error, or intended? Hopefully the former.

 

[Objection]

[Re: ways around Dig and co.] Moves that don't have an accuracy check.

You do know that, in-game, those moves don't hit pokemon during the evasive action of Dig and Fly, right? At least, according to Veekun and Bulbapedia, they don't. Just making sure you know since I don't know whether or not this bit about never-miss moves hitting during an evasive action was a change made specifically for ASB.

 

[LouisCyphre]

Trump Card: The Pokemon smiles deviously and strikes the opponent. Trump Card's Base Attack Power increased by 3 each time it is used, up to a maximum Base Attack Power of 20.

Attack Power: 5 (Max 20) | Accuracy: 100% | Energy Cost: 8 | Attack Type: Special | Effect Chance: -- | Typing: Normal | Priority: 0 | CT: Passive

Any way we could get this to start at a higher BAP, and maintain all other attributes? It's woefully underpowered in its current state, reaching 5/8/11/14/17/20 BAP in order. Compared to, say Frustration, Return, or the like, which (using Return as an example) hit for 10/10/10/10/10/10, are doing more total damage up until the sixth use. Now, how can a mon realistically expect to fight past twelve actions (e.g. using Trump Card every other action) in order for the investedment to come around?

05 / 08 / 11 / 14 / 17 / 20
10 / 10 / 10 / 10 / 10 / 10
-5 / -7 / -6 / -2 / +5 / +15

This shows the damage difference between a 10-BAP Normal move and Trump Card, given successive uses. Trump Card has only dealt more total damage on the fifth use, which isn't likely to occur if they're being alternated with a different attack. Compare starting at 6, 7, or 8 BAP:

06 / 09 / 12 / 15 / 18 / 20
10 / 10 / 10 / 10 / 10 / 10
-4 / -5 / -3 / +2 /+10 /+20

07 / 10 / 13 / 16 / 19 / 20
10 / 10 / 10 / 10 / 10 / 10
-3 / -3 / -0 / +6 /+15 /+25

08 / 11 / 14 / 17 / 20 / 20
10 / 10 / 10 / 10 / 10 / 10
-2 / -1 / +3 /+10 /+20 /+30

These paths all lead to a return in investment an action sooner. Perhaps 6 or 7 is an appropriate starting point for Trump Card?

 

[Seven Deadly Sins]

@LouisCyphre: Might I point out that neither of those actually hit for 10 with any real reliability? I mean, having both works, I suppose, but then you're buying 2 TMs for a single 10 BP normal-type attack.

Not every attack is going to be a winner. Maybe increasing the bonus to 4 instead of 3 would make it more workable, but Trump Card is a terrible, terrible move on 8 Pokemon total, I doubt it really needs addressing.

Deadfox, I highly suggest that you fix your attitude problem.

Also yes, the only way to guarantee a hit on digging/flying opponents is No Guard or Lock On / Mind Reader. Dig still avoids Aura Sphere / Aerial Ace / the like.

 

[Tortferngatr]

BTW:

http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3454925

I think it might be good to list DW-exclusive moves in Prize Claim, similarly to how we list Gen I and II event moves. (It might also be helpful to specifically state their MC cost as 3.)

Here's the best list I could make for our DW list:

Pikachu: Sing, Teeter Dance
Nidoran-F: Sucker Punch
Gastly: Sludge Wave
Koffing: Sludge Wave
Misdreavus: Inferno
Smeargle: Sleep Talk, Captivate (yes, Smeargle actually does get them from the Dream World. Darkamber, be pleased)
Spinda: Superpower
Chimecho: Hyper Voice
Banette: Cotton Guard
Altaria: False Swipe

http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Pok%C3%A9mon_Box_Ruby_%26_Sapphire

There are also some moves exclusive to Pokemon Box we might want to include. None of them are Lovely Kiss Nidoking, but oh well.

Swablu: False Swipe
Zigzagoon: ExtremeSpeed
Skitty: Pay Day
Pichu: Surf

http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Purification#Special_moves

Purification moves coming soon.

If there are any random events/special ways to get moves I've missed (other than NYPC events in gen I and II), please mention them.

 

[Darkamber8828]

YEAH SLEEP TALK

does this help

Tickle Wynaut, Leech Seed Vileplume, Heal Bell Dragonite, Baton Pass Hypno/Solrock/Lunatone, Selfdestruct Snorlax. Pretty cool.

 

[LouisCyphre]

Should there be a way to give substitutions for environmental conditions? Ergo, the availability of Unown in Unown Soup, or the sudden draining of the arena's water source, or effects that strike without warning like meteors. Currently, there is no valid substitution type for this.

 

[Darkamber8828]

Should there be a way to give substitutions for environmental conditions? Ergo, the availability of Unown in Unown Soup, or the sudden draining of the arena's water source, or effects that strike without warning like meteors. Currently, there is no valid substitution type for this.

Pretty sure that all falls under chance substitution?

 

[Spenstar]

Proposing a change to the ability Mummy: as it is, a Pokemon with Mummy can have it used against them. This isn't an issue with its main users, Yamask and Cofagrius, but since we gave this ability to Revenankh, who always uses contact moves, I don't think it's fair for a Revenankh to have to fear its own ability.

Current ability:

Mummy:

Type: Innate

This Pokemon's skin has a lasting curse on it. When struck by an opponent's contact move, the curse transfers, changing the opponent's ability(ies) to Mummy for the next six (6) actions.

Proposed change:

Mummy:

Type: Innate

This Pokemon's skin has a lasting curse on it. When struck by an opponent's contact move, the curse transfers, changing the opponent's ability(ies) to Mummy for the next six (6) actions. This ability will not activate against Pokemon who already have Mummy.

 

[smashlloyd20]

^ good idea

 

[Athenodoros]

Further to the idea of getting rid of unwanted Pokemon that I brought up earlier by selling/giving away/deleting if necessary, I think that there should be a way of selling/trading/giving away items that aren't wanted which people no longer need or picked up from RPs like TLR.

Oh, and was there a final word on getting rid of mons?

 

[LouisCyphre]

I'd buy them, depending.

That's what I'd think should be the standard way of dealing with unwanted mons; sell them to trainers who do want to use them.

 

[Spenstar]

There is a trade thread meant to exchance unwanted mons. The idea, of course, being that one man's trash is another man's treasure. You get an unwanted mon in a TLR? Post it there.

 

[Athenodoros]

That's true, but people catch more Pokemon in TLR than they could ever want outside of it. You still need some way to lower the number of Pokemon you have.

 

[Terrador]

Or people could just resist the temptation to train mons they don't need; they can even dump them in a storage social group, a la Alchemator

 

[LouisCyphre]

Or people could just resist the temptation to train mons they don't need; they can even dump them in a storage social group, a la Alchemator

Nonsense. You can always use more mons.

The only issue with donation is the power boost it grants the recipient.

 

[Spenstar]

Mud-slap isn't on the list of moves that hit all adjacent Pokemon, and it needs to be, because it does.

 

[Seven Deadly Sins]

That's true, but people catch more Pokemon in TLR than they could ever want outside of it. You still need some way to lower the number of Pokemon you have.

As said- people can release Pokemon they don't want (though why they spent the time/cc on getting them is questionable at that point). They can trade them too. The only thing they can't do is give them away for free.

 

[Metal Bagon]

Maybe there should be an auction thread/RP where people can auction off pokemon for CC/UC. That way you could get rid of pokemon and others can obtain pokemon they want for a bargin. I would be willing to run something like this. Thought's anyone?

 

[LouisCyphre]

Is there a reason Focus Energy is only +1 crit stage in ASB, instead of +2 like in the cartidges?