Survey Discussing Future Tiering Policy

Is Qualtrics really really cool? or really really really cool?

  • Really really cool

    Votes: 13 11.3%

  • Really really really cool

    Votes: 9 7.8%

  • I want an option for more really's

    Votes: 93 80.9%
  • Total voters
    115
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Chou Toshio

Chou Toshio

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Hi everyone, Chou here with another survey to help us (The OU community administration as well as the OU Tiering Council) understand how the community feels about the current state of the metagame, and about the tiering process in general. As many of you may have noticed, we have not recently had suspect tests for specific Pokemon, as the Council has wanted to see how the meta settled, and how players adapted to the current conditions.

However, with the uncompetitive aspects of Swagger and Baton Pass having been dealt with, we have received feedback from players (both high and low in the competitive community) concerned about the need for further examination of the state of the meta.

While our OU council is independently investigating the direction of further policy, a desire for more information regarding the sentiments of the community to help further the process has been expressed.

To this end, I have designed another survey to help us get an understanding of where we are.

Subjects covered:
-Perceived Maturity / Balance of the Metagame
-Perceived need for action
-Potential future suspects*
-Pace of the current process
-Satisfaction with the current process

*Note that these have been widely selected from the upper ranks of S/A, and none of them are currently being considered for a suspect test-- though that could change based on the results of this survey.


To participate in the survey, please click the following URL: https://qtrial2013.qualtrics.com/SE/?SID=SV_7TXbT3ahUy31avz


I will close the thread in 2 weeks, or after we get 500 or so participants.

Thank you for your participation!

-Chou
 
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Just a minor error, but the question:
"On a scale of 1 through 10, how satisfied are you with the pace of suspect tests and policy decisions?"
is listed twice.

It might be a good question to ask, about how the process of suspecting is going, rather than the pace, which I've heard on the Showdown chat in regards to the latest suspect test.

Other than that, this looks like a really cool survey.
 
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This is great timing for a survey like this. I think most of us are ready for more suspect testing now that the absurd has been dealt with in Swagger and BP. Many are eager to test out a few of our current 'S' rank threats as well as possibly some that are ranked lower such as Talonflame. Now that Megas are here as an alternative for their base form (or as an alternative for another mega of the same pokemon) interesting implications rise from banning their mega stones. Say one Charizardite is banned and the other isn't: Mega Charizard of the form that isn't banned is now less effective as it loses the unpredictability factor that Charizard had before, as only one Mega can be used. Charizardite-X would likely be considered the more broken one, but would XZard still be considered broken if Charizardite-Y was banned, as unpredictability would be hindered?

The same goes for other pokemon: Tyranitar, Gyarados, Scizor etc. If their mega stones were banned, their base forms would lose the surprise factor that they now have, with completely viable base forms.

P.S. One thing to note, I believe the survey question regarding pace of the metagame was repeated on the survey with exact wording.
 
Caught that Jobes/Sidekira thanks-- don't know why Qualtricks repeated that question, but I fixed it (the 2nd one supposed to be "overall" satisfaction-- I can throw out the first 10 responses on that one, but when we get responses in the hundreds, those 10 shouldn't matter too much).

Jukain-- sorry, think we're stuck on that for a while-- take it up with the council directly
 
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^In terms of policy decisions, "Has the metagame been developed/established thoroughly into a mature metagame, or is the metagame still rough/undeveloped?"

It's not one of the most black/white questions and does ask for some individual interpretation, but please just run with it.
 
Chou Toshio i thought the last question was repeated on purpose for trolling with the trolls. I mean if they choose options w/o reading the question, it is possible that they will give different answers, and you would find out and delete his votes. lol
 
Jobes said:
This is great timing for a survey like this. I think most of us are ready for more suspect testing now that the absurd has been dealt with in Swagger and BP. Many are eager to test out a few of our current 'S' rank threats as well as possibly some that are ranked lower such as Talonflame. Now that Megas are here as an alternative for their base form (or as an alternative for another mega of the same pokemon) interesting implications rise from banning their mega stones. Say one Charizardite is banned and the other isn't: Mega Charizard of the form that isn't banned is now less effective as it loses the unpredictability factor that Charizard had before, as only one Mega can be used. Charizardite-X would likely be considered the more broken one, but would XZard still be considered broken if Charizardite-Y was banned, as unpredictability would be hindered?

The same goes for other pokemon: Tyranitar, Gyarados, Scizor etc. If their mega stones were banned, their base forms would lose the surprise factor that they now have, with completely viable base forms.

P.S. One thing to note, I believe the survey question regarding pace of the metagame was repeated on the survey with exact wording.
Click to expand...
If something is broken then it's broken; fuck any collateral.

The only things I see being suspected in the near future are the Deos, Zard X, and MAYBE Bisharp.

The Deos are the Deos, doing whatever the fuck they want stupidly well while being unpredictable.

Zard X fits on literally any team style and can sweep through the whole metagame after one boost thanks to its ungodly STAB combo.

Bisharp put immense pressure on Defoggers and doesn't even need to hit the field to provide team support. It can also sweep through entire teams after one Defiant boost and is impossible to check with Intimidators since they only make it worse. He's more borderline due to the amount of prediction required, but I can totally see him being tested later.
 
Some of the options in the "which pokemon needs to be suspected" question confuse me. I'd sooner suspect Kyurem-B and Keldeo than stuff like M-Venusaur and Talonflame.
 
I just set it at 2300+, since I accidentally clicked one and was made along to go with it. Plenty of others and myself can grab rank 1 whenever, but don't really ladder for a few reasons. There should be a couple "I don't ladder" sort of options.

Edit: I'd also like to see the move Baton Pass and the Scolipede and Magic Bounce + BP complex ban added to the list of Suspect choices, because BP is still topping the ladder and some are arguing it is just as, if not more, broken than before, because of how varied the teams are. It's no longer just a team, but a play style.
 
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Yeh I second what TFL said. BP is somewhat even more threatening now that it is diverse and now a playstyle instead of a team, I think it should be suspected again lol...
 
Concerning the "which Pokemon would you like to see supected" question, I'm not too sure why Pokemon like Charizard-Y and Talonflame are on the list, while Azumarill and Keldeo are not, despite the fact that most people would agree that the latter two are bigger threats than the former two. Wouldn't it make more sense to have the list be solely comprised of all A+ and S ranks?
 
Clefable isn't in the question about what would you see suspected next. Meh I don't know what would Haunter think about it.
 
Albacore said:
Concerning the "which Pokemon would you like to see supected" question, I'm not too sure why Pokemon like Charizard-Y and Talonflame are on the list, while Azumarill and Keldeo are not, despite the fact that most people would agree that the latter two are bigger threats than the former two. Wouldn't it make more sense to have the list be solely comprised of all A+ and S ranks?
Click to expand...

I can't speak for charY, but the viability of some things that just happen to be weak to flying has meant people just go "oh talonflame OHKOs it" and then just write it off as useless

volcarona, m-medicham, etc
 
Hm imo the order of suspects needs to be:
thunderus for its ability to check most of the meta, run physical or special sets to beat its counters.
Zard X for being able to sweep teams with much ease, be great on stall, and not know if its ZardY
DeoxysD for its reliability in setting up rocks and to beat its counters: Mirror coat, magic coat, superpower
DeoxysS- For setting up hazards and preventing opponent hazards. (Revenge killer set not broken imo)
Landorous- Very potent wall breaker, but its speed does hold it back and it does have some 4 MSS Knock off/CM for chansey, Sludgewave for fairies. Psychic for mega venu, HP ice for flying.

Nothing else really deserving of suspect test atm imo. At least till the above are done
Baton Pass was just suspected lets see how it plays out.
Aegislash strong pokemon, but not really broken
Bisharp can be devestating after a boost, but sucker punch easy to play around, unboosted kind of weak, anything with dark resist usually beats it
ZardY, Talonflame, Mega Gyara, ttar, and Venu no where near broken
 
Deo-D needs to be suspected badly. That thing has "broken" written all over it. I gave it a 9 in the survey.

It has one job. And it does that job perfectly. Flawlessly. It's harder to stop it from doing its job than it is to stop any other pokemon from doing anything else. There isn't a single pokemon in the meta who can prevent Deo-D from getting at least rocks, and if you are unlucky with red card, it gets more. Also, if you aren't packing the 3 or so pokemon who can hit it hard, it's guaranteed to get at least 2 layers of hazards, and maybe 3 or 4 depending on your luck. And even if you manage to outsmart it and allow it to lay only rocks, you're still at a disadvantage because you likely didn't lay any hazard at all, since Deo-D wins against every single hazard lead.

A single pokemon shouldn't be allowed to be that good at something.
 
I found the survey to be quite interesting. I primarily play balance and was surprised to find it not as an option. There should be a option for volt-turn and balance under the play styles options. I do not ladder very often so I agree with TFL's first point.
 
TFL said:
Edit: I'd also like to see the move Baton Pass and the Scolipede and Magic Bounce + BP complex ban added to the list of Suspect choices, because BP is still topping the ladder and some are arguing it is just as, if not more, broken than before, because of how varied the teams are. It's no longer just a team, but a play style.
Click to expand...

that's because people on the discussion thread insisted that nerfing (not even banning) 4 pokemon was too much collateral damage

honestly, i have no sympathy for people bitching about baton pass since we just finished a suspect test and the opportunity to kill baton pass was there

--

As for potential bans, Deo-D is cancer and needs to gtfo. Reasons have been explained to death on this and other threads.

Zard-X is broken, since it can easily find time to set up and sweeps teams after a boost. Zard-Y hits hard, but isn't broken like Zard-X is.

Talonflame is the most mindless thing in the meta. spam brave bird, repeat step 1 Much to my disappointment, it really isn't broken enough to justify a ban.

Everything else on the survey was fine, possible exception of Mega Pinsir. Also Landorus-I, but I haven't used it enough to have an informed opinion on its placement.
 
I do feel that the survey should have included some OP moves in the questions too, not only Mons, Stealth Rock is IMO the most broken thing in the tier, however as crazy as it may sound it is likely to be a broken thing that is healthy for the meta. I also think Knock Off, Pursuit and U-turn (volt switch) may be a bit on the overpowered side.

Other than that great survey!
 
Ninja Charizard said:
A single pokemon shouldn't be allowed to be that good at something.
Click to expand...

I don't disagree with you about Deoxys-D (though banning it won't solve anything because Klefki is gonna get Stealth Rock from the OR/AS tutors), but we do have quite a number of OU pokemon who completely eclipse everything else at their role. Chansey is the best special wall (and arguably even the best mixed wall) but she's still fine.
 
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