- Didn't respond to his argument
- Tried to make fun of his points
- Didn't provide justification for your own points
very cool.
Ok, fine.
+2 252+ Atk Supreme Overlord 5 allies fainted Kingambit Sucker Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Darkrai: 211-249 (74.8 - 88.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Tera Normal Dragonite Extreme Speed vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Darkrai: 160-190 (56.7 - 67.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Dragapult Shadow Ball vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Tera Fairy Darkrai: 178-211 (63.1 - 74.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (needs Timid to even outspeed)
88 Def Zamazenta Body Press vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Darkrai: 230-272 (81.5 - 96.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Atk Gliscor Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Darkrai: 112-133 (39.7 - 47.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
0 Atk Dondozo Liquidation vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Darkrai: 102-120 (36.1 - 42.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Darkrai: 130-154 (46 - 54.6%) -- 55.9% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Crawdaunt Aqua Jet vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Darkrai: 148-176 (52.4 - 62.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Darkrai: 218-257 (77.3 - 91.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
70/90/90 for a offensive Pokemon is definitely passable and in fact is enough, living most priority moves and being able to setup on a lot of Pokemon, especially defensive Pokemon.
Vert will make an argument about Great Tusk relying on Focus Miss for Darkrai to beat, but also later mention that Gliscor is checked by Ice Beam Darkrai, which is a good thing. However, Vert fails to realize that the fact Ice Beam is in its toolkit means it actually almost never relies on Focus Miss.
+2 252 SpA Darkrai Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Great Tusk: 668-788 (153.9 - 181.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Darkrai Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Great Tusk: 336-396 (77.4 - 91.2%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO after 1 layer of Spikes
252 SpA Darkrai Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Great Tusk: 336-396 (77.4 - 91.2%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and 1 layer of Spikes
252 SpA Darkrai Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Great Tusk: 336-396 (77.4 - 91.2%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and 2 layers of Spikes
etc.
a singular 80BP stab option
Dark Pulse STAB is not bad at all and comes with a nasty flinch chance that has made Pokemon like Toxapex in the past quiver, as it is a much less reliably Specs Greninja check when it is rolling a 20% every single time. It's also a type that, like Ghost, has few resistances. There is only one defensive Fairy Type in the tier pre Tera, and that is Clefable, which is already struggling but even assuming it gets off the ground, Sludge Bomb. The other offensive Fairy Types die to unboosted Sludge Bomb with minimal chip) Enamorus, or just dies (like Iron Valiant)
252 SpA Darkrai Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Enamorus: 242-286 (83.7 - 98.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Darkrai Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Iron Valiant: 306-360 (105.8 - 124.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Darkrai Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Clefable: 220-260 (55.8 - 65.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 SpA Darkrai Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Clefable: 440-518 (111.6 - 131.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 SpA Darkrai Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Clefable: 312-368 (79.1 - 93.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
even if it goes SpDef, Clefable doesn't even OHKO with Moonblast FYI
0 SpA Clefable Moonblast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Darkrai: 216-254 (76.5 - 90%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
spammed towards the end of home & OLT swiss:
most of these will be outdated with things such as Tornadus T, Clefable and Gliscor adding to defensive cores, but in general, let's actually look at these.
For starters, Ting-Lu cannot switch into Darkrai clicking Nasty Plot because it will lose.
+2 252 SpA Darkrai Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Vessel of Ruin Ting-Lu: 252-298 (49 - 57.9%) -- 59% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Ting-Lu Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Darkrai: 127-151 (45 - 53.5%) -- 33.2% chance to 2HKO
Let alone if Ting Lu has any chip or takes hazard damage.
Secondly, the only other Pokemon that can reasonably take on Darkrai in any of these teams are Tinkaton, Blissey and a Tera Fairy Pokemon surprise KOing it back. That's not good considering, despite what Vert says, Tinkaton is not a very good Pokemon, and a lot of its utility has been outclassed with the new distributions and Pokemon.
this is even assuming that cores will stay similar, things with Clefable Gliscor Torn T types die way harder
due to how sketch it can be coming in hard on gholdengo's make it rain or dondozo's body press for example
this is true but why would you switch in your setup sweeper like that, and you have already established something I agree with, Life Orb is ass. Defensive Gholdengo on some teams with little to no Spa Investment it can more reliably switch into Make It Rain, but otherwise you can still use it as a one time check to Gholdengo, which actually contradicts another point you make
gholdengo is another nasty mafucka so having another check / way to force it to defensive tera would be dope
sure but it can rarely actually switch in, and again, Gholdengo can just Tera Fairy or whatever; with Tera around Gholdengo is not a Pokemon it wants to even be a one time check to
slowking-g, all which commonly run thunder wave. the latter often runs colbur berry
sure if it is running twave and colbur berry but other sets get smashed 2HKO'd easily while needing a Sludge poison to 2HKO itself
lastly choice specs could be a nice middle ground of both worlds,
don't agree whatsoever honestly, HDB Nasty Plot is probably what would be used, but you want it to go Specs because that'd probably be the most managable set with Darkrai having the most prediction required. But truth is, just like arguments about how "Volcarona will check the brokens", people will play lame and run NP HDB and not use it in the ways you want as a check to a lot of threats. It will just become a new big offensive threat that pushes teams towards higher centralization.
'mons we already have such as toxapex, ogerpon-water, clodsire, heatran, moltres, tinkaton (was good pre-DLC), hoopa-u, zamazenta, sneasler, kommo-o, specially defensive rotom-w, stall blissey...
falling off,
ogrepon water not sure
clodsireis mid
heatran has fallen off and
+2 252 SpA Darkrai Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 212+ SpD Heatran: 192-226 (49.7 - 58.5%) -- 67.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
still isn't the best answer
+2 252 SpA Darkrai Dark Pulse vs. 248 HP / 248+ SpD Moltres: 216-255 (56.3 - 66.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
this is even worse because heatran can at least do leftovers protect and stall magma stormdamage making it pretty unlikely, moltres is just not a good answer
tinkaton is a good answer but not common or that good anymore, if not then that is true
+2 252 SpA Darkrai Dark Pulse vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Hoopa-Unbound: 144-169 (39.6 - 46.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
this is true if its AV and not chipped, but also is falling off and likely to be UUBL once again
zamazenta relies on being like CB and darkrai doesnt tera
+2 252 SpA Darkrai Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Sneasler: 243-286 (80.7 - 95%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 SpA Darkrai Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Sneasler: 243-286 (80.7 - 95%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and 1 layer of Spikes
+2 252 SpA Darkrai Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 40 SpD Kommo-o: 372-438 (105 - 123.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 SpA Darkrai Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 244+ SpD Rotom-Wash: 186-220 (61.1 - 72.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
stall Blissey is true but only fits on stall
i believe boots darkrai will challenge us to play more creatively instead of mindlessly throwing out our static/flame body 'mon at a threat and praying for a proc.
special attackers are easier to spam and just throw out attacks and I am surprised you do not know this already. In the grand scheme of Pokemon balance, moves wise physical Attacks have higher BP with bigger drawbacks and more checks, as Swords Dance is more common making Physical Attackers generally harder to check defensively, with better widespread coverage. Special Attackers usually have Calm Mind, a one boost a turn setup move that is mostly helpful against Special Attackers only, and have lower BP moves that benefit from spamming (flinch, lower spdef, inflict status, etc.)
if your goal is to stop mindless playing then giving us a Nasty Plot sweeper with those stats and those coverage moves is not your best option
this is also factoring tera. but if a tera ban was to happen i don't think this shit would even be A+ rank tbh
I somewhat kinda maybe agree, Tera definitely pushes it over the edge though, but also stuff will rely on surprise Tera to even beat it often at the same time
this test would have to come after DLC2 stabilizes as it will be less likely to be a "temporary metagame," along with the introduction of new priority, more speed control, and a wider array of dex additions to amplify its 4MSS.
you sound very hopeful but I really doubt this will actually be the case
my opinion: test Darkrai because it is funny, and then ban it