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Discussion in 'Dragonspiral Tower' started by diamondfan1910, Sep 26, 2010.

  1. diamondfan1910


    Dec 4, 2008
    Please note that this is not a tiering discussion. A thread on Swampert emerged on here a few days ago but it was deleted, and I don't know why. I thought I'd try my hand at writing a new one, but if there's a problem with Swampert threads please let me know so that I can delete it ASAP.

    Swampert - The Mud Fish Pokemon

    Base Stats: 100/110/90/85/90/60

    Torrent: When Swampert's HP reaches 1/3 of its maximum amount, its Water-type moves get a power boost of 50%.
    Damp (Dream World Exclusive): The moves Explosion and Self Destruct cannot be used whilst Swampert is in play.

    0x Immunities: Electric
    0.25x Resistances: None
    0.5x Resistances: Fire, Rock, Poison, Steel
    1x Neutralities: Normal, Water, Ice, Fighting, Ground, Flying, Psychic, Bug, Ghost, Dragon, Dark
    2x Weaknesses: None
    4x Weaknesses: Grass

    Swampert has been a big player in competitive Pokemon in every generation it has been available in. Generation III saw Swampert take the role of one of the best Bulky Waters available. Though it faced stiff competition from the likes of Milotic and, to a lesser extent, Ludicolo, Swampert was able to carve out a niche for itself using its high Attack stat, excellent mixed defences and fantastic defensive typing. Nothing really changed for Swampert in Generation IV but the game around it had changed a lot; attacks were hitting harder than ever, there was a Dragon-type on every team and the metagame was centered around the new entry hazard Stealth Rock. Fortunately for Swampert its defenses were more than sufficient to take quite a beating from even the hardest hitters, it was one of the best physical Dragon-type counters around and it quickly shone as one of the very best users of Stealth Rock. Swampert was one of the few Gen IV Pokemon to remain a consistent Top 20 choice throughout the years alongside giants like Gengar, Starmie and Gyarados. By the end of Generation IV, Swampert had become a Top 5 lead due to its staying power and good match ups with other leads, not to mention how good it was at setting up SR. With the ability to reliably counter massive threats like Heatran, Metagross and Zapdos, Swampert was probably the top Bulky Water in Gen IV.

    In Generation V, it doesn't look like much is going to change for Swampert. Stealth Rock is a bit more limited now and players will need to rely mostly on Gen IV Pokemon to set it up; as one of the best Gen IV Stealth Rock users, Swampert's services will likely be called upon once again. Many of the most threating new sweepers like Doryuzuu, Randorosu and Ononokusu are physically based and seem very scary, but Swampert can answer all of them with its STAB Earthquake and decently powered Ice Beam. And whilst it can be said that Swampert didn't gain much from the new games, it really doesn't need anything more than what it already has. With its excellent typing, solid defences and new toys to play with in Boiling Water and Damp, expect Swampert to be a great defensive force in the BW metagame.

    Swampert's Learnset
    Notable moves are bolded.
    New moves are italicised.
    Notable new moves are bolded and italicised, and will be explained at the bottom of each codeset.

    Level-Up Moves

    Show Hide
    Level 1: Tackle
    Level 1: Growl
    Level 1: Mud-slap
    Level 1: Water Gun
    Level 6: Mud-Slap
    Level 10: Water Gun
    Level 15: Bide
    Level 16: Mud Shot
    Level 20: Foresight
    Level 25: Mud Bomb
    Level 31: Take Down
    Level 39: Muddy Water
    [B]Level 46: Protect
    Level 52: Earthquake
    Level 61: Endeavor
    Level 69: Hammer Arm[/B]
    Level 24 (As Mudkip): Mud Sport
    Level 33 (As Mudkip): Whirlpool
    [B]Level 42 (As Mudkip): Hydro Pump[/B]

    TM Moves
    Show Hide
    [B]TM05: Roar
    TM06: Toxic[/B]
    TM10: Hidden Power
    [B]TM13: Ice Beam[/B]
    TM14: Blizzard
    TM15: Hyper Beam
    [B]TM17: Protect[/B]
    TM18: Rain Dance
    TM21: Frustration
    [B]TM26: Earthquake[/B]
    TM27: Return
    TM28: Dig
    TM31: Brick Break
    TM32: Double Team
    [I]TM34: Sludge Wave[/I]
    TM39: Rock Tomb
    TM42: Facade
    [B]TM44: Rest[/B]
    TM45: Attract
    [I]TM48: Sing A Round
    TM49: Echo Voice[/I]
    TM52: Focus Blast
    [I][B]TM55: Boiling Water[/B][/I]
    TM56: Fling
    TM68: Giga Impact
    [B]TM71: Stone Edge[/B]
    [I]TM78: Level Ground[/I] [B]TM80: Rock Slide[/B]
    TM87: Swagger
    TM90: Substitute
    TM94: Rock Smash
    [B]HM03: Surf[/B]
    HM04: Strength
    [B]HM05: Waterfall[/B]
    HM06: Dive

    Egg Moves
    Show Hide
    Ice Ball
    [B]Mirror Coat
    Mud Bomb
    [I][B]Wide Guard[/B][/I]

    Gen IV Exclusive TM Moves
    Show Hide
    TM01: Focus Punch
    TM03: Water Pulse
    TM07: Hail
    TM23: Iron Tail
    TM43: Secret Power
    [B]TM58: Endure[/B]
    [B]TM72: Avalanche
    TM76: Stealth Rock[/B]
    TM78: Captivate
    TM82: Sleep Talk
    TM83: Natural Gift
    HM08: Rock Climb

    Gen IV Exclusive Move Tutor Moves
    Show Hide
    [B]Ice Punch[/B]
    Icy Wind
    Aqua Tail
    Earth Power
    Low Kick

    Gen III Exclusive Move Tutor Moves
    Show Hide
    Mega Punch
    Mega Kick
    [B]Body Slam[/B]
    Seismic Toss
    Defence Curl

    Boiling Water: Water-type Special move, 80 BP/100 Acc/15 PP. Has a 30% chance of burning the opponent.
    Wide Guard: Rock-type Status move, -- BP/-- Acc/10 PP. Protects the user from attacks, and also protects teammates in Double or Triple battles.

    Swampert also learns Hydro Cannon and Water Oath from Gen V Move Tutors, but neither of these are noteworthy.

    Swampert's Pros and Cons

    - Brilliant defensive typing. Water is a great typing anyway with four key resistances and only a couple of weaknesses, but Water/Ground is arguably even better. Trading a Water and Ice resistance for a Rock and Poison resistance and an Electric immunity is a great deal, and Swampert only has one weakness as a result. Fortunately, this weakness is to Grass-type moves and not only are Grass-type moves uncommon, but it's easy to know when they're coming since they're only used as STABs (or on a couple of specific sweepers). Swampert needs to be more wary of surprise Hidden Power Grass on stuff like Magnezone, Heatran and Zapdos, all of which often run HP Grass purely for Swampert.
    - Great defences. 100/90/90 defences might look underwhelming, but Swampert has key resistances to the main STABs of a lot of threatening Pokemon, most notably Rock, Fire and Electric. This means it can take quite a beating before going down, and Wish support isn't even necessary.
    - Good movepool. Between its Ground, Water and Ice attacks, Swampert can hit pretty much any opponent with a decently powered attack. It also gets some great support options like Roar and Yawn, a great setup move in Curse, and of course the infamous Stealth Rock.
    - Great new ability. The only thing stopping Swampert from becoming a 100% Heatran/Non-Mixed Metagross counter was the fact that both of them could just blow up on him and end his life. Damp stops this from happening and can also stop Randorosu from blowing up on Swampert, thus making Swampert a better counter to these Pokemon in Gen V. Unfortunately, Damp is incompatible with Stealth Rock. However, Explosion and Self Destruct no longer halve the Defence stat of the targetted Pokemon (giving them effective Base Powers of 500 and 400 respectively) which means Damp might not be all that necessary on Swampert after all, since Heatran and probably Metagross will be unable to OHKO it with Explosion. Still, if your Swampert isn't using Stealth Rock, Damp is a great ability choice on a defensive set.
    - Theoretically able to counter some huge new BW threats. As I mentioned earlier, many of the new BW threats are either part Ground or part Dragon. Swampert has the moves to deal with pretty much any Ground or Dragon type besides Gen IV Ubers and argubaly Sazando (Ice Beam doesn't quite hit hard enough), so expect it to be a staple on defensive and balanced teams alike. It also has the means to deal with the new-and-improved Blaziken, as well as most Shanderaa.
    - Immunity to Sandstorm and resistance to Stealth Rock. These attributes are hardly rare, but they're always nice to have.

    - Has a crippling 4x weakness. Grass is an uncommon attacking type - it is resisted by loads of common Pokemon and it only hits three types for Super Effective damage. However, Swampert is a massive defensive threat for many sweepers and they often run Hidden Power Grass to tackle him. The long and the short of it is that if you get hit by a Grass-type move, you're dead.
    - Fairly low damage output. 110/85 attacking stats are pretty good for a tank, but the standard Swampert runs very few Attack/Special Attack EVs and thus deals very little damage to things. If Swampert can't hit the opposing Pokemon for Super Effective damage, it's probably not gonna be doing much to it.
    - No reliable recovery move (thanks to Forte for reminding me of this). Gastrodon, Milotic, Burunkeru and Quagsire get Recover, Vaporeon gets Wish, Swampert gets... oh. Yeah, Swampert can't really heal itself outside of Rest, which now forces you to sleep for 3 turns and is even more useless in the 5th generation. At least it cures you of status... Still, Swampert often doesn't stick around for as long as you'd hope since he can't heal himself outside of Leftovers.

    Moveset Ideas

    Mixpert's New Groove
    Swampert@Leftovers/Shed Shell
    Relaxed Nature
    EVs: 252 HP/252 Def/4 SpA
    ~ Earthquake
    ~ Ice Beam
    ~ Stealth Rock/Boiling Water
    ~ Boiling Water/Roar/Yawn/Wide Guard or Protect/Stone Edge

    This has been the bread and butter Swampert set for two generations of Pokemon and there's no reason for it to change now. Earthquake is a powerful STAB move which hits everything that doesn't resist it hard, whilst Ice Beam smacks Flying-types with a Super Effective move and makes Dragon-types cry and Stealth Rock is an incredibly good entry hazard. The last slot has several viable options. Boiling Water is a great new move which trades a bit of Surf's power for a 30% burn chance - a worthy trade-off if you ask me. A burn lessens the amount that Swampert takes from physical attacks even more and hence makes it a better tank. I expect its main use will be against Gyarados (should Gyarados even stay OU) but other Swampert switch-ins will hate to be burned, like Life Orb Latias and MixMence who think they're clever getting in on Earthquake, or even Shed Shell Nattorei, which is pretty much a 100% Swampert counter. Boiling Water should also do quite a number to Skarmory and might allow Swampert to eventually beat the steel bird. Roar is always good for phazing and Yawn accomplishes the same thing really, plus putting something to sleep is always nice; Swampert is bulky enough to pull phazing off quite effectively. Protect was great on Gen IV Mixpert as a scout and it's just as good here, but Wide Guard gets a mention for Double/Triple battles since it protects the whole team (remember that Wide Guard is incompatible with Stealth Rock). Finally, Stone Edge hits Gyarados hard as well as hitting sweeping Zapdos harder than Ice Beam, though Boiling Water is probably better against Gyarados for the burn chance. Hydro Pump and Toxic are also options for the last slot, but they were inferior in Gen IV and probably won't see much Gen V use either.

    The EVs are standard for a defensive wall, with a Relaxed nature so as not to ruin Ice Beam and Boiling Water. In late Gen 4 Swampert started to run a few Special Defence EVs to take Heatran's Fire Blasts and stuff, but it's gonna need all the Defence it can get to stand up to repeated beatings from Randorosu and Doryuuzu. The remaining EVs are chucked into Special Attack to give Ice Beam that little bit more bite against Dragon-types. Leftovers are easily the best item for Swampert and you probably think I'm mad suggesting Shed Shell, but it could come in handy in case Shanderaa and Goth Psychic start to trap weakened Swamperts a lot (Shanderaa in particular, since it's gonna be on every team). Swampert's moveset should decide his ability - use Torrent with SR and Damp without SR. Boiling Water is slashed with Stealth Rock in case you have another Stealth Rock user and want Swampert to be a pure tank; if you're using SR you have two free moveslots and there's no excuse not to use Boiling Water.

    Careful Nature
    EVs: 252 HP/40 Def/216 SpD
    ~ Curse
    ~ Rest
    ~ Earthquake/Waterfall
    ~ Sleep Talk

    Pretty much ripped this from the analysis site, it might work in BW. Curse because... it's a Curse set, and Rest for healing. Rest makes you sleep for three turns now so you really can't afford to not use Sleep Talk, hence why it isn't slashed with anything. Earthquake vs Waterfall is sort of a pick-your-poison deal; Earthquake is more powerful, but Waterfall is more reliable and nothing is immune to it barring Water Absorbers. 252 HP EVs give a lot of bulk, whilst 216 SpD EVs let Swampert hit the last bonus point. The rest of the EVs are dumped into Defence. Unfortunately, Damp is incompatible with Sleep Talk, so you're stuck with Torrent.

    Non BW Pokemon: Swampert is hard to take down, but Grass-types have no trouble with it. Celebi and Shaymin take lolworthy damage from Ice Beam and can OHKO it with STAB Grass-type moves. The Rotom forms still have an easy time against Swampert, barring Rotom-H since Swampert resists both of its STABs and hits it for Super Effective damage with Boiling Water. Rotom-C and Rotom-W will easily beat Swampert though, with Leaf Storm and Hydro Pump respectively. Defensive Zapdos (basically, any Zapdos which invests in HP) with HP Grass can beat Swampert as well, as can Gyarados which can use Swampert as setup fodder (though Gyarados must be extremely careful of Boiling Water). Ironically, although Swampert was the most popular Bulky Water in Gen IV it has trouble beating other Bulky Waters; Vaporeon, Suicune and Milotic can all beat Swampert one on one. Finally, the Lati twins don't really like Ice Beam and won't be mad on Boiling Water burns either, but they can take most of Swampert's attacks and OHKO it with Specs Draco Meteor.

    BW Pokemon (be warned - these are theoretical!): Nattorei (the new Grass/Steel Forretress) was made to beat Swampert! It resists Water-type moves and has massive defensive stats to take Earthquake and Ice Beam with, and it can OHKO Swampert with STAB Power Whip. The new jellyfish Burunkeru should be able to beat Swampert too, with Water Absorb making Boiling Water useless. The fearsome Shanderaa cannot switch into Swampert's STABs, but once it's in it can trap a weakened Swampert and kill it with Shadow Ball. Sazando (Dragon/Dark Hydra) also fares well against Swampert, as it doesn't take much damage from Ice Beam and can put the hurt on Swampert with a more powerful Draco Meteor than Latias.

    So, what do we think of Swampert this generation? Will it be just as awesome a defensive pivot as ever, or will the incredibly high powered new Pokemon prove to be too much for it? Discuss!
  2. Forte.EXE


    May 22, 2010
    I think you forgot to add one more con to Swampert's list. Still no reliable Recovery move outside of Rest. Seriously, it's been two Generations, and Swampert's still stuck with Rest. Also, Choice Band Swampert has a decent damage output, and it's bulky enough to switch in and out. Wish Support would be invaluable for Choice Swampert. Oh, and Life Orb Heatran still beats Swampert with Hidden Power [Grass].
  3. Wynought


    Sep 12, 2010
    Jirachi + Swampert provide pretty adequate synergy. Making Wish support from Jirachi very reliable.
  4. GtM


    Jun 3, 2009
    A 4x weakness to grass isn't exactly crippling... Water/Ground is still amazing typing. Grass isn't common at all, and you can just add a Heatran or Scizor to your team if you really mind, or maybe even a Herbivore if you fancy being tricky. The biggest problem would be predicting whether the opponent runs Hidden Power Grass, but you can usually tell if Heatran runs it.
  5. diamondfan1910


    Dec 4, 2008
    Any 4x weakness is crippling, because it's pretty much an instant KO. Grass is just a little easier to handle than other 4x weaknesses.
  6. Raikaria


    May 20, 2009
    Hmm, why is the Swampert thread so dead?

    Anyway, I've been using Swampert as a staple of my Bulky Offense team on PO, to great sucess. It's a slight varient on Mixpert... it lacks the Mix, it carries Waterfall to deal with Uragamosu.

    Anyway, Swampert still stops many things in their tracks. He's one of the best answers to a Dory who's switched in safely, as he can take a +2 Earthquake, hit back with his STABS, or even just Roar it away.

    Swampert is also an excellent partner to Nattorei. Resisting Fire, taking most fighting attacks like nothing is great. Freeing up a moveslot for Nattorei [Stealth Rock] is even better. Nattorei x4 resisting Grass is just iceing on the cake.

    I've forced teams to ragequit with Swampert's Phazeing ability, combined with the hazards set by my team, simply because they can't touch Swampert.

    Swampert is certainly one of the best physical tanks in the game. Still.
  7. GtM


    Jun 3, 2009
    A weakness to grass gives you a free pivot to Scizor or Urugamoth, who might not normally be able to switch in. Lots of things four times resist grass, like Nattorei and Heatran too. It's worth baring in mind that he has no other weaknesses, too. So it's actually more of a blessing than a curse, since it'd one big, exploitable weakness rather than lots of little faults.
  8. IcyMan28


    Sep 18, 2008
    Not to mention that grass attacks can usually be seen coming from a mile away, with the exception of Grass Knot (which is still standard fare on several things that have the option of running it).
  9. Banryu


    Feb 26, 2009
    That's not always the case.... there were certain threats last generation who will always keep you guessing with their Hidden Power, like Magnezone... will it run HP Ice, for Dragons? Or HP Grass, for Swampert? You never knew...

    Actually, I think the Grass weakness may prove a bit more troublesome this time around. :0 With all the new Rock / Ground / Water-type threats coming into play, Grass attacks' usage may see a rise compared to last generation.

    Still, Boiling Water on Swampert is pretty cool. Given the high burn rate, though, couldn't Swampert allocate some of those Defense EVs to one of its offensive stats? Or even Sp. Def?

    Also, I think that Boiling Water should be stuck firmly in the third slot in the OP... it seems like it's almost necessary to deal with a lot of stuff, and no doubt Swampert's team appreciates the support. Stealth Rock, since it's a 4th-Gen move and many people may opt for Damp, should be slashed over all the stuff in the fourth slot, IMO.
  10. DDRMaster


    Jun 26, 2008
    I have a feeling a lot of Swampert won't even be running Boiling Water. Last gen, Swampert rarely ran Surf and chose to simply run SR/EQ/Ice Beam/Protect. Protect won't be as useful this gen with the Explosion nerf, but Swampert still has the choice of running Roar like quite a few did last gen.
  11. SJCrew

    SJCrew Believer, going on a journey...
    is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Jun 22, 2008
    Boiling Water is incredibly useful for Pert, especially with all of the new threats it needs to accommodate that EQ and Ice Beam just won't do it for anymore. Balloon alone could stop him in his tracks when it comes to the things he's supposed to check, like Heatran, Doryuuzu, and Blaziken. To circumvent that, it'd be handy to have a STAB Water attack on hand, especially one with a useful side effect that only helps him do his job.

    A major problem I'm seeing with Pert overall, however (and I suspected this all throughout Gen 4) is that he's not potent enough to take on most of the standard metagame's new threats. +2 Dory and Blaziken will run him over, so will Garchomp and Mence, he can't do anything at all to Roopushin, etc. Let's not forget Hippowdon, Nattorei, and Burungeru completely usurping his spot on teams.

    With only 100/90 Defenses, the best he can do is set up SR and phaze a couple of things before dying. All of the metagame's most popular threats at the moment have no problems getting past him or just running right through him.
  12. IcyMan28


    Sep 18, 2008
    Magnezone almost never ran HP Grass; it was either Ice or Fire. The main culprits of HP Grass were either Zapdos or Jolteon, I believe, as the former at least could switch in and screw around. The increased use of Grass-types isn't really anything new, as their attacks will still be seen from a mile away, while the inclusion of all the new dragons will leave HP Ice the hidden power of choice (as it also covers Ground).

    This. Swampert's role is as a bulky tank that can dish back hits while providing team support in the form of a burn, Stealth Rock, and possibly phazing. There are plenty of unboosted threats that Swampert can check, such as +0 Doryuuzu, Urugamosu, etc. I wouldn't rely on it to be the be-all end-all wall that it was 3rd gen (since really, 4th gen pushed it more into the bulky physical tank role), but it will definitely make its presence felt.

    EDIT: A simple set of Ice Beam / Earthquake / Boiling Water / Stealth Rock could be all that Swampert needs.
  13. Manaphy


    May 5, 2010
    Swampert didn't change much in this Gen, although the playing field has. I don't think he can stand up to what he's used to in Gen 5 anymore. 100/90/90 Defenses can only get you so far. Not to mention Grass- attacks are more common then they used too. After playing on PO for awhile, I can tell you that Swampert is very rare compared to last Gen. He's not doing much either, just Setting up SR and Roaring some things out, and with some luck burning something. In the end of it all, I thin he'll still submerge as a threat, and a reliable way to get up Stealth Rock.
  14. The3DOstrich


    Aug 26, 2010
    Also, the addition of Mischevious Heart pokemon with Taunt can cause trouble for Swampert's sets and possibly KO it, such as a Borutorosu with HP Grass. It may not be as powerful as it was in Gen IV, but it still can run a few sets quite effectively.
  15. boyofrito


    Sep 30, 2010
    I don't know if this has been said before, but what about a mini Wobuffet set?

    Swampert @Leftovers
    -Mirror Coat

    like a mini not broken wobuffet
  16. Murkglow


    Sep 21, 2010
    It's not like Swampert was a speed demon or anything. I doubt priority taunt is really a big deal for him.
  17. KCR


    Feb 7, 2010
    my swampy has outrage, and it has killed some amused dragons...
  18. Immaterial


    Sep 19, 2010
    ... why would you ever want to use Outrage over Ice Beam on Swampert?
  19. soon


    May 29, 2010
    This is what I am running, so far so good, but need trainer's very good judgment to bring its potential out.

    Mirror Coat
    Stealth Rock

    SR is no longer allowed in 5th gen WIFI battles, am I right??
  20. Ferdie


    May 27, 2007
    I don't know about Swampert usefulness but do you realize how bulky he is?
    100/90/90 are great defences. Think about Burunkeru who takes physical threats wel with only 100/70 defences. I know Recover makes Burunkeru better but I just wanted to say that 100/90/90 defences are pretty good.
  21. Torchic


    Dec 23, 2009
    Use Rinbo Berry to counter shandera is useful.
  22. Niched


    Mar 3, 2009
    Sleep talk is not compatible with damp, and now that gastrodon gets water immunity...

    Walls can't not have recovery this gen, which forces Torrent... which forces BUT GASTRODON... At least it got boiling water.
  23. KCR


    Feb 7, 2010
    well... since my swampert has been trained on attack and outrage is more powerful...
  24. IcyMan28


    Sep 18, 2008
    Rubbish. For one, Gastrodon is not as bulky as Swampert is and does not have the utility of Stealth Rock, Roar, and good offensive stats on both ends of the spectrum.

    Swampert has fulfilled the role of a physical tank since Gen IV, not flat out walling.
  25. BurningMan

    BurningMan fueled by beer

    Dec 21, 2009
    Poor Swampert he got almost nothing this gen while everything else gets better and better (well not everything but a lot of stuff^^).
    Damp would have been great in Gen4 where it got bombed into oblivion from metagross and heatran all the day, but with explosions nerf it wont be much of a use (actually it might hinder you if something weak cant blow up on you :/ ).
    Boiling Water is great, but almost every water type gets it and the 30% chance is far from reliable and if you got a bad day you just burn that guts robushin that now kills you more easily.
    Still no instant recovery sucks hard because both other Water/Grounds get recovery and both got excellent abilitys with Gastrodons improved Storm Drain and Quagsire might gets Unaware wich is one of the best defensive abilitys that exist.
    100/90/90 are solid defenses, but there is so many extremly hard hitting stuff that it might be a little too less even with that good defensive typing.
    Nattorei, Shandera, Lati@s , Salamence, Garchomp, Breloom, Doryuzu (Swampert won't like a +2 EQ and don't think that Boiling Water will KO it) , Sazandora, Robushin, Jarlorda are some of the biggest threats this gen and all can plow through him.
    Not to mention that Spikes are way more common and really hurt him as he got no way to recover back the health lost.

    However its not all Shit for him he still got his very good 110 base Attack and an usable 85 base SpA, a resistance to SR and an excellent defensive and offensive typing and his move pool isn't bad too.

    Swampert needs to adopt to the metgame and i think he will come out as a more offensive Pokemon that will utilize Choice Band and Curse to pose a threat rather than stop them as he did last gen.

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