Swirlix and Gligar have been banned

[HeDancesWithSwords]

I agree completely, but I still don't think that having to analyse your team less, and perhaps play slightly less carefully due to swirlix's absence, will make LC a worse place to be in, and it certainly isn't as bad as banning something and then having other things become broken in it's absence.
If swirlix is removed, it will not make any pokemon more viable (at least not notably so), and it will probably make teambuilding a lot easier.

 

[Expulso]

Another negative thing about Swirlix is how much it restricts teambuilding. Every team must carry one or more of LO Fake Out+BP Meditite (Which is already a good mon, however), a SturdyJuicer like Magnemite with Defog support, Foongus, Koffing, Tentacool, Skrelp, HazeKrow, Wooper and Grimer, and many of those need Defog support to live, while others must die themselves. Basically, it's very hard to prepare for, especially on a defensive team; if you fight a Swirlix, you can only use that Pokemon to beat it, and it can't do anything else.

Gligar also does this same thing. It causes many Pokemon who wouldn't normally need it to carry Ice coverage, like Misdreavus. Also, it forces too many speed ties, which can decide the outcome of a game. However, Gligar's checks are more useful overall than Swirlix's.

 

[prem]

tbh i have made teams with none of those and i just kill swirlix before it can gset up.

that being said my simple opinion:


swirlix is a broken piece of shit. its ability to punish you for a free turn of setup is ridiculously dumb and that unburden boost is ridiculous. all three sets require something differnt to beat it and all three sets can be thrown on a team without any kind of thought. its actually pretty hard to OHKO and if you fail to do it it gets full health again AND a +2 speed boost. its really dumb and not something that can be handled without over preparing for.

gligar isnt actually broken imo. its really good at everything it does and it does basically everything, but almost all of them have the same set of checks. it is obviously unhealthy for the metagame because of its ability to do everything but the pokemon itself is not broken. its basically the only good offensive user of sr and restricts teambuilding like crazy when you run hp ice on like half your mons just to kill gligar on the switch, not even lure it. if we just went by the "ban only what is broken" philsophy, id say dont ban it; but obviously its getting banned anyway because of what it does so who cares :)

 

[SevenSins]

Is Gligar Broken? Obvious Answer: Yes.
Let me begin by saying that when the XY metagame began gligar was not broken. Many people ran defensive gligar sets the way gligar had been played in BW UU. I did the same for a while. But then, the dreaded Berry Juice Sub SD set was discovered, and Gligar wreaked havoc on the whole metagame. It's very easy to sweep with gligar. All you have to do is come in on a support mon or a mon that poses no threat to gligar, such as ferroseed, bronzor, mienfoo, or koffing (among others). The Opponent is forced to switch, allowing gligar to obtain a free sub or +2 Att. This makes gligar practically unstoppable, as sub protects it from W-O-W and Stun Spore, and a +2 acrobatics can 2HKO (If not OHKO) almost anything in the meta. People also started overcentralizing over gligar. They started running icy wind on Misdreavus. These feeble attempts to stop Gligar did not last long though.

If not offensive Gligar, defensive Gligar is a huge threat. It can tank a +6 play rough from Swirlix: +6 252 Atk Swirlix Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 236 Def Eviolite Gligar: 18-22 (78.2 - 95.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO. Need I say more?

That leads me to the point of Swirlix. Is Swirlix Broken? Obvious Answer: Yes.
Running 3 dangerous Move Sets ( CGCM, BD, and CM 3 Att ), Swirlix made a splash in the metagame. With the unbanning of berry juice, Swirlix is able to get a free calm mind, cotton guard, or belly drum and quickly restore all of it's health as long as it can tank a hit. Futhermore, Swirlix gets a +2 speed boost with unburden when it uses its berry juice. This made swirlix a terrifying sweeper. Overcentralizing occurred on Swirl's part as well. Although there was an increase in Koffing and Grimer that added variety to the metagame, negative overcentralizing also occurred. Prankster Haze on Murkrow was invented to stop Swirlix's sweeps.

Ban these two, make LC a happier place :D

 

[Holiday]

To steer away from this discussion, I will share a pretty cool replay showing just how powerful Gligar is. I made some super dumb plays in the beginning and I thought I was screwed once Tirtouga set up, but Gligar brought it back from 5-2 to 0-2, getting me third place in the small LC tour we did in the room.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/lc-85913095

 

[chimp]

To steer away from this discussion, I will share a pretty cool replay showing just how powerful Gligar is. I made some super dumb plays in the beginning and I thought I was screwed once Tirtouga set up, but Gligar brought it back from 5-2 to 0-2, getting me third place in the small LC tour we did in the room.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/lc-85913095

tbh Daddy didn't really have anything to prepare for a Gligar in this situation, except maybe Tirtouga but he already lost it early in the game.

 

[Shaymin :D]

tbh Daddy didn't really have anything to prepare for a Gligar in this situation, except maybe Tirtouga but he already lost it early in the game.

It just proves that if you get rid of the few things that can deal with Gligar (Tirt in this case), it can sweep even in a very bad situation, proving that Gligar is just really powerful.

 

[Holiday]

It just proves that if you get rid of the few things that can deal with Gligar (Tirt in this case), it can sweep even in a very bad situation, proving that Gligar is just really powerful.

I agree with this statement. Gligar obviously has issues with scarf HP Ice pokemon, Ice Punch Elekid and (in this case) a Tirtouga that has set up. When removed by other teammates, Gligar can, is, and will be until a ban, an over-centralizing and raw force in the Little Cup Metagame.

 

[Wobbyble]

It just proves that if you get rid of the few things that can deal with Gligar (Tirt in this case), it can sweep even in a very bad situation, proving that Gligar is just really powerful.

This applies to just about everything with any sort of offensive power @_@

 

[Shaymin :D]

This applies to just about everything with any sort of offensive power @_@

Completely True, but with Gligar, its Amazing Attack, Speed, and decent bulk, along with Few Weaknesses, there are only a handful of things that can stop its sweep. Since there are so few, you need to have them on your team, and if they die when Gligar is ready, you lose.

 

[blarajan]

less dumb please

 

[chimp]

Completely True, but with Gligar, its Amazing Attack, Speed, and decent bulk, along with Few Weaknesses, there are only a handful of things that can stop its sweep. Since there are so few, you need to have them on your team, and if they die when Gligar is ready, you lose.

lol this applies to any sweeper though. Thankfully (unlike a certain sentient cotton candy) all of Gligar's sets can be checked but the same pokemon, so I don't think its limiting team building by all that much.

 

[Expulso]

lol this applies to any sweeper though. Thankfully (unlike a certain sentient cotton candy) all of Gligar's sets can be checked but the same pokemon, so I don't think its limiting team building by all that much.

SubSD: Checked by Slowpoke
Knock Off > Sub: Not checked by Slowpoke

SubSD: Revenged by Chinchou
ScarfGar: Not revenged by Chinchou (if locked into EQ or not locked into anything)

Gligar w/o U-Turn/Baton Pass: Checked by Shellos, Wooper
With U-Turn/Baton Pass: Gligar can get out to another 'Mon and sweep

Need I continue?

 

[tcr]

Is Gligar Broken? Obvious Answer: Yes.
Let me begin by saying that when the XY metagame began gligar was not broken. Many people ran defensive gligar sets the way gligar had been played in BW UU. I did the same for a while. But then, the dreaded Berry Juice Sub SD set was discovered, and Gligar wreaked havoc on the whole metagame. It's very easy to sweep with gligar. All you have to do is come in on a support mon or a mon that poses no threat to gligar, such as ferroseed, bronzor, mienfoo, or koffing (among others). The Opponent is forced to switch, allowing gligar to obtain a free sub or +2 Att. This makes gligar practically unstoppable, as sub protects it from W-O-W and Stun Spore, and a +2 acrobatics can 2HKO (If not OHKO) almost anything in the meta. People also started overcentralizing over gligar. They started running icy wind on Misdreavus. These feeble attempts to stop Gligar did not last long though.

If not offensive Gligar, defensive Gligar is a huge threat. It can tank a +6 play rough from Swirlix: +6 252 Atk Swirlix Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 236 Def Eviolite Gligar: 18-22 (78.2 - 95.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO. Need I say more?

A lot lives +6 Play Rough/ Return, actually. Lileep, Foongus, Slowpoke, etc. The common similarity is that none of those including Gligar can OHKO Swirlix back. A pokemon doesnt suddenly become broken. If it wasnt broken when the XY metagame began, it isnt broken now. Running a move to hit a common pokemon is actually quite common on random things even in other tiers. For example, in BW OU Terrakion sometimes ran HP Ice to get past Landorus and Gliscor. Random things can run HP Fire to deal with Ferrothorn, or Ferroseed (I run HP Fire Foongus for example). Simply because a pokemon runs HP Ice doesnt necessarily mean that Gligar is centralizing the meta (Though I think it does, but even with that im agains tban) it simply means that people use it on stallish pokemon so they can not be set up bait. I.e. HP Ice Lileep.

"They started running Icy Wind on Misdreavus"
Thats not really a bad move. Misdreavus doesnt need a 4th move and the last slot on Choiced Misdreavus was pretty much always fililer to begin with. Be it Nasty Plot, WoW, or Thunderbolt, or something similar, it was always up for grabs, similar to a lot of Swirlix sets. Icy Wind also hits opposing Misdreavus who try and go for aspeed tie or something, Murkrow, etc.

 

[Ashley11]

lol gar can also knock off the scarf on chinchou on the switch, bye chinchou. :] and yeah, if you play gligar smart enough, It can easily sweep. Like anything like shellos and wooper, that can take a hit and ko back, you just have to u-turn out and it is still a win. You have your momentum and the advantage from having your counter in against their gligar counter.

 

[Wobbyble]

The ONLY time I've ever seen Scarfgar is in Generation IV. It has non existant usage and hardly any niche as Scarf Gligar has no use other than pulling off surprise butt sex revenge kills. This is different than discussing Baton Pass Gligar, or double boosting Gligar because they have niches, although low usage.

IMO the discussions gotten pretty unproductive since halfway through Page 5 lol, should probably try to keep things relevant to the actual metagame and stop pissing on each other.

 

[chimp]

SubSD: Checked by Slowpoke
Knock Off > Sub: Not checked by Slowpoke

SubSD: Revenged by Chinchou
ScarfGar: Not revenged by Chinchou (if locked into EQ or not locked into anything)

Gligar w/o U-Turn/Baton Pass: Checked by Shellos, Wooper
With U-Turn/Baton Pass: Gligar can get out to another 'Mon and sweep

Need I continue?

The only set Chinchou doesn't revenge is lolscarfgar but if its revealed to be holding a scarf then its at least easier to play around. Besides, Chinchou only loses that fight if its locked into EQ. You shouldn't be switching Chinchou into gligar anyway.
The only set Slowpoke doesn't check is with Knock Off. Besides, slowpoke can just switch out, restore health and not care about any of its other moves (60 BP Knock Off vs Slowpoke = 0.4% to 2KO), while crippling it with scald.

 

[Nebuchadnezzar]

Wobbyble I would just like to point out that I actually run Scarf Gligar on one of my teams because it has the fastest U-turn and Knock Off in the game, plus it has amazing coverage with EdgeQuake. It clearly isn't the best set, but it has its uses on some teams.

 

[Professor Birch]

IMO the discussions gotten pretty unproductive since halfway through Page 5 lol, should probably try to keep things relevant to the actual metagame and stop pissing on each other.

That is because it did. Everyone had set their personal opinion forward and then there are those that are just coming to argue with the opinions that others had. The main point I have seen is that they Swirlix is versatile while Gligar is really hard to take down and has near perfect coverage.

 

[SevenSins]

A lot lives +6 Play Rough/ Return, actually. Lileep, Foongus, Slowpoke, etc. The common similarity is that none of those including Gligar can OHKO Swirlix back. A pokemon doesnt suddenly become broken. If it wasnt broken when the XY metagame began, it isnt broken now. Running a move to hit a common pokemon is actually quite common on random things even in other tiers. For example, in BW OU Terrakion sometimes ran HP Ice to get past Landorus and Gliscor. Random things can run HP Fire to deal with Ferrothorn, or Ferroseed (I run HP Fire Foongus for example). Simply because a pokemon runs HP Ice doesnt necessarily mean that Gligar is centralizing the meta (Though I think it does, but even with that im agains tban) it simply means that people use it on stallish pokemon so they can not be set up bait. I.e. HP Ice Lileep.

"They started running Icy Wind on Misdreavus"
Thats not really a bad move. Misdreavus doesnt need a 4th move and the last slot on Choiced Misdreavus was pretty much always fililer to begin with. Be it Nasty Plot, WoW, or Thunderbolt, or something similar, it was always up for grabs, similar to a lot of Swirlix sets. Icy Wind also hits opposing Misdreavus who try and go for aspeed tie or something, Murkrow, etc.

What you say is true, though I still think its over centralizing. Icy wind on Misdreavus only hits gligar for decent damage. Misdreavus would rather run moves with more coverage or support, such as thunder bolt, dazzling gleam, will o wisp, or pain split, not some dinky 55 BP ice type move that can only hit a flying scorpion. As for your example with Terrakion, Gliscor and Landorus are big threats to Terrakion itself. Terrakion fears an earthquake that will OHKO it. Gliscor and Landorus did not terrorize the BW OU meta. On the other hand, Misdreavus now runs icy wind to deal with gligar, not because Misdreavus fears a super effective attack that will OHKO it (except for the rare knock off), but instead because gligar is a huge threat to the ENTIRE meta.

 

[Antar]

A pokemon doesnt suddenly become broken. If it wasnt broken when the XY metagame began, it isnt broken now.

I think that the decisions we make *do* have the potential of "breaking" previously "unbroken" Pokemon. If the elimination (banning) of one threat means that a set on another Pokemon that was previously unviable is now not only viable but overpowered, I think a Pokemon can *easily* go from "not broken" to "broken." One example of this might be if we were to ban Knock Off (as a large number of users advocated). In that case, a number of Eviolite users and Sturdy+Recyclers who were kept in check by Knock Off's prevalence might drift towards broken.

I'm quibbling, but that sentence just struck me as false.

 

[dsr95]

Starting off my post by making it clear that Ashley11 has basically said everything I wanted to say. Regardless, I'll put things out in my own words and show why I believe Swirlix and Gligar deserve to be banned.

1) Is Gligar broken?
In my opinion, Gligar is slightly broken. It has amazing stats, movepool and typing but getting ready for it isn't mostly too hard because we have things like Misdreavus who can burn it, Murkrow's Icy Wind can either kill or cripple its speed, Scarf Pokemon with an ice move get rid of it most of the time, among other Pokemon that can take down a non-set up Gligar. The only thing that could make Gligar seem broken would be the use of Swords Dance Gligar w/Knock Off. SD Gligar with Knock Off implies all you need is 1 setup turn and you're ready to go. Scarf Pokemon can't switch into its Knock Off or else they get KOed by Gligar's amazing STAB moves and defensive Pokemon are all 2HKO because removing Eviolite makes them frail enough to be picked off by STAB.
Another reason for me to say Gligar is broken is how it can do so many different sets and there's pretty much no way of knowing the set so Gligar is basically a ticking time bomb sweeper just waiting for the right moment to come out and sweep or a huge wall that is hard to break down with Eviolite. The usage stats for January revealed the fact that Gligar has about 40% usage overall and I'm pretty sure that shouldn't sit right with anyone because when you think about it, "What can Gligar NOT do?". You need a setup Sweeper? SD w/Knock Off and STAB or SD Sub set with STAB. You need a Defog user? Offensive Defog set and Defensive Defog set. You need a pivot? U-turn Gligar's your bat! You have a weird Toxic stalling fetish? Gligar can do that as well! You need a fast Taunt user? Gligar's got this. There is literally 0 drawbacks to using Gligar because of its versatility and most of the time you can pair it up with an ice resist and that's pretty much as far as you'll need as to support and that's not even 100% necessary because honestly speaking...
232+ SpA Chinchou Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 76 SpD Eviolite Gligar: 20-28 (76.9 - 107.6%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
That's cute, Chinchou, but sorry, you can't even OHKO defensive Gligar with 4x weakness attacks
If this isn't unhealthy for the metagame, I don't know what is.

1) Is Swirlix broken?
Yes, yes and yes. I'll go right to the point and say Swirlix is broken due to the versatility of its sets. In my opinion, the only sets that are borderline broken are Belly Drum and Cotton Guard + Calm Mind.
Belly Drum Swirlix is literally the most infuriating thing you'll ever find on the metagame unless you're too busy looking at Prankster ParaFusion. First off, if your team's not carrying a Meditite, it's over. But wait, like 98% of all the Pokemon, Swirlix can learn Protect! This automatically removes Meditite as a 100% counter to Swirlix because Bullet Punch only does about 60% of Swirlix's health and this turns Meditite into a shaky check to Belly Drum Swirlix. What's that? Now you say Ferroseed walls Protect BD Swirlix? Ah, don't worry, you can change up Protect and according to Game Freak's logic, cotton candy can breath fire, so Swirlix can learn Flamethrower! That's nice, isn't it? This completely removes Ferroseed from the counter list and adds Meditite back in, but then again, how would you know which moves its carrying, let alone which of the 3 movesets its carrying? We also know that Belly Drum Swirlix likes to be a sneaky little Thief and take Berry Juice from unsuspecting turtles, crabs and cyclops magnets. All 3 of these or any other Sturdy Juice user worth talking about cannot just switch in on Swirlix and do anything if Stealth Rocks are up and if you're saying Defog makes it hard for Rocks to be kept up, then sorry, losing the Berry Juice itself is basically saccing the Pokemon because of the huge number of priority users you may use to pick them off once their juice is gone. Then there's other Pokemon who may be able to take Play Rough from +6 Swirlix
+6 252+ Atk Swirlix Play Rough vs. 196 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Slowpoke: 24-28 (85.7 - 100%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
(24, 24, 24, 24, 24, 25, 25, 25, 25, 25, 27, 27, 27, 27, 27, 28)
Yeah, so it needs a high damage roll to kill but then again, 1 hazard is all it takes for it to kill it off, since Stealth Rocks would lower 3HP from it and then... the chances of the kill increase by a lot, with only 5 damage rolls containing 24HP damage. Also, the best Slowpoke can do to Swirlix if it gets lucky is Thunder Wave and... Swirlix also learns Aromatherapy!
Now, let's pretend you played the battle thinking the opponent was going for a BD sweep but suddenly they used... Cotton Guard? Now, how is your Meditite going to kill it? I'm sorry but it can't. Cotton guard + Calm Mind is nearly unbeatable when played right without you using something obscure like HazeKrow, Wooper or had to resort to toxic stalling. Knock Off off may also be used but it uses Draining Kiss to heal so you won't get too far with that. CGCM Swirlix pretty much has all the coverage in the world having STAB Draining Kiss for recovery and having Surf, Flamethrower, Thunderbolt, Psychic and... Energy Ball? Sorry Wooper, but if people caught up with this, you wouldn't have been so useful to me. Of course, some of these moves would reduce coverage by a lot but the point is that it can use it and just run over your checks if it wants to.
There is literally nothing else to be said about this sweet, edible monster knowing it has completely different counters by switching 1 move or 2 which is stupid when you realize it's running a completely different set overall.

2) Is Swirlix / Gligar making Little Cup not fun?
Gligar's over-centralization and overuse are making Little Cup less fun, yes. Because running into a Pokemon 40% of the time is not healthy for the metagame. Swirlix... having to make a 50/50 guess that decides the battle and having to run multiple checks to it (Treecko said you need two checks to it and you would be "usually" fine? What?) limits team-building options a lot.

3) Is a combination of 1 and 2 deterring individuals from playing Little Cup?
I've seen people get bored of Gligar and Swirlix and leave. Not that many, like 2-3. Also, there's still the "FUCK GLIGAR/SWIRLIX" messages we all know and love. :D

These are my thoughts regarding Gligar and Swirlix. If someone feels I said something that is off... let me know ;3

 

[SevenSins]

Starting off my post by making it clear that Ashley11 has basically said everything I wanted to say. Regardless, I'll put things out in my own words and show why I believe Swirlix and Gligar deserve to be banned.

1) Is Gligar broken?
In my opinion, Gligar is slightly broken. It has amazing stats, movepool and typing but getting ready for it isn't mostly too hard because we have things like Misdreavus who can burn it, Murkrow's Icy Wind can either kill or cripple its speed, Scarf Pokemon with an ice move get rid of it most of the time, among other Pokemon that can take down a non-set up Gligar. The only thing that could make Gligar seem broken would be the use of Swords Dance Gligar w/Knock Off. SD Gligar with Knock Off implies all you need is 1 setup turn and you're ready to go. Scarf Pokemon can't switch into its Knock Off or else they get KOed by Gligar's amazing STAB moves and defensive Pokemon are all 2HKO because removing Eviolite makes them frail enough to be picked off by STAB.
Another reason for me to say Gligar is broken is how it can do so many different sets and there's pretty much no way of knowing the set so Gligar is basically a ticking time bomb sweeper just waiting for the right moment to come out and sweep or a huge wall that is hard to break down with Eviolite. The usage stats for January revealed the fact that Gligar has about 40% usage overall and I'm pretty sure that shouldn't sit right with anyone because when you think about it, "What can Gligar NOT do?". You need a setup Sweeper? SD w/Knock Off and STAB or SD Sub set with STAB. You need a Defog user? Offensive Defog set and Defensive Defog set. You need a pivot? U-turn Gligar's your bat! You have a weird Toxic stalling fetish? Gligar can do that as well! You need a fast Taunt user? Gligar's got this. There is literally 0 drawbacks to using Gligar because of its versatility and most of the time you can pair it up with an ice resist and that's pretty much as far as you'll need as to support and that's not even 100% necessary because honestly speaking...
232+ SpA Chinchou Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 76 SpD Eviolite Gligar: 20-28 (76.9 - 107.6%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
That's cute, Chinchou, but sorry, you can't even OHKO defensive Gligar with 4x weakness attacks
If this isn't unhealthy for the metagame, I don't know what is.

1) Is Swirlix broken?
Yes, yes and yes. I'll go right to the point and say Swirlix is broken due to the versatility of its sets. In my opinion, the only sets that are borderline broken are Belly Drum and Cotton Guard + Calm Mind.
Belly Drum Swirlix is literally the most infuriating thing you'll ever find on the metagame unless you're too busy looking at Prankster ParaFusion. First off, if your team's not carrying a Meditite, it's over. But wait, like 98% of all the Pokemon, Swirlix can learn Protect! This automatically removes Meditite as a 100% counter to Swirlix because Bullet Punch only does about 60% of Swirlix's health and this turns Meditite into a shaky check to Belly Drum Swirlix. What's that? Now you say Ferroseed walls Protect BD Swirlix? Ah, don't worry, you can change up Protect and according to Game Freak's logic, cotton candy can breath fire, so Swirlix can learn Flamethrower! That's nice, isn't it? This completely removes Ferroseed from the counter list and adds Meditite back in, but then again, how would you know which moves its carrying, let alone which of the 3 movesets its carrying? We also know that Belly Drum Swirlix likes to be a sneaky little Thief and take Berry Juice from unsuspecting turtles, crabs and cyclops magnets. All 3 of these or any other Sturdy Juice user worth talking about cannot just switch in on Swirlix and do anything if Stealth Rocks are up and if you're saying Defog makes it hard for Rocks to be kept up, then sorry, losing the Berry Juice itself is basically saccing the Pokemon because of the huge number of priority users you may use to pick them off once their juice is gone. Then there's other Pokemon who may be able to take Play Rough from +6 Swirlix
+6 252+ Atk Swirlix Play Rough vs. 196 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Slowpoke: 24-28 (85.7 - 100%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
(24, 24, 24, 24, 24, 25, 25, 25, 25, 25, 27, 27, 27, 27, 27, 28)
Yeah, so it needs a high damage roll to kill but then again, 1 hazard is all it takes for it to kill it off, since Stealth Rocks would lower 3HP from it and then... the chances of the kill increase by a lot, with only 5 damage rolls containing 24HP damage. Also, the best Slowpoke can do to Swirlix if it gets lucky is Thunder Wave and... Swirlix also learns Aromatherapy!
Now, let's pretend you played the battle thinking the opponent was going for a BD sweep but suddenly they used... Cotton Guard? Now, how is your Meditite going to kill it? I'm sorry but it can't. Cotton guard + Calm Mind is nearly unbeatable when played right without you using something obscure like HazeKrow, Wooper or had to resort to toxic stalling. Knock Off off may also be used but it uses Draining Kiss to heal so you won't get too far with that. CGCM Swirlix pretty much has all the coverage in the world having STAB Draining Kiss for recovery and having Surf, Flamethrower, Thunderbolt, Psychic and... Energy Ball? Sorry Wooper, but if people caught up with this, you wouldn't have been so useful to me. Of course, some of these moves would reduce coverage by a lot but the point is that it can use it and just run over your checks if it wants to.
There is literally nothing else to be said about this sweet, edible monster knowing it has completely different counters by switching 1 move or 2 which is stupid when you realize it's running a completely different set overall.

2) Is Swirlix / Gligar making Little Cup not fun?
Gligar's over-centralization and overuse are making Little Cup less fun, yes. Because running into a Pokemon 40% of the time is not healthy for the metagame. Swirlix... having to make a 50/50 guess that decides the battle and having to run multiple checks to it (Treecko said you need two checks to it and you would be "usually" fine? What?) limits team-building options a lot.

3) Is a combination of 1 and 2 deterring individuals from playing Little Cup?
I've seen people get bored of Gligar and Swirlix and leave. Not that many, like 2-3. Also, there's still the "FUCK GLIGAR/SWIRLIX" messages we all know and love. :D

These are my thoughts regarding Gligar and Swirlix. If someone feels I said something that is off... let me know ;3

Dsr did his homework. I completely agree, though I think he cuts gligar a bit too much slack.

 

[dsr95]

Dsr did his homework. I completely agree, though I think he cuts gligar a bit too much slack.

I didn't talk THAT much about Gligar because the reason for ban stands on how it does every role possible and how it can sweep with its broken SD set.
Question #2 explained the rest of what I meant.

 

[rhinopatomus]

1. Swirlix yes (although I think the combination of belly drum, unburden and berry juice more so)
Gligar no- just really powerful
2. Swirlix yes- little opportunity cost to set up (that damn unburden ability)
Gligar yes- seriously restricts teambuilding
3. Possibly.
Swirlix definitely should be banned (or at least its damn belly drum set)
Gligar can go either way. Ban him and it will be interesting to see how the meta develops. Don't ban him (or her) and life will go on and players will find ways to spheal with it.