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Syclant Analysis (Part II)

Discussion in 'Create-A-Pokémon Project' started by tennisace, Dec 14, 2008.

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  1. tennisace

    tennisace
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    Original: http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1061816#post1061816

    With all the revisions, this needs a change. I'm going to post my edit soon once I look at statistics and all that, but some major changes are coming.

    Disclaimer: This is for people who have been on the server and actually TESTED it, not pure theorymon.

    [SET]
    name: Tail Glow Sweeper
    move 1: Tail Glow
    move 2: Ice Beam
    move 3: Bug Buzz
    move 4: Earth Power / Hidden Power Fire
    item: Focus Sash / Life Orb
    ability: Mountaineer
    nature: Timid
    evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This is a very threatening set. Put 114 Special Attack and 115 Speed together with great offensive typing, and throw in arguably one of the best stat-up moves in the game, and this is the result. Tail Glow, Ice Beam, and Bug Buzz form the core of the set, boosting Syclant's Special Attack to sky high levels.</p>

    <p>The last slot is best occupied by Earth Power, which deals with threats like Infernape, Tentacruel, non-scarf Heatran, and Lucario. However, Hidden Power Fire is an equally viable option, though you lose some coverage while using it. It will completely annihilate Scizor and Forretress, and leave a large dent in Bronzong. Blizzard is another option over Mountaineer with Compoundeyes, boosting it's accuracy to around 91%, or with Hail support, making it's accuracy nearly perfect. Be aware that while using Compoundeyes, you take 50% from Stealth Rock, so Rapid Spin support is strongly advised if you want to live.</p>

    <p>Focus Sash is the best option for an item, as it allows you to get in one more hit before dying to something like a Stratagem Paleo Wave or Scizor Bullet Punch. However, with Sandstorm teams running amok, Life Orb is useful for the extra power it provides, albeit with the negative side effect of losing 16.25% of your health in Sandstorm.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Swords Dance Sweeper
    move 1: Swords Dance
    move 2: X-Scissor
    move 3: Ice Shard / Ice Punch
    move 4: Brick Break
    item: Focus Sash / Life Orb
    ability: Mountaineer
    nature: Jolly
    evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This set is the physical equivalant of the Tail Glow set, with slightly higher Attack than Special Attack at base 116. However, it has slightly worse coverage. X-Scissor and Ice Shard are your main STAB attacks, and are particularly effective at eliminating most of Syclant's main switch-ins, due to their higher Special Defense on average. Ice Punch is a good option over Ice Shard if you want more power in exchange for the loss of priority.</p>

    <p>The last slot is best occupied by Brick Break, allowing it to hammer most Steel-types harder than it's other attacks. However, Shadow Claw is an option to hit Revenankh for Super Effective damage, as well as Aerial Ace. Dig is an option if you're in need of a ground move on Syclant, but the two turn charge-up is quite undesireable. As for the item, Focus Sash is once again the main option, with Life Orb as an option. Mountaineer is compeletely recommended over Compoundeyes due to all the moves being 100% accurate.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Choice
    move 1: Ice Beam / Blizzard
    move 2: Bug Buzz
    move 3: Earth Power
    move 4: Hidden Power Fire/ Air Slash
    item: Choice Specs / Choice Scarf
    ability: Mountaineer
    nature: Timid
    evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This set has the ability to do massage damage to most of the OU metagame, provided you predict right. Bug Buzz, Ice Beam, Earth Power provide excellent coverage on most of the OU metagame, with a few exceptions. Hidden Power Fire can work in the last slot to hit Steel-type Pokemon (save Heatran), but Air Slash can demolish Revenankh and other Syclant. If you wish, you can use a Modest nature and a Choice Scarf with the same set to become a better revenge killer, but you lose a significant amount of power doing so. Mountaineer is the preferred option for the ability once again, so Syclant can switch in more.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>A Choice Band Set can be put together to surprise Syclant's counters who are usually special based, however it's not that great and is outclassed by the Swords Dance set. U-turn can be used for scouting on choice sets, since most of it's counters can be trapped with either Dugtrio or Magnezone. Night Slash, Crunch, and Shadow Claw are specific options to hit Psychic-types and Ghost-types. However, the low base power is slightly off-putting. Rock Slide is an option to deal with other Bug-types and Ice-types, as is Fire Fang. Counter can be abused with Focus Sash to get rid of a pesky threat like Tyranitar or Scizor, sacrificing yourself in the process. Return can be used for neutral coverage, but is generally inferior to anything else Syclant has.</p>

    [EVs]

    <p>EVing Syclant is quite simple. Just put 252 EVs in Speed, and then 252 EVs in whatever attack stat you're using. It's futile to go mixed, as it doesn't allow Syclant to OHKO anything notable.</p>

    [Opinion]

    <p>Syclant can tear through some of D/P's prestige walls, but is extremely high maintenance. Its typing is a mixed bag. It has two wonderful STABs for an offensive Poke, but is hindered by a horrible SR weakness, and two glaring 4x weaknesses. Mountaineer takes care of this, but leaves it using a weaker STAB. If you can keep Syclant in good condition then it will be a great asset to your team.</p>

    <p>In order to survive, Syclant relies on its extremely powerful and accurate STAB moves and its impunity to Stealth Rock. Taking either one of these away will weaken it significantly. If it is running the Compound Eyes ability, an opponent that can use Stealth Rock and prevent them from being spun away will stop Syclant in its tracks. If Syclant is using Abomasnow's hail for 100% Acc Blizzard then your own weather changer will hinder it.</p>

    [Counters]

    <p>Scizor is Syclant's best counter, only fearing the rare Hidden Power Fire, and OHKOing with Bullet Punch with or without a Swords Dance. Scarf Heatran can also dispatch of Syclant quite easily, toasting it to a crisp with any of its Fire-type moves; Stratagem works the same way and can outspeed Syclant and OHKO with any Rock-type move. Tyranitar can easily survive a Bug Buzz and OHKO with Stone Edge; Bronzong and Forretress can survive an attack and OHKO with Gyro Ball. Machamp can survive most attacks and OHKO with Stone Edge. Blissey can shut down any special-based Syclant with it's amazing defenses. As far as general counters go, Bulky Water-types do a good job of shutting it down and setting up on it, particularly CM Cune.</p>
  2. Infiltrator

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    What about Tail Glow Air cutter Clant with LO slim chance of countering Rev and Pyroak . Might try it tonight on the server.
  3. tennisace

    tennisace
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    "Other Options", Air Slash has a higher base power anyway lol.
  4. Lawman

    Lawman

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    With Life Orb and Stealth Rock, You can Guarentee the OHKO on a 4/0 Heatran with 315 Attack, or 188 EVs, and against 0/4 Heatran with 317 Attack, 196 EVs.

    Sooo, I'm thinking Naive Life Orb 196 Atk / 116 SpAtk / 196 Speed? That hits 346 like you said and guarentees the ohko on most heatran.

    Wait, why not 200 to outspeed instead of tie +nature Infernape?

    [SET]
    name: Mixed Sweeper
    move 1: Ice Beam
    move 2: Bug buzz
    move 3: Superpower
    move 4: Substitute / Tail Glow
    item: Life Orb
    ability: Mountaineer
    nature: Naive
    evs: 196 Atk/ 112 Satk / 200 Spd

    [SET COMMENTS]
    Syclant has the ability to tear through many of the most common walls in D/P/P. Ice Beam is a great STAB in the OU Metagame and Bug buzz provides a strong STAB that deals with many opponents. Superpower is used over Brick Break as it allows for you to OHKO Heatran with Stealth Rock, and there is also an approximate 90% chance of OHKOing Blissey with Stealth Rock down. Substitute is preferable if you do not want to risk mispredicting, which will often force Syclant to switch out. It is also useful to absorb Thunder Waves from the likes of Blissey and Zapdos. Tail Glow can also be used to make your special attacks even more powerful if you are confident in your predicting skills. Focus Sash is an option if Tail Glow is preferred, but with Tyranitar being common as well as numerous forms of spikes, it shouldn't be used without a weather changer or a Rapid Spinner.
  5. SgtWoodsy

    SgtWoodsy

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    Superpower and Focus Blast are not on this list, so they can't be used in any of the sets.

    If you're going to use a Fighting move, you're stuck with Brick Break or HP Fighting.
  6. eric the espeon

    eric the espeon maybe I just misunderstood
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    There are several variants of TG Syclant, which makes it a little complected.
    Some run LO, some Sash. Sash is normally used with Mountineer, unless its a lead (Lead Ant could work, maybe its own set?) LO can be used with Compoundeyes or Mountaineer. Blizzard only works with Compoundeyes, except on a hail team.

    Counters needs a lot of changes, Tenta no longer walls most sets (needs calcs, but I doubt it can take a TG'd EP), Blissey/Snorlax/Regice are now almost perfect counters, the new Bullet Punchers can take it out, and a few other things.
  7. TekkenStorm

    TekkenStorm

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    Also im gonna add a Compoundeyes set, even though its almost the same as the tail glow one, this one is generally used as a lead mostly. maybe merge them? even though that would add some confusion

    [SET]
    name: Leadant
    move 1: Tail Glow
    move 2: Blizzard
    move 3: Bug Buzz
    move 4: Earth Power
    item: Focus Sash
    ability: Compoundeyes
    nature: Timid
    evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]
  8. tennisace

    tennisace
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    Exact same with different ability=mention in set comments.
  9. sbc

    sbc

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    Isn't Earth power illegal with Tail Glow or was the egg group shiz changed around?

    Needs a U-turner set also since Scylant trapping especially with Dugtrio and Magnezone for inevitable Heatran and Scizor is pretty devilish. I admit I haven't tested this yet but a set along this line was posted before by raikoulover iirc.

    counters:

    forrestress, poliwrath, scizor, blissey, hariyama, scarftran
  10. tennisace

    tennisace
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    Platinum Tutor says it gets Earth Power, making it legal. Everything is nuts now =/. However, I will make a U-turn set.
  11. Blln

    Blln

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    I think HP Fire might be deserving of a mention somewhere. You lose coverage on Tentacruel and Heatran, but in exchange you get a way to nail Bronzong, Forretress and Scizor (although for Scizor you have to predict the switch or else eat a Bullet Punch), while still hitting Metagross decently hard. Maybe not the best option, but I still feel it's at least worthy of other options, if not a mention in Set Comments.

    I also don't really see much reason to use HP Fighting on the Tail Glow set. I suppose it's nice to be able to KO Tyranitar without having to stat up (I'm assuming - I haven't run any calcs), but aside from that I'm struggling to think of a situation where you would want HP Fighting over Earth Power aside from I guess Levitate Stratagem, who you can only hit on a predicted switch in anyway.

    Edit: oof, didn't realize the bronzong thing, that was stupid lol
  12. eric the espeon

    eric the espeon maybe I just misunderstood
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    Bronzong/Meta take more from STAB Bug Buzz than HP Fire, but I suppose a mention in OO for hitting Scizor/Forry may be worthwhile.

    Tar will take more from Bug Buzz than HP Fight, its main use would be for.. urm.. yea. Whats the point of HP Fight?

    Also can't we comment on the bits you've done already tennis?
  13. Time Mage

    Time Mage

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    Actually, eric, HP Fighting should hit TTar a bit harder than STAB Bug Buzz:

    Bug Buzz: 90*1.5*2 = 270
    HP Fighting = 70*4 = 280

    The difference is negligible, and I don't think it is enough to use HP Fighting over Bug Buzz, but it's there.
  14. eric the espeon

    eric the espeon maybe I just misunderstood
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    Good point, then I suppose HP Fire would also do a little more to Meta/Zong than Bug Buzz.

    But yea, HP Fight does not look like a great option to me. Its not beating Blissey/Snorlax/Regice with it, unlike Focus Blast and now that EP is allowed... meh OO at best. HP Fire has some good points to it with the rise of Scizor, but loseing a lot of power against Heatran/Most steels/allmost all Fires mens that EP should be the main option.
  15. tennisace

    tennisace
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    Can we stop talking about other options before I post other options? I've just been really busy shoveling out snow, and there's about 6 more inches to come. I'll write it up now, but calm down everyone and stop posting, k?
  16. sbc

    sbc

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    Erm HP Fighting is doing what on the Choice set except being less powerful than Ice Beam and around as powerful as bug buzz. I'd much rather U-turn in that slot to scout the default switch in and to not reveal that you are a choice pokemon straight away or HP Fire for the Scizor OHKO.

    In general HP Fire > HP Fighting if choosing between HP and Earthpower. HP Fighting is just inferior to Earthpower and largely redundant whilst HP Fire can actually kill a common switch in.
  17. tennisace

    tennisace
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    Everyone can post now. I didn't add a mixed set because it wasn't powerful enough and wouldn't OHKO anything of note, and I didn't add a U-turn set because I couldn't think of one that was different from the SD set. If someone wants to test one, be my guest, if not, it stays other options. I'll work on Revenankh now (phew that took a while).
  18. TekkenStorm

    TekkenStorm

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    Maybe something like this?

    name: Second Choice
    move 1: U-Turn / X-Scissor
    move 2: Ice Shard / Ice Punch
    move 3: Brick Break
    move 4: Shadow Claw
    item: Choice Band / Choice Scarf
    ability: Mountaineer
    nature: Jolly
    evs: 4 Def / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

    Can't test right now as i can't connect to shoddy because of connection problems so maybe some one could do it in my place.
  19. tennisace

    tennisace
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    First of all: Shadow Claw shouldn't be first in any set. Second: Other options.
  20. TekkenStorm

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    Sorry, didn't know the order matters :/

    As for your second point, its the best fourth option in CB as it wouldn't get pass rev without it.
  21. tennisace

    tennisace
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    I mean the whole CB Set is other options. I'll add in a line about it, it's not worth another set.
  22. THE_IRON_KENYAN

    THE_IRON_KENYAN 0 vv 0
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    Have you even ever tested the CB set or have done any calcs at all? or are you just saying this shit because it doesnt really look good at first glance?

    All Im trying to say is before you just go off and put things in other options maybe you should at least tell them why you did it with a little bit of back up calcs, and only after youve tested it a bit.
  23. tennisace

    tennisace
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    This is coming from the guy who I've never seen on the server. Yes I have tested it in the past when it actually had Superpower, and it sucked then, and sucks even more now that it has no Physical Fighting or Ground moves besides Brick Break and Dig. Brick Break will never OHKO Blissey btw, so it's really not worth it.
  24. jagged_angel

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    Should be perfect, or 100%.
  25. sbc

    sbc

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    Still think Air Slash is a waste; only does 46.35% - 54.69% to 300 SpDef Revenankh which means a 96% of NOT 2HKOing. Ice Beam does 43.75% - 51.56% so the difference is neglible.

    And Syclant is brittle anyway and beaten by HP Fire so I wouldn't ever use Air Slash in that last slot.

    What I would use is U-turn for pseudo-trapping and don't underestimate how good it is to u-turn and scout their best switch in whilst them not knowing what set you are using. Air Slash is much more other options than U-turn.
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