It would, but yes togekiss does everything better.
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Pokémon Sylveon
- Thread starter cartercr
- Start date
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I've been doing a lo of experimentation and I think the best way for Sylveon to go is a defensive Calm Mind set.
Sylveon Leftovers
Bold: 248 HP, 252 Def, 4 Sp Def, 4 Speed
Pixelate
-Calm Mind
-Wish
-Protect
- Hyper Voice
The point of emphasis here is turning defensive momentum into an offensive force. When you invest fully into Defense, Sylveon can actually take a some powerful physical attacks (even CB Tech Bullet Punch). Since Sylveon already has great Special Defense, investing in it is kind of pointless, especially with Calm Mind to bolster it further. Furthermore, with Wish and Protect, she can provide self and tea support. Despite having only one attack, Fairy is a very solid attack type and neither Scizor nor Genesect want to take the hit after a Calm Mind or two. Also after a single CM, you're only taknig thirty something percent from Zard Y Fire Blast. You can easily stick with it and overcome such Pokemon.
If you're looking for a cleric, you really should just stick with Florges though.
Sylveon Leftovers
Bold: 248 HP, 252 Def, 4 Sp Def, 4 Speed
Pixelate
-Calm Mind
-Wish
-Protect
- Hyper Voice
The point of emphasis here is turning defensive momentum into an offensive force. When you invest fully into Defense, Sylveon can actually take a some powerful physical attacks (even CB Tech Bullet Punch). Since Sylveon already has great Special Defense, investing in it is kind of pointless, especially with Calm Mind to bolster it further. Furthermore, with Wish and Protect, she can provide self and tea support. Despite having only one attack, Fairy is a very solid attack type and neither Scizor nor Genesect want to take the hit after a Calm Mind or two. Also after a single CM, you're only taknig thirty something percent from Zard Y Fire Blast. You can easily stick with it and overcome such Pokemon.
If you're looking for a cleric, you really should just stick with Florges though.
Ive always wondered.. whats better Hyper Voice or Moon blast? O.o
Hyper Voice, for sure, it's essentially giving Sylveon a free Life Orb with the benefit of actually holding Leftovers.
Ooohh because of pixilate! Man I'm going to change moon blast to hyper voice right now!
Uh, no. Sylveon 100% outclasses Florges in every conceivable way.
i used sylveon as a fantastic special tank:
sylveon
item: leftovers
ability: pixilate
252 hp/4 spa/ 252 spd
moves:
-psyshock
-hyper voice
-wish
-calm mind
who says that pixilate is useless doesn't know what he's talking about, moonblast has less power because hyper voice gets x1.2 from pixilate and can hit through a substitute.
with calm mind boost i could sweep a rotom w, a genesect (he didn't have iron head) and another strong pokemon that i don't remember. and i was burned.
sylveon
item: leftovers
ability: pixilate
252 hp/4 spa/ 252 spd
moves:
-psyshock
-hyper voice
-wish
-calm mind
who says that pixilate is useless doesn't know what he's talking about, moonblast has less power because hyper voice gets x1.2 from pixilate and can hit through a substitute.
with calm mind boost i could sweep a rotom w, a genesect (he didn't have iron head) and another strong pokemon that i don't remember. and i was burned.
This is how bulky Slyveon is, being able to survive (I believe) what is the strongest move in the game in rain 252+ SpA Choice Specs Kyogre Water Spout (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Sylveon in Rain: 303-357 (76.9 - 90.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery. This is irrelevant tho, but still. I think thats just crazy lol. That is really bulky on the special side
Sylveon @ Leftovers
Calm nature
Item: Leftovers
Ability: Pixilate
252 hp/4 spa/ 252 spd
moves:
-Heal Bell
-Hyper Voice
-Wish
-Calm Mind / Toxic
Been trying to come up with a set that works similar to Blissey. Would this work? Also, what are/would be some good teammates for Sylveon, preferably with this set?
Calm nature
Item: Leftovers
Ability: Pixilate
252 hp/4 spa/ 252 spd
moves:
-Heal Bell
-Hyper Voice
-Wish
-Calm Mind / Toxic
Been trying to come up with a set that works similar to Blissey. Would this work? Also, what are/would be some good teammates for Sylveon, preferably with this set?
I've been thinking of a set similar to this with a mega aggron. Megaggron covers sylveons weaknesses and the 2 would work well together with one being a special wall and the other a physical wall.
That's not as irrelevant as you may think. The merits of Sylveon are being debated on the Ubers forum. :)
It's still a demonstration of how much of a special sponge it can be even in OU.
This is basically the set I run on my Florges (poor man's Sylveon? In any case I like it) except with Protect over Calm Mind or Toxic. I was really iffy about that as I felt I should have some form of boosting or status so that I'm not such a one trick pony (Wish, Aromatherapy, Moonblast) but I can say that I really have no regrets. I wouldn't change that moveset for anything. Protect is critical for outstalling, which Sylveon/Florges will be doing a lot of, and the high power Fairy attacks from good special attack are easily punishing enough uninvested and unboosted.
This is a special wall that will go great with lots of teams so no need to overthink teammates! I usually use a Florges/Mandibuzz defensive core that does good work. They are thankful for a bulky steel type. Someone mentioned Aggron and it is a good choice.
No. It becomes a dead void in your moveset because there are VERY few points in a match where you can afford to give away a free boosting turn where you can't even make a switch. Even if it creates an unholy nuke that nearly breaks 300BP without any required setup, it's just far, far too situational to be worth the moveslot.
I've been falling for Echoed Voice Sylveon recently. Of course I'm using it on a Baton Pass team, but it really only needs to be passed a +3 boost in Defense to start sweeping most battles. If anything, it acts as a nasty back-up plan if the first chain fails or Espeon fails to sweep but can still contribute to the chain beforehand with its excellent typing, stats, and Calm Mind.
THX Ltd. (Sylveon) (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Echoed Voice
- Calm Mind
- Baton Pass
- Substitute
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-81128181
The above shows how quickly it can make a Baton Pass team recover from losing all its boost or its primary sweeper Espeon, which is a frightening concept since that's generally how Baton Pass teams are beaten. For anyone unfamiliar with Echoed Voice, it has 40 base power but increases by an additional 40 base power every time the move is used (even if it was blocked by Protect/King's Shield) and caps-out at 200 base power on turn 5 but doesn't reset the base power like Roll-Out would. With Pixilate's x1.3 boost factored in, the base power stages become 52, 104, 156, 208, & 260. Calm Mind can increase that even further. It may need more than just a +3 to Defense depending on what the opponent has left, but you want whatever amount of boosts it will take to have Sylveon survive the 5 turns it takes to get Echoed Voice's BP maxed. But, of course, Echoed Voice itself makes it tough to stop that from happening since even the 2nd stage is threatening due its Contrary-like pressure. To add to it, Echoed Voice is unaffected by Haze which is another thing that can stop Baton pass cold.
I haven't tried it on a team that's not full baton pass, but I'd imagine that Acid Armor Vaporeon alone would be enough to support Sylveon. I'd definitely replace Baton Pass with Wish if the team isn't full baton pass.
THX Ltd. (Sylveon) (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Echoed Voice
- Calm Mind
- Baton Pass
- Substitute
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-81128181
The above shows how quickly it can make a Baton Pass team recover from losing all its boost or its primary sweeper Espeon, which is a frightening concept since that's generally how Baton Pass teams are beaten. For anyone unfamiliar with Echoed Voice, it has 40 base power but increases by an additional 40 base power every time the move is used (even if it was blocked by Protect/King's Shield) and caps-out at 200 base power on turn 5 but doesn't reset the base power like Roll-Out would. With Pixilate's x1.3 boost factored in, the base power stages become 52, 104, 156, 208, & 260. Calm Mind can increase that even further. It may need more than just a +3 to Defense depending on what the opponent has left, but you want whatever amount of boosts it will take to have Sylveon survive the 5 turns it takes to get Echoed Voice's BP maxed. But, of course, Echoed Voice itself makes it tough to stop that from happening since even the 2nd stage is threatening due its Contrary-like pressure. To add to it, Echoed Voice is unaffected by Haze which is another thing that can stop Baton pass cold.
I haven't tried it on a team that's not full baton pass, but I'd imagine that Acid Armor Vaporeon alone would be enough to support Sylveon. I'd definitely replace Baton Pass with Wish if the team isn't full baton pass.
Guys, read the rules and don't talk about wifi/trading/breeding issues. PokeBank did open, so however challenging it is irl-- it is possible to have an Eevee with Heal Bell and Hyper Voice (they exist), therefore the set is fully useable on the simulators, and is definitely a viable move combo within the scope of OU discussion. I've been lenient, but I can start handing out warnings if it comes down to it.
I really don't think CM Sylveon without Wish AND Protect works. I played a lot with it, and it just dies way too fast. Your recovery is unreliable, and in general it's so much harder to heal and stay healthy against things that like to switch into Sylveon. Protect's scouting utility, too, is invaluable. I've had immense success with CM Sylveon, but non-Protect sets just don't work.
Which stats did yours have (EV Spread/nature)? Standard Calm Mind? I agree with you about protect and wish, they're valuable, but I've had some succes running it without Wish, just with Toxic/HP, Moonblast, CM and Protect.
That's kinda true. I've been running it more sweeping based, max hp/SpA Modest. I've only recently removed Wish from my set, but haven't had big problems with it, since lefties does a nice job of recovering. Though, with wish, it would be better, I agree on that.
Why on Moonblast? Haven't been able to get a Hyper Voice Eevee.
With the ability Pixilate, Hyper Voice is made a Fairy type move, and so gets STAB, plus the 30% bonus from being transformed into Fairy type. Idk the move bp's, this is just what I've heard from pretty much everywhere. I do know that the BP's are close enough that Hyper Voice is about the same, if not better.
Uhh. As said only about twice on every page of this thread, Hyper Voice is boosted by Pixilate making it stupidly powerful. From 90 BP to 117 BP not incl. STAB. There's also the awesome new mechanic where sound based moves goes through substitutes.
Sadly, Hyper Voice is only available on BW2 Move Tutors, so you'll have to wait for Pokebank, unless you have a Japanese account/3DS.
As for the Wish/Lefties thingy, Wish itself is a great asset to Sylveon and the other five pokemon. The one move itself allows it to heal itself for a good amount and give it the ability to pass the heal onto the rest of its team mates. If you do run something like that CM set, you wanna get as much physical bulk as possible since you'll be boosting your SpA and SpD. Wish is a recovery move that goes in tandem with protect. That leaves Hyper Voice. 4MSS rawr.
I've been very aware of the nr.1 thing you said: I Don't have a hyper voice because of that very reason :). I've read it. Don't worry. I like the thinking behind that set! It actually sounds a bit overpowered imho. (Which makes it even more fun to play with, muahahaha). But the fact that I feel comfortable with the thing I'm doing now, doesn't mean I won't try the Wish/Protect/CM/HV set. I only need a HV Eevee for that, and you've stated it yourself eh: Only through BW2.
Until that time, I'm merely experimenting with builds.
That said: If you ditch protect, and get Substitute for it, wouldn't that be as much as an asset? (With the fact that Protect has a fail percentage).
*pissed that pokebank's not out yet* DAMMIT GAMEFREAAAAAAAK! *punches fist in the air*
--Aaaaanyway, I'm not that keen on using Substitute, since you're technically only healing for 25% instead. It won't let you scout as well either.
There are not -that- many situations where you HAVE to go for double protect, there's always the option of switching out and bringing in a counter/check/tank/*insert role here*. Remember, you have five other pokemon. (unless you're aiming for some crazy self achievement where you sweep 1v6 with a Sylveon hurrrrrrr)
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