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BW OU Tabloo (bloos frontier team)

Discussion in 'RMT Archive' started by tab, Jul 27, 2011.

  1. tab

    tab ʕ•͡ᴥ•ʔ
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    Tabloo


    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]


    Take two. First of all, thanks to everyone that replied to this a few days ago, and sorry that I never got a chance to respond to you. I thought about everything you suggested, but ended up going with the changes that you can see here. Also, congratulations to bloo for being a strong (BAN ME PLEASE)! This is the team that he used in the majority of his frontier wins, so it’s proven its self to be extremely effective against pretty much all of the standard types of team. It’s probably the best team I’ve ever made by some distance – not only has bloo done extremely well with it, but, since I first made the team at the start of this suspect round, I’ve used it to get to the top 10 or so several times, and Nachos has done pretty well on the ladder with it too.

    The entire focus of the team is weather control – not through conventional means, as I don’t even have a weather changer, but through being generally solid, and having good all-round pokemon that are capable of controlling the game against the more dangerous pokemon on weather teams. One of the key things about the team is how well it uses Toxic Spikes, which so many of the more popular team styles around at the moment really struggle to deal with – standard stall has no chance as long as they’re down, rain stall is much the same once Tentacruel is gone, rain offense is much easier to deal with when everything’s poisoned, as are sun teams, and even your standard sand team with several immunities doesn’t enjoy having them down, especially with the likes of Celebi becoming more popular lately. I said that I don’t use a weather changer. A lot of people probably think that’s pretty stupid of me, but, really, now that I’ve ditched weather, I’ve realised that I didn’t really need to have sand in play at all for this team to work. Hopefully we’ll start to see a few more solid weatherless teams and a bit more diversity in the tier in the near future.

    As for team building, the team actually started off as a NP Celebi team back when it was first becoming popular, with CBTar to help take out its counters, although, despite doing well with it, it was pretty obvious that it was the Heatran/Gastrodon/Skarmory/Gengar/bulky grass type part of the team that was particularly good, rather than Celebi its self. From there, I decided that I’d be better off focusing on Gengar as a means of sweeping than Celebi, especially as people were starting to catch on to it, and replaced Celebi with Roserade, which turned out extremely well, although there were a few problems such as Terrakion and Virizion. I’d also noticed that as I got used to the team, I’d gone from using Tyranitar for something extremely important in basically every single match to basically just using it as a bulky switch into the odd attack, and realised that Reuniclus would cover pretty much every problem I’d encountered, as well as fitting in with the rest of the team nicely.

    [​IMG]

    Heatran @ Leftovers
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 252 HP / 248 SDef / 8 Spd
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Flamethrower
    - Roar
    - Stealth Rock
    - Will-O-Wisp​

    Specially defensive Heatran is a brilliant pokemon in general at the moment, as it just works beautifully against so many of the pokemon that give this team trouble, as well as being an incredible answer to any sun team that doesn’t have a Dugtrio. With the amount of switches Heatran can force along with Roar and all three hazards, it can be incredibly difficult to play against, and makes postponing the likes of Ferrothorn and Forretress getting hazards up for as long as possible much easier, which is pretty vital considering that I don’t have a spinner. Together with Roserade, Skarmory and Gastrodon, Heatran forms an absolutely brilliant defensive core, which easily handles the vast majority of threats in the current metagame.

    This set is a slight change from the usual SDef Heatran, which is mostly due to me needing to fit SR in somewhere. Will-O-Wisp is pretty key on the team, even if it does clash with Toxic Spikes a bit, as Heatran is brilliant at luring in Tyranitar, and hitting a WoW on one makes it much easier to clean up with Reuniclus. The only real thing to note about the EV spread is that it uses 8 Speed EVs – this is just to guarantee speed tie wins against other stall teams, which can be the difference between winning and losing a lot of the time. As bloo was using this team to frontier with, we’ve made a bit of a theme of building these kinds of EV spread into the team.

    [​IMG]

    Roserade @ Leftovers
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 SDef / 4 Spd
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Leaf Storm
    - Sleep Powder
    - Toxic Spikes
    - Rest​

    Defensive Roserade was always somewhat underrated in DPP, and nothing’s changed this generation. It’s really a great anti-metagame pokemon, with Toxic Spikes being incredibly dangerous, and so many teams relying heavily on special water and electric attacks, which Roserade can easily set up on. Roserade can also easily perform a pretty similar role to Heatran’s against sun against rain teams, coming in to tank hits and threaten key pokemon with Leaf Storm, forcing switches and racking up damage from hazards. Obviously, with Gastrodon being such a key member of the team against rain, a Toxic Spikes absorber is extremely welcome, and Roserade just happens to be as good an absorber as you’ll find, being able to easily come in the instant the second layer goes down more often than not.

    I've gone with Leaf Storm over Giga Drain here because Roserade very rarely gets the chance to hit something super effective, meaning Giga Drain gives next to no recovery, and even with no offensive EVs, Rade still sits at 286 special attack, meaning Leaf Storm packs a pretty big punch, and can be pretty useful for opening up holes in teams.

    [​IMG]

    Gastrodon @ Leftovers
    Trait: Storm Drain
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Scald
    - Ice Beam
    - Toxic
    - Recover​

    Gastrodon is just an absolutely brilliant anti-metagame pokemon, as more people have been starting to realise lately, and it’s probably the only reason this team works at all, acting as the perfect check to almost every single pokemon that gives it trouble. Together with Heatran, Gastrodon is my main means of controlling the game against weather teams, with an obvious focus on rain here, against which Gastrodon is just incredible. There’s not really much to say about its set, other than that Toxic is an absolute must for LO Latios with 3 attacks, which could otherwise give me real trouble, and Ice Beam is pretty important in stopping Dragonites from trying to set up on me.

    [​IMG]

    Skarmory @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP / 216 Def / 40 Spd
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    - Brave Bird
    - Spikes
    - Roost
    - Whirlwind​

    Skarmory completes my defensive core, rounding it off with a great answer to many of the more dangerous sand pokemon, as well as a solid physical wall in general, and, obviously, Spikes, which are vital in making the team work properly. Once again, there’s not a lot to say about the set, other than to comment on the EVs. As with Heatran, we’ve bumped up the speed, this time by a fair bit, to guarantee that we win speed ties in mirror matchups. 40 speed also has the advantage of basically never getting outsped by Tyranitar. While I’ve listed Leftovers here, I tend to use Shed Shell on the ladder, simply because Magnezone + Haxorus teams are ridiculous otherwise.

    [​IMG]

    Gengar @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Shadow Ball
    - Focus Blast
    - Pain Split
    - Substitute​

    SubSplit Gengar is still absolutely incredible, and I really have no idea why it isn’t used more. With Toxic Spikes support, the only reliable check to it is specially defensive Jirachi, which this team just uses as setup fodder, and with Pain Split allowing you to use Substitute pretty much whenever you need to, the more offensive teams hate having to deal with Gengar as well. Gengar isn’t just here as a sweeper – it can easily turn the tide of a game against some of the more threatening pokemon such as NP Celebi with Earth Power, allowing me to get out of difficult situations by subbing up and putting the opponent on the back foot, and, obviously, having a spin blocker is incredibly useful for a team like this. Gengar might not be the bulkiest ghost out there, but it’s still a pretty effective blocker against many of the spinners that people use, especially with Payback having been nerfed and Gyro Ball Forretress becoming less and less popular.

    Quite a few people have suggested that I try out Disable Gengar on this team since I made it, but I really think SubSplit is the best set here. Pain Split is actually a reliable recovery move on Gengar, which allows me to use be much less cautious when spin blocking, and makes Gengar stick around much longer, which is extremely useful, as I often have to bring Gengar in to force switches due to it being the fastest mon on the team.

    [​IMG]

    Reuniclus @ Leftovers
    Trait: Magic Guard
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spd
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    -Psyshock
    -Focus Blast
    -Calm Mind
    -Recover​

    Reuniclus rounds off the team brilliantly, giving a solid backup check to plenty of common physical pokemon, which makes it a lot easier to use Skarmory well, as well as just generally being extremely bulky and able to take random hits, or be pivoted around in order to get something like Gengar in. Reuniclus is also perfectly suited to the team, making full use of everything the rest of the team has to offer, especially all of the entry hazards – Tyranitar is worn down very quickly by this team, and Scizor struggles to live for long the majority of the time, which only really leaves SDef Jirachi as a common Reuniclus check, and, as I mentioned earlier, it just gets set up on. With its counters getting removed that reliably, Reuniclus often ends up finishing things off for the team, which it does as well as anything else in the tier, and it’s a great mon to be able to fall back to against stall teams on the rare occasion where I end up in real trouble against one. Once again, Reuniclus has standard EVs but with extra speed build in, which may seem a bad idea on something as slow as Reuniclus, but it’s pretty important here. The 8 speed EVs basically guarantee that I’m faster in CM wars, and, together with Psyshock, that means that I can actually use my own Reuniclus as a reasonable answer to other ones, which would basically 6-0 me otherwise. Outspeeding Conkeldurr is a bit annoying, but Conk is generally manageable.

    [​IMG]Threats[​IMG]
    Honestly, not much. There's only a handful of pokemon in the current metagame that I've had real trouble dealing with.

    Latios can be a bit of an annoyance, but the choice sets are generally easy enough to handle, leaving LO 3 attacks+Recover as the only real issue, which can generally be dealt with between Heatran and Gastrodon.

    Teams with either rain or sun, Dugtrio, and Tornadus or Volcarona are obviously a huge problem, as they just have an incredible advantage in the matchup, but I think that's much more a problem with the playstyle rather than the team.

    As with any stallish team, mixed dragons (Salamence) and Hydreigon are annoying to deal with, but both can generally be played around reasonably well, and, fortunately, I've always got Gengar to fall back on.
  2. dori

    dori

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    I doubt this team will have much more usage after his accomplishment but what I'm surprised he didn't find raping him:

    Reuniclus.

    The TR version actually pretty much outspeeds all 6 members, and is able to hit extremely hard. Your only hope I would imagine is to hope it doesn't get lucky while you try to stall it out of it's turns with repeated Recovering and hope for misses.

    And for CM ones like the one used there, it's basically who gets the first CH eventually.

    It also seems weak to Dragon Dancers.

    Salamence should have a field day. Fire Blast, Earthquake and Dragon Claw (Outrage) can relatively play it safe all day long and take a huge chunk out of the entire team. The absolute best case scenario is that you force it to Outrage and OHKO something like Roserade, and then hope WOW hits. Though of course if it runs Lum Berry you're utterly and completely fucked.

    But the team got the job done and that's what count. Good thing no one uses Dragon Dance Tyranitar anymore though. :)
  3. animenagai

    animenagai
    is a Past WCoP Winner

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    The team's pretty sweet. The only issue I see is CM rank. You can get into a CM war with it, but you're rolling the dice at that point. I suggest giving your own rank 12 speed ev's and a lo psycho shock. You outspeed and 2hko other ranks at +5. I think this is needed cos lefties rank still can't 2hko at +6, even with psycho shock. Hope I helped.
  4. BKC

    BKC
    is a Tutoris an official Team Rateris a Smogon IRC AOPis a Forum Moderatoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis Smogon Frontier's Castle Valetis a Past WCoP Winneris the Smogon Tour Season 16 Champion
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    Have you considered running a specially defensive Jirachi? It would really help out with the Reuniclus and Latios issues, plus it extends Heatran and Gengar's life span significantly, since the synergy Jirachi has with them would make wish passing easy. I would run Wish | U-turn | Body Slam | Iron Head, so you can escape from Magnezone and abuse entry hazards to their fullest. The issue is what to replace with it, since every member on the team plays a vital role.

    I think that you could use Rachi in Heatran's place, run HP Fire over Sleep Powder on Roserade, and run Stealth Rock over Brave Bird on Skarmory. Rachi has a similar role to Tran in that it tanks the majority of special hits your team faces, so you are losing as little as possible. Of course, this means that you now lose your main way of killing Forretress and Ferrothorn, which is why I think HP Fire on Roserade is a good idea; Rachi lures the aforementioned spikers in, U-turns out on the switch, and goes to Rade to 2HKO them. I don't really see Sleep Powder having too much value, as most of the time you're going to be Toxic Spiking / Leaf Storming.

    If you do choose to use U-turn Rachi, definitely run SR over Brave Bird on Skarm. BB's only real use is for fighting types, who are taken care of by Whirlwind+hazards. If you think it might be too much pressure on Skarm, then use SR > U-turn on Rachi but it'll require much more careful play around Forretress and Ferrothorn. Just a few things to consider, great team and good luck.
  5. badabing

    badabing hevy hangs da hood,,

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    Idk BB seems necessary on his skarm so he can pop excadrills balloon and phaze it out to rack up spikes damage. Otherwise his switchin to exca can't damage it back whatsoever.
  6. krum

    krum

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    Dec 29, 2010
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    Hey tab, this is a very solid looking team you have and I agree with you about know one using sub-split Gengar anymore... Anyway, I suggest you switch leftovers for Life Orb on Gengar, LO makes Gengar hit harder and the recoil makes pain split recover more HP.
  7. Agammemnon

    Agammemnon A wild Zubat appears!
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    With Skarm dead, DDHaxorus is going to rape you from the mouth to the... You know, feet.
    That's why I'd suggest a Shed shell on Skarmory.
  8. Ewil

    Ewil

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    Awesome Anti-weather stall team, i love that <3

    Confirm that Shed Shell on Skarm is a solid choice, then you can safely switch in Gastrodon/Roserade on the magne's t-bolt.
    Another annoying pkmn that i faced testing this team is HP Grass/Flamethrower/earth Power/SR Heatran since takes care of your defensive core, but i play around gengar and Reuniclus predicting the right attack from heat and (CMing) focus blasting him (it's a lucky momentum, yeah) and is a very rare set.
    Maybe LO on Gengar can be a good choice but needs testing.
  9. Snunch

    Snunch
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    Good team, probably the best non-weather we will see in a long time. You do falter a bit against offense though. CB Terrakion 2HKOs your team (and Gengar can't OHKO with focus blast in the sand), pretty much any Salamence set will tear through you, HP Grass / Earth Power Heatran is a huge issue, and in many cases you rely on one pokemon to counter something that will destroy the rest, leaving you vulnerable to wall-breaking. The best way to catch all these threats is through a revenge killer. Try using scarf Landorus over Reuniclus. It eases the burden on Skarmory by taking strong fighting-type attacks just like Reuniclus does, and provides a nice failsafe in case you find one of your key walls at low health.
  10. IronBullet93

    IronBullet93 Sitting on a cornflake
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    Hey tab,

    This is a fantastic team, it handles all forms of weather so well it's incredible. I'll just be nitpicking here since this team can't really be improved much. There are a few things that your team would like, such as a catch-all revenge killer, but this would simply open up weaknesses to other threats. I would recommend trying out Toxic over WoW on Heatran. This is very important to prevent last mon sweeps from the likes of ChestoRest Volcarona or CM Latias, while Tyranitar is still fatally crippled by it. Probably the only thing you'll miss hitting WoW with is DD Gyarados, but Stone Edge versions are defeated by Gastrodon while Bounce versions can easily be played around with Gastrodon + Skarmory.

    I would also like to suggest running Life Orb on Gengar. It allows Gengar to turn some much needed 3HKOs into 2HKOs. For example, specially defensive Jirachi and Vaporeon are now 2HKOed by Shadow Ball after hazards while previously they were only 3HKOed, which allowed them to Wish up. The extra power is also very welcome against the likes of Dragonite or Terrakion. You already have Pain Split as it is to heal off the LO damage. Gengar is frail even with the Leftovers attached, so it doesn't really change anything in the way of survivability.

    Reuniclus does seem to be the weak link of this team, so the Scarf Landorus suggested above by Snunch does an excellent job of patching up this teams weaknesses to DD Tyranitar, HP Ground Volcarona, LO Heatran, and DD Mence with Fire Blast. A moveset of Earthquake | Stone Edge | U-turn | Hidden Power Ice allows Landorus to revenge kill all of these threats fairly easily. Keep in mind, though, stall becomes a much bigger problem if you remove Landorus, so Taunt is worth a try on Skarmory.

    Good luck bro!
  11. Butterfreeak

    Butterfreeak

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    Excellent team, but Magnezone + Haxorus still fuck it badly, you have to use Shed Shell on karmy. Gengar is better with LO, it can hit harder and recover more HP with Pain Split.
  12. Requiem[9]

    Requiem[9]

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    I actually made a team a lot like this last period, with Latios over Gengar and Tyranitar over Gastrodon. This composition is obviously really strong, as Bloo's success in the Frontier attests too, but there are a few things that you still have serious issues with. One is HP Ground Volcarona, which just completely wrecks your shit: you don't really have a way to deal with it, outside of landing a Toxic with Gastrodon and looking to outpredict your opponent for ten turns. There are two practical ways I see of dealing with this: one is putting Tyranitar back on the team with specially defensive EVs, to take a hit from +1 Volcarona and KO it, and the other is throwing on some kind of scarfer, either over Gengar. In my eyes, Gengar is by far the weakest link on the team: while it's a nice utility pokemon with its speed and typing, it doesn't actually match up particularly well against the spinners in the metagame -- Starmie, Forretress, Excadrill -- and doesn't provide the same kind of power that something like Latios or Landorus would. Adding Tyranitar would make make playing Dugtrio more difficult on the sun player, a matchup you have some issues with, and put more pressure on him in general -- as well as providing utility against Psyshock Latios, which your team is a bit weak to -- leading me to prefer it. Gyarados over Gastrodon is something to consider if Thundurus gets banned too. Another issue teams like this have is a rather large weakness to Magnezone + dragons teams, so maybe you could find room for both, dropping Gastrodon for something to apply offensive pressure to those, like Scarf Salamence. That obviously opens you up a lot more to rain, as Roserade isn't the most durable of pokemon, but with Tyranitar that's less of an issue too. Those changes would help against random dumb stuff like Nasty Plot Togekiss as well. Just some things to keep in mind, I guess.

    I definitely wouldn't touch Reuniclus here, as dropping it would turn full-stall from a hard matchup to a nigh impossible one. Something to consider on Reuniclus, though, is Shadow Ball over Psyshock. While it's not as effective against other Reuniclus or Blissey, it keeps Mew from stalling it out and Gliscor from setting up on it. You already have Toxic Spikes for Blissey and with more speed, you'll force the other player's Reuniclus to Recover more often and get a crit first. While it'll never be the most effective move, it'll always be an effective move and I prefer it to a Psychic attack on teams like this.

    Nice team, and best of luck.
  13. Eternal

    Eternal
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    Hey there Tab (and Bloo, congratz at winning the Smogon Frontier!), really nice team you got here. I really like how the team doesn't require any sort of weather to be effective. This is a great example of a weather-less team and proves that you don't always need to build a team around weather to be successful. So kudos to you for building a team that does that.

    There are still quite a lot of problems this team may have dealing with many common threats of the metagame. Most of them have already been identified by the guys that already rated before me. Some have identified the team's big problem against CM Recover Reuniclus. After 1 Calm Mind from an opposing Reuniclus, your whole team is in trouble. Heatran and Skarmory won't be able to take Focus Blast well. Roserade and Gastrodon lose to Psychic. While your Leftovers Gengar with Shadow Ball will only do 48.11% - 56.66% to Reuniclus after Reuniclus gets a CM up, so Gengar loses there too and lets Reuniclus set up more. So you would ultimately have to rely on your own Reuniclus and hope that you win the war by critical hitting first. It's really hard to fix this problem without really hurting the structure of the team. Lets see what we can do here... I really think specially defensive Jirachi would love to be on this team. Most of the above users have already mentioned this critter, but have failed to give it a nice home in the team without hurting the structure of the team. BKC suggested running it over Heatran, but in order to do that you would need to use a new Stealth Rock support, where the only other Pokemon in your team that could set up Stealth Rock is Skarmory. So you would either have to replace Brave Bird or Whirlwind for Stealth Rock. But both Whirlwind and Brave are obviously very crucial to Skarmory for reasons you probably already know and I don't have to waste my time explaining. Not only that, replacing Heatran for Jirachi also makes the team much more weak to Fire, where Jirachi, Skarmory, and Roserade all are weak to it. While a Sun team with Volcarona could then easily sweep the team, so that's not going to fix the weather problem which this team's role is.

    I would suggest replacing your Roserade for the Jirachi. As it turns out, your team doesn't really need a Toxic Spikes absorber much with Heatran, Skarmory, Gengar, Reuniclus and when adding Jirachi, all are immune to Toxic Spikes. Not only that, your team doesn't really need Toxic Spikes to be effective and defeating other weather-reliant teams as you're mostly going to spam Roar and Whirlwind with the team anyways. While replacing Roserade with Jirachi balances the weakness to Fire-types for the team. You also use Roserade in the team mainly for opposing Politoed, Rotom-W, Starmie, and Jellicent. Other than those, there isn't much need for Roserade on the team. While Gastrodon already handles Politoed, Rotom-W, and Starmie very well. Not only is Jirachi going to fix the problem with Reuniclus for the team, but it is also going to fix so many other problems. Without the specially defensive Jirachi your only means of beating Life Orb Gengar was Gastrodon as none of the other Pokemon are safely able to come in on Gengar (Heatran and Skarmory get Focus Blasted and Roserade, Reuniclus, and Gengar get Shadow Balled). A Life Orb Shadow Ball does 32.63% - 38.73% to your Gastrodon, so it's not a safe switch-in (especially with a special defense drop, you're basically screwed). Jirachi also patches up the problem your team has against Lati@s. A Choice Specs Latios gives you a very hard time to switch into a safe Pokemon. Surf from Choice Specs Latios does 55.44% - 65.8%, and Heatran is your safest switch-in to Choice Specs Latios (as a Draco Meteor does 72.07% - 85.21% to your Gastrodon and 68.56% - 80.83% to your Skarmory). A Leftovers Latias with Calm Mind / Dragon Pulse / Roar / Recover would also give you a hard time because both your phazers (Heatran and Skarmory) are slower than it, meaning with the opposing team's Spikes and Stealth Rock up (which opposing teams can easy do onto you because you lack a spinner), Latias can easily wreck your whole team with Calm Mind and Roar and Dragon Pulse sweep. So you can really see why it's important for this team to have a specially defensive Jirachi. Here's the Jirachi set:

    Show Hide

    [​IMG]
    Jirachi @ Leftovers -- Serene Grace
    Nature: Careful - EVs: 252 HP / 216 SDef / 40 Spd
    - Iron Head
    - Body Slam
    - Wish
    - Protect


    Next, the other weakness I see that this team has is dealing with Terrakion, Lucario, Excadrill, Tyranitar, and Hydreigon. A Terrakion can easily pose a big threat to your whole team as with one Swords Dance 5/6 Pokemon of your team are OHKO'd. Your only option of stopping Terrakion is risking a 70% accuracy Focus Blast. Not to mention, your Leftovers Gengar does 52.26% - 69.75% to standard Double Dance Terrakion in the Sandstorm (because Sandstorm raises the SpDef of Rock types). While Lucario also can clearly sweep your whole team after a Swords Dance and you're going to have to rely on 70% accuracy Focus Blast hitting again. A Swords Dance Crunch from Life Orb'd Lucario does 90.57% - 106.6% to your Reuniclus, where even if you're lucky enough to live and to have enough HP you're still going to have to rely on Focus Blast hitting most of the times. For Excadrill, the only thing you have for it is Skarmory, and Skarmory isn't a reliable Pokemon to handle Excadrill. Skarmory will just allow opposing Excadrill to easily spin away your hazards. An Air Balloon Excadrill with Swords Dance + Rock Slide will do 28.74% - 34.13% to your Skarmory and has a 30% chance of flinching it. While with Life Orb, it would do an even more threatening 37.43% - 44.31% with a 30% chance of flinch. The only Pokemon you have to come in on Tyranitar is Gastrodon (where a standard Tyranitar without any EVs invested in Atk does 35.92% - 42.25% to your Gastrodon), but with the addition of Jirachi, you're much safer against opposing Tyranitars. And finally, you don't have a good Pokemon to come in on Life Orb/Expert Belt Hydreigon. Hydreigon OHKOs your Heatran with Focus Blast, Fire Blasts your Roserade, Fire Blasts your Skarmory, Dark Pulses your Reuniclus, Draco Meteors your Gastrodon (dealing 67.14% - 78.87% with Life Orb), and all Gengar can do in revenge kill it with a 70% accuracy Focus Blast.

    Now, I'm not a big fan of 70% accuracy Focus Blast and frail Gengars and having Skarmory as my only way of handling flinching Excadrill. The biggest reason from what I can see of having Gengar in your team is to block spin. While Gengar is a cool Ghost-type it's not always the best spin blocker as Requiem[9] had mentioned with good reasons. Gengar is the weak link of the team and usually has to rely so much on a 70% Focus Blast accuracy to defeat many threats that plague this team. There is one great Pokemon that you could swap it to fix all those above problems I've mentioned. And that is adding a Conkeldurr. Conkeldurr is a much better revenge killer than Gengar with a 100% accuracy Mach Punch. It's better at fixing the team's problems against Terrakion, Excadrill, Lucario, and Hydreigon. As well as being the best switch-in to opposing Tyranitar for the team. Not only that, it doesn't mind being status'd much because of it's Guts ability boosting its Atk by 50%. This will help a lot against opposing Toxic Spikes users, status spammers like Jellicent, Blissey/Chansey, etc. So you can see how important and necessary it is for the team to have this Pokemon. Here's the set:

    Show Hide

    [​IMG]
    Conkeldurr @ Leftovers -- Guts
    Nature: Adamant - EVs: 120 HP / 252 Atk / 136 SDef
    - Mach Punch
    - Bulk Up
    - Payback
    - Drain Punch


    Finally, there is only one other weakness I see on the team (well maybe two). As you've mentioned in your threat list, a Sun team built around Dugtrio and Volcarona could easily wreak havoc among this team. While a Quiver Dance Volcarona with Hidden Power Ground can easily 6-0 you. Unfortunately there is one good solution to this problem, and that is using Air Balloon on Heatran over Leftovers. Air Balloon with not only help deal with those threats but also give you a better option at beating DD Dragonite/Salamence, Excadrill, Mamoswine, Bronzong, Hippowdon, sometimes Landorus, etc. So it has many other purposes with Air Balloon. Not only that, you don't really need a specially defensive Heatran anymore since you have Jirachi to stop many of your special attacking threats like Choice Specs Latios. So you could give Heatran Air Balloon, change its moveset to Fire Blast / Earth Power / Stealth Rock / Roar with Modest Nature and 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd.

    There is also one last thing that I will be nitpicking on this team is by telling you to make sure your Skarmory is Female nature to avoid losing to random Choice Band Haxorus that use Rivalry as their ability. All in all, this is a great team and I really think my suggestions would strengthen this team a lot. Good luck and have fun bro!
  14. Ojama

    Ojama Let's trizzle the shizzle all over the hizzle
    is a Tutoris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis Smogon Frontier's Palace Mavenis the Smogon Tour Season 15 Champion
    Battling 101 Staff

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    Hi Tab and Bloo

    Congrats.on defeating the Frontier with this team Bloo. It's a really nice Team there, probably the best no weather i've seen and very solid. But the problem is you're dominated by the opponent weather. Against Rain Dance Teams, NPThundurus with Life Orb can destroy your Team if Gastrodon has around 70% and it wouldn't be a problem with a Ferrothorn with Spikes. I think it's the only problem against RDT, but be careful against SpecsTornadus, no one can take Hurricane. Then against Sandstorm, Adamant Excadrill is horrible and we all know Skarmory can't do anything with BS Flinch. But you already know that I guess with a no weather Team and you know what you should do against these Teams, so I don't see what change. Gg both !
  15. tab

    tab ʕ•͡ᴥ•ʔ
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    Thanks for all the replies. LO Reuniclus is a pretty good idea, I'm surprised it never occured to me. I'll probably use that if I end up using this team again.

    BKC: I've used SDef Rachi a few times over Reuniclus (mostly to counterteam shit but 9.9), and it's a useful mon, although I really can't afford to replace Tran, as it's vital vs sun. Scarf Lando over Reun is also a pretty good idea, again I might try it out at some point.

    As for the suggestions about replacing Roserade, I'm not really very keen on them, as Toxic Spikes are pretty vital in making the team work properly - without Rade, it's basically a bad take on a generic stall team. Honestly, I'm not sure on Conk at all either. Sure, it revenge kills some stuff well, but Gengar is just incredibly good on this team, and I think it's going to end up being a much better all-round choice. Terra generally isn't too hard to handle between Gengar, Skarmory and Reuniclus.

    Eternal is a noober.
  16. Eternal

    Eternal
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    Btw, should really take my suggestions seriously. They really fix up the team's problems.

    Here's the short version:

    - Use specially defensive Jirachi over Roserade
    - Use Conkeldurr over Gengar
    - Use Air Balloon Heatran
    - Use Female Skarmory
  17. franky

    franky
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    gengar holds this team from being brutally murdered by earth power celebi
  18. ENZ0

    ENZ0
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    FUK Celebi, and cool team.
  19. Razza

    Razza

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    This is a very nice team and is obviously very successful although I notice every team member is running leftovers and I think you could try some of these out:

    Shed shell on skarm ( for Magnezone)
    Air balloon on heatran ( maybe it can give you a free switch in and helps check volcanora who could sweep you)
    Life orb on gengar (as you have pain split for recovery)
    Life orb on reuniclus as you will recieve no recoil
    Lum berry on gastrodon for the occasional toxic as you have recover for recovery
    White herb on roserade as rest provides nice instant recovery with natural cure

    Hope this helps :)
  20. Blue_Star

    Blue_Star
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    This team is so boss. I lost by 6-0 to it so many times. I can't say anything except that it's a great team.
  21. Celsius

    Celsius

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    Humm imo the lefties is better than the LO on gengar end reuniclus .
    Great team with a good coverage in the BW metagame .
    And yeah put Skarmory in female can help you for Haxorus , if you put Jirachi over Roserade , you can use the lefties on Skarmory . With Jirachi you have an another check of Haxorus blocked on Outrage .
    Congrats to you .
  22. Stunt

    Stunt

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    Firstly, your team cannot counter spinning starmie in the Rain. Gengar is OHKO'd by Hydro pump, and your team pretty much falls apart after that.

    I agree with everything Eternal has mentioned, just not with his suggestions.


    the immediate change you can make right now is changing Roserade's item to black sludge.
  23. purple crobatchop

    purple crobatchop

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    @ Stunt: but Roserade isn't even 2HKOed by Starmie without crit... also black sludge is very situational...

    @ Razza: leftovers is almost always better because lots of tiems Gastry will need the lefties to avoid 2HKOs. Also Rossy is meant to tank a bit so white herb is not that useful (especially it would be wasted if used against a resist).

    @ Eternal: lolRate
  24. Rofellos

    Rofellos

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    I think I agree with eternal about conkledurr. With gengar and reuniclus both on the team there's a gaping hole against ttars and an unsure chance of landing focus blast. A conk could become your status absorber and could use leftovers since with sandstorm up and taking a status he'll need the regeneration. My only other feedback is maybe switching reuniclus around. Facing other trick room versions is dangerous so having a life orb set is too good to pass up with magic guard. Honestly that's a horribly broken ability with LO
  25. Ewil

    Ewil

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    The problem is that if he changes Geng for Conk, he loose his anti-spinner and is pretty crucial for his team.
    Testing this team in the ladder i've notice only the heatran weakness that i've mentioned before and a little problems with Volcarona+Dugtrio in many sun teams. You must play in prediction if you want your heatran alive and the passive damage from hazards are a real help.

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