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Take Off Your Pants and Jacket [OU RMT]
- Thread starter Towelie
- Start date
Unfortunately, Celebi lacks any priority moves to finish weakened enemies, which is why Machamp outclasses it pretty well. That's why Towelie says it doesn't work, in essense. Otherwise, it would be pretty good, if you have a way of dealing with boosted sweepers.
This is really more of a quick suggestion for you to test than one of those super sound rates, but I noticed you didn't like machamp, so let me suggest to you a change that doesn't really actually change much. Why not try SD gallade in the lead spot? I know it sounds kinda gimmicky, but hear me out on this. By investing heavily in hp, you have enough bulk (especially special bulk) to carry a lum berry. With a set of swords dance, ice punch, close combat, and shadow sneak, you can basically do machamp's job. Ice punch+shadow sneak always kos aerodactyl and roserade, and cc always kos heatran (lol) while also taking less from fire blast than machamp (and also i once lived lo overheat but I'm not sure if that's guaranteed, i'll calc it and get back to you on that). Against bulkier leads, you can set up swords dance on them and proceed to ohko with +2 cc. Among these are machamp (against whom you fare very well, due to almost always outspeeding him, resisting dynamicpunch, having a lum berry, and being able to ohko with your +2 cc), metagross, and swampert (i think they have a chance to survive but still take HUGE dmg, i'll calc this one too and get back to ya). Hippowdon also takes huge damage and has no choice but to roar you out after taking 75%+ dmg (slack off ensures that he dies next turn to cc), and every single member of your team can do 25% to hippowdon off the bat, so he's essentially dead (and he's also a big threat to aero). the only lead you don't really beat any better is colbur azelf, as they run enough bulk to not be 2hkod by shadow sneak, but you don't do much better with machamp on that really so I don't see why it matters. gaining the ability to be absolutely fearsome to stall, as well as handily beating swampert, metagross, machamp, and stronger heatran, seems to me a good exchange for the confusion rate, which while threatening, is also unreliable. It may not be the huge revolutionary change you're looking for, but I think it's worth testing!
p.s. if you want you can run stone edge over ice punch. you still beat aerodactyl and roserade, so you basically exchange the ability to beat gliscor (as well as beating aero/roserade without getting -def) for the ability to do more dmg to bulky azelf (SE+shadow sneak > shadow sneak + shadow sneak) and the ability to really make gyarados think twice about switching in, not that he likes taking +1 ccs but stone edging him is better.
good luck with the team, and I love the concept by the way
p.s. if you want you can run stone edge over ice punch. you still beat aerodactyl and roserade, so you basically exchange the ability to beat gliscor (as well as beating aero/roserade without getting -def) for the ability to do more dmg to bulky azelf (SE+shadow sneak > shadow sneak + shadow sneak) and the ability to really make gyarados think twice about switching in, not that he likes taking +1 ccs but stone edging him is better.
good luck with the team, and I love the concept by the way
Looks like a solid team, needed to read the full thing before actually seeing some problems.
First thing I see, is quite a large Starmie weakness, in that it can hit everything on this team hard, and nothing can come in on a LO Hydro Pump and walk away smiling, sure you can revenge easy with Aero and Rotom-H, but I personally think some sort of wall on this team would work great.
As this team is so well built, I could not narrow down the exact wall to suit this team, but a bulky water was the general thought, so perhaps Suicune/Swampert/Vaporeon would work well over Choice Scarf Rotom. By choosing Swampert, you could definitely run the standard set, with Stealth Rock, and change Heatran to a Choice Scarfer if you feel you need a powerful revenge killer. Swampert would also be able to take Thunder Waves, while also being able to either scout opposing teams [if you go with Roar], allowing for you to make better predictions with your Mix Mence/Tar/Aero later in the game, while also wearing down the foes with SR, allowing you to hit those KOs easier. Alternatively you could use Celebi, who can spread Paralysis, although this would increase your Scizor weakness, possibly even out of control :S.
Of course there is no need to make any of the changes suggested, as this team as very good already, just a different view :P
EDIT: Also love the album, blink182 are great
Also approving the Gallade set mentioned above. I haven't tried it out, but when I was using my LOL GIMMICK NFE team, I used a SD Monferno lead, same basic principle with Focus Sash, but a lot weaker and less bulky. I can most definitely see this working on Gallade.
First thing I see, is quite a large Starmie weakness, in that it can hit everything on this team hard, and nothing can come in on a LO Hydro Pump and walk away smiling, sure you can revenge easy with Aero and Rotom-H, but I personally think some sort of wall on this team would work great.
As this team is so well built, I could not narrow down the exact wall to suit this team, but a bulky water was the general thought, so perhaps Suicune/Swampert/Vaporeon would work well over Choice Scarf Rotom. By choosing Swampert, you could definitely run the standard set, with Stealth Rock, and change Heatran to a Choice Scarfer if you feel you need a powerful revenge killer. Swampert would also be able to take Thunder Waves, while also being able to either scout opposing teams [if you go with Roar], allowing for you to make better predictions with your Mix Mence/Tar/Aero later in the game, while also wearing down the foes with SR, allowing you to hit those KOs easier. Alternatively you could use Celebi, who can spread Paralysis, although this would increase your Scizor weakness, possibly even out of control :S.
Of course there is no need to make any of the changes suggested, as this team as very good already, just a different view :P
EDIT: Also love the album, blink182 are great
Also approving the Gallade set mentioned above. I haven't tried it out, but when I was using my LOL GIMMICK NFE team, I used a SD Monferno lead, same basic principle with Focus Sash, but a lot weaker and less bulky. I can most definitely see this working on Gallade.
Hi there,
Well considering you seem to generally lack a decent switch into water types, and you don't seem happy with Heatran as it is, I reckon changing its set up a bit would be a good idea seeing as it IS helping with Scizor/ <insert other threat it helped you with here>. So yeah, slap a Passho Berry on Heatran to take out those waters that are sure to switch in. Sure, most games will be..Stealth Rock as something switches out...water poke comes in...decide whether it is enough of a threat to immediately explode (e.g.Suicune/ Starmie) or if you can play around it (e.g.Swampert), but I feel like this simple berry change would be beneficial. I've always thought Shuca Tran was always pretty useless tbh, getting KOed by the same ground attacks after a little previous damage anyway.
It is just a great lure to the ever present water types.
Just an example of what can happen, you go up against a Jirachi lead...switch into Heatran as they Iron Head (most do this from my XP)..SR as Starmie comes in (nothing on your team enjoys switching in)..explode while you survive a LO surf which you wouldn't do without the Passho. Heck, you even survive a Specs Starmie's Surf 100% of the time if they don't have SR down.
The evs and moveset are largely up to preference on this one, so I will leave those up to you. Your moveset seems fine, and you did say that Swampert doesn't bother you much...but if you want to pave the way for a Tyranitar/ Aerodactyl sweep earlier, you could use HP grass > earth power.
Sorry that I couldn't suggest more but your team is pretty solid. I know how predictable Machamp+Heatran combo is becoming, but they simply work so well together so I wouldn't want that changed.
GL.
Well considering you seem to generally lack a decent switch into water types, and you don't seem happy with Heatran as it is, I reckon changing its set up a bit would be a good idea seeing as it IS helping with Scizor/ <insert other threat it helped you with here>. So yeah, slap a Passho Berry on Heatran to take out those waters that are sure to switch in. Sure, most games will be..Stealth Rock as something switches out...water poke comes in...decide whether it is enough of a threat to immediately explode (e.g.Suicune/ Starmie) or if you can play around it (e.g.Swampert), but I feel like this simple berry change would be beneficial. I've always thought Shuca Tran was always pretty useless tbh, getting KOed by the same ground attacks after a little previous damage anyway.
It is just a great lure to the ever present water types.
Just an example of what can happen, you go up against a Jirachi lead...switch into Heatran as they Iron Head (most do this from my XP)..SR as Starmie comes in (nothing on your team enjoys switching in)..explode while you survive a LO surf which you wouldn't do without the Passho. Heck, you even survive a Specs Starmie's Surf 100% of the time if they don't have SR down.
The evs and moveset are largely up to preference on this one, so I will leave those up to you. Your moveset seems fine, and you did say that Swampert doesn't bother you much...but if you want to pave the way for a Tyranitar/ Aerodactyl sweep earlier, you could use HP grass > earth power.
Sorry that I couldn't suggest more but your team is pretty solid. I know how predictable Machamp+Heatran combo is becoming, but they simply work so well together so I wouldn't want that changed.
GL.
stath: I thought it sounded dumb when you first mentioned it but now that I actually look at it, it sounds extremely effective and obviously a surprise. thanks for the suggestion!
shizzle: Pert still gets 2hkod by LOMie and I know it's a huge threat, but usually i can play around it. Aerodactyl can take in ice beam in ss if its an emergency and 2hko it (they rarely hydro pump me)
cheesesticks: tbh, i've been using passho tran ALOT and it works very nicely in surprising starmie, cune, etc. thanks for the suggestion!
shizzle: Pert still gets 2hkod by LOMie and I know it's a huge threat, but usually i can play around it. Aerodactyl can take in ice beam in ss if its an emergency and 2hko it (they rarely hydro pump me)
cheesesticks: tbh, i've been using passho tran ALOT and it works very nicely in surprising starmie, cune, etc. thanks for the suggestion!
Hmmmm I really want to rate this team Towelie but I don't have any suggestions at the moment.
I STRONGLY vouch for this Gallade in the lead I've used it and its a freaking nuke. All fighting pokemon work well in the lead position really because of bulk and sheer power, which is essential in the early game.
Ive been using it with Stone Edge > Ice Punch and it's excellent. It either KOs or severely damages bulky leads which aero LOVES and it beats Machamp which is always a plus. Ive ben running 248 Hp/252 Atk/8 Spe to get the jump on Dragonite leads. I was gonna ev to beat tran but tran is always naive and there's no way in hell id go jolly just to beat it. i still beat non specs anyways.