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Tauros

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by Santuga, Jul 28, 2011.

  1. Santuga

    Santuga

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    [​IMG]

    http://serebii.net/pokedex-bw/128.shtml

    QC: 1/3 (Oglemi), 2/3 (Snunch), 3/3 (Chou Toshio)
    GP: 1/2 (cosmicexplorer), 2/2 (V0x)


    [Overview]

    <p>With the introduction of the fifth generation, Tauros was gifted with the new ability, Sheer Force, from the Dream World. This ability boosts the damage of moves with a secondary effect by 30% and nullifies Life Orb recoil when using those moves. That, when combined with Tauros's excellent Speed and Attack stats, makes it a force to be reckoned with. Furthermore, Tauros has decent bulk, which makes it difficult to take down. Tauros also gained the new move, Work Up, which boosts Tauros's great Attack and its rather weak Special Attack to decent levels, making even a mixed set viable. Similarly to the previous generation, Tauros is known for revenge killing and sweeping late-game sweeper. However, the bull is weak to Fighting-type moves such as Close Combat and Mach Punch, both of which can easily stop Tauros's sweep. If you pack the right support and remove Tauros's main checks, it can easily sweep teams.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Life Orb
    move 1: Double-Edge / Return / Rock Climb
    move 2: Earthquake
    move 3: Rock Slide
    move 4: Zen Headbutt
    item: Life Orb
    ability: Intimidate / Sheer Force
    nature: Jolly
    evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Double-Edge is Tauros's most powerful STAB move. Return has no recoil, but it also doesn't have the same power as Double-Edge, and while Rock Climb reaches almost the same base power as Double-Edge when combined with Sheer Force, its accuracy is shaky. While Rock Climb and Double-Edge wreck havoc on anything that does not resist them, 2HKOing even defensive walls such as 252 HP / 4 Def Deoxys-D and 248 HP / 252 Def Milotic, both very common, after they take damage from entry hazards, Return has no drawbacks except for the Life Orb recoil, making it a bit more reliable than the other two. Earthquake hits Steel-types such as Registeel, Cobalion, and Bisharp that resist Tauros's STAB, and also hits Poison-, Electric, and Fire-types for super effective damage. Rock Slide is boosted by Sheer Force and helps Tauros to take on the likes of Moltres, Zapdos, Yanmega, Rotom-H, and Altaria, outspeeding and 2HKOing or OHKOing them. Zen Headbutt is also boosted by Sheer Force and hits Fighting-types that would otherwise threaten Tauros.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Intimidate lets Tauros switch in easily and gives it more survivability, while Sheer Force boosts the power of Tauros's moves and removes Life Orb recoil on some of them. The only drawback is that Double-Edge is illegal with Sheer Force.</p>

    <p>The EV spread is pretty simple; 252 EVs in Attack and Speed maximize Tauros's sweeping potential. A Jolly Nature lets Tauros speed tie with other Pokemon at base 110 Speed, but Adamant gives Tauros a lot more power.</p>

    <p>Pursuit can be used to trap opponents that fear Tauros. Deoxys-D and Roserade are good partners for the bull, resisting Fighting-type attacks and setting up entry hazards, helping Tauros to sweep. Donphan can also take on most Fighting-types in the tier, and is able to lay down Stealth Rock and spin away hazards for Tauros. Dark-types such as Houndoom and Weavile are also good partners for Tauros, since they are able to take on Ghost-types such as Dusclops and Cofagrigus easily.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>A Work Up set is viable, and can be purely physical or go mixed with Fire Blast. When using Work Up, Sheer Force is advisable for maximum power. Tauros can also use a Choice item well. Choice Band gives Tauros incredible power, while Choice Scarf makes it an excellent revenge killer. Stone Edge can be used over Rock Slide if you are fishing for a critical hit or if you are planning on using Intimidate instead of Sheer Force. Wild Charge hits bulky Water-types such as Milotic, Alomomola, and Slowbro as hard as Double-Edge, but doesn't give Ghost-types a free switch in.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Dusclops and Cofagrigus are Tauros's worst nightmare. They can take every single one of Tauros's moves easily, burn it with Will-O-Wisp, and heal themselves with Pain Split. Slowbro also takes hits decently and may burn Tauros with Scald, recovering any damage dealt with Slack Off and Regenerator. Alomomola works similarly, but is able to pass Wish to its teammates. Hitmontop with Intimidate also laughs at Tauros, OHKOing it with Close Combat or revenge killing it with Mach Punch. Bulky Eviolite users such as Gligar and Ferroseed are also able to take on Tauros. Gligar can poison it with Toxic and Roost off any damage dealt, while Ferroseed can paralyze Tauros, making it useless.</p>
  2. breh

    breh
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    uhhh


    "252 HP / 4 Def Chansey"

    wut
  3. Santuga

    Santuga

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    My bad XD Thanks.
  4. NijaSkills

    NijaSkills

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    Also, 4 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe on the LO set? Also, it might be worth trying Adamant. With Staraptor gone, the only significant threats that it misses out on in the 100-110 range are Flygon, Zoroark, and Rash/Modest Raikou, along with a tie with Froslass
  5. breh

    breh
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    it can't 2HKO it though. I'm not sure it can even do so consistently with SR.

    @above: victini?
  6. prem

    prem failed abortion
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    why does everyone forget durant and its mass damage capabilities
  7. Santuga

    Santuga

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    @Breludicolo: Tauros@Life Orb (252 EVs, Neutral Nature) 240 Normal Physical (2 Rock Climbs) vs Chansey@Evolution Stone (252/252 EVs, +Nature): 79,8 ~ 94,1% (562 ~ 663 HP). How should I refer this?

    @Nijaskills: If you take a look at that list, I think it's pterry damn worth it to make Tauros have max speed. Plus, as Breludicolo said, Victini is also 100 base speed and you definetly don't want to risk gettnig outsped and take a V-Create to the face :s Also, fixed the 252 Spe EVs. Thanks ;D

    @premboy95: Durant is slower than Tauros and can get 2HKOd by Earthquake or Rock Slide after rocks while Tauros can take an unboosted X-scissor (if you set up, Tauros is faster and kills) ensuring the KO after your own LO recoil. Plus, Durant is meant to sweep so it can't sit there all day and take Tauros's hits like Dusclops and Cofagrigus.
  8. shrang

    shrang Reaction to Ubers ladder
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    Just wondering, is Fire Blast really worth it on the Work Up set? I mean, +1 Rock Climb does heaps to Celebi, Shaymin, and all that, while EQ hits Steels for super effective anyway. Tauros' SpA is really, really bad, to the point where Sheer Force doesn't do all that much to salvage it. Really, the only thing it does is roast Ferroseed. Work Up / Rock Climb / EQ / Rock Slide with Jolly 4/252/252 sounds fine enough to me.
  9. Santuga

    Santuga

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    Rock Climb is a 2HKO on Celebi after hazards whereas Fire Blast is OHKO. For Shaymin the amount is about the same (Rock Climb does like, 3% more but it's irrelevant with hazards up), unless it invests in Defense and Fire Blast would do more damage. Fire Blast is a sure OHKO on Cobalion and Earthquake isn't, Fire Blast OHKOs Defensive Rotom-C and Defensive Tangrowth and 2HKOs 252 HP / 252 Def Cofagrigus after rocks (I used max Attack for the physical moves and 172 EVs for Fire Blast). The reason why I chose Fire Blast was to get defensive walls off guard thinking they would come in on a physical move, but as mentioned in the AC, a full physical set can be used. I do get your point of view though. If QC thinks it's better to have a full physical set, we'll just make it that way.
  10. breh

    breh
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    I'm not sure what you mean by that last bit; I'm just saying to omit the sentence where it says it can 2HKO defensive chansey.

    Also, rock climb isn't base 120 power; it's base 117.

    299 Atk vs 178 Def & 704 HP (117 Base Power): 276 - 325 (39.20% - 46.16%)

    this is what it should be doing; cherubi tells me it has a 21% chance to 2HKO with rocks, a roughly 17% chance to do the same counting accuracy.
  11. Santuga

    Santuga

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    Isn't Sheer Force boost 33%? I checked it on Serebii :s
  12. breh

    breh
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    no, it's 1.3 iirc.
  13. prem

    prem failed abortion
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    oh i said to remember durant as a point of not running adamant. 110 base speed is too good of a speed tier to be in to run adamant. you actually lose a lot of threats if you run adamant.

    and i thought it was 1.33 also
  14. Jaxx

    Jaxx

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    Just here to confirm that Sheer Force gives a boost of 1.3 as confirmed here.
  15. Santuga

    Santuga

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    I guess we are all a bit unsure about Sheer Force's boost XD

    Edit: Ok, that clarifies it. Thanks Jaxx

    Ok, I think we are ready for QC checks now maybe?
  16. AccidentalGreed

    AccidentalGreed HOMERUN, CABRONES
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    It would be dandy to rename the "Life Orb" set to "All-Out Attacker", reminsce of Mienshao, since Tauros will use Life Orb most of the time if it's not using Choice items or any other offensive options.
  17. SuperJOCKE

    SuperJOCKE Lowtier Warrior!
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    Yeah, those are the only ones... Oh, hi there Cobalion. And Mew too, how nice.

    Yeah, you need both Stealth Rock and 1 layer of Spikes to OHKO 0/0 Celebi at full health, with the SpA EVs you've listed. And then there's the chance of missing too.
    And how can the damage be "pretty much the same", when they have the same exact stats.

    Personally, I think Fire Blast is pretty, meh. But I haven't tried it myself so I wouldn't know.

    And the Power of Rock Climb... You've forgotten that Tauros receives STAB from Rock Climb. I get 175,5, rounded up to 176. Atleast it looks like you have, as you have only mentioned 117, which is Rock Climb plus Sheer Force boost, 90 x 0,3 = 27, 90 + 27 = 117. You need to add 117 x 0,5 = 58,5, 117 + 58,5 = 175,5 ~ 176. I can be done the other way too, 90 x 0,5 = 45, 90 + 45 = 135, 135 x 0,3 = 40,5, 135 + 40,5 = 175,5 ~ 176.
    Just so that you don't forget STAB, if you now did forget.
  18. fairytale

    fairytale

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    I think Fire Blast is worth it to hit Esca, Durant, and as you mentioned, Ferroseed. I'm not sure I'd rather use FB over flamethrower though, as a fire move is mostly only useful for 4x weaks. I don't know calcs though, maybe it's necessary.
  19. Santuga

    Santuga

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    STAB is included in the calcs already and I used 5th gen Smogon calculator. The damage is pretty much the same on Shaymin because, even though Tauros has more attack, Fire Blast is super effective. On Celebi, Fire Blast does more because it is physically bulky. Plus, the calcs I made were with 120 BP on Rock Climb because I thought it was 33% and not 30%, so Rock Climb should do a little bit less than what I refered, but it should not change the outcome whatsoever.
  20. SuperJOCKE

    SuperJOCKE Lowtier Warrior!
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    (It don't like it when others don't read what's written, but whatever, it doesn't matter.)

    That's not what I meant. Shaymin and Celebi take the exact same damage. Then it depends on the set they are running, but that's a whole other story.
    And you can never be sure i what way Celebi is bulky, it can be Specially Defensive too. And if Celebi runs a Physically Defensive set, then it probably max HP, and that mean it's not a OHKO, even with those two hazards. I don't know what the KO "rate" is with 3 layers but you get my point.

    If STAB is included then Rock Climb's power isn't 117, like you guys said in your posts, it's 176 and nothing else.
  21. Santuga

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    Celebi and Shaymin take about the same amount of HP when they get hit by Fire Blast, since they usually don't run SpD EVs, but the Rock Climb is different, since Celebi often runs a good amount of Def EVs and Shaymin doesn't. And I don't think no one mentioned Rock Climb's power including STAB, but when doing the calcs, STAB is added by default so the calcs are all including STAB. If that is not what you're saying, then I don't understand :s
  22. SuperJOCKE

    SuperJOCKE Lowtier Warrior!
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    It's still not what I'm saying. I'll make short sentences in a list.

    1. I said, Shaymin and Celebi take the exact same damage with the same EVs. BUT, it also depends on what set then are running, and you can't possibly know if its a Nasty Plot, Swords Dance, Physically Defensive or Specially Defensive Celebi you're facing.

    2. In your posts, you only mentioned Rock Climb's power as 117. That made ME confused as it was very low. Then I just said that you should say the full power, including STAB, and not just the Sheer Force Boost.

    I just think Fire Blast isn't that good of a choice.
  23. Santuga

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    1. You can also scout for their sets, Celebi having top priority because it can be specially defensive or physically defensive. As for Shaymin, there is no problem because the bulkiest set I have seen so far is the Leech Seed and it only runs HP investment and that was the set I used in the calcs.

    2. I think most people, when mentioning a move's base power, do not include STAB. For example, Fire Blast's base power is 120 and not 180, even though it's STAB fore Fire-types. Probably you are used to include STAB when referring to base power of moves and that probably confused you, I don't know. Also, sorry if I don't understand things at first, but English is not my first language :s
  24. Snunch

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    I cant really think of a time I'd rather use the second or third set instead of the first. Eviolite Ferroseed is definitely not common enough to warrant mixed attacking on its own, and grass types and Registeel are dealt with by spamming rock climb and earthquake. Mention choice scarf in the AC of the first set and remove the other sets.
  25. Santuga

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    What about the CB or Physical Work Up instead of mix?

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