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DPP OU Team Mighty Morphin Power Rangers!

Discussion in 'RMT Archive' started by Philip7086, Jan 8, 2010.

  1. Philip7086

    Philip7086 Myuu
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    Joined:
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    Team Mighty Morphin Power Rangers[​IMG]
    [​IMG]


    Introduction

    Two months ago, I was picked to play in the Battle of the Week versus ReachZero. Needless to say, I felt a lot of pressure to put forth a good performance. Because of that, I set out to make a brand new team. I started off testing a handful of new sets that I thought had promise. Each set seemed to work well individually, but the team never felt whole, because the members did not work well together. With the deadline drawing near, I started to go through a frenzy of tests, trying out at least 15 different iterations the team. What resulted was one of the best teams I have ever created: Team Mighty Morphin Power Rangers! I went with this name, because just like the Power Rangers, this team rarely ever loses :P (and because they're both ridiculously bad ass). This team is designed to constantly put your opponent in a defensive position by using dual screens and bulky hard hitting Pokemon, so they cannot ever set up offensively. If your opponent is using a defensive team, they will also struggle to stop the myriad of sweepers who are hard to wall, such as CM Wish Jirachi and Salamence. This team netted a nice record of 60-3, taking out many big names and only losing in matches where huge hax was involved (except for versus Zak91, who although got lucky on two occasions, just played really well overall for his win in ST6). Without any further ado, here is...

    The Team

    [​IMG]
    Trini (Uxie) @ Light Clay
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP/36 Def/216 Spd/4 SDef
    Jolly nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Light Screen
    - Reflect
    - Stealth Rock
    - U-turn
    ---

    General: So I'm convinced that Uxie is currently the best overall lead in the game right now. With incredible defenses, access to great moves, and an impressive base speed of 95, Uxie just beats everything. With this particular set that I decided to go with, I have an action plan for every lead I have ever faced. Versus faster Taunt leads (Azelf, Aerodactyl, Gliscor), I just U-Turn out to break their sashes. You might notice that Gliscor and Uxie share the same base speed, which is why I opted to not max my speed (I hate speed ties). Instead of wondering who will be faster, I like to let Uxie take the Taunt (or even Toxic from non-lead Gliscors) and U-Turn out so that my switch in will remain uninhibited. With Jolly and 216 EVs in speed, Uxie also outpaces Roserade leads, allowing me to break their sashes with U-Turn, and go to Mence to take the Sleep Powder with Lum Berry. Now Roserade cannot set up her Toxic Spikes and is forced to die or switch out. Versus slower powerful leads like Metagross and Heatran, I can set up the appropriate screen and laugh at any attack they throw at me, while setting up my own SR. By the time Uxie leaves the scene, I am usually set up with SR and dual screens, ready to bring in whatever beast U-Turn tells me to bring. To top it all off, Uxie is usually so bulky that I can often bring it in again midgame to set screens up again before she goes down for good. At the very least, I can usually keep Uxie for a status absorber, or a death fodder Pokemon later in the match, which is always welcome for a team like this.
    Synergies: Every single member on this team becomes insanely hard to kill behind screens. Uxie also loves to draw in Dark/Ghost/Bug attacks, which gives Heatran a good opportunity to come in and wreck havoc. As I said earlier, Uxie also is the team's designated status absorber and scout. This means that anytime something comes in, and I'm not sure what set it is running, Uxie is a great switch-in. If my opponent makes a wrong move, then they will have fun watching Uxie set up some more screens. Worst case scenario, Uxie comes in, takes a big hit, and allows a free switch for another member to come in and become an instant threat.
    ---
    Trini, much like Uxie, is a very overlooked Power Ranger, often overshadowed by her sister-ranger, Kimberly. However, just like Uxie, Trini is still a huge asset to the Power Rangers; the Megazord cannot even stand without her!


    [​IMG]
    Jason (Heatran) (M) @ Shuca Berry
    Ability: Flash Fire
    EVs: 36 HP/220 Spd/252 SAtk
    Modest nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Magma Storm
    - Hidden Power [Grass]
    - Dragon Pulse
    - Explosion
    ---

    General: Heatran is usually the first Pokemon I go to once I get screens up. This beastly set usually manages to take out at least two Pokemon before going down. It is designed to trap its counters with Magma Storm, and proceed to KO them before they can take Heatran out. The extra 6.25% per turn that Magma Storm does is actually very significant in many situations. It allows Heatran to kill 4HP Latias with Dragon Pulse after SR. It allows Swampert users to not scout for HP Grass anymore by switching out. It allows you to Explode on Blissey without worrying about a switch to a Ghost. The best bonus of Magma Storm, is knowing that your opponent cannot pull a double-switch on you, so you can bring in a guaranteed counter if Heatran must switch out. The EVs are designed to allow Heatran to outspeed everything aiming at beating Jolly Tyranitar. Max special attack with Modest is required to net certain kills. You might be thinking, why not Naughty over Modest, since I'm running Explosion? Well, Explosion is pretty much only used for Blissey, who dies after Magma Storm even with a -attack nature. Because you want this Heatran to take hits and then hit back harder, you really do not want to lose out on your defensive capabilities. Shuca and screens also allows Heatran to weather any attacks and blast everything back, including things like EQs from Mix Mence.
    Synergies: The biggest selling point for using this Heatran, is it draws out and kills/weakens otherwise problematic Pokemon to other members on the this team. This beast baits and kills the likes of Swampert and Scarf Latias, who both check Salamence, Blissey, who walls Latias and Suicune, and Salamence, who can be a general pain to any team. Heatran also does a great job at drawing Pokemon out who allow me to set other members up, such as Gyarados, who is just bait for Suicune to come in and set up.
    ---
    Jason, the original leader of the Power Rangers, loves to dive into situations head-first, just like this Heatran. They both are incredibly strong and sturdy, and put their teams on the path to victory.

    Note: I often switch this Heatran out for Taunt Skarmory, who is incredible with Light Screen support. In fact, the only downside to using Skarmory on this team, is the lack of an anti-spin. I encourage everybody to try out Skarm behind Light Screen, because he will always get a few layers up, and can use Lefties freely, without worrying about Magnezone.
    [​IMG]
    Zack (Jirachi) @ Leftovers
    Ability: Serene Grace
    EVs: 252 HP/80 Def/176 Spd
    Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Wish
    - Thunderbolt
    - Calm Mind
    - Flash Cannon
    ---

    General: Everybody should be familiar with CM Wish Jirachi by now. However, everybody seems to always jump to the Bold, defensive version when they pick it. I personally prefer this spread for almost all situations. Outspeeding the likes of Lucario and everything slower comes in handy more often than you would imagine. Jirachi also just has the natural bulk to not miss those defensive EVs very much (especially since I'm running screens on this team). Wish is always a huge asset on teams with many bulky Pokemon such as this one. Jirachi also serves another huge role on my team: stall breaking. With an immunity to Toxic, and the ability to heal off damage, Jirachi is usually only stopped by Tricks coming from other Jirachis on stall teams, which they only have one chance to pull off. I went with Flash Cannon over Psychic on this set for two reasons: Latias and Tyranitar. Electric + Steel also provides respectable neutral coverage, only being resisted by a few Pokemon in OU.
    Synergies: Jirachi is a great defensive switch in once Uxie can no longer scout for me. Excellent resistances with the ability to heal other members of my team is amazing. Also, Jirachi's typing works fantastically with Latias and Salamence, who resists Fire and Ground attacks, allowing them to come in and heal up with ease. Jirachi also works very well at finishing off the weakened special walls or tanks at the end of the game, that my team gradually weakened throughout the match.
    ---
    How is Zack, the Black Ranger, anything like Jirachi? They both kick major ass! Okay, I'll admit this one was kinda a stretch...


    [​IMG]
    Billy (Suicune) @ Leftovers
    Ability: Pressure
    EVs: 4 HP/252 Spd/252 SAtk
    Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Calm Mind
    - Hidden Power [Electric]
    - Ice Beam
    - Surf
    ---

    General: Offensive Suicune just does not die under screens. You had better hope you're carrying Blissey, or else this thing is likely to either sweep you clean, or severely dent key players. Some people like to use Life Orb on their offensive Suicunes, but that is a huge mistake, IMO. Keeping your opponents in the dark about what kind of sets you are running is more beneficial than the extra 1.3x on your attacks. I have had so many people switch in things like Gyarados, attempting to Roar Suicune out, just to get OHKOed by HP Electric, or Brelooms switch in just to get outsped and OHKOed by Ice Beam. People really underestimate the damage output that this thing can maintain while still taking hits like a champ. Because of this natural bulk, Suicune also does an excellent job of checking offensive threats such as Gyarados and Salamence. I decided to max out speed, just to speed tie other uncommon 252 speed Suicunes. The investment is only slightly more than what I would need to beat Jolly Gyarados anyways, so the bulk I am missing out on is almost negligible. This team could have easily just been Uxie + Suicune, because matches often end with that.
    Synergies: Suicune playes so many roles on this team, it's ridiculous. When paired with Salamence's Intimidate (when screens are down), Suicune can practically check every offensive threat in the game. People also tend to scramble when they see this thing, because aside from Blissey, nothing is stopping it without losing a huge chunk of health. I usually bring Suicune out fairly early for a few reasons. First of all, if screens are still up, I can often win matches before my opponent ever gets to set anything up. Secondly, once my opponents realize that this is an offensive Suicune, they usually do not hesitate to Trick a Choice item on her, which means they often won't have one to throw onto Jirachi later in the match. Suicune also helps me scout teams really well, because people tend to switch around a few times once they figure out what kind of set I'm running.
    ---
    Billy: the nerd who could also destroy you in a fight. Billy can easily figure out weak points of his opponents and use it to his advantage, just like this Suicune, with its awesome coverage. When Zordon was destroyed, and all hope was lost, Billy came to save the day. Suicune has also come in at the end of matches to sweep people clean, when I thought I had lost.


    [​IMG]
    Kimberly (Latias) (F) @ Choice Specs
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 4 HP/252 Spd/252 SAtk
    Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Surf
    - Draco Meteor
    - Dragon Pulse
    - Trick
    ---

    General: Choice Specs Latias is such a huge threat in today's metagame. It basically comes in on any one of its many useful resistances and says "If you don't have Tyranitar, you're at a huge risk of losing a Pokemon." I was originally running this with Skarmory on the team, because after dual entry hazards, this beast 2HKOs pretty much everything not named Blissey. However, Specs Latias hits so hard that it was still very effective even without Skarmory, so I kept it on. Not to mention, Latias's typing is just way too convenient to pass up. Latias also provides me with Trick support, which can really help versus set-up Pokemon, or Blissey. A hard-hitting sturdy Pokemon with unmatched resistances who can also lock opponents onto a single attack? What's not to love!
    Synergies: If I haven't said it enough, Latias provides this team with some much needed type resistances, namely Electric. With natural special bulk and speed, this thing can rip teams apart by just spamming Dragon Pulse at times. Although I will usually open up with Surf, spamming Dragon type attacks later on helps me scout possible Steel types to prepare for when I am ready to bring out Salamence. Latias also helps Suicune sweep sometimes, by netting a Trick on Blisseys. You might have noticed by now that I am using four special attackers as my sweepers. However, three of the four are able to take out Blissey, which is essential for helping Suicune out.
    ---
    Ah Kimberly, my childhood crush. She kicked butt with such unmatched grace and beauty. I would imagine if Pokemon were able to be attracted to one another, Latias would be a perfect 10, just like Kimberly.

    [​IMG]
    Tommy (Salamence) (M) @ Lum Berry
    Ability: Intimidate
    EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spd
    Jolly nature (+Spd, -SDef)
    - Dragon Dance
    - Earthquake
    - Outrage
    - Fire Blast
    ---

    General: It is no secret that I think Salamence is the best Pokemon currently in OU. The raw power and speed, mixed with the factor of uncertainty makes him a wild card that is incredibly hard to predict and stop. I decided to go with this particular set for a few reasons. First of all, behind screens, this guy can almost litterally set up on any Pokemon. I do not fear any status attacks, because of the Lum Berry, and I can take even Ice attacks from bulkier Pokemon. Lum Berry also allows me to bluff Life Orb while setting up my Dragon Dances, which makes people reluctant to leave their Steel types in, for fear of a LO Fire Blast. I left Fire Blast on anyways, though, because 2HKOing things like Skarmory switch-ins is always fun. It is also really fun to Outrage something, just to have my opponent switch to Scizor on my second Outrage, thinking they can scare me away with their Bullet Punch or Confusion, just to have Lum Berry snap me out of it. Because I also don't take LO damage, Scizors cannot just come in for a free revenge kill; my opponent has to get some previous damage on me first (and hope that Reflect is no longer up). People also always seem to fall for the Lum Berry trick. They do what they can to bait out an Outrage, just to lose their Pokemon and have my Salamence back to his senses at +1 still. Max speed with a positive nature is necessary for getting at least a speed-tie with the Choice Scarf base 100's. +1 Outrage still does a ridiculous amount of damage, even without Life Orb, or being Adamant/Naughty. I have used almost every Salamence set known, and this one is by far my favorite.
    Synergies: Although Salamence is usually thought of as a pure sweeper, he serves many more purposes than just that on my team. As I mentioned before, I use Salamence in conjunction with Uxie versus Roserade leads, to guarantee that I do not have to deal with Toxic Spikes with my Suicune. I also use Intimidate to help soften blows against Suicune, so she can revenge-kill almost any offensive threat. Although I'm not running Roost on this set, I can still find ways of healing my Salamence by using his resistances and immunity to Ground attacks, paired with Wish from Jirachi. He also works very well with Latias, both wearing down Steel types for one another, until one breaks through for a clean sweep.
    ---
    Tommy is hands down the coolest Power Ranger to this day, and was my childhood idol. He is probably the reason why green is my favorite color, and why I begged my parents to sign me up for Karate growing up. With his good looks, incredible power, and access to the mighty DRAGONZORD, Tommy is just the best, much like Salamence.

    Conclusion

    When I decided to write this RMT, a lot of people asked me why I wanted to make my best team public. The answer is, just like in my Team of Torment RMT, because I wanted to try and inspire people in their team building process (and of course, show off a little at the same time :P). Whereas Team of Torment was made to inspire creativity and originality when building teams, this was made to inspire synergy. Every member of this team helps each other out in many different ways. Whether it's helping to weaken each others counters, or teaming up to stop threats, or setting each other up to sweep, synergy is constantly being utilized. Because of this, I can usually overwhelm my opponents by the end of the match, opening up multiple options for victory.

    When all of the Mighty Morphin Power Rangers team up, it's pretty much game over for anyone who opposes. Let's be honest, nobody can ever beat the MEGADRAGONZORD!

    [​IMG]

    Special thanks to Bloo, zerowing, and Silent Storm, for helping me with my Photoshop problems!


    This Just In! Threat List! (Based off of Earthworm/Shiki's RMT, but with an updated top 50 list!)

    [​IMG]Scizor:
    -SD Variant: Heatran beats it, Suicune hits it really hard. It can’t set up on anything except for Latias stuck on a Dragon move, which I never even use until after I have seen my opponent’s team.
    -CB Variant: Pretty much the same as above.

    [​IMG]Salamence:
    -MixMence: Jirachi or Heatran can take Draco Meteor, Latias and Suicune can Revenge Kill.
    -DD LO Mence: If it has Outrage, I can revenge kill with Jirachi or Heatran. It also has a hard time grabbing a DD against this team. If it doesn’t have Outrage, I use Intimidate and Suicune.
    -DD Bulky Mence: Suicune can beat it.
    -SpecsMence: Just a prediction game. If I predict wrong, then I usually have an opportunity to set something else up. For instance, Jirachi can set up on Draco Meteor, Suicune and Mence can set up on Fire Blast. Latias can revenge all versions.
    -CBMence: Mostly the same as SpecsMence.

    [​IMG]Rotom-A:
    -Scarf: Heatran wins. I usually use Uxie to absorb a Trick if I see it coming. It also can’t really threaten anything, as a +1 Cune does a lot of damage to it, and allows me to switch in Latias for free if it uses Thunderbolt.
    -Restalk: Heatran, Jirachi, and Latias beat this.
    -SubCharge Beam: I usually either have screens or a CM up by the time this thing comes out, so I can usually win out. Otherwise, I usually just CM along with it with Jirachi.

    [​IMG]Tyranitar:
    -CBTar: Every member outspeeds and hits it for SE.
    -LO Tar: Same as above.
    -DDTar: This one’s tricky. If Jirachi’s out with +1, I will hit it with Flash Cannon and then go to Salamence for the Intimidate on the Fire Punch or Earthquake. I will then usually sacrifice Salamence so Suicune can finish it off.
    -BOAH Variants: Can’t really set up on anything.
    -CurseTar: Just bash it with SE hits until it faints.

    [​IMG]Latias:
    -Specs: Jirachi can beat it if it’s locked on a Dragon move, and Latias can beat it otherwise.
    -Scarf: See above.
    -LO Sweeper: Jirachi deals with this just fine.
    -CM Latias: Jirachi can beat non-HP Fire versions, and Latias can beat HP Fire versions.

    [​IMG]Heatran:
    -Lead Shuca/SashTran: I set up Light Screen first, then use Stealth Rock
    -ScarfTran: Find out what it’s locked on, and set up on it. I have Suicune, Latias, and Salamence, so this usually isn’t a problem.
    -SpecsTran: Same as above, but I usually will sacrifice something if my own Heatran is already dead.
    -LO Tran: Suicune and Latias beat this.
    -SubHeatran: Suicune is usually my first switch in. If they Roar, I have a good chance of Latias or Salamence coming out to finish the job.

    [​IMG]Gyarados:
    -Leftovers DD: Jirachi and Suicune.
    -Life Orb DD: Suicune.
    -Restalk: Jirachi and Suicune
    -Thunder Wave or Substitute: Jirachi and Suicune.

    [​IMG]Metagross:
    -Lead Gross: Set up Reflect, then SR, then Light Screen and U-Turn to Heatran.
    -CBGross: Jirachi, Suicune or Heatran take advantage of Meteor Mash. Salamence or Latias take advantage of Earthquake. Suicune, Jirachi, and Heatran take advantage of the other moves.
    -MixGross: Heatran, Salamence.
    -Agiligross: This can only set up on Latias stuck on a Dragon move, which I do not use until I have scouted my opponent’s team anyways.

    [​IMG]Jirachi:
    -Scarf Jirachi: Heatran. Also, I set up certain Pokemon depending on what Rachi is stuck on. I also use Uxie or Heatran to take the Trick
    -Expert Belt Jirachi: Heatran. Latias hits it hard. Suicune and Rachi can live a hit and hit back.
    -CM Jirachi: Heatran. Salamence can hit with EQ, Latias can hit with Trick or Surf. Also has a hard time setting up on anything.
    -Support Jirachi: Heatran. I will usually play this recklessly without switching, because I don’t want to lose more than one Pokemon to Paralysis.

    [​IMG]Infernape:
    -MixApe: Latias and Suicune.
    -Physical Ape: Latias and Intimidate + Suicune.
    -ScarfApe: Same as all other Choice item Pokemon.

    [​IMG]Lucario:
    -SD: Salamence. All Pokemon outpace and hit hard too, except Heatran.
    -Specs: Same as above, but I’ll usually sacrifice something.

    [​IMG]Gengar:
    -LO Gengar: Hope Light Screen is up, or else I’m probably sacrificing something. Latias can Speed tie and beat HP Fire versions. Otherwise, Jirachi and Suicune can take a hit and hit hard back.
    -ScarfGengar: Set up Jirachi or Suicune. Also, Heatran takes advantage of Shadow Ball.
    -SubGengar: Jirachi can Calm Mind up w/ this.

    [​IMG]Swampert:
    -Standard Mixpert: Just hit this with whatever is out, except for Jirachi. I usually have Screens up, which they try to stall out by Roaring, so they die eventually.
    -CBPert: Set up Salamence on Waterfall or EQ, and set up Suicune or Jirachi on Ice Punch.
    -Cursepert: Latias can Trick, Suicune can beat it.

    [​IMG]Starmie:
    -LO Starmie: Annoying. If this comes in on Heatran, I’ll usually sacrifice myself to it, because Light Screen is usually up. If it comes in on Latias, I’ll switch to Uxie to take the Ice Beam and set up Light Screen. If it kills something, Jirachi comes in to hit it with Tbolt.
    -Rapid Spinner: Uxie comes in to set up Screens and SR again, and U-Turn out.
    -Choice Starmie: Same way I deal with any Choice Pokemon.

    [​IMG]Blissey:
    -WishBliss: If Heatran doesn’t kill, Jirachi can beat it, and Mence can set up all over it. Latias can Trick.
    -Non-wish Bliss: Same as above.

    [​IMG]Azelf:
    -Lead Azelf: U-Turn to Heatran on Taunt. Though, apparently people are catching on to my team and Exploding on turn 1, so I will just switch to Heatran instead of U-Turning, who can kill it through sash with Magma Storm anyways.
    -NP Azelf: Luckily nobody uses this anymore, because I don’t have any solid counter. I think Suicune can take a hit and hit back with Surf. Also, Latias can probably take a hit too depending on the moveset. If Azelf comes in on anything, I will attack it while they set up NP, so they probably won’t be able to do much more damage.
    -Scarf Azelf: Same way I deal with all Choice Pokemon.

    [​IMG]Gliscor:
    -SD Gliscor: Suicune wins, so does Latias.
    -Stall Gliscor: Latias and Suicune.
    -BP Gliscor: This is pretty big. Suicune makes sure it won’t get much passed, though. Latias also forces it to Taunt, for fear of Trick, so it can usually only pass Speed.

    [​IMG]Magnezone:
    -Substitute: Can’t really set up a Sub on anything, so not really a threat. Suicune beats it after a CM, so that’s no big deal. Jirachi has no other choice but to CM up against it. Latias stuck on a Dragon move, I guess, but as I’ve said before, I never use Dragon moves until the whole team has been scouted.
    -Scarf: Latias will destroy it if stuck on Tbolt, Suicune really don’t fear it too much anyways. It comes in on my CM, I surf, then go to Latias. Rachi just CM’s up.

    [​IMG]Skarmory:
    -Spiker: This team has primarily Special Attackers, so Skarm never finds a good opportunity to switch in on anything. Mence and Latias 2HKO.

    [​IMG]Machamp:
    -ResTalk: Just spam it with hits until it dies. On revenge, Heatran or Latias are good choices to finish it off.
    -Substitute: Won’t pull a Sub off on anything except Uxie, so same as above. Usually Suicune comes out if it subs on Uxie, though, for Pressure and whatnot.

    [​IMG]Vaporeon:
    -WishProtect Vaporeon: Jirachi, Suicune, and Latias can beat this. Also, Salamence can set up on non Ice Beam variants.
    -SpecsVaporeon: Specs water attacks means free set ups for Suicune and Mence, and Latias also enjoys free attacks.

    [​IMG]Breloom:
    -SubPuncher: If this comes in on Heatran or Latias stuck on Surf (only two Pokemon it can come in on freely) then I go to Salamence to take the Spore, hit with Intimidate, and threaten with Fire Blast.
    -ScarfLoom: Same as all Choice Pokemon. Uxie is my Sleep fodder.

    [​IMG]Dragonite:
    -Lead: Light Screen to take the Draco Meteor, then Reflect, then SR and U-Turn.
    -DDNite: Intimidate + Suicune always works. Also, if stuck on Outrage, I can kill it with Heatran or Rachi.
    -MixNite: My whole team outspeeds and can hit it hard, or OHKO, except Heatran, who I will switch to Salamence with to take the Super Power or EQ.

    [​IMG]Zapdos:
    -Defensive: Jirachi beats it. Latias hits it hard. Suicune also beats it if it comes in at +1.
    -Offensive: Latias beats it, Heatran dents it hard, or Explodes. If it comes in at +1 Cune or Rachi, it loses.
    -Choiced: Specs Tbolt usually requires a sacrifice. Luckily Specs can’t come in very often.

    [​IMG]Flygon:
    -Band/Scarf: Same way I deal with all Choice Pokemon.
    -Roost LO/Stall: Suicune and Latias beat this.

    [​IMG]Kingdra:
    -DD Kingdra: I usually leave whatever is in to hit it hard. If this comes in on Specs Surf, I can be in trouble. I’ll usually have to sacrifice Salamence to get an Intimidate and bait the Outrage.
    -Rain Dance Mix: Suicune can weather some attacks from this. I can also play around to stall it out of Rain and revenge with Latias or Salamence. If it’s Rain Dance DD, then Suicune just wails on it, and Mence will have to bait an Outrage from it afterwards, for Jirachi to finish it off.

    [​IMG]Suicune:
    -Offensive CMer: Trick with Latias, and then set up my own Cune. If it has Sub, I’ll just continue to hit it hard with Latias so that Mence can come in and finish once its Sub is gone.
    -ResTalk: Trick from Latias. Also, Mence sets up on mono-water versions, and while it is asleep for Ice Beam Rest versions.
    -Roar: Trick and hit with whatever’s out.

    [​IMG]Celebi:
    -Defensive: Heatran and Jirachi can beat it. Also, if it comes in on +1 Suicune, it loses.
    -CM / CM Pass: CM along with it with Jirachi, or Trick with Latias. Heatran should also be able to take a +1 Earth Power, as long as Celebi doesn’t have LO, and KO back.
    -SD Pass: Trick or set up with another Pokemon, so I can hit the switch-in hard.
    -Choice: Not much of a threat. Use Uxie or Heatran to eat the Trick, and then play as if it were defensive.

    [​IMG]Jolteon:
    -Specs: Latias sets gets a free hit on Tbolt. I can also set up Light Screen vs. this, and set something like Salamence or Jirachi up.
    -Substitute: I will usually go to set up Jirachi here. Also, Heatran does the job of breaking sub.
    -Charge Beam: Heatran, and hopefully Light Screen is up so I can take hits better and kill it fast enough with something like Latias.

    [​IMG]Empoleon:
    -Lead: Light Screen first, then SR, then Reflect, then U-Turn to Suicune.
    -AgilityPetaya: Jirachi sets up on this. Suicune also sets up on Ice Beam versions. GK versions, Latias deals with just fine.
    -AgilityLife Orb: Jirachi hits it hard. This thing can’t really set up on anything but Latias anyways. Also, Suicune can take a hit and hit hard back with HP Elec.
    -Specs: Same as all Choice item Pokemon.
    -SD: Suicune and Salamence do a decent job versus this.

    [​IMG]Forretress:
    -Spinner: Free chance for Heatran to come in and trap something. Also, can’t really come in on anything, as it would just be free set up fodder.

    [​IMG]Bronzong:
    -Standard Leftovers / Light Clay: Kinda annoying. Just keep hitting it until it dies eventually. Not a big threat.
    -CMZong: Trick, Heatran, CM up with it with Jirachi.
    -Trick: Uxie or Heatran to take the Trick. Then handle it like the standard version.

    [​IMG]Togekiss:
    -Flinch Kiss: Jirachi can usually beat this out, bar major hax. Suicune hits it hard, so does Latias. Trick if it becomes too problematic.
    -Scarf Trick: Same as all Choice item Pokemon.

    [​IMG]Electivire:
    -Physical LO: If screens are up, this isn’t a problem, even with the boost. If no screens, I usually Trick with Latias to lock it.
    -MixVire: Same as above.

    [​IMG]Snorlax:
    -CB: Same as all Choice item Pokemon.
    -Curselax: Trick it. Suicune can also usually beat this one-on-one. Reflect also helps.

    [​IMG]Aerodactyl:
    -Lead: U-Turn to break Sash, and go to Suicune, who can OHKO, and make sure that most switch-ins don’t get a free set up.
    -LO Sweeper: Cune takes a hit and KO’s back.

    [​IMG]Weavile:
    -Lead: U-Turn to break sash and go to Heatran. Brick Break won’t KO Heatran, and I’ll KO back.
    -CB: Same as all Choice item Pokemon.
    -SD: Suicune and Jirachi can usually take a hit and retaliate pretty hard.

    [​IMG]Tentacruel:
    -Toxic Spiker: I’ll usually get Suicune in before it can get a layer out, so I can start CMing up. Also, pretty much all members of my team have a way of beating this.

    [​IMG]Dusknoir:
    -Standard Wall: Just hit it with whatever’s in. It will die eventually.

    [​IMG]Mamoswine:
    -Lead: Reflect on turn 1, then SR, and then U-Turn to Suicune.
    -LO Sweeper: Suicune and Jirachi both outspeed and hit it with a powerful SE STAB attack.
    -CB: Same way I deal with all Choice item Pokemon.

    [​IMG]Roserade:
    -Lead: I outspeed and U-Turn to Salamence to take the Sleep Powder and KO back.
    -Non-Lead Spiker: Again, I’ll go to Salamence to take the Sleep Powder and attack hard. Also, if I’m faster, I’ll just hit it hard.
    -LO Sweeper: Plenty of sweepers who can take advantage of this. Jirachi, Salamence, Latias, Heatran.

    [​IMG]Smeargle:
    -Lead: U-Turn to Salamence again. If Scarfed, I don’t mind Uxie taking the Sleep, and then going to another sweeper to set up.
    -Belly Drum Pass: I’ll just stay in with whatever I have, because I’ll likely outspeed and OHKO anyways. At least, I should be able to do enough damage to not allow it to get a BD off.

    [​IMG]Hippowdon:
    -Wall: Suicune and Latias beat this just fine.

    [​IMG]Ninjask:
    -Lead passer: Reflect and go straight to Suicune before I SR. This allows me to start setting up with Reflect up, so I can usually kill whatever it passes to before it kills me.

    [​IMG]Heracross:
    -CB: Same way I deal with all Choice item Pokemon. Salamence tends to love this.
    -Scarf: See above.
    -SD: Plenty of Pokemon to outspeed and KO before this can do much damage.

    [​IMG]Porygon-Z:
    -Specs: Same way I deal with all Choice item Pokemon. Though I really don’t like Tri-Attack’s status properties. I also outpace with most Pokemon.
    -Nasty Plot: Most of my Pokemon can outspeed and kill it. Heatran does a number too.

    [​IMG]Cresselia:
    -Wall: Just CM up with Jirachi or Suicune. They also love to try and status my +1 Mence, who just Outrages for huge damage.
    -Dual Screen Lunar Dance: Just set myself up so I can combat whatever comes out.
    -Trick: Uxie and Heatran takes the trick, then deal with it as a common wall.
    -Calm Mind: Trick, or Calm Mind up with Jirachi.

    [​IMG]Umbreon:
    -Standard wall: Just set hit hard with whatever is currently out. I usually go to Uxie to scout what kind of Uxie it is, though, so I can U-Turn out.
    -Mean Look Yawn BPer: Go to Uxie to U-Turn to Salamence with the Yawn. Then I DD and attack away.

    Phewf, that took a long time to do! That pretty much summarizes how I handle the top 50 threats in OU. Please keep in mind that the way this team is designed to play, most of these threats have to be on the defensive themselves. What I have posted here, are basically worst case scenarios of each threat (if they somehow have forced me in a position where I need to stop them, instead of vice versa).

    Hope you liked this RMT! :)
  2. MetaGross66

    MetaGross66

    Joined:
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    Messages:
    551
    I loved that show! :)

    Having used a really similar strategy to this before, I can say it's amazingly difficult to stop bulky set up Pokemon under screens. The only problem I had was pseudo hazers which I tried to fix with a Heatran and couldn't, but Magma Storm never slipped my mind so nice job there. Suicune could use Substitute to make setting up easier as I have found a lot of people rely on Tricking Suicune a choice item to stop it like this. Of course you miss out on killing other Bulky Waters quickly, but Roar Gyarados is set up fodder for Jirachi and so are the other Bulky Waters. Boosted Surfs still hurt, too. Substitute also lets you set up on Blissey and gives a fool proof counter to all the OU Dragons under Dual Screens considering you use the EV spread in the analysis. Try it, it might work for you. Other than that, you have a pretty nice team. I really like how Uxie serves as the DS user here. You don't have to rely on 2 of them to keep up your pace, but you lose to Gliscor.
  3. remlabmez

    remlabmez @dacopboss
    is a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis a Past WCoP Winner

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    Since this is rate my team and not praise my team I did find a few problems while using this team on ladder. Thought you posted the heatran version over the skarm version. I had a lot of trouble just taking down standard azelf with taunt/fb/psychic/explosion. I would have to sac a pokemon early just to take down a lead, though I guess with the heatran version its not as much as a big deal.

    The one weakness that was a pain in the ass was any type of LO SpA user, such as gengar, or LO starmie. Without screen up these things were a pain in the ass to handle and would involve saccing pokemon just to weaken them. Also no priority was a pain in the ass. Also roar swampert was a pain if it keeps roaring rachi and mence instead of heatran/cune but thats just RNG

    Though the team is very good, I do think it has some flaws, but if you are going to retire this team than I don't see a point in trying to fix these flaws.
  4. Tarquin

    Tarquin

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2009
    Messages:
    294
    Blew Me Away. From a whole unorthodox but great team concept to the tiny and brilliantly effective tailored sets that throw the enemy off, I thought it was wonderful, the kind team I'd love to use but hate to try and face.

    I was also impressed with the use of the pokemon that present huge threats on their own, and almost by being such huge threats, all support each other, as the opponent will feel the heat trying to take them ALL down, especially under screens.

    This is, essentially, Heavy Offence, without the need to go around sacrificing anything and without the fear of even the tiniest hax, and I think it is in general a big improvement on that genre. Final comment on team structure, the use of Dual Screens to support pokemon that are also bulky as (note. Suicune, Jirachi) is something that is too easily overlooked and is shown for its true effectiveness here. Definitely inspiring and the best team I have seen in months. Enough to make me actually write a comment =D.

    Trying to find a weakness is tough...I would hazard that the team in infact only really weak to combinations. Rotom strikes me as being a bit of a bitch to face, simply because it can if it is either (W) or (H) do severe damage to four / five pokemon by itself. Wish and Calm Mind would cover this thought I'd imagine, as well as smart switching and Dual Screens.

    Swords Dance Lucario could be a pain to face late game without Reflect or a hiealthy Salamence, outspeeding Heatran and KOing Heatran, not taking critical damage from Suicune, Jirachi and I'd guess 2HKOing Uxie if it comes in to set up reflect, or just SDing on it again. It would have a hard time coming on, but Latias's Choiced Dragon Moves, or Predicting an Uxie switch would do nicely, and it could SD twice if Uxie used reflect, kind of negating it.

    Not a big threat by any means, but one that could be a pain late game, potentially taking a pokemon or two down with it. Not really worth changing anything significant to rectify this that I can see so far, but I'll have a think about it.

    Once again, brilliant brilliant stuff.
    Tarquin.

    EDIT : As pointed out above, without Light Screen LO SpA that tie or Outspeed Latias (so Latias, Gengar, Starmie, Jolteon) could really be a pain, doing too much damage to the CMers on the first hit to stall out, meaning sacrificing could be needed. Unforunately alot of there guys has access to coverage that badly hurts the team (Ghost, Electric) (Water, Electric, Ice) (Dragon, Water, Electric). Jirachi seems best against these foes, but not by much.
  5. Philip7086

    Philip7086 Myuu
    is a Tutor Alumnusis a Tournament Director Alumnusis a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Battle Server Admin Alumnusis a Smogon IRC SOp Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis an Administrator Alumnusis Smogon Frontier's Factory Headis a Past WCoP Winneris a SPL Winnerdefeated the Smogon Frontier

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    I actually explain that I welcome Trick on Suicune, as it allows me to not worry as much when setting up Rachi later in the match. Also, Roar Gyarados can't really be set up fodder for Jirachi, because he will just shuffle me around, racking up entry hazard damage. I considered Substitute over HP Electric, but HP Electric was just overall more useful. Substitute loses you a turn of screens and you still have to set up your CM's, whereas this set just allows you to blast from the get-go. Also, I explain how I play against Gliscors with Uxie, and why I chose the EV spread I use. Thanks for the suggestions ^_^

    Yeah, Heatran really helped as a replacement over Skarmory for Azelf leads. Also, LO special attackers are definitely annoying, but the way this team is played is so that they never get a chance to come in except for against something that already has a CM under its belt, or with screens up. If that isn't possible, then Uxie makes a great switch in as a sacrifice, so something bulky can come in, take a hit, and KO back. This team has enough bulk to go around, usually. For instance, in one of my more recent matches w/ this team, a LO Starmie crit my Uxie for a kill before I could get Screens up, then crit my Rachi before I could do anything, and I still came out to win in the end. I never had too much issues against Pert when I used the team, cause it usually comes in on Heatran and just gets rawked. Suicune also does a helluva lot with +1 Surf, and Latias takes chunks away as well. The only Pokemon that can't really do much to Swampert is Jirachi.
  6. GAK

    GAK

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2008
    Messages:
    1,360
    I would just like to say that you have an awesome team here, and that I love your set up and presentation. This should be in the Archive IMO.
  7. iShedinja

    iShedinja

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2009
    Messages:
    470
    This is a VERY good team. I my self am a huge fan of Uxie leads as they just get the job done every time. The only thing is that I see a slight potential Scarf Flygon weakness, but since your Philip, I know you know how to get around that.

    Heavy offense is one of the most viable battle style in this metagame, and this team strives for a bulkier version of that. You have some nice synergy between pokemon and all of your pokemon work so well together. I just ask why not use roost over Fire blast and run a jolly nature? You certainly have enough forretress and skarmory checks..


    Very, very nice team. I love every single pokemon in it :)
  8. Enygma

    Enygma

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2009
    Messages:
    372
    His team has enough bulk to handle scarfgon. Once he figures what move its stuck on, he can sac the current member and pull in something that resists it. its not really a weakness to be exact.

    The reason he wants FB over Roost and the current set is to bait Scizor into his Outrage. He knows Scizor cant do jackshit against his BulkyMence. He continues his final turn of Outrage as the stupid bug BP's only to realize that his Mence is bulky, but it will be too late as his own Mence snaps out of confusion and fucks the bug hard in the ass with Fire Blast, thus ridding the opponent of Scizor.

    Without Scizor, his Jirachi just absolutely rapes the opposing team, bending em over and thrusting his manhood in their tender asses.

    And I agree with giving Jolly a test. Here are some calcs:

    Jolly FB vs. Standard Forretress = 143.5% - 169.5%
    Jolly FB vs. RhysTalk Forretress = 127.7% - 150.3%
    Jolly FB vs. Standard Skarmory = 67.7% - 79.6%
    Jolly FB vs. Max HP + Max SpD Skarmory = 50.3% - 59.3%


    Obviously Jolly FB OHKO's all Scizor variants, as well as Forretress variants.

    With Jolly, you get some more SpD bulk that you didnt have with Naive.

    Just a suggestion. Great team. I am inspired now. I might even post my own team that has been successful, but on account of the Official Marriland Tourney going on right now, I might not.

    ***** stars :heart:
  9. Senzairu

    Senzairu

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2009
    Messages:
    111
    I think you should include a threat list, Philip. I like the presentation btw. I use to watch Power Rangers too :D

    Did you ever ladder with this team? Because I did and it wasn't as successful as I thought it would be. I created the team on Shoddy to test it out and here's what I came up with it....

    Noticeable threats/problems:

    Ninjask - Yes, as ridiculous as this sounds. This team is Ninjask weak. Of course, by Ninjask weak I mean Baton Pass teams have their way with it since there is no priority and more importantly, no phaser. If you choose to switch, you're giving Ninjask a free Sub and if you stay in to set up screens, you're giving Ninjask several turns to Sub up and start Sword Dancing. Above all else, I think you need a phaser on this team or BP teams absolutely destroy it.

    Gyarados - Without a revenge killer, DDGyara could set up on something like Heatran or Latias locked into Surf. Then with a DD under its belt and a good coverage moveset, could proceed to put a huge dent into your team.

    Salamence - Like Gyarados, all you can really do is try and endure a hit from DDmence and than KO it with something like Suicune of Jirachi.

    Lucario - It seems to have a lot of trouble setting up, but thanks for Magma Storm's shaky accuracy, it could potentially set-up on Heatran (which would be kind of ironic) and then, like DDGyara and DDmence, maybe not sweep your team, but definitely put a dent in it.

    Empoleon - If it's running three attacks and manages to get an agility, it could potentially sweep your whole team.

    The team itself:

    Uxie - After using it on Shoddy several times, I really think Uxie is UU for a reason. It's a lot like a different version of Smeargle. It serves a specific purpose and can be a potential liability if it's purpose isn't served properly. Another problem with Uxie is that it's potential set-up fodder both for set-up sweepers and for Spikers/other leads. Uxie can't hurt other leads anywhere near enough to stop them from setting up.

    Plus, I've found that the screens can be easily outlasted and broken with Brick Break. I think something like dual screen Bronzong would be better:

    Bronzong @ Light Clay/Lum Berry
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 152 Atk / 8 Def / 96 SpD
    Relaxed nature (+Defense, -Speed)
    ~ Reflect
    ~ Light Screen
    ~ Gyro Ball/Earthquake
    ~ Explosion/Hypnosis

    This gives your team a dual screen user with great bulk, better offensive power, and better typing. Light Clay is obviously the suggested item, but Lum Berry is there if you want to be cured of sleep for a turn and then retaliate against Roserade or Smeargle with Hypnosis. But Light Clay is likely the better choice overall.

    Any combination of the four moves there will work. I didn't put Stealth Rock on there because I'm going to suggest it later on a Pokemon that can make better use of it.

    Heatran - I admire the attempt at originality but Magma Storm hasn't been on any of Heatran sets for a reason. The accuracy of the move cost me a battle or a match-up on more than one occasion. Plus, half the time I trapped something, I couldn't KO it before it KO'd me thanks to Heatran's slower speed stat.

    When I first saw this set, I thought it looked pretty cool and potentially very effective. But upon testing it in battle, I think Heatran has many other sets that are far more effective. I would try this one:

    Heatran @ Shuca Berry/Leftovers
    Ability: Flash Fire
    EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe / 4 HP
    Naive nature (+Speed, -Special Defense)
    ~ Fire Blast
    ~ Earth Power
    ~ Stealth Rock
    ~ Explosion / Will-O-Wisp

    This set give Heatran a lot more use for your team. It can set up SR and then do as it pleases, either blowing up on a potential threat, or burning Pokes like Salamence, Gyarados, and Tyranitar who will often switch into Heatran without a second thought. Also with Earth Power and Shuca Berry, Heatran can KO opposing Heatrans even if they outspeed him. This also prevents the threat of a Heatran switching into Magma Storm and getting a Flash Fire boost, since even if one does get the boost from Fire Blast, it can be KO'd next turn with Earth Power.

    Jirachi - This set worked surprisingly well. I liked setting up against Crocune. However, I think you have one too many set-up sweepers which in turn makes you too dependent on setting up screens. I wouldn't necessarily change Jirachi (I'm leaning more towards Suicune), but I really think one of your set-up sweepers has to go. Plus, this team seems to be favoring Special attacks way too much. Your only physical offense is Salamence. And I think this set would help against stall:

    Jirachi @ Expert Belt
    Ability: Serene Grace
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 SpA
    Jolly nature (+Speed, -Special Attack)
    ~ Iron Head
    ~ Fire Punch
    ~ Ice Punch
    ~ Thunderbolt/Grass Knot

    This set gives you some much needed physical offense and is also largely unexpected. I've used this set to great success on shoddy, often getting a surprise KO from people who think I'm carrying a scarf.

    Suicune - I really like this set, especially considering Suicune's bulk. But like I said before, I think you need to get rid of one of your set-up sweepers and I think Suicune is the one. Since you're using Offensive Cune, I suggest this:

    Starmie @ Life Orb
    Ability: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe / 4 Def
    Timid nature (+Speed, -Attack)
    ~ Hydro Pump
    ~ Ice Beam
    ~ Thunderbolt
    ~ Recover

    Starmie does basically the same thing Suicune is doing. But Starmie has more speed and recovery to make up for the lack of bulk.

    Latias - You don't see this set too much anymore. It's got a lot of power and Trick is nice, but the lack of recovery on something bulky like Latias is kind of disappointing to not see. However, in this case, I think the helpfulness of Trick on this team kind of makes up for it. I'd leave it as is unless you find Dragon Dancers to be too much of a problem then I would change it to a scarfed Latias.

    Salamence - Definitely my favorite member of the team. I usually favor the Mixmence set myself. However, I like the many uses I've found using DDmence with Lum Berry. It's been really helpful. I don't think I'd change anything about him :)

    Final Note:

    This is a really nice team you've got here Philip which is why I had to rate. I'm sure you're looking more to show off the team rather than look for advice but even so, I wanted to give some ideas that would help to make it better. I hope you give my suggestions a try and good luck with the team!
  10. Philip7086

    Philip7086 Myuu
    is a Tutor Alumnusis a Tournament Director Alumnusis a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Battle Server Admin Alumnusis a Smogon IRC SOp Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis an Administrator Alumnusis Smogon Frontier's Factory Headis a Past WCoP Winneris a SPL Winnerdefeated the Smogon Frontier

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    Yeah, I plan on editing in a threat list once I get some free time.

    When I used this team on the ladder, it went around 35-0. I also know that since I posted this team, xianglongfa tested it out on the ladder yesterday and went 15-1, so maybe you're not using it correctly? I might ladder on my main with this team in the future so people can see how it is used properly.

    Well I originally had Taunt Skarm on this team, which was my switch-in for Ninjask. However, without Skarm, I usually just use Reflect, then U-Turn with Uxie, and go to Suicune to start CMing up. By the time they pass, I should be able to have Reflect up, +1, and my opponent not behind sub. I've faced a few Ninjask teams, and have not lost to any.

    Suicune can take any +1 attack from Gyarados and KO back with HP Electric. Jirachi can also take non-LO EQs and hit w/ Thunderbolt, and Latias can take +1 attacks not called Ice Fang, and KO back with Draco Meteor. Don't forget about Mence's intimidate too, and you should always aim for keeping screens up.

    Mence should not be able to set up on anything except a Specs Surf, or a +1 Rachi. Also, just like what I said with Gyarados, utilize Intimidate to soften blows to Suicune, so she can live and kill with Ice Beam. The reason it's not always a good idea to aim for a priority attack, or a Choice Scarf Pokemon to beat Salamence, is it allows you to be locked onto something so that your opponent can set something else up for free. Part of the goal for this team was to not allow myself to be stuck in "check" situations by my opponent. A lot of players are stuck in the mindset that you need to outspeed Salamence to revenge kill it, but that's not the case at all.

    Jirachi outspeeds, Salamence Intimidates and outspeeds, Suicune outspeeds Adamant versions.. Luke is probably the offensive Pokemon I have the most checks for on this team, so.. I don't really know what you're doing wrong here o_O

    I'm not really too sure how Empoleon is going to beat the two Calm Minders I have, especially Jirachi..

    I don't mean to offend you or anything, but if you are having trouble with these Pokemon, then I'm inclined to believe that you were definitely not using the team properly, or you did not test it very thoroughly. With the combination of dual screens, and hard hitters, offensive Pokemon almost never give me trouble at all.

    The purpose of Uxie is not to stop other leads from setting up. The purpose is to ensure that no lead has an advantage over you. I really can't understand the benefit that Bronzong has over Uxie, especially the lead your recommended. As I said, I'm not trying to hit anything hard with Uxie. Instead, I just set up screens and get up my SR, so that the rest of my team can come in with greater ease. It is a support lead; it is not meant to hit hard.

    I'm curious to know what you couldn't kill that came in on Magma Storm. In my experience, there have only been two Pokemon that Heatran has to switch out of, once it traps with Magma Storm: Vaporeon and Gyarados. For both Pokemon, Suicune makes a fine switch in. You're right about Magma Storm's accuracy sucking, though. That's just a matter of preference, I suppose. I have tried other Heatran sets in this place, but this one is by far my favorite, for its ability to support the team really well. If you don't like the 70% acc, then maybe try Taunt Skarmory in this slot. That was the original member, and it served me well.

    CM Wish Jirachi is notorious for its ability to stop stall teams. Moreso than EB Rachi. Can you please explain to me why favoring special attacks is a bad thing, when three of my four special attackers can beat Blissey?

    When you rate teams and offer suggestions, it helps to explain why you think a change is necessary. All you tell me is that you think I need to get rid of one of my set up sweepers, and you don't tell me why. Also, if I were going to user Starmie, I would use Rapid Spin, to potentially help Salamence out. You seem to be overlooking the fact that Suicune is my main method of stopping Salamence and Gyarados, which Starmie cannot do. Also, Starmie dies to Adamant SD Luke's ES, which instantly makes me more weak to most of the threats you mentioned.

    Yeah these two are definitely beasts. Scarf Latias is always a great revenge killer, but being so open for Pursuit really makes it not a good Pokemon, IMO. Whereas, Specs Latias can hit Pursuiters really hard (only Scarf Tyranitar or heavily specially defensive Tyranitars can Pursuit w/o getting 2HKOed).

    Although I don't really agree with most of your suggestions, I really appreciate the time you took to write them up. The best suggestion I thought you made was the Heatran change, but like I said, I've tried it and I just like this one more (even with my terrible luck!). I have had a friend tell me that the learning curve for this team is somewhat big, so maybe you just need to get used to how it's played more to start winning as much as you'd like. Good luck with the team in the future, and thanks again!

    On a side note: the reason I opted for Naive Mence, over Jolly, is definitely because of specially defensive Skarmorys. I actually had Jolly for a while, but when I missed the 2HKO on a Skarm once, I changed it. Behind screens, Mence still takes hits like a champ, even at Naive. I took 53% from a Suicune's Ice Beam while running Naive, which is pretty impressive if you ask me. Thanks for the suggestion though!
  11. Senzairu

    Senzairu

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2009
    Messages:
    111
    I've been using your team on the ladder more and I think you may be right about the learning curve. The only opinions of mine that have been holding true is Uxie being dead weight, Heatran's moveset, and BP teams. Usually when a Metagross gets passed a few speed boosts and a Swords Dance or two it's gg without a phaser.

    Instead of Uxie, have you tried a Swampert lead? I know that ruins the theme and the dual screen idea but its been working better for me.

    Swampert @ Leftovers
    Ability: Torrent
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Atk
    Relaxed nature (+Defense, -Speed)
    ~ Earthquake
    ~ Ice Beam
    ~ Stealth Rock
    ~ Roar

    Like I said before, the problem I have with Heatran is his lack of speed, often getting me KO'd by Latias, and Blissey can be tricky with Protect. But like your lead, these things are personal preferences, I guess. I've never been a big fan of dual screen strategies or Pokemon like Uxie and Smeargle who can't do much after SR and Screens/Spore.

    But overall, this is a fantastic team. I'm still laddering with it and I really like it. The only changes I've really made is the Swampert lead and Heatran's moveset. Great job, Philip. It's nice to see people putting a lot of effort into their RMTs. I'm anxiously awaiting the time until this team gets archived.
  12. akarias

    akarias

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2009
    Messages:
    86
    The team looks incredible. Bulky setup sweepers under screens seems so underappreciated.

    I'm just curious though, what are your normal switch-ins to latias? 252hp variants and maybe even 4hp can normally start CM'ing up on suicune without LO (actually the #1 reason I run LO suicune). Do you just duke it out with CMrachi?
  13. Enygma

    Enygma

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2009
    Messages:
    372
    Jolly*FB*vs.*Standard*Forretress*=*143.5%*-*169.5%*Jolly*FB*vs.*RhysTalk*Forretress*=*127.7%*-*150.3%*Jolly*FB*vs.*Standard*Skarmory*=*67.7%*-*79.6%*Jolly*FB*vs.*Max*HP*&*Max*SpD*Skarmory*=*50.3%*-*59.3%


    With Jolly, you can still 2HKO SpDefensive Skarmory. With Naive, you lose out on a few SpD bulk. Although with Naive, you still have a decent chance against Suicune, with Jolly, you can use up that extra bulk to give yourself cushion against it.

    But then again, that's just me. I just reposted the calcs because you may have overlooked it. Did them on Metalkid because bored, no life.

    Metalkid sucks, but those other calcs don't have anything to post in EV's, and they ask for stats instead of EV.

    I tested this team on my Marriland Tourney match, and it works great (with my own tweaks of course). To those of you who have been losing using this team: it's not the team, it's you.

    Kudos again. Hopefully this goes into the archive... Even if it isn't metagame-changing :]
  14. Philip7086

    Philip7086 Myuu
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    According to Smogon's Damage Calculator, Jolly Fire Blast versus 252/252 Careful Skarm does: 45.5% - 53.9%. I guess Careful isn't as common as Impish, but I like to be safe anyways. Also, with Naive I get the 3HKO on standard Bronzongs, which, although also uncommon, is nice. Anyways, Jolly does have its merits, and I probably just got carried away when I didn't 2HKO that one Skarm. In fact, Jolly would probably make a difference more often than Naive would, so that is a solid suggestion. Thanks.
  15. remlabmez

    remlabmez @dacopboss
    is a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis a Past WCoP Winner

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    Don't mean to sound rude but swampert is a terrible lead (flame me all you want) and the whole point of this team is to be behind screens. LO starmie behind screens isnt as bulky nor has the capacity of denting teams like offensive cune, since it is probably the hardest pokemon to take down behind screens on this team. The whole mixrachi thing is a decent suggestion but he needs it to break stall and maybe wish pass if needed. I'm not quite sure how you are using the team because the issues you mentioned I had no trouble with, I already stated I only had trouble with LO sPA users.
  16. franky

    franky
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    Sup Phil,

    After laddering with this team a bit (only took one loss from an opposing dual screen team), I could say that this team is nearly flawless wth screens down. For the most part, I was was sweeping with Suicune since it really doesn't die under screens. The only thing I tweaked was Salamence's nature to Jolly. I recommend changing it for the purpose of setting up on unstabbed Ice Beam sufficiently better behind screens. This includes Vaporeon, Swampert, Suicune, etc. I could imagine that you could use a boost when needed to deliver the punshing blow on these bulky waters and the next pokemon. Overall, it allows Salamence to take unstabbed Ice Beams better. I don't think the loss of power is that signicant since Skarmory is often overwhelmed by the amount of special sweepers you have, and it will usually have a hard time squeezing in Spikes or phazing you with Whirlwind.

    I toyed around with Naughty nature after failing to OHKO Blissey with a blow (this is with Magma Storm damage) with Modest nature. I think the opponent was investing more Defense into Blissey. I think Naughty nature would secure yourself a dead Blissey or a really injured one since you really want it gone from the entire match, and it really holds back the entire team if its not gone. Extra power is better and dual screens often compensates for the loss of Special Defense stat.

    As for other options, you could always aim for the EV spread of 252 HP / 220 Def / 36 Spe on Jirachi. From my experience, it didn't feel as effective and dominant as the standard CM Wish set. Although you could outpace Base 90s and lower, Jirachi can't take physical wall that well (this is without screens). You can always look for a defensive one if you like. The Speed allows Jirachi to outpace Tyranitar. overall gl. (Lum Mence is broken)
  17. george182

    george182

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    My main nitpick is Jirachi, if your using a wish calm mind set then use a bold nature, with 252 hp, 220 defnece, 36 speed, (outspeeds common zapdos). This allows Jirachi to make use of wish with good defences and CM boosting sp.def. Bold also allows you to set up on weak phsyical attackers, taking attacks like EQ of a gyrados after a dragon dance, just shows that it will be easier to set up, and wish + calm mind can stall out S-tossers.

    Otherwise use subsitute if you have a timid nature, subsitute blocks thunderwave, knock off, leech seed, wil o wisp, trick, status hax, and critical hits. Bassically, use bold and wish, or timid and subsitute. Bold nature allows you to take a DD gyrados EQ and OHKO with thunderbolt (apparantly) and allows you to set up on weak physical attackers allot easier. Without the defensive bulk, then wish cannot be sued as much and subtitute is needed more to block thunderwave and allows you to beat S-tossers.

    Mence could have roost over fire blast, roost can help make use of screens, so a bulky mence coulde be better, especially with lum, but jsut a suggetsion.

    Other nitpicks, by using 216 speed on uxie you are actually speed tieing lead glsicor, as most gliscor have 216 speed ev's and jolly to outspeed jolly lucario. Thus I would suggest either 220 speed ev's to outspeed or, if you want to be slower then use a bold nature, as you said you hate speed ties. Modest latias, what does timid outspeed all apes are mixed and will have a lower speed nyway? Naughty salamence, more attack is better, Jolly outspeeds nothing bar scarf mismagius, scarf modest latias (I wouldnt take the risk of it being modest) and jolly speed ties Jirachi/flygon, as you said you hate speed ties and sticking with naughty would be better imo.

    DD tyranitar would be the main threat that I can see, he does sturggle to set up, but once he has, only suicune can take a hit, and she can't OHKO back. Scarf gengar over latias is your best option, but still has a risky 70% focus blast accuracy. Or Scarf flygon.

    Every poke has its own surprise value, and i only battled it with a test team, but it had control of the match and its a great team. The surprise value of heatran/suicune/salamence/latias makes it a great team, and should go far on the Shoddy ladder. I have nitpicked at it and I hope I helped.
  18. Sei

    Sei

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    That's nice and all, but Jirachi can simply pass the Wish around. If he ditches Fire Blast, then Salamence's sweep would become easily stopped by Skarmory. Plus it makes eliminating the steel type much easier since they are more likely to switch in after seeing no Life Orb recoil and assuming that it will be the set without Fire Blast. Also the style of this team is more of heavy offense minded than semi-stalling/slow bulky offense (slow as in taking longer to acquire a sweep) tactic that the DD-Roost Salamence would have provided.

    His Uxie is aiming at out speeding Roserade. And by such no coincidence, those other leads were also going with the same speed for the exact same reason. You can read the rest of his reasoning up at the top in the team role description.

    The speed tie issue should be viewed differently between the role of a lead and that of a sweeper. Having 50% chance of winning the speed tie would actually allow him to obtain the certain needed KO faster, which is better than having slightly more power in exchange of having to always end up going last.

    Having Latias really provides his team the much needed resistance that he's already mentioned. Spec Latias functions much better in that she can simply scout out for Scizor and Tyranitar with a Spec boosted Surf. Scarf Gengar on the other hand does not have the same kind of power nor does it provide the special defensive capacity that Latias boasts.

    However, you do bring a good focus on the threat of DD Tyranitar, and that's why he is utilizing the Dual Screen and by having Heatran with Modest nature and HP Grass (for Swampert primarily but works the same here); Jirachi having Flash Cannon, Suicune having more SpA, Latias having Spec Surf, and having Salamence to help lower Tyranitar's physical attack.
  19. Philip7086

    Philip7086 Myuu
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    That's really odd about Blissey. Was your SR spun away or something? Because after SR and Magma Storm, Explosion should be a guaranteed KO, according to the Smogon Damace Calc. Even without SR, you probably rolled a low min damage, because Magma Storm does a min of 23.2%, and Explosion does a min of 74.6% (Lefties is negated by Mama Storm's 6.25% per turn). This is versus 252/252 Bold Blissey. I guess you just don't have much luck :P

    I already explained in the OP why I prefer a faster CM Jirachi to the Bold one that everybody seems to like more. I personally have found the speed to be life-saving at times. Also, although you listed the spread for the "standard" Gliscor, you will find that most experienced players opt for max speed on their Gliscors, because getting that Taunt out before other Gliscors can Taunt or Toxic you is VERY important. If I'm playing your average player who goes strictly by standard sets, then yeah I'll only hit a speed tie, but that's preferable to always outpacing and having my switch-in get Taunted/Toxic'd. As for your other suggestions, I believe I already discussed why I decided not to go w/ some of the things you said (I tested bulky Mence for a while over my current set), and Skimbass also did a great job of explaining how the team works (I was actually quite surprised he seemed to know the intricacies of the team so well o_O).

    Thanks for your rates!
  20. Doomsday94

    Doomsday94

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    I must say, this team is really impressive. After trying it out on the ladder, I find that although I cannot get a clean sweep with just Suicune or any other single Pokemon, the way the team works as a whole is excellent, with the bulk of the team while behind screen is incredible (Jirachi taking 97% from a +3 Max Attack Gyarados with Earthquake anyone?)

    I found myself sacking players to get good switches was the best way to win, even though they took a lot of damage first. And to anyone complaining about Magma Storm Heatran, I must agree that it is beastly, with the ability to trap their main Heatran counter, then going boom being fun.

    As for those saying Gengar is an issue, it is rare for it to get a chance to attack without Screens up, as I found myself switching Uxie in on the blind switch, just to grab the advantage, before U-turning out.

    As for issues with the team, it seems that if Uxie does go down, the team becomes a little frail, but as long as it is played well, I see no problems as such.
  21. Xiang

    Xiang

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    Because Phil was so kind as to give me permission to ladder with this team, I feel obligated to post a few afterthoughts from laddering this weekend.

    Like RMJ said, strong life orb users like starmie and gengar are extremely menacing in the lategame or even in the early to midgame if uxie fails to set up against a taunt or trick lead. Jirachi cannot always be near full health to handle these threats at all times, and uxie is often too damaged late game to set up light screen before being ko'd when other members who could usually take a hit are weakened from switching in on resists and SR.

    Another very annoying set of pokemon are opposing CM users like CM jirachi or CM latias. The team's only surefire answer to either of these is tricking with latias and as we all know, tyranitar with pursuit is always a common switchin in this scenario.(or whatever else, it just has to take the trick after all). Therefore, team matchups like these often devolve into a coinflip scenario between this team's CM jirachi and opposing teams' CM latias or CM jirachi. CM latias with surf guarantees, all by itself, that the CM war is exactly what will happen, as neither heatran nor latias can reliably stop it, or stop it at all.

    Twave is also a major annoyance to this team. A team with bulky CMer(s) and a few twaves here and there quite often has a matchup advantage against this team.

    One of the lessons that can be learned from these few weaknesses is that this team should be played quite recklessly: Sac when you need to sac and always try to maintain pressure by setting up CM's and DD's at all times, as this prevents most of the issues noted above from being gamebreaking. MMPR has the best offensive synergy out of any RMT I've seen, and by that I mean that offensive sacrifices are often duly rewarded. Swampert came in on your DDmence? Sac it so that later CM jirachi can only really be stopped by trick users. Ttar came in on latias in the early game? Stay in and surf again more often than leaving and giving it a chance to DD or sub so that jirachi has a better chance of ohkoing it after a CM later on. Latias came in on heatran's magma storm and you don't know if it has surf? Dragon pulse/explode anyways so that your latias, suicune, and salamence have an easier time predicting and sweeping later on. (Life Orb Surf only averages a little over 80% w/o screen support iirc even latias does know it). I could go on and on but you get the picture. In most cases, keeping offensive pressure and certain team members unrevealed and healthy is the best way to play the team.

    In many ways, this team has the properties of heavy offense; it continuously puts pressure on the opponent so that by the time screens are down and he wants to retaliate, many of his key players are too weakened for him to stand a chance at winning the game. Team Mighty Morphin Power Rangers does all of this while taking advantage of the weaker, special defensive side of DPP, remaining bulky and fast, and wowing both the user and his opponent by being so damned innovative and sexy! So again, as I don't quite think it has been said enough: Great team Phil!
  22. Sprinkles

    Sprinkles

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    Hey Phil, one of my favorite RMTs here. I played this team quite a few times, but people don't play it that well I have to admit. It's obvious how successful it is for you judging by your record, but I think I see some threats with it. The one thing that hits this team harder than anything, imo, is any Choice Band dragon. I don't think Flygon can 2HKO Suicune, but a Dragonite with Extremespeed poses a big threat. It can do a shit load of damage to Latias, 2HKO Suicune, and can kill everything else. Yes, it requires amazing prediction (which I have so that's why I won =] ) so it shouldn't pose too much of a threat when this team is played by you. Anyway, just wanted to point that out, and btw this is excellent team!
  23. DJXO9

    DJXO9

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    Very good team, Philip7086; I'm very envious. One thing I wanted to point out is a weakness to RestTalk Curse Tyranitar. It can set up on Heatran, since it lacks Earth Power, even the Explosion does a decent amount. It can set up on Jirachi, since it is immune to Psychic, takes little damage from Thunderbolt, and even then, rest off paralysis, even though paralysis doesn't affect it much. It can also set up on Latias locked on either of the Dragon moves, or if it has tricked away the Specs. Salamence won't be around for long with Stealth Rock and Sandstorm, and won't be doing as much damage with Earthquake without the Life Orb. If you switched him in for the Intimidate, Tyranitar probably already has a Defense boost from Curse. The only true way to stop him is to Trick the Specs, but they might have already been tricked.

    I might have played it wrong, but it wiped the floor with me. But seeing as how that Tyranitar is so rare and the team is so synergized, if you will, there isn't much you can do. So this rate serves more as a warning and a congratulations on such a good team. That was actually for first loss with it too.
  24. Bogmire

    Bogmire

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    I'm curious, has this team ever been swept by sub HP ice raikou? with no priority and nothing to outspeed it, I can imagine you would be pretty much screwed if it set up on something like uxie, suicune, or jirachi. I suppose you could change flash cannon to psychic to give jirachi a chance at stalling it out, but then you'd be walled by tyranitar and latias. raikou is pretty rare though, so its probably not worth making moveset changes over.
  25. DJXO9

    DJXO9

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    Well, know it sorta makes sense about Tyranitar. I gave my Jirachi Psychic. Now that I think about it though, I think Flash Cannon is much more needed though, as with Psychic, your more susceptible to Tyranitar.

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