"That is so gay!"

[TAY]

I remember that people started saying "gay" around the time I was in 5th grade...and it caught on like wildfire. When I was in Eighth Grade I conditioned myself to not say "gay" because a pretty girl who I was courting at the time found it offensive, and since then I have probably only used it in actual speech about four times. On the internet I use it a lot more often because that's the culture, but I still limit myself. It isn't like I care if other people say it, either; I have known plenty of homosexual people who would say "gay" as a generic negative.

"Retarded" I have no problem with. People have been saying "dumb" since long before I was born, and that could be considered equally offensive. Still, I have taken great care to never say it in the presence of an actual retarded person. I think a small amount of self-restraint is healthy here.

 

[nardd]

Atlas you were most likely looking for "guardian"

And on subject I agree fully with Mormoopid and other users with the same answer to the OP. I use them occasionally with friends and stuff but I rarely use them in a public setting. I don't get offended by it and I don't think anyone should since they have become common phrases in the English slang.

 

[sumginazu]

I haven't used "gay" very often, but I use "retarded" alot. I really should stop...

Also, a lot of the people I know use "you jew!" as an insult. I just don't get it.

 

[Chill Murray]

I have a question for the people in this thread who have no problem using the word (BAN ME PLEASE) to describe someone they didn't like. Would it be acceptable if, instead of calling someone you didn't like a (BAN ME PLEASE), you called them a (BAN ME PLEASE)? A kike? Would that make a difference? Personally, I don't think it does, but people I've talked to seem to see things much differently.

 

[Morm]

Jew was a derogatory term to indicate cheapness, basically. Since the internet starting presenting with it's own culture in the last decade or so, the word jew spread along to essentially mean a generic negative, such as "man that guy totally jewed me with his garchomp". However, outside the internet, this term is still highly offensive (albeit still fairly common).

I guess it segways nicely into a discussion of the dichotomy between what is acceptable on the internet versus what is acceptable in person, but that's a whole other ball of wax.


Edit: (he posted just as I was writing)

Would it be acceptable if, instead of calling someone you didn't like a (BAN ME PLEASE), you called them a (BAN ME PLEASE)? A kike? Would that make a difference?

Yes it is acceptable. I use all those things as a generic negative, most any word I can get my hands on that is derogatory in the least has been transformed into a generic negative. I see no difference; I am not racist, I pride myself on being offensive to all colors and creeds.

 

[REQUIRED FIELD]

I have a question for the people in this thread who have no problem using the word (BAN ME PLEASE) to describe someone they didn't like. Would it be acceptable if, instead of calling someone you didn't like a (BAN ME PLEASE), you called them a (BAN ME PLEASE)? A kike? Would that make a difference? Personally, I don't think it does, but people I've talked to seem to see things much differently.

i call my friends (BAN ME PLEASE)s all the time

 

[Invective]

No. Both have become part of my vernacular and have thusly been seperated from their oringinal meaning and have become a 'generic bad term'. I've heard handicapped gentlemen use retarded in that way, same as homosexuals use the word gay to describe a generic negative.

Those words no longer mean, exclusively, their traditional meaning. It's how language evolves; without swings in vocabulary and meaning like this, language becomes stagnant and eventually becomes outpaced by another language and effectively becomes less and less common until it becomes a dead language like Latin.

yeah, basically this.

when i use the term "gay" i use it to mean lame, or something that can be ridiculed. if i ever want to call someone homosexual, i use the term homosexual. or heterosexually challenged if im bored.
and to me, retarded has basically replaced dumb, stupid, or i use it as an adjective, "thats retardedly stupid; thats retardedly gay" when i want to show emphasis. when i refer to people as mentally challenged, i use mentally challenged.
thats the way i talk, and the language has evolved so most people (read: teenagers) can understand what i mean. adults, on the other hand ususally take more offense to my remarks, so use the terms rather conservatively around older people.

EDIT:

Also, a lot of the people I know use "you jew!" as an insult. I just don't get it.

where im from, we dont specifically call people jews, but do use it as a verb, as in "i just got jewed" if you were at the mini mart and you were supposed to get 51 cents in change but the guy only gave you two quarters to save himself time.

I have a question for the people in this thread who have no problem using the word (BAN ME PLEASE) to describe someone they didn't like. Would it be acceptable if, instead of calling someone you didn't like a (BAN ME PLEASE), you called them a (BAN ME PLEASE)? A kike? Would that make a difference? Personally, I don't think it does, but people I've talked to seem to see things much differently.

yeah, i dont see why blacks should get special treatment and homosexuals and mentally challenged persons shouldnt. by allowing people to say gay/(BAN ME PLEASE) and retard, but not (BAN ME PLEASE) you are implying that blacks are inherently better than both homosexuals and mentally challenged persons because you can use the terms "gay/(BAN ME PLEASE) and retard" but cant use the word "(BAN ME PLEASE)".
so, yeah, i believe that one should be allowed to say either all or none. there can be no middle ground because whos to decide whats going too far, and whats not too far?
also, we used to use the word (BAN ME PLEASE) quite liberally in our band the past three years, until this year when three or four blacks joined our band. its quite hard to stop a habit instantly, and i have gotten into a couple awkward situations because of it.

 

[RobertM]

Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Shitting Dick Nipples

No I'm not going to stop saying this in public its part of my vernacular.

 

[Synre]

I basically agree with both of the below

I have a question for the people in this thread who have no problem using the word (BAN ME PLEASE) to describe someone they didn't like. Would it be acceptable if, instead of calling someone you didn't like a (BAN ME PLEASE), you called them a (BAN ME PLEASE)? A kike? Would that make a difference? Personally, I don't think it does, but people I've talked to seem to see things much differently.

[They] have thusly been seperated from their oringinal meaning and have become a 'generic bad term'. I've heard handicapped gentlemen use retarded in that way, same as homosexuals use the word gay to describe a generic negative.

Those words no longer mean, exclusively, their traditional meaning. It's how language evolves; without swings in vocabulary and meaning like this, language becomes stagnant and eventually becomes outpaced by another language and effectively becomes less and less common until it becomes a dead language like Latin.

This kind of reminds me of a conversation I had with Jump a while ago, and we had pretty similar opinions - I don't think either of us really like to see our respective slur bounced around but it'd be pretty silly to expect a large portion of the English speaking world to stop using them with them being as accepted as they are. I tend to roll my eyes when I hear people throw this type of slur but it'd be tough to be any madder than that - nine times out of ten people don't mean any offense anyway, it is pointless to get upset over word choice instead of intention. This type of thing doesn't really bother me, but I don't tend to do it myself mostly for the reason WER posted, and I'd also not really mind seeing it go away for the same reason. It's highly unlikely this will radically change anyone's life either way.

Dunno, in my high school it really doesn't appear to be that big of a deal.

I thought this was really telling, though, and its kind of what I thought of when I read Sikh Assassin and Trax's posts in particular. Your mindsets and attitudes fit nicely into what I think many of us think of as "high school" or to be more precise "childish," good luck in life if you plan on behaving in a way that reflects those attitudes. That mystical "professional world" that people tend to mention doesn't often react too kindly to people who apparently are too good to respect those around them, as I'm sure you'll find out. You might want to grow up.

Coincidently, this isn't Firebot, and a couple posters (Sikh Assassin, Storm FTW, REQUIRED FIELD) might want to remember that this is a no flame zone and that there is a level of quality required of posts here.

 

[gorm]

to be honest, its just a word. if it offends people because its used to degrade and implies a negative tone towards gay people.. then the more we realize that they arent negative, the more irrelevant the word becomes.

it has a "new meaning" as an insult/negative word that really has nothing to do with gay people and either we will stamp it out due to politically correct/not hurting peoples feelings (which i feel is not really addressing the more important issue of WHY people think gays are negative), or we will accept that it's "just a word"

 

[cim]

I never call things gay simply because the town I grew up in used gay as an insult quite frequently. And almost everyone used it to defame gay people in the process by associating them with "stupid". They actually do the same thing with "jew" and occasionally "(BAN ME PLEASE)" there too. It's quite sad, really.

If we lived in an ideal society where everyone using gay meant them no offense, then sure it's okay.

 

[MNL]

I say gay since most gays are well (BAN ME PLEASE)s and act like ones too, they can be used to be an insult as the majority of them are insulting most religions. Of course, I'm not making fun of jrrrrrrrr or other gay users here since well you guys don't act like (BAN ME PLEASE)s and just keep fucking announcing it and showing it to people and using this as an excuse or interference. It is OK to be gay, but why the hell would you publicly keep showing it?

Retarded used as an insult is just moronic and idiotic.

wow you are a self centered piece of shit. for one moment try to consider all of the straight people that push their sexuality on gay people. announcing your sexuality is not a crime; what is a crime is hating people based on the way they naturally feel because of their genes.

 

[Firestorm]

I don't use the word gay and I find that it sounds really awkward in sentences where it's used now. Most of the people I know just don't use it or use it very seldomly. I do think it's slightly offensive and is something I associate with younger people around ages 12 to 14.

I do however use "That's retarded" quite a bit and should probably stop. I have a friend who keeps giving me mean looks when I use it :( The reason I still use it is probably because I think of it as a more extreme version of the word "stupid" whereas for gay is just completely nonsensical in the same context.

 

[X-Act]

Well, how about the word 'gay' actually means 'happy'? Or maybe used to mean happy.

It's like that man who I don't remember his name wanted to coin the word 'bright' to mean 'atheist' for those atheists who feel 'closeted' because of their atheism. 'Gay' was basically also coined for the same reason.

The difference is that 'gay' caught on, and 'bright' did not.

 

[Hipmonlee]

Does anyone remember that post that one guy made about profanity, and about how when he is annoyed at his Mother he would say "f that" to precisely indicate his exact level of frustration? I think that sort of has relevance here.

The thing that worries me is the implication to young gay kids that being gay is something that is negative. Well duh. But I think in this scenario it is even worse than "(BAN ME PLEASE)". Because if you are black, there is not even the slightest pretence of there being any choice about the matter. You are black and your family is black (unless you were adopted, but in that case obviously your family arent bigoted against blacks) and if someone hates blacks well fuck them.

But if you are gay, then your family isnt gay, you can pretend to not be gay, or you can fight it and try and force yourself to be straight, or you can join the priesthood or something.. You could well be be a gay person who grows up in a family that hates gays. For society to confirm this attitude, it must be hard for people.

But I think in the defence of these terms, there is a point where these insults are almost ironic in useage. That definitely is the case with (BAN ME PLEASE) where I see it used. Nobody ever actually refers to someone as a (BAN ME PLEASE) except for comedic value, where the comedic effect comes from the ridiculousness of calling someone a (BAN ME PLEASE). I dunno if that partially comes from living in New Zealand where there arent very many (BAN ME PLEASE)s here, but I dont think so. I think here people are even more sensitive to terms like (BAN ME PLEASE), because they havent ever met any black people to tell them that its ok..

With gay, I use it as pretty much the mildest possible derogatory term. But it has problems because no matter how tolerant or un-anti-homosexual we are it is still objectionable for me as a heterosexual to be described as a homosexual, because if women think I am gay then they probably wont want to have sex with me. Which is a bad outcome as far as I am concerned. Again that sort of reduces the impact of the insult.

Also if I were gay, I would basically describe every action I would ever do as being gay: "Oh breakfast is soooo gay" "drinking beer is for (BAN ME PLEASE)" that sort of thing. I would imagine it would be really fun..

Retarded I dont think is a problem because handicapped people arent called retards any more. It is essentially an archaic term..

Have a nice day.

 

[Mekkah]

I use both terms liberally whenever I want, because I don't mean them offensively. Both gay people and retarded people are awesome and should be accepted as such. I'm not actually calling you mentally inept or homosexual.

Obviously I lay it off near older people, young kids, parents, actual retards or homosexual people of who I know they don't like hearing those words used as such. I'm sure they get enough shit from people who do attach negativities to those words.

there is not even the slightest pretence of there being any choice about the matter

Homosexuality is, as far as I know, genetically applied as well. It's just that there's some people who believe it is a choice, and homosexuals who try not to be homosexual. Both of those are inherently wrong though.

 

[jrrrrrrr]

If gay people can't handle the heat, they can get out of the kitchen. I'm not the kind of person who censors himself for others feelings.

That was a pretty idiotic post, you might as well just replace it with a huge sign that says "<---- IGNORANT".

There's a difference between censoring yourself and not blatantly being an asshole to everyone around you. When people get in trouble, its because they crossed that line. Maybe when you grow up and get out of middle school you will understand that people aren't impressed with such flagrant displays of intolerance and disrespect. Well, successful people anyways.

I say gay since most gays are well (BAN ME PLEASE)s and act like ones too, they can be used to be an insult as the majority of them are insulting most religions. Of course, I'm not making fun of jrrrrrrrr or other gay users here since well you guys don't act like (BAN ME PLEASE)s and just keep fucking announcing it and showing it to people and using this as an excuse or interference. It is OK to be gay, but why the hell would you publicly keep showing it?

Heteroes have been forcing their sexuality on everyone for much longer than homosexuality has been classified as not a disease. It's OK to be straight, but why the hell would you keep publicly showing it?

Hip hit the nail on the head. It's not like calling someone a (BAN ME PLEASE). As a kid growing up, hearing people calling bad things "gay" was pretty confusing around the time when I started realizing that I was...different. I felt like I had a disease, that nobody would want to talk to me if they found out etc, so I kept it in for a really long time (and its one of only a couple of regrets I have in my life =\). It's not like I could have been forced by my peers into hiding my blackness and had that traumatize me for years.

It's not so much that saying "gay" hurts homos, it just puts the gay rights movement back a few steps. It might not hurt, but it certainly isn't helping.

Someone made a comment about "get thicker skin!", I don't think thats really the problem anymore. I hear the word (BAN ME PLEASE) at least 20 times every day and it doesnt bother me...it gets more of a *sigh* nowadays. People don't understand the fear that comes with being gay, and that is why its still made fun of. Straight guys just see it as a choice since they couldnt possibly understand it and tend to act with hostility, parents tend to see it as their kids failing to meet their expectations...at least thats what my parents said before they kicked me out of the house after I came out to them. It's more of a lack of understanding than the presense of hatred.

And to try to prove my point, there's a senator from Oklahoma named Tom Coburn, who was recently quoted saying:

"The gay community has infiltrated the very centers of power in every area across this country, and they wield extreme power... That agenda is the greatest threat to our freedom that we face today. Why do you think we see the rationalization for abortion and multiple sexual partners? That's a gay agenda"

Why do you THINK homos make a big deal out of things like this? Why do you think we want to get the word out? lol

 

[Bourbon]

right on J7r, I applaud you for standing up for what you believe in.

 

[The.Lost.Hylian]

(BAN ME PLEASE) (BAN ME PLEASE) honkey chink spic queer cracker idiot retard bitch cunt etc etc etc

they are just words, get over it

To expand on a quote I heard before...

I am not racist or sexist, I hate everyone equally.

Really I don't, but the quote fit.

 

[Bourbon]

just because you CAN say something doesn't mean you should.

 

[The.Lost.Hylian]

From your comments in the other thread, I would say the same to you.

Touche.

On another note, if we quit having bitch fits about words we hear and quit giving them so much power, then maybe we wouldn't have so many feelings getting hurt.

Long story short, I want to live in a world where the color of my skin does not determine what my appropriate vocabulary is.

 

[mutant_ally]

Yes, its wrong to use gay and retarded as derogative terms in any sense imo.
I get what people say in that its been vernacularised but that means shit when using the terms, as at their core they reinforce negative stereotypes that make everything harder for anyone who is gay or retarded.

If i ever catch myself saying something is gay or retarded, i feel like shit because it happens that thats how it feels to hear it out of other peoples mouths. especially if you're closeted.

It angers me to no end that people say something homophobic, but add in 'oh im not homophobic'/'i have nothing against gays'. Or any validating clause, like that post by sikh assassin ,

I say gay since most gays are well (BAN ME PLEASE)s and act like ones too, they can be used to be an insult as the majority of them are insulting most religions. Of course, I'm not making fun of jrrrrrrrr or other gay users here since well you guys don't act like (BAN ME PLEASE)s and just keep fucking announcing it and showing it to people and using this as an excuse or interference. It is OK to be gay, but why the hell would you publicly keep showing it?

saying that does not, in any way, validate that ignorant opinion.

the last sentence/question.... its painful to KNOW that that kind of ignorance is peddled with such conviction despite the obvious double standard that it implies of being gay/straight. it reinforces that even though gay and retarded become devoid of actual meaning in some uses, merely using them means that the archaic, outdated and ignorant definition is drawn upon to indicate something is negative

since most people who are saying its ok to use it because its become part of the norm seem to also be saying that they dont use them around certain individuals, highlight that they know the implications are felt despite what the user means

like some have said understanding that words take on different meanings over time is a big part of this, but when those same words still are so strongly attached to the negative base - it means using them is only a few steps away from their 'original' meaning. language is too strong to ......'quit giving [words] so much power'... so we should identify where words are fucking some over others, and fix it - or at least stop adding to the problem

being gay or retarded is not a choice, using those terms to continually describe something or someone leads to things such as the Oklahoma senator Coburns comments, or Prop 8, or Submission 23a right here in Australia [which is one of the most fucked up modern documents ever - in o so many ways]. seems harmless but it works at fucking up 'equality'

 

[The.Lost.Hylian]

To be gay is not wrong. Saying "that's gay" is not wrong either. It's meaning shouldn't even be relevant when you hear "that's gay" because I'm quite sure the majority of the people who say things such as "that's gay" don't consciously think "HOMOSEXUAL". It's just a term used for something considered unliked. If anyone takes offense to "that's gay", I'm sorry, you're a little too sensitive.

 

[jumpluff]

It angers me to no end that people say something homophobic, but add in 'oh im not homophobic'/'i have nothing against gays'. Or any validating clause, like that post by sikh assassin

I wish people would man up and be honest about their beliefs, myself. I find the most insulting thing about people is not them saying 'x is gay', which only bothers me if the person really believes that's an insult and isn't just 'poking fun', so to speak, but that they'll deny they're homophobes then say something so blatantly homophobic it's obscene. If they really are in that great denial then I am in despair.

I don't take offence to it, in short, unless there is genuinely hateful intent in the use of the word 'gay'. I actually have seen more straight people get outraged than gay people, actually.

Anyway. Sikh Assassin, that was quite frankly a terrible post. How can you say anything and then try to save face? It's pretty transparent.

I say gay since most gays are well (BAN ME PLEASE)s and act like ones too

You clearly do not know very many gay people. Stop generalising people because of a bunch of people who 'flaunt' it. Man, I hate heteros. I hate when they kiss on the street or worse then they get married and say on TV that they're so happy. Don't you find it sickening? They talk about their sex lives and I'm all, Ew, I don't want to hear about cock. That is just disgusting. I hate when my friends think a guy is attractive. I hate hearing songs that are clearly heterosexually provocative. Stop offending me and forcing your opposing sexuality onto me!

 

[mutant_ally]

like my friend was saying the other day, if someone starts a sentence with 'No offence, but..', they should just shut the fuck up and evaluate what they are gonna say.

@kholdstaire
being sensitive is sorta besides the point. when using ....socially and culturally loaded terms like gay and retarded then meaning doesn't matter. maybe this means i'm just arguing a different side of vernacularisation... but whatever - where gay, as a construct means homosexual, and that is then taken as its representation of something negative or, 'something considered unliked', then that's the basis in which the new meaning of gay is being used. no matter how or who uses the 'new' 'gay', the base meaning overrides the inflected meaning of lame and other derogative niceties.
maybe i'm just rambling now, points are hidden in the mess.