The A Team! (Peaked at 1358, big changes!)

scar1et

The peak of 1358 is relatively low, but I'm confident that a more skilled and experienced player could take this team even higher!

Changelog:
dual chop > facade on Haxorus
slight EV change on Scizor
switched to an offensive EV set on Donphan
added stone edge option on infernape
Donphan over Areodactyl for a lead
Latios over Azelf for a special attacker
Ferrothorn over Chansey for a supporter
Changes in red.


I've been working on this team for quite a long time and finally settled on something that works quite well. My strategy in the beggining of the match is to remove the opposing rapid spinner, and then have Donphan and/or Ferrothorn set up their hazzards to wear down the enemy team. Mid game I work towards removing the enemy team's steel pokemon so that the dragons can sweep, that job is covered by Infernape very easily. In the endgame, after the steels have been removed, Haxorus and Latios can fire off their mighty dragon STABs unhindered and easily sweep the enemy team. If needed, Scizor and to a lesser extent Infernape, can pull off a sweep with powerfull priority and simple prediction.

EV spread is: HP/Att/Def/SpA/SpDef/Spe
If you see any weaknesses, problem pokes, or think something should be changed, please let me know. All input is very much appreciated!






Donphan

lead/supporter.
adamant, sturdy, leftovers
EV: 252/248/0/0/0/8
stealth rock
rapid spin
earthquake
ice shard​

This is what I will lead with most of the time. After setting up rocks, I will either leave him in to do large amounts of damage and then die like a traditional suicide lead, or (usually) switch him out for use as a rapid spinner later. Ice shard is very helpful for countering offensive juggernauts such as salamence, dragonite, gliscor, and others. Originally this was an Areodactyl, but I decided to swap that out for Donphan because of Donphan's much larger offensive presence, greater bulk, and rapid spin.
(Thanks to highjumpwin for suggesting Donphan, and thanks to XcRunner for the set!)




Ferrothorn

supporter
relaxed, iron barbs, rocky helmet
EV: 252/0/88/0/168/0
spikes
power whip
gyro ball
thunder wave​

Ferrothorn here is my bulkiest pokemon, and functions as a fantastic support pokemon. I went with rocky helmet over leftovers because of how well it works with iron barbs. And it's incredibly funny to watch a dragon locked into outrage kill itself by being forced to whack Ferrothorn repeatedly, while doing reletivley no damage! Spikes are awesome, and will rack up tons of damage once set up two or three times. Power whip is Ferrothorn's strongest attack, and although its accuracy can be a letdown at times, it destroys the mobs of bulky waters that plauge the metagame. Gyro ball is an alternative STAB move for anything that resits power whip, and has perfect accuracy. Thunder wave is for anything that needs to be slowed down, completely neutering speedy threats and opens the way for my sweepers to sweep. While it would seem to have bad synergy with gyro ball, Ferrothorn doesn't do much damage anyway, and can still attack with power whip if he really needs to.




Scizor

revenge kiler / scout
adamant, technician, choice band
EV: 248/252/8/0/0/0
bullet punch
U-turn
superpower
pursuit​

King of the metagame, truly the best of the best. Functions as a fantastic revenge killer/scout/trapper, which is exactly what this team needed. Has great synergy with Infernape, Haxorus, and Latios.




Infernape

mixed sweeper
hasty, iron fist, life orb
EV: 0/252/0/4/0/252
close combat
overheat
U-turn
mach punch / stone edge​

Here we have the famous wallbreaker infernape. He helps immensely with picking apart stall teams, and counters steel types and common pokemon such as Tyranitar very well. I chose iron fist over blaze to boost the power of mach punch because blaze will almost NEVER be activated since Infernape is so incredibly frail, especially after a defense drop from close combat. Close combat and overheat are the standard on wallbreaker Infernape, while U-turn is there for scouting and switching out of unfavorable matchups. Mach punch is for helpful priority, and is surprisingly powerful after boosts from STAB, iron fist, and Infernape's naturally high attack stat. Stone edge was also suggested here by DTzz for Volcarona coverage.




Haxorus

physical sweeper
adamant, mold breaker, choice scarf
EV: 4/252/0/0/0/252
outrage
earthquake
brick break
dual chop​

Haxorus is a beast, plain and simple. I went with a choice scarf over a choice band because I find his speed to be a major issue. Besides, he still OHKO's or 2HKO's everything but the bulkiest pokemon even without a band, due to his monstorus attack stat. Earthquake is there to hit the pesky steel types that resist outrage, and brick break is for anything that resists outrage and earthquake(ferrothorn). Dual chop is there to break substitutes, and as an alternative STAB move if I need to attack without being locked into outrage.




Latios

special sweeper
modest, levitate, choice scarf
EV: 4/0/0/252/0/252
draco meteor
ice beam
surf
hidden power [fire]​

I decided to put in Latios over Azelf because of his superior power without the need to setup. I went with a modest nature over timid because with a choice scarf on he is lightning quick already, and the extra power that modest provides is very helpful. Draco meteor is the main STAB move here, and absolutely MURDERS everything that doesn't resist it. Ice beam might seem strange on a pokemon like Latios, but it helps greatly with huge threats like Gliscor and Salamence. Surf smacks Heatran in the nose, and is there to help with the steel types that resist the other moves in the set. And lastly, hidden power fire is to cover the multitude of pokemon that are weak to it, such as the steel bugs and Ferrothorn.
 

SharpEyes

Some pics would be awesome. but as for rating i would suggest psyshock over psychic on azelf..also signal beam is kind of pointless and can easily be filled by a better move like thunderbolt or hiddenpower - grass or ice. also if speed is an issue on haxorus try dragon dance set? With taunt so skarm and ferro dont ruin your day, if you prefer scarfer dont use facade as there are better moves like x-scissor ,plain and simple and no haxorus wants to be status'd ever. I wont tell you not to use a suicide lead,bcuz you said you worked on this team for a while and seem content. just some things to consider
 

XcRunner

Seconding that pics would be great. They really make the rmt more appealing and more people are willing to help when they see you've put effort in.
Just some small changes, but use Double Chop or Dual Chop (I forgot what it's called) over Facade on Haxorus. Facade doesn't help at all, and now you can break subs.
Also, run 248 hp/252 att/8 spe on Scizor. It's the standard choice band set.
Hope this helped some
 

highjumpwin

your team seems to look like it has problems with water types. You have hax and scizor both doing almost the same thing so id switch one for something like ferrothorn. If you really want a suicide lead go with donphan since it has leftovers so not all fake outs will break sturdy plus the spinning.
 
Tressed

Tressed

XcRunner said:
Just some small changes, but use Double Chop or Dual Chop (I forgot what it's called) over Facade on Haxorus. Facade doesn't help at all, and now you can break subs.
Also, run 248 hp/252 att/8 spe on Scizor. It's the standard choice band set.
Hope this helped some
Click to expand...
Backing up the use of Dual Chop here. Its a good move for breaking subs.
However, I don't find the use of the speed EVs on Scizor. See, if you run speed on Scizor, it will outspeed or speed tie with other Scizor running the same spread. If I remember correctly, Choice Band Superpower from another Scizor will not KO, however, the Scizor that goes last will always KO, due to the defence drop from Superpower. I suggest keeping your current spread, but put the speed EVs into bulk. This will guarrantee that you will go last, and you can them eliminate any opposing Scizor that run speed.
 

scar1et

@SharpEyes
My reasoning behind using psychic over psyshock on azelf is because I can already get past special walls with scizor and haxorus, and my only other special attacker I have is overheat on Infernape, so taking away my strongest special attack would make me significantly weaker to physical walls. I'll swap signal beam for thunderbolt to cover the water weakness that highjumpwin highlighted. If I was going to use dragon dance, why not just switch to dragonite? Also I just realized that I've got heal bell on chansey for if haxorus gets burned, so facade is really unnecessary, so I'll change that to dual chop like XcRunner mentioned so I can beat subs. Also, I'm new here, so I don't know how to add pictures to my post. D:

@XcRunner
How do picture? I'll change facade for dual chop because I've got heal bell on chansey for status. I decided on a slightly different EV spread for scizor, see BlackLight's post.

@highjumpwin
I've never really seen a weakness to water types while playing the team, but I'm going to switch signal beam out for thunderbolt on azelf, to try to cover that. And a donphan lead sounds like a REALLY good idea, could you(anybody?) please suggest a set for me?

@BlackLight
That makes a TON of sense, I never thought of it that way before! I'll throw the leftover EVs into defense instead.



THANKS!!!
 

SharpEyes

About the dragondance set, haxorus and dnite are both completely different.Each having their own merits as to why they are good and such. just saying dd hax lets you accomplish speed without the gravity of choice also makes you stronger. but yes dual chop is much beter than facade.
 

XcRunner

A good Donphan set would be this
Donphan@leftovers
Impish
-Stealth Rock
-Earthquake
-Ice Shard
-Rapid spin
252 hp/4 att/252 def

Pics are like this
 

scar1et

Okay, now we've got pictures! :D

@sharpeyes
The more I think about it, the more I think that DD'nite might be a better fit for this team than haxorus is. I don't really think that haxorus has the bulk to setup dragon dance reliably, which is why I went with the scarf. DD'nite also adds some much needed bulk to the team, and adds another ground immunity, with the bonus of being able to switch moves. What do you(everybody) think about that?

@XcRunner
I'll add that donphan into the OP right now. (Isn't that just the standard defensive set?) And now I'm wondering if he's the best pokemon to lead with. I like the idea of keeping him tucked away for use as a physical defensive buffer, but then who would I lead with? Also, thanks for telling me the pictures code, now I feel hella dumb. :P
 
_AlexiS_

_AlexiS_

I personally don't like Donphan as Spinner...
I find this team too weak to many People, one over all : Cloyster which setup easily on Donphan or Blissey (Cloyster+LumBerry, not so rare...) !
 

SharpEyes

scar1et said:
Okay, now we've got pictures! :D

@sharpeyes
The more I think about it, the more I think that DD'nite might be a better fit for this team than haxorus is. I don't really think that haxorus has the bulk to setup dragon dance reliably, which is why I went with the scarf. DD'nite also adds some much needed bulk to the team, and adds another ground immunity, with the bonus of being able to switch moves. What do you(everybody) think about that?

@XcRunner
I'll add that donphan into the OP right now. (Isn't that just the standard defensive set?) And now I'm wondering if he's the best pokemon to lead with. I like the idea of keeping him tucked away for use as a physical defensive buffer, but then who would I lead with? Also, thanks for telling me the pictures code, now I feel hella dumb. :P
Click to expand...
Well dnite can set up dds reliably also has great synergy with scizor and is an awesome check to sun teams. so yeah he fits well. however my favourite hax set is double dance because it has so few safe switch ins.And with infernape to break down skarmory and ferro hax could easily have a hayday. I would test if i were you.
 

Dragontongue195040

I would suggest life orb scizor over banded (you can use the same EV's; for scizor it really doesn't matter, especially because it is a scout.) then, replace superpower with swords dance. That way, you hit harder, and you din't get restricted.
Be wary of magnezones- if you see one in team preview, uturn everything until haxorus or azelf or infernape takes care of it.
Hope this helped!
 

scar1et

@alexiS
I don't see a problem with donphan, in fact I quite like him. Of course I've only tested him in a couple of games. Cloyster is not an issue. After the defense drop, cloyster gets MURDERED by scizor, and infernape's mach punch. But what were some of the other specific pokemon you mentioned that you think counter the team?

@SharpEyes
Like I said, I don't really like the idea of having a setup haxorus because he's so fragile. Who do you think would be a better fit to the rest of the team, the current haxorus set, or a DDnite?

@Dragontounge
I've tried swords dance scizor before, but I prefer him to be banded so I can switch in and destroy things immediately, without the need for setup. Also, thanks for the tip with magnezone.


Thanks for the input everybody!
 
_AlexiS_

_AlexiS_

The Sash one Cloyster could be a trouble, anyway, if it isn't a problem, better, I'm happy for you, I thought that, but without testing, sometimes its difficult to find the real problems of a Team ^^
 

scar1et

Triple bump.
I would really like to know what the community thinks about switching the current haxorus out for DDnite...?
 
BTzz

BTzz

spams overhand rights
is a Contributor Alumnus
Hey scar1et, cool team! Swords Dance Lucario is a huge threat to your team once it sets up on Choice-locked Scizor or Chansey. From there Donphan will be OHKOed with Ice with a little prior damage and it can bypass your team's speed with Extremespeed while resisting Bullet Punch. To fix this I suggest using Skarmory over Donphan. Skarmory is an excellent check to Lucario along with a myriad of physical threats, meaning you won't have to sac stuff as often to deal with set-up sweepers. Skarmory also provides Spikes which will make your team function much more smoothly as they'll apply pressure on your opponent's team while you u-turn.

You lose Donphan's priority Ice Shard, but Skarmory does a fine job of checking Landorus and Dragonite (your Haxorus can also check Dragonite). Since you have Wish support, Skarmory won't really need the extra recovery from Leftovers so for Skarmory's item I suggest Rocky Helmet to deal with opposing Scizor. Without Donphan you lose Rapid Spin support, but I don't think you need it as your team isn't really weak to them. You also have Chansey to supply your team with Wishes in case they happen to get worn down by hazrads. You also lose Stealth Rock, but you can simply move them to Chansey over Heal Bell as your team isn't particularly prone to status. Now I suggest using Stone Edge over Mach Punch on Infernape. Mach Punch is only useful for Terrakio and Lucario who you can deal with Skarmory (or Scizor in Terrakion's case). Stone Edge allows Infernape to efficiently KO Volcarona after Chansey has paralyzed it.

Skarmory | Sturdy | Rocky Helmet
Impish | 224 HP / 252 Def / 32 Spe
Brave Bird | Spikes | Whirlwind | Roost

Good luck with your team!
 

scar1et

Well after some very extensive testing with this team, I have made some serious changes! I've revised the OP to include all of my changes and new thoughts. If you've looked through this team before, I highly encourage you to at least skim through it again.

@BTzz
Yeah, of the few lucario's I've fought, when they get set up it's a big issue. Skarmory sounds like a good idea, but with the recent changes I've made, that would put 3 fire weaknesses on the team, and a big weakness to magnezone. Maybe switch out ferrothorn? But then I'm weak to water types again... I'll test with skarmory instead of ferrothorn and see how that works out.
I personally prefer the priority of mach punch, but you do have a point, stone edge totally works, I'll slash it onto the OP.
 

XcRunner

Hey again. One thing that I don't fully understand is the reason why you have 2 choice scarfed dragons and you have ferro spreading paralysis. It just seems like you should make one of them have a different item. You could go with CB Haxorus and just go for raw power and have Infernape/Latios clean up w/ mach punch and choice scarf moves, or you could switch out your Latios' item for an expert belt and fake the choice allowing for Haxorus to do an easy job cleaning up with the scarf. I personally would go with Expert Belt Latios and keep Haxorus scarfed because Latios and Infernape together can do a heck of a job weakening opponents up, allowing for Haxorus to do an easy clean up job with Outrage. Good to see the team's getting up to higher peaks and good luck!
 

Dark Nikuman

Have you tryed trick>ice beam on latios? Ice beam is useless, for gliscor and salamence you have surf and draco meteor, and if you want, put the timid nature, the power of the modest isn't very far from the timid...

DDnite can be interesting on haxorus :D
 

scar1et

Okay, so I've tried skarmory over ferrothorn, and while skarm helped with just about any physical threat, I really had no solid answer to any water pokemon, so I'm going to keep ferrothorn, at least for now.

@XcRunner
I've actually tried switching up haxorus and latios items, and while it seems to be a good idea it just doesn't work as well as the scarves. A scarf allows me to outrun and kill just about everything, which works fine since both poke's are powerful enough even without power boosting items. It does indeed look like a good idea on paper, but it just doesn't work as well as the scarves in practice. (Thanks for the donphan set, that thing does work!)

@Dark Nikuman
You've got a really good point. Most of the threats that I was trying to cover hit with ice beam are already covered by my other moves. I'll edit trick over ice beam into the OP when I get home.



Thank you, everybody, all of this input is really helping me to improve my team, and my competitive abilities!
 
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